Champions: [x3] gain back on stat losses to highest level like dying.

[Deathangel 427]

Title says it. Make champing less painful (still painful, but more bearable).

DA

 

edit more detailed suggestion: 2018 December 06

 

[13:00:11] <Deathangel> champions gaining skill ticks for their boosted skills (characteristics, channeling, exorcism) should receive gains at their (skill - 5) until dechamp and receive [x3] when they dechamp until (skill+1) after dechamping.

 

[13:00:49] <Deathangel> for channeling,exorcism tho it would be gains based on (skill-50) since those get a 50+ boost and no [x3] regain after dechamp

Edited December 6, 2018 by Deathangel
more detailed suggestion

[Roccandil 959]

I don't like champs, as a rule, but this makes sense (assuming you mean x3 on the 1 point of overall stat losses).

[Deathangel 427]

right. so you lose 1 stam, 1 strength, 1 control and lets say you are at 40 (45 with champ temporary +5) in all of those - after you dechamp you are now 39 in all of those. i propose a [x3] like all other types of skill loss to help you get back to 40.

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

1 in each characteristic isn't really that much, considering you've had 6 months that you could imp and gain characteristics in.

[Roccandil 959]

It just fits how Wurm works elsewhere. Champs feel like a clunky, bolted-on mechanic to me: this is actually a suggestion in the other direction.

[Deathangel 427]

Yes, a champ can do that 1 point grind, but do you want your champion grinding or fighting?

 

If it takes 24hr SB to regain 1 point in a body stat, then with this change it would take 8 hr SB to regain that same point. still gotta work for it - there would still be sacrifice but i think it would make it more easy for ppl to champ and have less remorse when dying as champ.

 

that's one thought to it, also meshes better with other skill loss mechanics

 

DA

Edited November 3, 2018 by Deathangel

[Wargasm 1,927]

+1 to the idea.  This would make it more feasible for a high body str toon to sacrifice body stats for a chance to have a little fun.  (And by "high" I mean 80+ body str).

 

As a reminder DA, you lose the body stats whether or not you die.  At the end of 6 months, you still lose the point(s).

[Rakki 429]

Just remove champs

[Sn00 1,005]

+1

[boilingfort 147]

+1

[Deathangel 427]

More feedback? Pretty simple change here but wouldn't want it considered by devs without more support.

DA

[Deathangel 427]

So the actual formula would be x3 skillgain until you reach ([highest stat level as champ] - 5) for each characteristic.

 

Thus if you had 23 body strength prior to champion, you would have 28 (23+5 temp buff) body strength while champion. Let's say you don't die 3 times and last all 6 months, you end your champ hood at 30 body strength. You would dechamp to 24 strength and have the x3 skillgain until (30-5) 25 body strength. This would at least help get some of the gains while being a champ accounted for, but not account for the slowing of skillgain you experience at 28 compared to 23 strength. You would still miss out on some gains since you grinded at a higher skill level while champ, but the recovery would be a big improvement over the current penalties.

DA

[Deathangel 427]

More detailed suggestion: 2018 December 06

 

[13:00:11] <Deathangel> champions gaining skill ticks for their boosted skills (characteristics, channeling, exorcism) should receive gains at their (skill - 5) until dechamp and receive [x3] when they dechamp until (skill+1) after dechamping.

 

[13:00:49] <Deathangel> for channeling,exorcism tho it would be gains based on (skill-50) since those get a 50+ boost and no [x3] regain after dechamp

 

Solves the questionable grinding as champion and makes your gains more normal once you dechamp. Also minimizes the setback of dechamping.

DA

[Jaz 2,665]

Very big +1! Would make sense to follow the same principles as skill lost otherwise.

[SmeJack 5,798]

Its the cost of pushing a button for extra dr and a crafting priest, its not huge but a cost none the less and doesnt need to be made smaller.

[Deathangel 427]

2 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Its the cost of pushing a button for extra dr and a crafting priest, its not huge but a cost none the less and doesnt need to be made smaller.

Its also the reason most people above 50 strength (especially 60 strength) stop champing. Again, there would still be a penalty (a step backwards requiring regrind) but it would make it more bearable for said accounts. People would still have to weigh the costs of champhood (its a few days of constant grinding, even with proposed change). If you think it makes champing too easy, I understand, but that's easy to say when you have no interest in PvP right now or champing.

DA

[SmeJack 5,798]

Probably just as easy as assuming i have no interest

[Deathangel 427]

2 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Probably just as easy as assuming i have no interest

I assume so because I don't know who you are ingame or at least haven't seen you ingame yet, and I'm very active on Chaos pvp since June 2018 this time. But it is not my place to discredit your feedback based on my perception of your PvP involvement. I apologize, I just got a bit bothered when someone said no to my proposed champ tweak without seeming to be involved in champhood/PvP recently. I took a 20 month ingame break, myself.

DA

[Mclavin 3,704]

I'm going to - 1. You can make back the point with work but the benefit should match that of the punishment.

 

This punishment is fine and the reward is great.

 

 If I had my way we'd be back to perms death champs.

 

 

[Wargasm 1,927]

Well, it's a good thing that things aren't your way.  Not everybody has shared bicycle accounts to champ and share out hashes to 10+ people.

 

As a reminder, given the 3 champ per kingdom restriction, I don't think this is a game breaking change.

[Deathangel 427]

As it is in each kingdom there are a limited (3) number of champions at any time. There are a handful of people that don't want to champ because of the inevitable stat loss at high levels. There are also those that do champ but are too afraid to go into risky situations (generate more interesting pvp) while champ, lest they lose their lives too early and take a stat loss in less than 6 months.

 

If you made the stat loss less punishing (make it 3x less painful to regain and make your gains while being champ undiminished by your temporary higher skill level), some of the people in the group unwilling to champ would be more willing to champ up with a less punishing stat loss. Additionally, those who are champing will take more risks because dechamping early doesn't suck as much. This would generate more champs taking risks. More risks = more interesting pvp.

That is one perspective. If you believe perma-death champs were the greatest thing ever, then none of this suggestion will favor your thinking. On the other hand. If you believe champs should take more risky fights, and commit to the death more often, this suggestion will be slightly more favorable to your thinking.

(this post is not aimed at any response yet, it is just further discussion on the idea with the consideration of some possible outcomes in context of present conditions)

DA

[Deathangel 427]

Also, with the 3x champ limit per kingdom, smaller kingdoms would have easier time filling champ slots since those accounts used in smaller kingdoms would often be cycled frequently anyway, they will receive easier re-grinding conditions.

 

Larger kingdoms have no trouble filling champ slots anyway, so this wouldn't affect them (presently WU and TC, on chaos). It would however encourage all champions to take on more risks and pvp.

DA

[MrGARY 12,421]

I could only back lessening the sting of champing if the sting to others from being a champ is lessened.  I remember when 5 or so of us on epic killed a champ with sotg and seryll plate, it was like trying to knock down a brick wall with a pillow.  Whether or not the limit per kingdom is 3 doesn't really mean anything unless we're talking common pvp fights of 15-20+ people per side. 

 

Either way I'm of the opinion that less of champs are better, full removal is best.  Take that bias against champions however you like

[Wargasm 1,927]

Champs on Epic is a very different situation, given the drastically reduced population there.  Half your kingdom are champs because there's 6 people on everyday.  

[Deathangel 427]

3 hours ago, MrGARY said:

I could only back lessening the sting of champing if the sting to others from being a champ is lessened.  I remember when 5 or so of us on epic killed a champ with sotg and seryll plate, it was like trying to knock down a brick wall with a pillow.  Whether or not the limit per kingdom is 3 doesn't really mean anything unless we're talking common pvp fights of 15-20+ people per side. 

 

Either way I'm of the opinion that less of champs are better, full removal is best.  Take that bias against champions however you like

 

Could you elaborate on the sting sentence? I'm not sure what you mean.

DA

Edited December 7, 2018 by Deathangel