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Priest overhaul testing

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19 minutes ago, Wiolo said:

You guys need to stop ragging on this change, the LT resistance really builds up slowly. And it won't even be noticeable until you're at 30-40% resistance depending on your armour.
I fought a champion troll with LT and I gained about 1 1/2 minutes of resistance. That's less than a 20% decrease, and with the way LT heals single wounds, it really has no effect if your armour or DR is good.
Life transfer is not dead, give it a chance and test it out before you pound it down the second it gets proposed to being hooked up with the heal resistance system.
The only problem I had with LT at first was the fear of ruining people's ability to heal if I went healer. But hey, those wounds are gonna be healed anyways so it doesn't matter.

Also, I play priest main and manage quite well with the help of the market. Especially now that I will be able to build my own stuff, it makes sense to me.

 

Cool but what priest do you play? is it Fo? The changes could work for other priests but would probably make Fo a playable priest if imping along with the others were allowed. Again otherwise Fo isn't really worth playing even with the heals. Again I was asked what I thought could help Fo and those were my observations. Heck if Fo was the only one with imp ability he would be playable even with how badly he has been made in the overhaul and people would play him to skill and then change over to someone they really want; just like some do with Najho since he is easiest to get channeling skilled up right now and then they change to the priest they really want once their channeling is up. Honestly not sure how you would make Fo a long term priest that many would want to play unless you made it to were creatures died regardless of being cared for once they hit a certain age or so many months after hitting that age since cared for animals are basically immortal, but if you did that you would have a lot of player quiting because they now have to buy animals or breed them all over again. I guess it could help the economy but since you have animal transport you can get animals from all over instead of exclusively on a server, although this might help as well so prices don't get inflated.

 

Again it comes down to play-ability versus longevity of the game, do you want alot of new players while sacrificing the old player base or do you want to keep the old player base but still change enough that new players may be interested in the game. For a game as old as Wurm is you have to figure out where in the market you need to be and who/what you are willing to sacrifice to get there. Will these overhauls be more pleasing to new players than old player or can you find that balance that both factions may not be getting everything they want but at least they are getting some things they wanted while also making sure the changes make sense for the longevity of the game itself. Also since there are PvP and PvE servers, this becomes even more difficult because some things only make sense if on a PvP server while other are great for PvE servers but not PvP servers. At the end of the day we can give all the imput we want but this is a game that does need to make money in order to stay alive in an industry that has a lot of pay-to-win aspects and fly-by-day developers trying to compete with it.

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1 hour ago, Dranana1 said:

the only one still in effect here is the Improve which honestly doesn’t make sense. If you removed this restriction along with the Continue and Bash/Repair it would make the priest more playable even with the other original priest restrictions, including the individual priest restrictions)

Imagine you became a priest and the only thing you had to give up was the ability to cut wood lol. Sounds like you want priests to be some generic thing 100% of the playerbase is

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1 minute ago, Roccandil said:

 

I don't see the need for the change in the first place, noticeable or not. I'm still wondering why it's so important: I feel like there's something not being said.

Because its a healing spell and the healing spell global reduction is for healing spells.

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9 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Imagine you became a priest and the only thing you had to give up was the ability to cut wood lol. Sounds like you want priests to be some generic thing 100% of the playerbase is

 

I can see where you are coming from but what other restrictions would you think would help with balancing out the priests if the imping restriction was lifted? Like I said the mining restrictions and such made sense for Fo. Right now the priest player base I dont think is even 10% and most of those are because the priest is played as an alt, so should we just keep priests as something for people whose play style is multi characters and for get about the other play styles (solo or one main players). Lets face it there isn't much of an economy because people just make alts to level and do things while the main is doing other things. How about if you had to have a separate account for the priest away from other characters, although I don't see how this would actually help much honestly since people dont prim preists unless they need to do enchants, so again as a main character (unless you want to pay silver at markets to get anything done) priests are not very player friendly.

Edited by Dranana1

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Priests have great utility in exchange for not being able to imp, if you gave them the ability to imp then then there wouldn't be balancing them at all because they would do everything in the game

 

Pvp? Priests are much stronger than non priests

Casting? Non priests straight up cant cast

Pve? I can kill a troll with 1fs so meh, but priests do it better

Crafting? Solely non-priests

 

If you gave priests imping they'd be the best at every aspect of the game, there wouldnt be balancing it unless you made them awful to play in some other regard

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9 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Because its a healing spell and the healing spell global reduction is for healing spells.

 

It's a weapon effect, not a casted spell. If LT is a "spell", then Flaming Aura/Frostbrand are "spells" and should hit the same increased spell resistance for multicasts as Inferno/Hyopthermia.

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Just now, Oblivionnreaver said:

If you gave priests imping they'd be the best at every aspect of the game, there wouldnt be balancing it unless you made them awful to play in some other regard

 

"Crafter" is an enormously broad "class" that covers everything from saddles to shipbuilding. We don't have "leatherworker" or "shipbuilder" classes, because the game relies on how much time and effort it takes to learn either to provide specialization.

 

Priests are an exception to that rule, since they have only one skill: channeling. Split channeling into a dozen different spell schools, however, and you can then allow anyone to be a priest without instantly allowing them to be best at everything: the natural rules of Wurm skillgrind would take over.

 

The lore of everyone being "priests" is what would bother me, not the technical gameplay capability. :P

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That's not a global damage resistance and goes against how all the other spells have their resistances set out so not really sure what you're getting at

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22 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Priests have great utility in exchange for not being able to imp, if you gave them the ability to imp then then there wouldn't be balancing them at all because they would do everything in the game

 

Pvp? Priests are much stronger than non priests

Casting? Non priests straight up cant cast

Pve? I can kill a troll with 1fs so meh, but priests do it better

Crafting? Solely non-priests

 

If you gave priests imping they'd be the best at every aspect of the game, there wouldnt be balancing it unless you made them awful to play in some other regard

 

Again what would you consider good restrictions since some peoples play styles who do want to play priests are people who predominantly play crafters.

 

PvE: I could care less what spells they can cast at combat since most of the stuff people have are enchanted anyways. Not only that but I spend more time as a player crafting than I do fighting anything.

Casting: There are other types of spells for Karma and Sorcery, they just may be harder to get. So should we rework the Karma and Sorcery as well to make it fare for all caster types. 

PvP: I'm not a PvP player since I honestly don't like PvP and I am sure I am not the only one.

Crafting: So who cares about those who have more or less a crafter play style as opposed to other styles, we don't want priests here. This does not make sense because priests have very good enchant spells that make most crafting as a priest worth it.

 

Maybe I am not understanding what you are trying for but that pretty much is what I am getting from the post. If you don't want priests part of crafting take the enchants away and give them to another caster class instead.

Edited by Dranana1

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17 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

"Crafter" is an enormously broad "class" that covers everything from saddles to shipbuilding. We don't have "leatherworker" or "shipbuilder" classes, because the game relies on how much time and effort it takes to learn either to provide specialization.

 

Priests are an exception to that rule, since they have only one skill: channeling. Split channeling into a dozen different spell schools, however, and you can then allow anyone to be a priest without instantly allowing them to be best at everything: the natural rules of Wurm skillgrind would take over.

 

The lore of everyone being "priests" is what would bother me, not the technical gameplay capability. :P

 

That would be a great suggestion, because then priests would be a more playable character because the "skillgrind" of the mechanics would help to level out some of the priest aspects and even with the changes I don't think everyone will want to be priests because you still have to grind certain things and there are still some restrictions. Not everyone likes to play with restrictions unless it can fit their play style. Heck take it one step further and split the spells into different schools as well and link them only to certain things for priests, this way a crafter type person who only want to craft can get enchants and those who want to fight can get a larger selection of battle spells, but if you want to do both then you have to grind for both types and this will make priests less OP'd if the imp restriction was taken away. 

Edited by Dranana1

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pve: okay, so you're just straight up ignoring what spells you can cast because you don't personally like them, i can see why you're the master of balance

casting: karma spells are 100% combat, so if you ignore priest combat spells you'd probably ignore them too.

pvp: okay you ignore pvp because you don't like pvp

 

you literally ignore everything that makes a priest good then complain when they aren't good, well no ###### mate your perception is skewed. if you don't like priests don't use one, making everyone priests isn't going to change it for you.

 

5 minutes ago, Dranana1 said:

This does not make sense because priests have very good enchant spells that make most crafting as a priest worth it.

having one class that can craft everything and enchant everything doesn't make sense. if you failed to read my post before priests would be the best in every aspect of the game if they were able to imp.

9 minutes ago, Dranana1 said:

If you don't want priests part of crafting take the enchants away and give them to another caster calss instead.

you haven't fixed the problem with that you've just shifted it around slightly.

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6 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

pve: okay, so you're just straight up ignoring what spells you can cast because you don't personally like them, i can see why you're the master of balance

casting: karma spells are 100% combat, so if you ignore priest combat spells you'd probably ignore them too.

pvp: okay you ignore pvp because you don't like pvp

 

you literally ignore everything that makes a priest good then complain when they aren't good, well no ###### mate your perception is skewed. if you don't like priests don't use one, making everyone priests isn't going to change it for you.

 

16 minutes ago, Dranana1 said:

This does not make sense because priests have very good enchant spells that make most crafting as a priest worth it.

having one class that can craft everything and enchant everything doesn't make sense. if you failed to read my post before priests would be the best in every aspect of the game if they were able to imp.

16 minutes ago, Dranana1 said:

If you don't want priests part of crafting take the enchants away and give them to another caster calss instead.

you haven't fixed the problem with that you've just shifted it around slightly.

 

Then look at the post by Roccandil and my reply and see if that would make priests more open to different play styles while making sure they were not Op because they would work like the rest of Wurm does.

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This "remove all restrictions" argument doesn't make sense, and I'm getting tired of seeing it, if you removed all restrictions than everyone would be a priest, I myself am a priest main and I manage with the market and through hunting/rifts. This is about how you play the game, if you hate priests for their restrictions, than don't play them, but if you see a way that you can play without improvement + the loss of a single labour task, than do it! that's your reward, if you hate it, don't go priest. This game isn't made to satisfy everyone, if it did than it wouldn't be rewarding or feel special in any way, it would completely take away the charm and power of priesthood, if you feel that it's unfair to you as a crafter than read what I said just before this. I'm all for little touches here and there to make priests funner, but not to make them a complete walk in the park class that regenerates 20 favour a minute and overpowers normal players, that's why I liked the damage bonus nerf from 25% to 15% because it made it feel less required to other priests who don't have it to have the damage bonus.

There is an element of satisfaction to plotting a way to work around the restrictions and how you will play as a priest. If that went away than... being a priest would just be a requirement to everyone. And an obligation.

Edited by Wiolo

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2 hours ago, Dranana1 said:

Cleanse [33 faith, 26 favor] (Fo) - Targets tiles. Converts a 3x3 area of Mycelium or Mycelium trees back to normal grass or normal tree. Also works on dirt, converting dirt tiles to grass. (okay on the PvP server this makes sense for the Mycelium back to normal items, but on a PvE server this sucks. How about it does the Mycelium stuff and if there is no Mycelium maybe change something to tundra instead of grass or something else. If anyone has a suggestion, please give one for this alternative)

 

Destroy the evil, creeping, nasty Marsh.    :)

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21 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

That's not a global damage resistance and goes against how all the other spells have their resistances set out so not really sure what you're getting at

 

You called LT a spell. But, LT is a weapon enchantment. If a weapon enchantment is also a spell, then FA and FB are spells. If spells are inherently supposed to trigger temporary resistances, then FA and FB should do so as well.

 

There, I "spelled" it out. :P

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Now you're just prodding Roccandil. Heh
There's plenty of reasons for LT to be hooked up to the global resistance, especially since it has little to no effect in most PvE circumstances.
Heal resistance is just to prevent people from healing extremely fast and being invincible in unique fights, or PvP fights just because some random horse showed up to the fight.
The player gets penalized with a heal resistance to put things in to balance from future healing, the player got their healing chance, and they did it through a sheep. Their next heal will be smaller.

Edited by Wiolo

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7 minutes ago, Wiolo said:

This "remove all restrictions" argument doesn't make sense, and I'm getting tired of seeing it, if you removed all restrictions than everyone would be a priest

 

Is everyone a weaponsmith? Is everyone a carpenter, a miner, a potter, a tailor? The priest class is inherently a bolted-on mechanic to the real Wurm class differentiation system: the skillgrind.

 

That's why this keeps surfacing: the priest restriction doesn't make sense within the framework of Wurm. Granted, it's done, and clearly we're not going back, but if I could have one toon, and over time learn and do everything I wanted on that toon, both crafting and spellcasting, to make my own "class", I'd love it. That's -real- sandboxing. Pulling out my priest alts one at a time to get whatever capability I need in no way enhances my gameplay experience.

 

Actually, if I were designing Wurm way back when, but with the knowledge of how it's played out, I'd probably have made the name "priest" a function, not of casting spells, but of preaching one's god and doing conversions: so it would be more of a role-play thing.

 

The potential to link to a divinity to gain power to help the gods in their struggles would be part of the innate lore of the people of Wurm, and I'd call that something else (theomancy, for instance). Priests would be public relations; theomancers would be doing the real work. :P

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4 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

You called LT a spell. But, LT is a weapon enchantment. If a weapon enchantment is also a spell, then FA and FB are spells. If spells are inherently supposed to trigger temporary resistances, then FA and FB should do so as well.

 

There, I "spelled" it out. :P

 

45 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

If LT is a "spell", then Flaming Aura/Frostbrand are "spells" and should hit the same increased spell resistance for multicasts as Inferno/Hyopthermia.

completely different scenarios you've put out. spell resistances are so you can't spam them, but you can't really spam hits because you're limited by glances/parries/blocks. damage spells aren't blocked in the same way so you get the resistances, healing spells you don't get blocked in the same way so you get resistances, life transfer you can get around the blocks by choosing an easier target so it gets resistances.

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29 minutes ago, Amadee said:

 

Destroy the evil, creeping, nasty Marsh.    :)

Very very sadly marsh never creeps :( And no way to create it which is much worse.

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Being a priest is like a class in wurm, and there are only two classes.

18 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

That's why this keeps surfacing: the priest restriction doesn't make sense within the framework of Wurm.

Wurm is what you make of it mate, if there were more instances of class like debuffs and powers than that would be what Wurm is to more people. And nobody would argue with it.
Like I said before, carving a path and figuring out how you will be a priest and accepting the restrictions and carving your own new world is interesting, and it's why I enjoy being a priest, I get to help people with my powers that most stray from.
I have no alts, my priest is a main. And I'm having fun.

Edited by Wiolo
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Just now, Jaz said:

Very very sadly marsh never creeps :( And no way to create it which is much worse.

LOL.  You've been lucky then. (or unlucky since you seem to want it to, hehe).   I've found it to be a scourge. It spreads to any adjacent tile , including diagonal, that is grass or dirt and if left unchecked will creep right out of the water and up the hillsides.  Honestly though, I haven't had to deal with it for the last little while so maybe something has changed with it in the last year?

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8 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

 

completely different scenarios you've put out. spell resistances are so you can't spam them, but you can't really spam hits because you're limited by glances/parries/blocks. damage spells aren't blocked in the same way so you get the resistances, healing spells you don't get blocked in the same way so you get resistances, life transfer you can get around the blocks by choosing an easier target so it gets resistances.

 

LT has worked just fine without resistance. The "abuse" examples presented are weak corner cases at best, and not a general issue.

 

 

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it's gonna keep working fine with resistance too. just because not everyone does it doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed

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Just now, Oblivionnreaver said:

it's gonna keep working fine with resistance too. just because not everyone does it doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed

 

What is this "it" you're trying to prevent?

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