Retrograde

Priest overhaul testing

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Rhianna said:

 

ftfy

 

main point being is that in reality there are only 2 kingdoms pvping on Chaos so both sides points need to be considered not just because one side is the loudest or have more people to spam support for it. Not that it matters that much to me, I left Chaos 4 weeks ago because of the increasing toxicity on both sides and kvking in suggestion threads.

I agree with this. We need to step back and stop trying to push our own agendas and look for problems that really fix the issue. 

 

Yes is true that Priests still need some tweaking.

Yes is true that its a delicate process and can easily be inbalanced.

No is not true that damage spells are too op.

No is not true that there is no way to counter them.

 

The issue is not the spells themselves, but the lack of ways to stop the casting. Once a priest starts casting, no matter which side that priest is or if its a heal or a damage spell, everyone have to make a split second decision to either run or push. Instead, make it so once a statuette comes out, those on the front lines rush the spell caster in the hopes they can interrupt the spell. This does two very important things:

 

1) Encourages skirmish warfare and combat. Players in open field have the ability to interrupt each other's casts, while those defending can easily discourage attackers from pushing (casting spells from the safety of your dirt wall can be very difficult to stop by non priests.). Non priests do not feel hopeless when priests are present and rewards them for being skilled players.

 

2) It increases survivability of those who have the upper hand. A single spell should not change the outcome of a winning battle. You shouldn't be back on top because the RNG gods favored you when you casted your Light of Fo. This has always been a big issue since groups seldom have the chance to stop a caster from finishing his spell. If your team is loosing, you shouldn't be able to simply stroll in and cast that LoF and push the win button. No, it should be a risky proposition for you to join the frontlines to cast a spell instead of having your team pull back to get healed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dadamage said:

Not every 5 seconds every 10 seconds with no way to block,

thank you for agreeing that spells are powerful now because you have no way to block

Like it has been said before, show where this has been the case. Stop pushing forward ficticious situations to try and prove your point. 

 

Spell spam is not a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You never been in boat PvP.have you ? It's needed fixed for a long time, I will make you a vid when I'm out of work been playing for 16 years ISH 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Dadamage said:

You never been in boat PvP.have you ? It's needed fixed for a long time, I will make you a vid when I'm out of work been playing for 16 years ISH 

I am sure spell damage has been a big issue for the past 16 years. Yep. That's how we killed Necro on the boat chase after all. Spell spam, not arrows.

Edited by Angelklaine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell you what how about priest have to hold the statue in there hand like a weapon to cast, that way they can't block or parry . Seems fair to me 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dadamage said:

Tell you what how about priest have to hold the statue in there hand like a weapon to cast, that way they can't block or parry . Seems fair to me 

Making priests unable to block or parry while casting has been suggested before and I think its a great idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every other item.you have to equip , think we can all agree on that , then it's viable to.use archery to stop casting . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

 

Because as far as I am concerned, very little changed in the priest update. 

 

Cool so you dont care if its changed back then....... as very little changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dadamage said:

How do you stop melee attack you use a shield,

 

How do you stop archery you use a shield,

 

How do you stop direct spell attacks you can,t unless you walk up to them from 20 tiles away and shield bash if it work with a 30sec cool down.........nope

I think shields should stop direct attacks only but of course you have to face the right way as for aoe you just walk off them.

 

I hear you, but I feel like the way to stop an already casted spell should be with a spell or ward. I've love to see something like the tiered offensive and defensive spells of Baldur's Gate or Might and Magic! :ph34r: My memory is vague, but I remember spheres of protection and resistance enhancements or even immunities, with stronger defensive spells requiring stronger offensive magic to undo or penetrate.

 

As an outsider, I like that spells are powerful, and I don't like the idea of blocking them with a shield (or parrying with a weapon). For a spell that summons a physical projectile, maybe (maybe!), but if I'm throwing a local thermo-anomaly at you, I don't care if it hits your shield: you're going to be affected, and I could just as easily be locally modifying reality around (or in) your body. Makes sense that physical armor is useless against that.

 

No, the resistance jewelry is a good start, but I feel like if offensive spells are a problem at all, it's because defensive spells don't exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how about if you want to block spells you change paths.....

 

also was thinking why dont you have a cast for armour that like web armour or aosp..

  • Spell web "Slows casters casting time depending on cast power max 4 seconds"
  • Spell reflection "Damages spell caster depending on cast power" 

Like web Armour and Aosp you can only have one of these casted on the armour.. so you couldn't have Both Web Armour or Spell Web  so either geared for Melee or spell combat.

 

Blocking spells with a shield is just Silly and should not even be looked at. Why would you even choose a path that can block spells then.

 

@Budda

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will repeat why not make it so you have to equip a statue to cast, like bow weapon to use 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Dadamage said:

I will repeat why not make it so you have to equip a statue to cast, like bow weapon to use 

 

good idea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dadamage said:

Not every 5 seconds every 10 seconds with no way to block,

thank you for agreeing that spells are powerful now because you have no way to block

tangleweave?

 

Whats your next response? "I can't tangleweave if im not a priest, priests are op"

 

you mean to tell me that a magic user can out magic a non magic user? wow!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hemrzz said:

how about if you want to block spells you change paths.....

 

also was thinking why dont you have a cast for armour that like web armour or aosp..

  • Spell web "Slows casters casting time depending on cast power max 4 seconds"
  • Spell reflection "Damages spell caster depending on cast power" 

Like web Armour and Aosp you can only have one of these casted on the armour.. so you couldn't have Both Web Armour or Spell Web  so either geared for Melee or spell combat.

 

Blocking spells with a shield is just Silly and should not even be looked at. Why would you even choose a path that can block spells then.

 

@Budda

 

 

I like this idea. If you have to choose between say, web armor and reflection or spell web, then its a call the player makes. This would be a great addition. Its not a solution per se, but its a move in the right direction. It allows for strategy and forces players to choose whats more important to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Quicktor said:

 

 

@Budda

but making shields being able to block spells? really?

you are realizing this is a KvK thing from their side right...?

 

OK, I draw the line for stupid comments under this one. 

 

Tc pushed for:

 

Armour rework when we own all the drake and scale. 

 

Removal of hota, when we completely own the hota and farm it for free £

 

Chaining of towers to prevent the random war deeds that we were actually big in doing, also the biggest kingdom with most land and deeds to now cover. 

 

Nerfed high body strength accounts and even provided the formula even tho we had/have the best accounts in game. 

 

Numerous other small updates that equal the playing field and aim to ease the gap between new and older players. Infact when I pushed for the 5 things pvp needs, and had all kingdoms in the chat talking, we all agreed we wanted to see less entry requirements. Sadly being a priest is one, do I care!?? I am a priest, so not like I'm refusing to be a priest lmao. 

 

@BuddaI think the update would be good, if you make it so shields work to defend against magic as they do archery, then nice, as Quicktor pointed out, a little bit of coordination with archery for less damage can kill people, so a bit of coordination from priests should get the same result in the larger fights whilst still providing the ability to counter for non priests/ smaller fights. I do think shield bashing could also do with some love for the interruption of spells. 

 

Edited by Mclavin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly going off all the video's that are being posted up left and right and the stories people share its not an issue of "spells are op they 100 to 0 you in a matter of seconds" but a "This is new and we are not used to this" issue 

If for some reason you do want to try and nerf spell casting by making shields block it people will just revert to more axe hits and the whining will continue and those who complain now will find something else to complain about(eg the whole "Oh WU has double our numbers" or "TC rushed us with way more people then we can muster")

The thing is spells dont really do a lot of damage but what they do is bring uncertainty  in 1 of the video's there where a bunch of spiders and trolls and horses running around while people ran circles around each other in every direction trying to find someone to hit and in the middle of this a aoe spell was cast that resulted in 1 group suddenly backing off and the confusion that was caused by this lead to them backing off too much and in a fragmented group resulting in the other group winning

This isnt because of an inability to block spells or spells doing too much damage this is because of a new mechanic spicing up pvp and people not being used to it just yet so instead of looking for ways to nerf something that is bringing fresh life into pvp let it be for a while observe the video's analyze them study them see if the numbers of damage are too high and ask the players for feedback in a topic that is heavily moderated in the sense of if kvk or trolling starts posts get deleted/edited if it gets out of hand

To me what i see when i watch those video's is 1 group being more adaptable to change where as the other is more set in their way plus the 2nd group decided to swap from scale and drake to leather thus they are not used to the damage they take from anything and thus the blame game starts

Its like a level 10 newbie complaining that he died to a level 50 on a full pvp server in any other moba and then devs making it impossible for the level 50 player to damage the newbie but letting the newbie still damage the level 50 it would be the bad solution
What would be the good one is having adequate information for that level 10 newbie that he is on a pvp server and that anyone can and will kill him in time and if he is not happy with it that he can transfer before he reaches level 21 to a non pvp server for free 1 time only

Same goes with this here let the meta grow let people learn how to deal with it a lot of major changes happened all in rapid succession and people need time to adjust and learn new things wurm doesnt have a 10 million playerbase with an analytical network like say league that is capable of spotting if a recent buff to 1 champions ability results in an unfair setup and thus requiring a nerf and with the nature of this game and the patch it requires people to learn and make mistakes
If 1 of those mistakes is(as mentioned previously) 1 group going heavily a healer priest where as the other goes a mixture of gods for a mixture of spells then there should be an advantage to those who went with multiple gods vs all 1 god

Now if say a shield blocking/dampening effect comes in that targets only offensive spells then that 1 group that went full healer would gain an advantage due to higher amount of healers and with any suggestion made so far none point towards healing being blocked either and thus it would put a healer god at an unfair advantage vs an offensive god

So if any change is made to shields being able to deflect/reduce damage/outright block it should be working both ways
If its a deflect spell cast on a shield make it be affected by both offensive and healing(after all you have a "magic deflect" shield not a "shard of ice deflect" shield)
IIf a damage reduction spell is made it should also reduce healing received after all you are trying to dampen magical powers from affecting you
if you want to outright block based on a % chance it should have the same % chance for healing as well and have a unequip timer of 1-2 seconds(which should be interruptible) to take off your shield(if you recently blocked a shield(lets say due to residual magic flowing around it)) before you can either swap out or switch to a non magic blocking shield

Any form of absolute offensive magic blocking will only favor healing which would benefit both sides and make people park their offensive priests back at home in favor of better pvp accounts vs bringing a priest along(after all why bring something useless with you into battle)

@Buddayou really have to sit down and check the pro's and cons on everything from here and ask the reasons why people suggest them and ask for proof to their allegations when it comes to certain things like this as im sure a lot of us have seen it in other pve and pvp games in the past a vocal group often pushes so hard that the devs think thats what everyone agrees on where as it often isnt the case

A clear example of this was in albion online's last beta before launch the 3rd biggest russian guild pushed for a buff to claw weapons which everyone was against but this guild(claws where already op at the time in 1vs1 stealth attacks on gatherers) and what happened was that a piece of mage gear got a buff to 1 of its abilities(a faster walking ability) which resulted in every "assassin" suddenly rocking that mage gear in order to run faster then the equivalent level mount thus no one could get away
This resulted in that guild being able to become number 2 within a week(in terms of wealth and territory control) and upon looking at the change they had made the developers reverted it and apologized to the players but a lot did not accept it and subsequent patches nerved the claw assassin build into the ground for a very long time making 1vs1 ganking almost impossible unless you had a gear advantage as now the devs wanted to please the wider audience too much instead of just reverting it and leaving it at that

This is the case here too if 1 of those 3 types of changes that are suggested make it through without their healing counterpart being affected by it to it will cause a change that will result in players just not using offensive magic as its not worth it when everyone rocks a shield that stops spells like that in some way and just stick to back line healing like before and the resulting waltz that kept showing up in fights and you will just get a push back of other players saying "the devs favor this group too much" and "we want this to change then too" and just more work and more drama and stress for you guys resulting in other features getting less attention as you spend more and more time trying to please an ever changing list of nerfs and buffs(look at league of legends who went from 8-10 item and champion changes to 10 page patch notes every 2nd patch to "balance" champions after they started to listen to a small group of "pro" players for a season which resulted in a certain playstyle becoming op in certain levels of ranking)

So let it be as it is right now gather more info get people that want changes done to this to show actual combat video's where spells where the majority if not all of it that resulted in the death of group and figure out how and why they died and if it was a spell that does too much or a bug or just players being players and then post up suggested changes from there and throw those on the test server and invite people over(dont reward them as the reward for us players should be knowing new changes in and out thats a reward enough) and that should be a better way to go around to it then just springing a nerf ontop off people because of a vocal small group as thats the case with so many things now days and it never ends well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its easy. Atm there is no bad side of being a priest. Some spells have longer range then tangleweave and dispell. My idea how to fix it:

The idea is good, you either block 20% of the arrows or no arrows making the ill be alone in front casting spells to taunt from - cant do anything against it easily countered by archery. So casting spells is more about timing and place instead of randomly cause there is no downside. So long story short - You equip the statuett while casting (automatically) which mean you do not parry nor block shields. I think the damage taken while casting should be lowered by 10-15% and the timers should be below 15% for all spells or this is a death sentence. Would fix most of the problems as everyone has a bow and non priests can use it to good extent with good effiency and priests will be even better with it. Currently the bow is against people who are very new or horses. Thats it. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at the end of the day we all know who will get their way, but its blatantly obvious that this is a change being tried to brought in so a certain group doesnt have the "re-learn" the game.

hell, they even tangleweave you if you just dispel the ground, its easy to get the cooldown off of them, they havent bothered one bit to try out the new system even, this is just pathetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

at the end of the day we all know who will get their way, but its blatantly obvious that this is a change being tried to brought in so a certain group doesnt have the "re-learn" the game.

hell, they even tangleweave you if you just dispel the ground, its easy to get the cooldown off of them, they havent bothered one bit to try out the new system even, this is just pathetic.

Very good and constructive feedback. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a non priest in pvp, I have never been nuked by spells and I am fully capable of pvping still.

Things have not gotten to a point where I feel like I have to priest up to pvp.

I have not once seen anyone get nuked by spells, If anything MAYBE change the DR from jewelry to a slightly higher number.

 

I would love to see an example of someone spell spammed to death, truly would.

Shields blocking spells imo would be silly as there is already very good limiting factors for spell spam (resistance, jewelry, soul str) 

I could however see some sort of enchant to block specific types of damage with a shield. If the shield was to perhaps take all of the damage you would have taken instead. So long as the chance to block is small and only related to the one type of damage you choose to counter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, necroe said:

I am a non priest in pvp, I have never been nuked by spells and I am fully capable of pvping still.

Things have not gotten to a point where I feel like I have to priest up to pvp.

I have not once seen anyone get nuked by spells, If anything MAYBE change the DR from jewelry to a slightly higher number.

 

I would love to see an example of someone spell spammed to death, truly would.

Shields blocking spells imo would be silly as there is already very good limiting factors for spell spam (resistance, jewelry, soul str) 

I could however see some sort of enchant to block specific types of damage with a shield. If the shield was to perhaps take all of the damage you would have taken instead. So long as the chance to block is small and only related to the one type of damage you choose to counter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But blocking arrows while casting is okei? I can understand shield does not block magic, but you holding the statuette with 2 hands and blocking still works? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't you get a nerf to CR while casting? I do believe so... which means you are more susceptible to being hit while casting.

A huge axe to the face can 100% stop a cast just as well as a tangleweave.

 

I am not saying a priest should block with shield while casting, that I could see being changed.

 

Actually above makes perfect sense more i think about it. A priest holds statuette with both hands ( has to concentrate on casting) would not be any different then pulling out a huge axe and no longer having shield available to block with.

Would maybe make a small fight more viable against priests.

Edited by necroe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could even go as far as incorporating something similiar to DND where you have some math behind a check to see if getting hit interupts your cast and have some skill like maybe mind speed be the determining factor on whether you successfully concentrate well enough to keep casting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shields blocking spells is silly.. but having the priests get a nerf on shield blocking (not necessarily stop blocking but reduce blocking) while casting would be interesting.. especially in small fights where a priest was always better than a non-priest, and this of course would also make archery get higher chance to hit against a casting priest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now