Retrograde

Priest overhaul testing

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Fat thighs? No Thanks!  

 

PS: I would not mind seeing Vynora get jewelcrafting, including as their sac item. I might be wrong but I always assumed Vynora did more saccing than any other priest, due to broad range of enchants. Obviously gold jewelry would give tons of sac value, but even high value iron and copper pendulums are an option if there is no access to gold & silver. I am also presuming that enchanted jewelry will be getting extended items in the future (or already has, and I ignored them).  While shipbuilding is fitting for Vynora, it may not be all that useful as a craft skill  since shipbuilding sales are pretty maxxed, and you cannot sac ships. Execpt maybe to a storm god.

 

Carpentry mostly would irritate my Fo's sense of fair play since ALL my Fos normally live in wood houses, use wood altars, and live in .. the woods. Carpentry is one of the highest leveled skills even on my Fo priests (all those planks), and definitely on my Fo followers, who all go gaga over fine carpentry

 

 

 

Another option:

 

  • Fo: all woodcrafting/inc saccing etc. But still cannot kill trees. Anything plant-ish. Boost from Vegan meals?
  • Mag: all stonecrafting (masonry slate etc) .. except gems. Maybe add more marble small valuable decor items. marble containers, etc.
  • Vynora: all gems and jewelrycraft especially enchanted jewelry. She would have to weedle Magranon out of the gems. Add enchanted jewelry if not already existing. Plus, add pearls coral & turtleshell items (oceanic items) to the game and make them especially beloved by Vynora.  Also, she likes ... fish. Let her followers sac fish.  Food items made with fish give extra nutritional stuff  to Vynora peeps, they even like it raw and wrigglry.  Also, enchanted books & tomes.
  • Libila: poisons and enchanted arrows & oils (fire frost shadow sleep). Anything with mushrooms

 

 

Iron, being common and mundane, is largely disdained by the deities, but beloved by MAN. 

 

Have you ever seen Fo? He's practically a frickin' ENT. A tree ent. He appreciates trees & woodcraft like none of the others do. 

Does he look like a dude that likes to do sit around and do Tailoring in his spare time? Knitting? Needlecraft?

(Although I do like wearing cloth armor. Some wickedly druidic BARK ARMOR might lure me away from it, though. )

 

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Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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19 hours ago, Nocturnes said:

 

That being said I would like to lift up that I dont think her passives really fit someone who is supposed to be a goddess of death and decay "war" (think dark magranon version). Libila's passive except the CR bonus feels more like a support god

 @MrGARY

 

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1 hour ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

PS: I would not mind seeing Vynora get jewelcrafting, including as their sac item. I might be wrong but I always assumed Vynora did more saccing than any other priest, due to broad range of enchants. Obviously gold jewelry would give tons of sac value, but even high value iron and copper pendulums are an option if there is no access to gold & silver. I am also presuming that enchanted jewelry will be getting extended items in the future (or already has, and I ignored them).  While shipbuilding is fitting for Vynora, it may not be all that useful as a craft skill  since shipbuilding sales are pretty maxxed, and you cannot sac ships. Execpt maybe to a storm god.

 

Digging + pottery + pottery affinity would be awesome (I'm not sure people know how awesome). With decently high pottery on my main and a rare/runed shovel, I can reliably create 70+ QL bricks, each of which is worth 10+ favor to a Fo priest now.

 

If Vyn gets digging + pottery affinity as planned now, she'll be a saccing machine. Allowing her to imp pottery to grind that skill would be the icing on the cake.

 

As an aside, I -really- wish there were a digging imbue. It would allow me to create even higher QL pottery bricks.

 

 

1 hour ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

Carpentry mostly would irritate my Fo's sense of fair play since ALL my Fos normally live in wood houses, use wood altars, and live in .. the woods. Carpentry is one of the highest leveled skills even on my Fo priests (all those planks), and definitely on my Fo followers, who all go gaga over fine carpentry

 

Vyn has the wood affinity, and carp is cutting up dead trees. Not sure that really fits Fo. :)

 

1 hour ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

Another option:

  • Fo: all woodcrafting/inc saccing etc. But still cannot kill trees. Anything plant-ish. Boost from Vegan meals?
  • Mag: all stonecrafting (masonry slate etc) .. except gems. Maybe add more marble small valuable decor items. marble containers, etc.
  • Vynora: all gems and jewelrycraft especially enchanted jewelry. She would have to weedle Magranon out of the gems. Add enchanted jewelry if not already existing. Plus, add pearls coral & turtleshell items (oceanic items) to the game and make them especially beloved by Vynora.  Also, she likes ... fish. Let her followers sac fish.  Food items made with fish give extra nutritional stuff  to Vynora peeps, they even like it raw and wrigglry.  Also, enchanted books & tomes.
  • Libila: poisons and enchanted arrows & oils (fire frost shadow sleep). Anything with mushrooms

 

Stonecrafting does make sense for Mag, and I like the idea of oceanic items. I -really- like the idea of Vyn having a fish affinity. Maybe leave Fo the pottery affinity?

 

1 hour ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

Iron, being common and mundane, is largely disdained by the deities, but beloved by MAN. 

 

Mag likes iron...

 

1 hour ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

Have you ever seen Fo? He's practically a frickin' ENT. A tree ent. He appreciates trees & woodcraft like none of the others do. 

Does he look like a dude that likes to do sit around and do Tailoring in his spare time? Knitting? Needlecraft?

(Although I do like wearing cloth armor. Some wickedly druidic BARK ARMOR might lure me away from it, though. )

 

Cloth comes from cotton (Fo-ish) and wool (Fo-ish). While he may not tailor, it seems something he'd approve of. In fact, that lends credence to him wanting cloth in saccing: he can't/doesn't make it himself. :)

 

And I'm still not sure Fo would be all that keen on carving up dead trees....

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21 minutes ago, Nocturnes said:

 @MrGARY

 

 

I somehow missed that, but the offensive cr bonus is an aggressive bonus in the most possible way it could be one.

Personally when it comes to priests doing more damage, I'm more in favor of removing it from all gods because while individually its not a big deal, it's such a huge bonus when everyone is a priest doing more damage per hit combined with aggressives damage bonus, and addy weapon damage bonus, and BT doing more damage than normal (which it seems like it will probably end up still doing so), and crits.

I wouldn't be opposed to Lib getting the same damage bonus Mag has to equalize "default war god vs default war god", however that means all the player gods that are hate god can possibly get the damage bonus as well which just leads to everyone being a priest that does more damage which is bad.

 

Alternatively... hardcode the damage bonus to Mag and Lib and remove it from template diety passives so no player gods have it.  Now Mag and Lib are more equalized since Mag is getting more combat spells and a heal which is more inline with Libs specialty, while giving more reason to choose a template god over player gods.

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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 And I'm still not sure Fo would be all that keen on carving up dead trees....

 

 

According to Dwarf Fortress and Elders Scrolls canon, and they should know,  most races that forbid cutting trees (Bosmer & generic elves) have no problem with fashioning items from wood, and in fact they excel at it.

 

In the case of the Bosmer, they import the wood (which would parallel how a Fo would get it).

 

I cannot recall exactly how Dwarf Fortress elves acquire their wood, just that they will burn your settlement to the ground if they catch anyone else even crafting a wood bowl or staff. God forbid you make a wagon or, worse, a coal pile.   Or cut a tree.


 

 

Tree Huggers are a prickly lot. Logic is not part of their end game. Logic just gets in the way. Business is Logic. Life is irrational.   Wurm understands this intrinsically. Wurm has never been based on Logic.  It is also not a realistic game since it features: dragons, magic swords, immortality, magic spells, and giant gods walking the earth. Also outer space wars.

 

I am fine with Fo liking to dig, as digging the earth is how one plants trees and crops and the earth sustains life. I could live with not being able to dig clay or sand. Personally, I would prefer Fo were instead tree tenders and both planted new trees as well as harvested overaged ones (to make room for new saplings), but that's not likely to change at this stage of the game. After all, we harvest crops and they too are living plants. But we only harvest them at the end of their life stage, and to make room for new. Like all fertility gods, death and life are dualistic sides of Fo's nature. "Killing" plants is killing plants, whether it is 12 feet high, or  12 inches. Trees are only overgrown carrots, really. When their time has come, first we reap. Then we sow. 

 

Clay is just a dead, dead, dead material. It has never been alive. It will never BE alive. It does not recycle back into life. It has more to do with stone and minerals than with living organisms.   Pottery has nothing to do with LIFE FORCE. It is devoid of Life. 

 

Wood is organic. Fo is the god of organic things, just as Vynora rules the seas and Magranon the mountains.  Both Clay and Sand are usually found along water (in wurm) so perhaps closest to Vynora than to Mag in his Mountains, or Fo in his Forests and his gardens. Binding Fo to anything even remotely associated with sand and clay because he digs is just random free association, next they will tie glassmaking to Fo because he digs sand.

 

Give sand and clay digging back to the goddess of waters and shorelines. It is her domain. Since roads are her domain, maybe general terraforming should be also. Leave trees to the god of trees, who watches over their cycle of life and death, just as with all other plant life. Maybe give Vynora and Fo priests a onetime option to switch Digging and Woodcutting skill levels, I think they once did something  similar with Staffs/Polearms?

 

Maybe too late to change some things ten years into the game. If now is a time for change though, worth at least the thought.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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If your argument is that if it's illogical, it makes sense, well, that's your business, but I'm not going there. :)

 

At any rate, I'd much rather see Fo keep his pottery bonus and get pottery imping, maybe along with cloth tailoring.

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Roccandil is not a priest, has 90+ effective pottery, and I have two 100-faith Fo priests. They can cast all day with the pottery bricks I make them.

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Okay thought so. Was just curious as of why the pottery nerf bothered you, I feel like both Fo and Vynora shoul bothd get it, weird pointless nerfs like this are just annoying.

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@Brash_Endeavors has some interesting points, not that I agree with them all, but certainly some interesting perspective. It would be fun when not all thing would be black and white imo, like you can dig everything as X god, or you can't dig anything like Y god. What if instead you can only dig dirt as Fo, and can't dig clay, and some other god Vyn for example can dig clay and can't dig earth (which now that I think of her affinity for pavements doesn't make sense for her not to dig). What of Fo can cut only overaged trees but not young ones.

Also if we are giving just specific imping skills to priests why not focus on the one for making runes? For example For fine carp, Vyn jewelry, Mag stonecutting distributing them like this could add some flavour.

Question is do we want to promote commerce among gods with mixing imping skills, mats, and sacing affinity or to make them self-reliant saccing machines and powerhouses.

Not easy to ballance, fit lore and make sense as I can see

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15 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

I somehow missed that, but the offensive cr bonus is an aggressive bonus in the most possible way it could be one.

Personally when it comes to priests doing more damage, I'm more in favor of removing it from all gods because while individually its not a big deal, it's such a huge bonus when everyone is a priest doing more damage per hit combined with aggressives damage bonus, and addy weapon damage bonus, and BT doing more damage than normal (which it seems like it will probably end up still doing so), and crits.

I wouldn't be opposed to Lib getting the same damage bonus Mag has to equalize "default war god vs default war god", however that means all the player gods that are hate god can possibly get the damage bonus as well which just leads to everyone being a priest that does more damage which is bad.

 

Alternatively... hardcode the damage bonus to Mag and Lib and remove it from template diety passives so no player gods have it.  Now Mag and Lib are more equalized since Mag is getting more combat spells and a heal which is more inline with Libs specialty, while giving more reason to choose a template god over player gods.

 

I Agree 100% Gary, i would be ok seing the flat dmg bonus gone all together as its abit unfair for non-priests in war, but id also be ok with having them only on lib and mag and not the other mixed dieties, this would allowe the old gods to comeback in to the pvp meta too. 

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9 hours ago, kochinac said:

Also if we are giving just specific imping skills to priests why not focus on the one for making runes? For example For fine carp, Vyn jewelry, Mag stonecutting distributing them like this could add some flavour.

Question is do we want to promote commerce among gods with mixing imping skills, mats, and sacing affinity or to make them self-reliant saccing machines and powerhouses. 

Not easy to ballance, fit lore and make sense as I can see

 

Good points... My take is that self-reliance is desirable with a dwindling playerbase, and that was kinda the original idea of giving the priests more abilities in this update.

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Something that bothers me is the overwhelming tug I feel from the BL deity's because of alchemy sacrifice, it's just so good! I have like 6k lovage and rosemary which would be worth >72,000 favour with favor regen paired. Just saying.
I feel like Fo's food bonus should give 10 favor for chopped veggies. I have 85 cloth tailoring and I still don't care because I just hate square making. lol
And I take back what I said about Fo, he's still a cool guy, but he really needs a skill gain bonus of some kind just look at this graph below.

  • Tosiek: 10% skill gain bonus in everything.
  • Smeagain: No bonus.
  • Paaweelr: 25% increased combat skill gain.
  • Nathan : 25% increased combat skill gain.
  • Nahjo: 10% skill gain bonus in everything.
  • Vynora 10% skill gain bonus in everything.
  • Magranon 25% increased combat skill gain.
  • Fo: Nothing.
  • Libila: Nothing

Fo needs a 20% increase in nature related skills. Badly. Cause when you go Fo, you feel like you're missing out on improved gains somehow. Which hurts mah heart! 66% of the deity's have a skill gain bonus so far.
Also happy halloween.

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43 minutes ago, Wiolo said:

Fo needs a 20% increase in nature related skills

 

Fo would become forced follower meta for all new players to grind meditating, would need to limit what skills it applies to probably.

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Minus meditating then, or just a 10% increase in nature.

Edited by Wiolo

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So what if med gets a 20% bonus? A 10% increase in nature is dwarfed by the Vyn bonus.

 

Med at 20% is actually an interesting choice, versus 10% on nearly everything (including stats).

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I agree Roccandil.
It's better than nothing, god give him something christ oh my god. Oh my god, god.

Edited by Wiolo

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the 25% combat skill gain bonus isn't really that flash unless you're on some weird LMS + fighting stance grind, you'd be better off with the 10% to everything, as that covers some combat skills that the 25% doesn't, but the 25/15% bonus dmg at 40 faith indirectly increases stance and weapon skill, so getting 90 def/agg/norm fighting is like 30-40% more skillgain or something, which is nice. Not that those skills do much anyway lol

 

meditating if you no life it and manage rug ql perfectly, you can get 70 meditating well before you've even got all the questions done, last alt i did i was only pop9 when i hit 70 meditating 9 times a day, but i guess if you don't have wurmassistant and can't log in whenever it tells you to meditate it'd be a bit more of a bonus. if you're grinding a new acc 10% to characteristics and all skills would be better than hitting 70 med asap imho, but that's personal preference.

 

flat damage bonus is meh, never really found it interesting same as all the other statstick mechanics, wouldn't really bother me if they took it out and gave them something different instead

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Any idea on when this update will make it ingame?

Seem to be going on circles the last week without progress.

Edited by Rocklobstar

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Quote

Oakshell - Maximum damage reduction decreased from 80% to 70%. Maximum glance rate decreased from 40% to 33.3%. Can now only be cast on players on PvP servers. Oakshell now reduces mounted movement speed across all servers instead of just Epic. This movement speed penalty has been fixed to apply to hitched creatures as well.


I think Oakshell could still be used as a choice on PVP servers, I see quite a few priests lost the ability to cast it anyway so we'll see a reduced use with that + the changes for it to affect speed. 
I think making it "player only" renders unicorns pointless to ride, unless this was your goal then i can support unicorns being useless. :D

Unicorns cannot wear bardings, so that will be the result. But i think that's ok. Just making others aware.

Edited by Mclavin

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On 10/19/2018 at 11:46 PM, Wargasm said:

Yes, by all means, lets make the most OP weapon in the game do even MORE ridiculous damage.  Put human's demise on it.... 


Artifacts are barely used and even then only by people with a specific skill in what is widely considered not worth.
A demise spell won't make them OP, because they aren't OP and the question was "what is happening to them if the demise spells are getting removed?" because in 80% of players eyes, this is further pushing the uselessness of them.
Not sure how you gathered the words to reply like that

@SinduskNot sure you replied already

Edited by Mclavin

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I hope everything is going steady, I've tired myself out of testing things.
I'd love to see a formula for how forest giant strength/hell strength scales your body strength up.

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As far as making priests more desireable as mains and mitigating their use as alts and batteries, I'd suggest taking a look at spells that require linking in order to work. With the need for another priest in close proximity, spells like Life Transfer and Mind Stealer are inconvenient to cast without investing in an(other) alt. With how spread out people usually are, it would be much more convenient to allow two priests to link over distance using their altars, mitigating the need for upgrading two accounts at once. 

 

Possible balancing solutions:

-Require Courier on the altar, the strength of the cast affecting a possible delay

-Chance for altar to break

-Less efficient favor use than linking normally

 

Potential cons:

-Batteries could still exist, and now you wouldn't have to bring it along everywhere!

-Sharing favor could be an undesireable service without compensation of some kind

 

Ignoring for the moment possible arrangements between established priests going back and forth enchanting items for a living, the average player/priest might be more interested in some other reward, such as Channeling skillgain or faster cooldown between sermons. But I am not familiar with playing as a priest so I wouldn't know what priests want (aside from convenience and favor of course).

Edited by Hoseph

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@HosephYo! Mind Stealer and Life Transfer are being reduced from 120 favor to 100, you can cast with a 100 faith priest after the update without a battery.

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