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Retrograde

Priest overhaul testing

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Wurm PvP is and always has been about stacking buffs at it's core. Priests get a ton of buffs and not really any debuffs to speak of other than no-crafting. It's sort of like a "well if you don't priest you're dumb" kinda thing because why not have the extra firepower?

Combat priests can heal themselves much more efficiently than any regular player can, and if you're not priested you have no reliable means of interrupting a healing cast. (shieldbashing was nerfed ages ago and hasn't been useful for that in a long time.)

With spells, you can keep your opponent at range and never enter melee combat range, whilst slowly whittling your enemy down. There's just no reason to ever engage in a fight if you can win one without risk by never actually engaging in combat.

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Which changes made being a priest a requiremewnt? Is it the spells ability to control the field? A priest fighter being all around better than a non priest fighter? 

 

Could have priests more squishy 

 

disable all meditation paths for priests on pvp

heueeuhh

maybe?

Edited by platinumteef
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Oh dear, whereami has a good point. In open field combat priests are just... better. During raids and defending are the only cases where normal players have an advantage, and stuff like that doesn't really happen much. And isn't the most riveting gameplay sitting at a wall repairing constantly.
Yeah it's a problem, that a non-pvper as myself can see. I've seen the complaints, and I have experienced it during testing. Priests are even more powerful now. And being a priest now just feels like another requirement to PvP, just like tome spells and tome passives. The ingredients in the PvP'er sandwich are becoming too much. And needless to say, a lot of people don't enjoy being priests.

When the priest overhaul was released I just thought to myself "Wait what? It's not complete yet! There's too many problems still!" And 7 months later here we are, nothing changed or balanced yet. Oh dear.

Edited by Wiolo
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this list is not all inclusive

1. salves were made a necessity for excelling in pvp, if you don't have them your weapon sucks and you should be ashamed of yourself, they should just be reverted

 

2. priests can do way too much, there is a reason people keep asking for less not more. 99% of everyone i spoke to wanted old school system back with some minor balances (no player gods, think 2013 with mag being the one that can archer because he has combat abilities and not healing, and fo being unable to archer because they had massively powerful support spells) including now they can repair walls, assist an insane amount in raids by building trebs, walls, bashing things etc. the list goes on. they're just the all around best option with barely any negatives at this point

 

3. tangleweave is really dumb, every game i've ever played even with Ultima Online in 97 had the ability to interrupt people casting, HOWEVER, you could always juke that interrupt and bait it out causing the other player to miss it, but tanglweave is just a no-brainer all positive no negative spell to have. even if the person stops casting you've potentially tripled their casting timer regardless

 

4. extra jewerly required for pvp now, nobody likes making tons of more stuff, could tack this one into #1 though

    even if you think its "optional power" its not, to be the best you have to make the best and it was already enough stuff to replace if you died

 

 

tl:dr just revert the entire priest situation back to 2013 and we can start from there

pls like and reply if you agree or disagree thank you have an amazing day everyone

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so salves changing damage type, priests can do too much in PvP, tangleweave being too OP, and jewellery enchants meaning extra work

 

I can pass this on to the devs to discuss, thanks 

 

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

so salves changing damage type, priests can do too much in PvP, tangleweave being too OP, and jewellery enchants meaning extra work

 

I can pass this on to the devs to discuss, thanks 

 

The worst thing is not all that. I believe the worst thing is deeds not being disbandable

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Pretty much every change that has affected PvP since 2010-2013 needs to be on the table for removal. We need to start by removing EVERY change since then and slowly, carefully, and methodically adding the ones back that won't cause problems, whilst tweaking them to ensure balance.

 

See the results of poll below, in which the PvP population almost unanimously agrees on this.

 

Edited by whereami
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1 minute ago, whereami said:

Pretty much every change that has affected PvP since 2013 needs to be on the table for removal. We need to start by removing EVERY change since then and slowly, carefully, and methodically adding the ones back that won't cause problems, whilst tweaking them to ensure balance.

 

See the results of poll below, in which the PvP population almost unanimously agrees on this.

 

Like I've said,. major mechanics changes are not in the plans for this year, maybe some time next year but we arent able to just roll back six years of mechanics like that 

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This isnt a thread to complain about PvP in general, this is a thread to provide specific feedback about the priest and spell balances 

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Sometimes less is more. Now its another requirement.

Edited by Themystrix

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Nice post delete. Here we go again.

 

14 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

we arent able to just roll back six years of mechanics like that 

 

@RetrogradeI can accept the last part of your answer, sure. I understand it's not easy to just roll back years of changes.

But it would be nice to actually get some acknowledgement that there is a problem, or even a pledge to fix it however eventual it may be.

Personally I think there are enough players concerned about this for it to warrant being pushed up significantly on your todo list - Even if that still doesnt mean it happens right away.

 

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16 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

This isnt a thread to complain about PvP in general, this is a thread to provide specific feedback about the priest and spell balances 

 

where can we post those to be taken seriously? because the inability to remove 5x5 war deeds from a kingdom without first just completely breaking the entire kingdom mentally is actually impossible and causes a huge stalemate until everyone just stops playing

its most likely #1 on my list of problems

Edited by platinumteef
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can we just revert everything to 2013 and remove meditating

no tomes

no playermade gods

server reset would be nice too 

 

also put some kind of limitation on how many deeds a kingdom can have based on influence

Edited by Blazer
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On 5/19/2019 at 5:34 AM, Retrograde said:

Could have priests more squishy 

You could, but then you'd be shafting PvE priests :P

 

Also....

 

 

You know, just in case I needed to draw a bigger circle around it...

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You can pretty much draw a circle around every diety and have something to complain about, not just Fo.  (See my response in your thread you just linked).  PvE and PvP both, although I'm sure they will differ under the different circumstances.  No diety is perfect, nor will they ever be.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Wargasm said:

No diety is perfect, nor will they ever be.

 

 

Which is why it was a mistake introducing a multitude of player gods. The more things you have to balance, the harder it is to balance them.

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Are there any issues with unbalanced player gods currently? We did rework them with the priest update to be balanced againsteach other. 

 

While we have stated there will be no major works, we would like to include monthly tweaks and balances to various aspects of the game including priests and PvP, I'm not sure if the tweaks mentioned above are able to get in this months update but I am passing them along. 

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bl is at a huge disadvantage as a kingdom with no light of fo priests

 

scorn just isn't on par and requires not only your friendlies to be in the right position, but also your enemies

 

on top of that, scorn doens't heal a good amount of wounds, and when it does it doesn't prioritize the most wounded target, often ending up with a fight where you have a guy at 10% hp and the scorn heals a dude at ###### 97% hp with 3 1dmg wounds instead lol

 

tldr, scorn sucks compared to lof and the most obvious solution in my mind is not to try and balance scorn to be super healing effective because it also does damage, but to instead add LoF to a player god allowing BL to have it as well

Edited by platinumteef
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BL's zombie milk was supposed to make up for their lack of heals, but it got removed

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Could you guys re-visit the scorn of libila spell? Literally only healing spell for BL and it just doesnt cut it, compared to LoF, it feels like it aint doing anything. Heals are pretty much nonexistant and the dmg aint that fabulous either. Thanks.

 

 

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+1 to doing something about Scorn of Lib. Pretty much requires you to be surrounded by enemies for it to be effective.

And it would be great it if would prioritize bigger wounds or the most wounded players, here's a video that shows it pretty well, instead of healing the guy at dying it heals me for less than 4% health and probably some horse. Even though this was without enemies nearby it should really work better than that.

 

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Any chance of letting all priest being able to dig , mine and cut trees , I don't see it having any advantage of being over powered .

Also let priest destroy or bash walls , fences or any other old item on there deed if owned only .

 

Its a pain trying to remove old fencing or anything when your deity says No........

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I have warned about Scorn being horrid in the past, nobody listened, in fact I even warned about the alignment issue causing people to completely loose their faith, they released it anyway, and all sorts of work and compensation had to be done for a while for that. It gets bothersome when you express concern and it gets unnoticed It's sad because it says something about the communication of the team, unless if there is an entire thread dedicating itself to a single issue. I was very hands on with this thread and some changes and many fixes actually were done because of me.

Retrograde himself said that tweaks and balancing will be done in the future and that includes for priests, so I would like to propose this:
Have Scorn work like LoF, it prioritizes high damage wounds and heals across all targets within the 7x7-11x11 radius. (instead of just picking single targets sometimes due to the finite number of wounds healed) Amount of wounds healed is 3 on every affected target, This makes it less powerful than LoF in healing. But makes up for it in the additional damage dealt. In PvP terms, having Scorn be a spell that needs to be cast with other players nearby in order to heal properly makes no sense at all, since with other players nearby... It would just be interrupted!!! The wording used for Scorn of Libila in this thread almost made it sound a lot like a LoF that required enemies nearby to be cast, but instead I got this, and I actually felt cheated having switched to a BL deity, but I am still happy enough with the spells.

So I'm about to compare my version of Scorn to Light of Fo.
Pros:
Damages enemies nearby a bit, giving it a slight offensive edge.
Consumes 40 favor instead of 60, allowing it to be casted twice without sacrificing to an altar or vesseling.
Cons:
Heals 3 wounds instead of 5, making it much less effective for healing.
Has 50 difficulty instead of 40 which may lower healing quite a bit.

And this is what I expected from Scorn, a way of healing for black light kingdoms, that doesn't feel unfair in it's reduced effectiveness because Fo is the true healer deity. (And BL have mycelium absorbing)

Also I just noticed, why does Libila literally have no reason to be followed? As in not be a priest but be a follower, she has no passives, the absorb ability is tied to kingdom, not her. And the standing on mycelium to gain food bonus is far from a bonus.
At least give her a "higher aptitude for combat" bonus like mag, or even something unique, like a 15/20% characteristic gain increase. Which isn't overwhelming compared to Vynora's global 10% increase in everything.

Edited by Wiolo
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