Priest overhaul testing

[Niki 2,278]

2 hours ago, Budda said:

So after the discussion here and the other thread, is there an actual issue with dodging spell nukes or is it just lack of time getting used to the new stuff (or is it split based on kingdom)?

 

I'm not against adding another form of defense against spell damage beyond the current jewelry enchants, but I think it makes sense that getting extra bonuses against that should come with some sort of downside to avoid it becoming a "this is 100% the best setup" type deal. Not a fan of the idea of having shields just outright block all spell damage or anything like that, since that would just throw priests back into irrelevance in fights.

 

One thought I had is allowing the defensive elemental enchants to be cast on wooden shields that then give you a ~20% chance to block spell damage of that type (instead of outright reducing that damage by a % like the current jewelry enchants do). Downside in this case is obviously having to use a wooden shield, and even then only getting the chance to block one type of elemental spell damage.

There isn't really a good way to dodge or absorb incoming spell damage at the moment. A 104 cast 99ql frost protection necklace gives like 7% DR maybe? Honestly not that great because even wearing one; the spell damage still does tons of damage to you. Do these even work for spell cast damage or is it physical only? Like a lot of things, there is currently a ton of bugs with these new systems.

 

The best method to stay alive in this new pvp meta is to currently out range them by running away. This is a issue though because it's almost as bad as out ranging a dispel. During a push getting dispelled sucks but it isn't the end of the world because we need all our people on a called target. Currently if we push were bound to get spellspammed to death and loose people because the lack of spell DR. SOTG isnt' helping us, drake isn't helping us, scale isn't helping us, playing smart isn't either. Having a full comp of mag, nathan and tosiek priests is almost identical to the old sme meta. If you're not a priest you're useless and will die quick. Why did you make it this way?

 

Elemental Immunity needs to be reworked into a baseline damage DR instead of a 30min duration. PvP lasts hours and 30mins just isn't cutting it in this new meta. The potency of the buff could be halved even. 

 

Meditation transfers should be implemented. During pvp against "mages" running away is all we can do really. Archery should be improved, there is a suggestion about it Budda take a look. The pvp game sucks in it's current iteration. It's not the same game Rolf designed and it looses a lot of the core elements of Wurm PvP.

 

Please do better. Thanks.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Niki

[Quicktor 1,346]

you can already kill people with archery farely easily if you coordinate it, we have that on several videos too btw...

as for the elemental immunity not only being 30min but perma, yeah idc, go for it, sotg will still be top of the line.

 

@Budda

but making shields being able to block spells? really?

you are realizing this is a KvK thing from their side right...?

 

anyway, if this makes it into the game it will show you dont think things through at all, we have offered to give you our point of view numerous times, uncut.

take it or not, your call.

[Threap 401]

1 hour ago, Budda said:

So after the discussion here and the other thread, is there an actual issue with dodging spell nukes or is it just lack of time getting used to the new stuff (or is it split based on kingdom)?

 

I'm not against adding another form of defense against spell damage beyond the current jewelry enchants, but I think it makes sense that getting extra bonuses against that should come with some sort of downside to avoid it becoming a "this is 100% the best setup" type deal. Not a fan of the idea of having shields just outright block all spell damage or anything like that, since that would just throw priests back into irrelevance in fights.

 

One thought I had is allowing the defensive elemental enchants to be cast on wooden shields that then give you a ~20% chance to block spell damage of that type (instead of outright reducing that damage by a % like the current jewelry enchants do). Downside in this case is obviously having to use a wooden shield, and even then only getting the chance to block one type of elemental spell damage.

 

Here are a few of my thoughts, the problem goes beyond damage numbers.

 

Not everyone that wants to pvp wants to be a priest, old system non priests where perfectly viable in a group of mixed priests\non priests. Now due to spells being stronger and spell interrupts, the pvp dynamic has changed to where you have a significantly larger advantage if everyone on your team is a priest. An example of why:- In the last pvp fight i was interrupted practically every time I tried to cast scorn to get a heal off. This is because virtually everyone on the enemy side is a priest. This is the biggest problem with the patch not the actual damage they do, the patch caused a huge shift in the pvp play style. Overall I hate the new style, because I really don't enjoy being a priest 24/7, with no ability to imp items.

 

Behind that there are other bigger problems that need to be fixed, mainly overall damage is too high. This is due to stacking of warbonus, priests with warrior damage bonus, true strike spam and the fact that spells bypass the previous 10 player melee limit. This brings about a zerg type game play, where one group charges in a zerg to try and get a kill on 1 player where some people melee and some cast spells. The result is even a very strong account can die before a healing spell gets off, this makes healing spells near worthless v a 15+ player group and further encourages players to play damage based priests which further encourages the zerg game play style.

If it was purely up to me this is what i would do at this point.

 

1. Delete warbonus damage, maybe keep CR bonus or just delete it entirely. Its crap because a reasonably  large amount of effort gets a fairly large bonus 30% damage and CR that stacks with mag bonus. This means if there were smaller PMKs that pvp they would likely never be able to keep the bonus up and be at a huge disadvantage. Plus this is the main reason why the time to kill a player is so short right now.

 

2. TrueStrike has been complained about endlessly by most people on both sides for years, yet it still remains. Make it a CR bonus instead or maybe a 15% damage bonus an hour that does not stack with warrior bonus, whatever it becomes the current incarnation needs to go, getting hit for 20+ damage from 1 hit, when most of the 15 people attacking you have the spell makes for a crap experience. it was fine years ago when it was hard to get tombs and\or source was harder to get, now it needs to be changed.

 

3. With the healing resistance change to prevent endless spamming of heals, I see little point in the aoe healing spells having such a large cast time, when they also have a long cooldown as well, as i said above they are near useless currently. I see no reason to make LOF and Scorn instant cast or <5 second cast. It needs to be short enough so it can be cast without players having to stop moving. Other heals being faster might also make them useful, 3-5 seconds range for small heals, so they can be cast on other moving players without them running out of range. Similarly spells like heal are useless at 29 second cast time. Nobody will ever get off a 29 second cast in a fight, healing resistance takes care of it being spammed so it does not need a long cast time any more.

 

Other things I would tweak after playing several fights with the above changes.

 

Block and parry have built in cooldowns, so you cant block,parry everything which is good, however because of this it makes the current antigank code which gives +CR based on the number of attackers virtually useless. This whole system needs a rework. If two players with 90 FS, Shield and weapon skill fight a 1 on 1, they might hit once every 30 seconds if they are lucky which is way too few times, on the other end of the spectrum a player getting ganked by 15 players probably blocks\parries 4-5 times before they die in some cases, which again sucks. The rework needs to allow a 1 on 1 where the players actually hit each other before running out of stam and also still actually block\parry a decent amount v 15 people.

 

Consider removing all priest penalties on pvp servers, so everyone gets best of both worlds if they choose to play on a pvp server.

 

 

 

 

[Budda 2,669]

14 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

but making shields being able to block spells? really?

you are realizing this is a KvK thing from their side right...?

 

This is why I posted asking for more input, I'm not just throwing in changes for the hell of it.

[Gladiator 968]

    Ok here's the thing. A priest has always been more powerful than a non-priest. This has been the case ever since priests were a thing. Now, having said that, @Budda , remember that there is only one kingdom pushing for these changes, and that is TC. Why might you ask? Because a majority of them went for being a healing priest. What? You thought they want to change imbalance? Nope. There is no imbalance, the spells do not need further nerfing. If you look at the last few fights where TC got completely wiped, it was not because of spells. It was because of their poor gameplay. Yet they want to push their agenda to try to win a different way. Check this video out from the 3rd-4th where TC get's destroyed in melee and spells are barely used here and there (mostly pillars that can be dispelled easily on any tile) : 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Gladiator

[Niki 2,278]

1 minute ago, Budda said:

 

This is why I posted asking for more input, I'm not just throwing in changes for the hell of it.

Stuff like this wouldn't be a issue if you had beta testers for large context patches such as this. You know people who actually pvp. No bias either, all those people would want would be fair play. Food for thought.

[Threap 401]

2 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

    Ok here's the thing. A priest has always been more powerful than a non-priest. This has been the case ever since priests were a thing. Now, having said that, @Budda , remember that there is only one kingdom pushing for these changes, and that is TC. Why might you ask? Because a majority of them went for being a healing priest. What? You thought they want to change imbalance? Nope. There is no imbalance, the spells do not need further nerfing. If you look at the last few fights where TC got completely wiped, it was not because of spells. It was because of their poor gameplay. Yet they want to push their agenda to try to win a different way. Check this video out from the 3rd-4th where TC get's destroyed in melee and spells are barely used here and there (mostly pillars) : 

 

 

We actually have more Mag/Nathan than healer priests so you are wrong on that point, we just have many non priests.

 

[Budda 2,669]

8 minutes ago, Niki said:

Stuff like this wouldn't be a issue if you had beta testers for large context patches such as this. You know people who actually pvp. No bias either, all those people would want would be fair play. Food for thought.

 

If only we put up threads months beforehand with open invites for everyone to come test and give feedback hmmm.

[Gladiator 968]

in any case, you shouldn't nerf a system just because one single kingdom demands it. That's not how it works , expecially since the only other kingdom is in full favor of keeping the system as is. What makes their opinion more important than ours? Nothing. 

[Wargasm 1,926]

11 minutes ago, Niki said:

Stuff like this wouldn't be a issue if you had beta testers for large context patches such as this. You know people who actually pvp. No bias either, all those people would want would be fair play. Food for thought.

 

Those of us that went to the test server, tested and gave feedback, were mostly just screwing around doing 1v1's or taking turns throwing fireballs at each other to test damage.

 

There is no way to "Test" a 20v20 WL recharge.

[_Tuanta_ 7]

Just now, Gladiator said:

in any case, you shouldn't nerf a system just because one single kingdom demands it. That's not how it works , expecially since the only other kingdom is in full favor of keeping the system as is. What makes their opinion more important than ours? Nothing. 

this is an open discussion.... nothing has been changed. nor have they said anything about our opinion meaning anything more then yours. please stop with the childish attitude geez.

[Gladiator 968]

2 minutes ago, _Tuanta_ said:

this is an open discussion.... nothing has been changed. nor have they said anything about our opinion meaning anything more then yours. please stop with the childish attitude geez.

Nah dude, they nerfed the spells once just because mclovin demanded it on this thread. You're the child here if you think im letting this blocking thing go by without saying its complete BS

[Wargasm 1,926]

Watch the video Budda.  Look at the deaths.   These are not multi-boxing players that are queuing simultaneous fireballs to 100-0 TC players in 15 seconds.

 

People with 2h weapons being targeted by 6 people, and that person waiting until 30% to switch to a shield is not a problem with spells.

 

People being targeted and deciding in the middle of a fight that it's a good time to work on their backstroke is not a problem with spells.

 

People being lost in the woods is not a problem with spells.

 

The list goes on....

[Niki 2,278]

9 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

If only we put up threads months beforehand with open invites for everyone to come test and give feedback hmmm.

The way you guys do it doesn't work, it was great for testing spells individually but not on a grand scale. Incentives would've helped I think.

[Niki 2,278]

8 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

Those of us that went to the test server, tested and gave feedback, were mostly just screwing around doing 1v1's or taking turns throwing fireballs at each other to test damage.

 

There is no way to "Test" a 20v20 WL recharge.

Sure there is, just the lack of a clever idea. Read above.

[Wargasm 1,926]

Your kingdom could easily pull a 5v5 or even a 10v10 without asking the enemy kingdoms to come participate.   You chose not to.

 

TC went to great lengths to test the catapult/trebuchet/battering ram changes on the test server, I'm very surprised that they didn't do the same thing for the priest overhaul update.

[Threap 401]

5 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

Watch the video Budda.  Look at the deaths.   These are not multi-boxing players that are queuing simultaneous fireballs to 100-0 TC players in 15 seconds.

 

People with 2h weapons being targeted by 6 people, and that person waiting until 30% to switch to a shield is not a problem with spells.

 

People being targeted and deciding in the middle of a fight that it's a good time to work on their backstroke is not a problem with spells.

 

People being lost in the woods is not a problem with spells.

 

The list goes on....

 

So you are saying you would still win even if spell casting was reverted, as your winning is nothing to do with spell casting patch? So why are you so against it being changed I wonder.....

[Threap 401]

1 minute ago, Wargasm said:

Your kingdom could easily pull a 5v5 or even a 10v10 without asking the enemy kingdoms to come participate.   You chose not to.

 

TC went to great lengths to test the catapult/trebuchet/battering ram changes on the test server, I'm very surprised that they didn't do the same thing for the priest overhaul update.

 

I tested a few times with Xallo as it happens, however the problems with spells are how they add to or compound existing problems. I personally think the damage right now is ok, IF all the other crap I listed in my post was fixed.

[Wargasm 1,926]

5 minutes ago, Threap said:

So you are saying you would still win even if spell casting was reverted, as your winning is nothing to do with spell casting patch? So why are you so against it being changed I wonder.....

 

Because as far as I am concerned, very little changed in the priest update.  Priests were OP before the priest overhaul update when compared to non-priests.  Utility from just being able to heal yourself, or oakshell your horse or even oakshell yourself and run away "naked" at vastly superior speed are scale-tipping advantages.  

 

@platinumteef- show them your 1v5 against LoA where you *almost* wiped 5 non-priests from standing there healing yourself.

[Dadamage 121]

How do you stop melee attack you use a shield,

 

How do you stop archery you use a shield,

 

How do you stop direct spell attacks you can,t unless you walk up to them from 20 tiles away and shield bash if it work with a 30sec cool down.........nope

I think shields should stop direct attacks only but of course you have to face the right way as for aoe you just walk off them.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

1 hour ago, Niki said:

Currently if we push were bound to get spellspammed to death and loose people because the lack of spell DR.

Show a video of where this happened. There's plenty of videos out there to choose from. Would you like to be provided with the videos from the last 3 fights so you can check?

 

8 minutes ago, Dadamage said:

I think shields should stop direct attacks only but of course you have to face the right way as for aoe you just walk off them.

if shields block spells the way they block arrows, then spells would be useless. A priest can't fling a spell every 5 seconds like a bow does. You also can't put hundreds of spells on your inventory bags and quivers. If you makes spells blockable by shields, then mind as well revert the priest update and make damage spells useless again.

[Wargasm 1,926]

1 minute ago, Angelklaine said:

Show a video of where this happened. There's plenty of videos out there to choose from. Would you like to be provided with the videos from the last 3 fights so you can check?

 

I've been waiting for an answer to this for the last 5 pages or so....

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

personally i think the counter should be casting the exact same spell on the person thats casting it on you and you get in a energy clash that instantly kills whoever fails a channeling check, its not balanced or anything but i'd like to larp as gohan while pvping

 

i can get my kingdom mates in here to argue about how it must be changed to this if you'd like

Edited February 12, 2019 by Oblivionnreaver

[Rhianna 892]

57 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

in any case, you shouldn't not nerf a system just because one single kingdom demands it.

 

ftfy

 

main point being is that in reality there are only 2 kingdoms pvping on Chaos so both sides points need to be considered not just because one side is the loudest or have more people to spam support for it. Not that it matters that much to me, I left Chaos 4 weeks ago because of the increasing toxicity on both sides and kvking in suggestion threads.

 

The above is bad for the health of Chaos and pvp in general if all the devs see is kvk arguments all the time.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Rhianna

[Dadamage 121]

18 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

 

 

if shields block spells the way they block arrows, then spells would be useless. A priest can't fling a spell every 5 seconds like a bow does. You also can't put hundreds of spells on your inventory bags and quivers. If you makes spells blockable by shields, then mind as well revert the priest update and make damage spells useless again.

Not every 5 seconds every 10 seconds with no way to block,

thank you for agreeing that spells are powerful now because you have no way to block