Priest overhaul testing

[Mclavin 3,704]

Actually they missed the mark on spell spam and counter heals, but it's ok if you disagree we can come back in 6 months when the hype around having more priests balances out and you can see.

And just because something goes from being useless to useful doesn't mark that as a good change, i have over 100 hours testing on this system so post up and put some facts behind opinions, this is test board not opinion board.

Oh and LOF being 15 seconds is defo wrong, needs to go back down to 10 seconds @Sinduskespecially with Tangle weave.
Small things like this in big combat are the things that need tweaking, overall i love the changes.

Might want to look at the resistances and spell cool down too, when I first touched this system it felt a lot more heavy on what you could cast and when, you'd get those big spells hitting but long cool downs. 
Resistances were pretty heavy too, so spell spam wasn't really as hard, in the tests I done I'm taking away half health with 2 spells with back to back casting no cd, i think this is missing the mark of what you set out for.

Tangle weave could probably have more of a longer Cool down between successfully disrupting a cast, making your Tangle weaves count a bit better and making the more important high heal/attack casts the focus.
I'd go as far as 30 seconds to 60 seconds for this, if cool downs on attacking spells were also longer. 
Then you got the fact that you disrupt a spell but they just recast right away? There should be at least a 10 second Cool down on recasting once disrupted in any tree that shares a CD with.
 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mclavin

[Sn00 1,005]

Having 70 Soul Streght is a strange meta and kinda meh ?

[Quicktor 1,348]

in my opinion the changes are refreshing and are working good, its a matter of getting used to it, nothing more

LoF being 15 seconds is about the only thing i could agree with being too much, but other than that i dont see a single problem

 

we had a even fight in numbers recently and were able to outplay our enemy with inferior gear sets, i like, why wouldnt i

 

oh sorry, i gave my opinion on things, silly me pff

[Mclavin 3,704]

When it comes to casting spells, why is leather inferior when you get 30%bonus. You literally get three people, two cast fire heart one casts inferno, the target is 50-60% in the maximum space of 20-30 seconds, I'm happy to make step by step videos if this somehow can't be comprehended. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mclavin

[Sn00 1,005]

Since spells ignore armor now, no armor is inferior or superior when it comes to spell damage.

[platinumteef 2,202]

1 hour ago, Mclavin said:

When it comes to casting spells, why is leather inferior when you get 30%bonus. You literally get three people, two cast fire heart one casts inferno, the target is 50-60% in the maximum space of 20-30 seconds, I'm happy to make step by step videos if this somehow can't be comprehended. 

 

 

they lost 40% hp in 30 seconds and thats considered broken? have you heard of truestrike and huge axes?

[Mclavin 3,704]

I have, truestrike useally follows by the words "broken, nerf" ?

 

We can make a list of what's broken, doesn't make it not broken, lol. Adds to my point, we didn't need truestrike flying at us with 13 tile range, I've once gone a whole two minutes getting parried to even land my truestrike, 90 huge axe, pretty sure with leather and decent channeling in not going to fail the cast, not that there isn't another four priests ready to cast if I do tho. Loool

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mclavin

[Sn00 1,005]

Not to speak of that with the current spells , if you set it up already you can 1 shot someone strong. 
That seems kinda broken to me, not to speak of that spells never miss / parries / blocks as long as you succeed the cast.

 

Have 10 people cast a variety of damage spells over and over is one of the best tactics now. It's very broken.

Also, I dislike how priest were the best choice for PvP before, they are even better now and that's a design philosophy that I really dislike.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Sn00

[platinumteef 2,202]

3 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

I have, truestrike useally follows by the words "broken, nerf" ?

 

We can make a list of what's broken, doesn't make it not broken, lol. Adds to my point, we didn't need truestrike flying at us with 13 tile range, I've once gone a whole two minutes getting parried to even land my truestrike, 90 huge axe, pretty sure with leather and decent channeling in not going to fail the cast, not that there isn't another four priests ready to cast if I do tho. Loool

 

3 people with truestrike and huge axes are going to kill a person in under 30 seconds, whilst being on top of them the whole time. Spells taking someone down to 60% in 30 seconds while holding those casters back during the cast time isn't broken

[platinumteef 2,202]

1 minute ago, Sn00 said:

Not to speak of that with the current spells , if you set it up already you can 1 shot someone strong. 
That seems kinda broken to me, not to speak of that spells never miss / parries / blocks as long as you succeed the cast.

 

Have 10 people cast a variety of damage spells over and over is one of the best tactics now. It's very broken.

 

post a video of you one shotting someone with resistances, and that'll prove resistances aren't working properly and can be looked at

p simple am i right

 

 

[Sn00 1,005]

1 minute ago, platinumteef said:

 

post a video of you one shotting someone with resistances, and that'll prove resistances aren't working properly and can be looked at

p simple am i right

 

 

What about the rest of my points?

[Mclavin 3,704]

30 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

3 people with truestrike and huge axes are going to kill a person in under 30 seconds, whilst being on top of them the whole time. Spells taking someone down to 60% in 30 seconds while holding those casters back during the cast time isn't broken

Three people with true strike never killed me with Nothing but true strike, factor in you have to actually hit before you become over extended and back away, something a caster doesn't have to worry about.
Factor in, you cast fire heartto get the target into hurting and have another guy line up a inferno whilst everybody rushes, those who can true strike do, your argument is null and invalid. 
It's too effective without little work, keeping 3 casters back casting 50% not 40 of the damage is really easy since only 10(?) people can only enter melee on one target anyway? I'm talking about the larger fighters here.

There is too much damage flying around, that's a fact. 
LOF being 15 seconds, too long.
Maybe extend the heal range too of Heal and Cures. 
I've found a broken meta that will come to light soon as well, but i want to test it in a live scenario before complaining.

You just said true strike is broken too, then mentioned spells, are you listing whats broken or you trying to make a comparison to something that is broken making what you're defending somehow Not broken? Cause that's not a good hill to die on Lol.

Devs said they would tweak, I've put forward my opinion on that and ofc there will be counter opinions, but @Sinduskas Mondain is happy to mention (but not upload) we do have videos of the broken damage being flung around which costs self-regenerating favour, not costly karma (another comparison)
 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mclavin

[Quicktor 1,348]

i think you are just missing that the meta has shifted, given that you are posting and bringing up all the "wrong stuff" and "resistances being broken" after the recent fight...

what i saw was that the side that is now yelling to change how spells work and to lower the damage threshhold or higher the resistances, wasnt commiting to the fight and rather had 2-3 people in the back on carts and another group spamming spells from the back while we used that to our advantage

 

i think you can find gameplay aspects seemingly being "broken" in any kind of situation if you just evaluate everything from one side

 

[Niki 2,278]

This game is harry potter simulator now. If you're not a priest you're not helping the group basically. Sindusk what were you thinking?

 

"The meta has shifted" This isn't the same game anymore, I wouldn't be surprised to see people not interested in this harry potter simulator to just flat out quit the game or go back to freedom. Doesn't make the update fair for both styles of combat though. Body strength, stam, fight skill, weapon skills, shields etc - means little to nothing now. @Quicktor

 

Spell spamming is extremely broken, there isn't enough diminishing returns at all. You can only wear so much jewelry to counter it. A 50 channeling priest with 100 faith can cast any number of spells and basically take you down to half health. Now times that by 20 or however many priests WU has. The current pvp meta involves tons of enemy priests doing every damage spell they can on you "spell spamming." Leather has a 30% casting bonus and it's better than drake. Drake seems to have no resistance to magic spells and I think it should. Scale should also. They should also have the casting bonus as leather. Or it should be removed on leather.

 

I consider this update a big failure of game design taking away what pvp started with; melee combat. If you're melee and not a priest you're going to die basically. You will be a burden on your group, they will try to keep you alive possibly. However what will likely happen is they might over extend like you did trying to heal you or taunt and probably die. That's dumb. It's also predictable.

 

I propose a fix where you can only hit a enemy if you succeed in going higher in power than previous. A 50 power strength spell should say start at 5 damage. If your kingdom just has 50 channeling 70 faith spell casters, them overlapping spells of the same power will do no damage. So you would need higher channeling priests. Think of it like enchanting a item. You blanket cast for 30 power, try again and hit a 90. The less it takes to increase a power the more damage it will do. Diminishing returns per enemy player should be added as well. If I got hit from drain health, I should be resistant for at least 10mins this means any enemy casting drain health on me is wasting favor and they need to use their brains and plan it out. This prevents the abuse of a kingdom of priests just spell spamming, melee shouldn't be trash like it is now.

 

I would also add that body strength, soul depth or some other characteristic where you can be resistant from spells to make this even more fair like.

 

 

As stated LoF needs some quality of life improvements, it's cast takes to long, and it's cooldown is too long, the favor should be lowered a tad also to line up with damage spell favor cost, 40 favor i'd say.

 

 

 

[Roccandil 959]

Has Path of Power made an appearance at all?

[Angelklaine 4,266]

If the spell changes in fact were to be a force to be reckoned with as it is allged, then what is stopping the other side from using spells as well? I do agree that lof should be brought back to 10 seconds as 15 is too much for a group moving. It ties up your healer longer than it should on a combat situation.

 

As for the spells, I simply am not seeing this massive overpowered damage output. Sure, when mixed with true strike of course. But thats the whole point. You get hit with 4 spells and 2 true strikes, its understandable to get blown out of your adidas. Thats 6 people on you doing simultaneous high damage hits. Its pretty much the sameas getting true striked by a boatfull of credit card warriors back when tomes werent as prevalent. 

 

All I see with the new changes was that the gap created by p2w has been narrowed. Anything that lowers the price tag to entry into pvp is a good change.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Angelklaine

[Gladiator 968]

26 minutes ago, Niki said:

This game is harry potter simulator now. If you're not a priest you're not helping the group basically.

I'm not a priest and i did quite a lot the last fight. Dehorsed people, picked up drakesets, wrecked people with truestrikes. You're only useless if you think you're useless

[Mclavin 3,704]

If you didn't see 50% being a massive damage output inside of 20 seconds, guaranteed, you wasn't fighting and gladiator was using your account again.

Considering the Gap between leather and drake was narrowed with the armour changes, not the priest changes, because spells ignore armour, you have zero reason to mention if i was in cloth or plate, you forget that right?
Your friend mentioned true strikes, nobody else, the comparison was comparing something broken with something broken, not a smart move as I've already shown.

Like I said, your victory has nothing to do with our calls here. We're the group that got body stats nerfed, do you know how strong dadd should be right now? Warrior? Duyu? Sulfoce, the other 10 players i can list?
LOF originally nerfed, locate nerfed, resistances brought in, pushed for SOTG nerf, all of this affected TC the most and it was TC who was calling for it. Armour changes whilst owning all the drake and scale? TC. 
Your little P2W gap was closed by TC, not spells, what are you on about?
We're pushing for Hota changes, who owns hota? TC. It seems to me that TC are always willing to take the bad deal for the better of the game, if we were against balance, you wouldn't even have armour changes.
We'd be karmaing into our deeds still every time you popped one to raid. 

Now, TC are saying spells are infact missing what I know Sindusk was aiming for. He wasn't aiming for 50% with 3 casters within 30 seconds, thats a fact, if he was let him state so right now. @Sindusk
We don't need bias opinions, I've dropped my list of what TC hs brought to the table, why would we flip it over spells right now? as you said, we can do the excact same and we will be, but that isn't in the interest of a better game is it angel?

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mclavin

[Mclavin 3,704]

17 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

I'm not a priest and i did quite a lot the last fight. Dehorsed people, picked up drakesets, wrecked people with truestrikes. You're only useless if you think you're useless

Null point, you can do that whilst being a priest and have extra ability. Niki stands correct. Why wouldn't you be a priest with the things you just listed. 
You just missed out on extra damage for no reason. Oh hellfang likes to build i guess.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mclavin

[Roccandil 959]

Since Path of Power renders a player immune to spells for half an hour, and is thus (ostensibly) an awesome counter to priest/spell spam, seems like one balance issue is that everyone's locked into SotG and can't easily swap to PoP.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to blame the new spell system for that.

[Gladiator 968]

Just now, Roccandil said:

Since Path of Power renders a player immune to spells for half an hour, and is thus (ostensibly) an awesome counter to priest/spell spam, seems like one balance issue is that everyone's locked into SotG and can't easily swap to PoP.

it can be dispelled by other players, its useless

[Kabill 265]

I think something y'all are purposely overlooking is the fact that while the update made priests not feel like alts, it made it so there's no reason for pvpers not to be priests. At this point crafters are the new alts. I know some you nerds will jump on this saying you're still not a priest but that doesn't change the simple fact that priests are 100% better for PvP with no drawback. 

 

I was a priest long before the update, so I'm not upset that I have to become one now to keep up or anything, just think there needs to be a reason for pvpers not to priest up. 

[Mclavin 3,704]

1 minute ago, Roccandil said:

Since Path of Power renders a player immune to spells for half an hour, and is thus (ostensibly) an awesome counter to priest/spell spam, seems like one balance issue is that everyone's locked into SotG and can't easily swap to PoP.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to blame the new spell system for that.

that's great for 30 minutes of the whole day but the fight lasted over an hour so this is null and you end up weaker to the other 50% of pvp which is melee. 

[Niki 2,278]

3 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

Since Path of Power renders a player immune to spells for half an hour, and is thus (ostensibly) an awesome counter to priest/spell spam, seems like one balance issue is that everyone's locked into SotG and can't easily swap to PoP.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to blame the new spell system for that.

They need to make it a passive and undispellable. Meditation rework needs to come next, no one wants to switch and spend half a year when the devs could just change it again in 3 months.

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

3 hours ago, Quicktor said:

i think you are just missing that the meta has shifted, given that you are posting and bringing up all the "wrong stuff" and "resistances being broken" after the recent fight...

what i saw was that the side that is now yelling to change how spells work and to lower the damage threshhold or higher the resistances, wasnt commiting to the fight and rather had 2-3 people in the back on carts and another group spamming spells from the back while we used that to our advantage

 

i think you can find gameplay aspects seemingly being "broken" in any kind of situation if you just evaluate everything from one side

 

 

1 hour ago, Niki said:

This game is harry potter simulator now. If you're not a priest you're not helping the group basically. Sindusk what were you thinking?

 

"The meta has shifted" This isn't the same game anymore, I wouldn't be surprised to see people not interested in this harry potter simulator to just flat out quit the game or go back to freedom. Doesn't make the update fair for both styles of combat though. Body strength, stam, fight skill, weapon skills, shields etc - means little to nothing now. @Quicktor

 

Spell spamming is extremely broken, there isn't enough diminishing returns at all. You can only wear so much jewelry to counter it. A 50 channeling priest with 100 faith can cast any number of spells and basically take you down to half health. N

 

Quicktor, that's some very fair assessment of some weak spots that don't relate to spells being broken, yet niki's point is also valid.  The nature of pvp has completely shifted in an odd way game theory wise into some mage type spell wars vs priests being what i'd thought would be a critical assist in battle to damge or heal but not the the Raison de Etre'.  I have priests to pvp with cause why forgo the extra abilities in combat yet to me in game theory should not dominate but merely augment.  I'm not talking kvk sides, as you can see i have no trouble agreeing with enemy kingdom when they make valid points even if not in our favor.  truth is truth of sorts.  I feel likewise about karma spells now being so ubiquitous you see the unintended nature of the strength of them.  

 

sometimes elements don't elevate to seeming a problem until they are utilized more.  I think about the dirt spell, many see no use for it but if spammed enmasse as it has been done on elevation and chaos, to either remove or create dirt..mostly the removal part, it can become a problem and was looked at some time ago...dirt ffs.  most people in wurm outisde of pvp don't even realize the spell is there or use it let alone think of it as a strong spell.  

 

I know it's easy to disagree and only want get into kvk rhetoric or speak only from the advantage of self interest, yet i try to look past that and ask others to do the same for more balance that we are continually trying to achieve.   I believe sindusk himself said this was an initial offering with expected tweaks along the way as needed.  It takes playing it out some to see the patterns highlight.  signing out from the salt free zone desk