Priest overhaul testing

[kochinac 1,395]

10 hours ago, Nocturnes said:

 

Is there a list what mobs is counted as "monsters"?

A list of categories of exact creatures would be most welcome? On what exactly demises work, on what exactly silver weapons give +10% dmg, etc

[Wiolo 219]

Here's a list of hunter mobs... https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Hunter_mob

Here's a makeshift list that I made of monsters mobs.

Scorpions, Trolls, Lava fiends, Hell Scorpius, Sea Serpent, Rift ogre, Rift ogre mage, Rift Jackal, RIft Summoner, Warmaster, Goblins, Sharks.

That's all the stuff I know of that count as monsters. No idea how many Valrei Creatures have the monster tag. But that doesn't matter cause they attack based off of kingdom.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Wiolo

[Sindusk 2,448]

On 11/26/2018 at 1:54 PM, Wiolo said:

Does bloodthirst still deal 33% more damage with this change? on top of the fact that it occasionally venom no-glances enemies.

Yes, every attack with Bloodthirst still deals the 33% more damage. The infection wounds are a bonus on top of what already existed.

 

On 11/26/2018 at 3:15 PM, Roccandil said:

 

Does this also apply to bows with BT? If so, ouch!

 

I still say we need this:

 

- Don't let BT stack with enchanted arrows;

- Allow using other weapon enchants on bows (like Venom, at least), also not stacking with enchanted arrows.

 

I do like the WA changes! I like Purge, if only because I won't feel like I have to stack a bunch of useless spells (like Morning Fog and what have you) before going into combat.

 

Now, however, I kinda wish there was a "Magic Shell" spell, that would provide immunity from being purged to one magic spell effect (and only allow that one beneficial spell effect, so it would be a "purge-all-but-one"). That way you could either stack a bunch of spell effects, but risk having them purged in one go, or lock in a single effect for the duration of the Magic Shell.

 

Oh, and I like the healing buffs too; that feels "right".

The new BT changes do not apply to bows. Bows will function identically to how they did before with Bloodthirst. The magic shell idea is something interesting, but it's kind of exactly what we wanted to avoid. There's consideration for making it so that Purge does not dispel karma effects, and the normal Dispel spell would need to be used to remove them after a Purge. It's a new spell so we'll likely still tweak it a bit, whether that be cast time, cooldown, favor cost, or mechanics in general. It remains to be seen. Feedback is valuable for that process.

 

22 hours ago, Threap said:

Can you confirm the attack speed? Previously there was a minimum weapon speed of 3 seconds. So Small weapons that were made of glimmer or had Woa cast didnt drop below 3 seconds.

 

 Can you explain how this differs from Rotten Touch? is the faster ticking only from BT?

 

Edit

how will infected woud stack etc? it might only ever tick once in a fight, if someone has a 20-30 RT wound and it instant kills them on the first tick that might not be good. Here is a fight from yesterday, you can see most of the times between the first few kills are pretty short as people get focused.

 

[20:49:03] Erinyesthegreat slain by Pedro, Garrettwademan, Icenrns, Gildi, Haxd
[20:49:33] Gildi slain by Edlardo, Warhead, Spyte, Votip, Tedzogh, Jaycz
[20:51:24] Votip slain by Garrettwademan, Pedro, Icenrns, Malevolence, Haxd
[20:51:52] Haxd slain by Edlardo, Warhead, Spyte, Votip, Tedzogh, Jaycz
[20:52:40] Warhead slain by Pedro, Garrettwademan, Maximillian, Icenrns, Gildi, Malevolence, Haxd
[20:56:14] Edlardo slain by Garrettwademan, Pedro, Maximillian, Icenrns, Malevolence
[20:57:08] Icenrns slain by Nicedreams, Edlardo, Warhead, Tedzogh, Spyte, Jaycz
[21:01:55] Nicedreams slain by Pedro, Garrettwademan, Maximillian, Malevolence, Haxd
[21:03:11] Malevolence slain by Nicedreams, Spyte, Tedzogh, Jaycz
[21:04:29] Jaycz slain by Pedro, Garrettwademan, Maximillian, Malevolence, Gildi, Haxd

While attack speed is capped to 3 seconds, the "base" speed can be lower. This base speed is what's calculated with all the effects, such as web armour, then it gets capped after all effects are in place.

 

The infection wounds are different from infection... "status?" - This is one of those design areas that definitely needs clarification and possibly a rename of the mechanic. For example, we have poison "wounds" and poison "mechanic" which are different things. You can have a bruise with poison or infection. You can have a poison wound without poison status on it. You can have infection wounds without infection status on it. These are really difficult to convey, whether it be in a forum like this or in-game where it actually matters. When you get hit by an RT weapon, the only way you know that the wound is infected is to watch the combat log and recognize which area they hit. This whole thing has room for a lot of improvement.

 

Rant aside, the infection wound differs from the infection "status" that is applied by RT because it actually changes the wound type. This changes how it interacts with armour and (by proxy) ignores glance rates. This gives BT a DPS increase based on the glance rate of the opponent. Alongside the significant damage increase, this makes BT a form of hybrid between Venom and the elemental enchants, as well as offering more versatility. It's hard to say exactly where BT will end up, but from my own perspective I believe 10k BT is the highest damage, highest versatility enchant for damage out there. The others are faster and mildly comparable, but BT offers a whole new way to fight, where you can wear down the opponent over time.

 

While it's true that in PvP most players just zerg down a single target, when you scale down the fight sizes to smaller skirmishes such as 1v1 and 2v2, the infection wounds become way more valuable for obvious reasons. Landing an infected wound on a high shield skill target could be the difference between winning and losing the fight.

 

In the end, time will tell how valuable it is. It now has its own identity separate from the rest of weapon enchants, and that was the goal with the change.

 

22 hours ago, Bloodscythe said:

and does this apply to same toon epic priest status, conceivably getting 2-3 deity transfer options?

I believe we'll be targeting the ability for players to switch their deity on both Freedom and Epic clusters - thus 2 resets.

 

18 hours ago, Noizhead said:

please fix dispel

 

thanks

Can you elaborate on what's wrong with Dispel in it's current form? I believe I read something a long time ago posted in this thread regarding dispel, shattering, and similar... but it's buried so far back that I can't find it or recall the specifics.

 

12 hours ago, Wiolo said:

Something that concerns me that I would like to point out. Scorn of Libila heals monster mobs because they aren't hostile to Libila. Creating possible opportunities for grief, if it were to heal all rift humanoids around who count as monsters, I know animal ignore makes rift beasts friendly because they got paws and what not. I'd like to see something be done about this. 
Not only so that the spell could be more effective and damage enemies that I WANT to be damaged, but also to prevent healing griefing through this spell.

That's a bug and will definitely be fixed. Thanks for testing and reporting that!

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

2 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

Can you elaborate on what's wrong with Dispel in it's current form? I believe I read something a long time ago posted in this thread regarding dispel, shattering, and similar... but it's buried so far back that I can't find it or recall the specifics.

add the ability to choose what to dispel

[Roccandil 959]

9 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

add the ability to choose what to dispel

 

This. Right now, for instance, in order to dispel FB on a weapon, I'd have to first dispel the demise enchant, then dispel Nimbleness (or WoA), and finally I'd be able to dispel the damage enchant.

 

Given how much this patch changes damage enchants, it would be hugely helpful if we could choose which enchant to dispel. That way I could customize weapons without blowing away perfectly good Nimbleness enchants.

[Roccandil 959]

16 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

The infection wounds are different from infection... "status?" - This is one of those design areas that definitely needs clarification and possibly a rename of the mechanic.

 

Will these infection wounds work on uniques?

[Roccandil 959]

17 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

The magic shell idea is something interesting, but it's kind of exactly what we wanted to avoid.

 

With Purge in existence, a magic shell would provide an interesting choice, as well as make spells like Oakshell more viable. With Purge, I can't see Oakshell being used at all on humans, since Purge is guaranteed to remove your armor.

 

Maybe Oakshell should just work, regardless of what you're wearing, and the game will choose the best armor (Oakshell, or your real armor) as needed? That way Purge would hurt, but not be so crippling you'd never use Oakshell.

 

17 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

 

There's consideration for making it so that Purge does not dispel karma effects, and the normal Dispel spell would need to be used to remove them after a Purge.

 

That sounds interesting. I also think it would be interesting if Purge removed -all- priest spell effects, both good and bad.

[Rhianna 892]

With all this talk about dispel and other new spells that allow dispelling karma spells more easily has there been any discussion about increasing the amount of source available in game just because it is so hard to find any now?

 

Because if your karma spells are more easily dispelled then people will run out of source way too quickly making the higher karma spells basically unused in pvp.

 

Or am I reading things wrong and it wont be as easy to do this?

 

There has been so much discussion in this thread its hard to keep up with everything.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Rhianna

[Ostentatio 1,970]

To possibly clarify a problem people have with dispel:

 

Dispelling an item removes the enchantment at the top of a fairly arbitrarily-ordered list. So, let's say you have a weapon with four spell enchantments and a rune on it, and you need to dispel the 3rd spell in the list to replace it with something else (e.g. replacing Bloodthirst with Venom); that means you have to dispel the first two in the list beforehand, which might consist of a 104 enchantment and an expensive room. This isn't a great situation!

 

Compounding this problem is the fact that lower-power enchantments give a greater bonus to subsequent enchantments. For instance, casting over a theoretical 0 power enchantment gives a bonus of, I believe, +5 cast power, whereas casting over a 100 power enchantment gives you +0. So, to get the best enchantments, you're encouraged to cast a low-power enchantment followed by high-power, which requires dispelling in order to get rid of anything that falls in between.

 

I would consider it ideal to be able to choose which enchantment you're dispelling, but I have no idea how feasible that would be.

[Grumpysmith 135]

11 hours ago, Rhianna said:

.....There has been so much discussion in this thread its hard to keep up with everything.

@RetrogradeWhile I'm sure your plate is already full, I believe that it is in everyone's best interest if you were to redo your original post with all the things that have been changed. There have been many, many changes listed in these 18 pages. Unless someone is keeping detailed notes it is, as Rhianna said, "hard to keep up with". Whether it is better to just edit the original post, with a notation that it deals with the first 18 pages of comments, or start a new thread I don't know.

[kochinac 1,395]

11 hours ago, Rhianna said:

With all this talk about dispel and other new spells that allow dispelling karma spells more easily has there been any discussion about increasing the amount of source available in game just because it is so hard to find any now?

 

Because if your karma spells are more easily dispelled then people will run out of source way too quickly making the higher karma spells basically unused in pvp.

 

Or am I reading things wrong and it wont be as easy to do this?

 

There has been so much discussion in this thread its hard to keep up with everything.

Source is not the only source of karma(pun not intended) there are also missions that reward karma but there are so few, we are lacking Vyn missions, and i would like to have player gods missions back. There are also source crystal that you get from mining but they seem rare to me, maybe spaning few source salt veins that would act like salt veins from time to time would be fun, or move around source springs in the wild from time to time so people cant house them but everyone have oportunity to stumble upon them...

[Nordlys 1,425]

I still believe it could be possible to hide dispel options behind skill. For me its logic that more skilled priests should have more options - in this case the option to choose what enchant to dispel when reaching high enough skill in channeling.

 

Its like the different features you get with paving, digging, forestry etc. I think its a small, but nice reward to get more options in skills when you level them.

[Nocturnes 212]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:05 PM, Sindusk said:

There's consideration for making it so that Purge does not dispel karma effects, and the normal Dispel spell would need to be used to remove them after a Purge. It's a new spell so we'll likely still tweak it a bit, whether that be cast time, cooldown, favor cost, or mechanics in general. It remains to be seen. Feedback is valuable for that

 

 

Does Purge remove meditation buffs to such as the 50% increased dmg from hate buff? If so I think dispel and purge shouldnt remove these spells either since its a cast you can use ever 24h and was previously spared by shadowing it with other buffs.
 

 

@Wioloalso yay sea serpent pets \o/

Edited November 28, 2018 by Nocturnes

[Llawnroc 61]

---> consider a passive "link-all" ability for priests to link with any base diety within 3x3 of the priest.

 

---> cosmetic

        1.allow titles to be placed before name and separated by "of,the,etc"

        2. Craftable silver mirrors to change looks?

 

---> to clarify base speed mentioned above, glimmer short sword with high woa is faster than 3s or only faster when affected by wa?

 

---> I read the dispel issue as relating to weapon enchant order, not combat

Edited November 28, 2018 by Llawnroc

[Threap 401]

I possible solution to the dispell problem is to have a way store enchants on something like a scroll. You activate a scroll and pull the first enchant off the item and on to the scroll. You then do it again for the next enchant on another scroll. A scroll with an enchant can be activated and use to put the enchant on the item. This would fix the dispell problem and also add a cool way for priest characters to sell enchants as priests could cast directly on a scroll

Edited November 29, 2018 by Threap

[Sindusk 2,448]

Been a minute (few days) since my last post, so it's time for another round going through all the latest comments.

 

On 11/27/2018 at 4:09 PM, Oblivionnreaver said:

add the ability to choose what to dispel

So I ended up playing around with this for a bit, trying to figure out how to implement this exact thing onto dispel. I ended up with a few revisions that I attempted. At the end, I scrapped the whole thing and set it aside for now. While it's obvious that players want to be able to choose what type of effect to dispel, all the solutions for doing so have been pretty poor. I'm not willing to rush out a shoddy implementation just to "get it done" in this case. For now, Dispel will function as it always did. There's the possibility of revisiting this topic in the future but it will not be a part of the Priest Rework update.

 

On 11/27/2018 at 4:22 PM, Roccandil said:

Will these infection wounds work on uniques?

Makes some changes in the code.

Nope. Definitely wont work on uniques.

 

On 11/27/2018 at 4:28 PM, Roccandil said:

With Purge in existence, a magic shell would provide an interesting choice, as well as make spells like Oakshell more viable. With Purge, I can't see Oakshell being used at all on humans, since Purge is guaranteed to remove your armor.

 

Maybe Oakshell should just work, regardless of what you're wearing, and the game will choose the best armor (Oakshell, or your real armor) as needed? That way Purge would hurt, but not be so crippling you'd never use Oakshell.

That's a pretty good idea with Oakshell. I'll ask the team if that's something we want to do.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 1:58 AM, Rhianna said:

With all this talk about dispel and other new spells that allow dispelling karma spells more easily has there been any discussion about increasing the amount of source available in game just because it is so hard to find any now?

 

Because if your karma spells are more easily dispelled then people will run out of source way too quickly making the higher karma spells basically unused in pvp.

 

Or am I reading things wrong and it wont be as easy to do this?

 

There has been so much discussion in this thread its hard to keep up with everything.

I'll be making a change to Purge shortly which will make it avoid dispelling karma effects. They're too costly to be removed so easily.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 1:43 PM, Grumpysmith said:

@RetrogradeWhile I'm sure your plate is already full, I believe that it is in everyone's best interest if you were to redo your original post with all the things that have been changed. There have been many, many changes listed in these 18 pages. Unless someone is keeping detailed notes it is, as Rhianna said, "hard to keep up with". Whether it is better to just edit the original post, with a notation that it deals with the first 18 pages of comments, or start a new thread I don't know.

We're still making some changes. Once all the changes are finalized (which should be soon), we'll have a finalized list of changes that we're ready to present. It shouldn't be too much longer.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 4:35 PM, Nocturnes said:

Does Purge remove meditation buffs to such as the 50% increased dmg from hate buff? If so I think dispel and purge shouldnt remove these spells either since its a cast you can use ever 24h and was previously spared by shadowing it with other buffs.
 

 

@Wioloalso yay sea serpent pets \o/

It does right now, but I'll likely be removing the ability for Purge to dispel those effects alongside Karma effects in the next update.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 11:40 PM, Threap said:

I possible solution to the dispell problem is to have a way store enchants on something like a scroll. You activate a scroll and pull the first enchant off the item and on to the scroll. You then do it again for the next enchant on another scroll. A scroll with an enchant can be activated and use to put the enchant on the item. This would fix the dispell problem and also add a cool way for priest characters to sell enchants as priests could cast directly on a scroll

I tried something similar to this in Wurm Unlimited. While people love it and use it frequently, I've found it fairly damaging to the economy. Players who have many resources are able to more easily and securely create "masterpiece" items. Instead of having to sit there casting on your supreme item, risking a shatter every time, you instead just cast on items you might plan on selling until you get a 100+ cast, then use the scroll to transfer it over. This removes a ton of the risk and provides all the reward to the player. Again, it feels extremely good from the player perspective because they strictly benefit, but it's a flawed design that will most likely cause significant damage to the community and economy.

[Noizhead 622]

extreme ultimate sadness

[JakeRivers 2,921]

On 11/22/2018 at 8:30 AM, Sindusk said:

Now that Rites have an effect that lasts 24 hours after being cast, what type of benefit should Rite of Death grant the server when cast on Freedom?

 

increase the decay rate of everything off deed on the server

[Roccandil 959]

7 hours ago, Sindusk said:

While people love it and use it frequently, I've found it fairly damaging to the economy. Players who have many resources are able to more easily and securely create "masterpiece" items. Instead of having to sit there casting on your supreme item, risking a shatter every time, you instead just cast on items you might plan on selling until you get a 100+ cast, then use the scroll to transfer it over. This removes a ton of the risk and provides all the reward to the player. Again, it feels extremely good from the player perspective because they strictly benefit, but it's a flawed design that will most likely cause significant damage to the community and economy.

 

I really hate seeing the phrase "damaging to the economy"....

 

Asking the players of a long-term game like Wurm to risk massive amounts of time and effort on RNG is, in my perspective, abusive and disrespectful. I'm not blaming you for your point of view, but I consider it penny-wise and pound-foolish.

 

If it were my game, all critical RNG would only be for success, not failure (like rarity). If the game needs item/enchant sinks, make them fun, not ragequit-inducing.

 

In short, lack of players is -far- more damaging to the community and economy than players actually having fun enchanting.

[MrGARY 12,421]

7 hours ago, Sindusk said:

That's a pretty good idea with Oakshell. I'll ask the team if that's something we want to do.

 

It would be taking a step backwards to exactly how it worked in the past and why it was changed to act as it does currently. 

 

Use junk/weaker armor with oakshell -> get dispelled doesn't matter still using armor

Oakshell becomes a risk free armor.  Maybe it's not as big of a deal now that it's dropped to 70% over 80%, but it still has the same effect

 

Feel like the limits of a nuke dispel "purge" means nothing when all gods have it, just means people will pick out who is known for stacking buffs and strategically have their own priests nuke them then the limits don't matter because people are dispelled and not recasting because they are fighting.  If possible it sounds like it would be better working if it had a much lower chance to succeed with only one spell effect, but increasing chance the more spell effects there are, so it isn't just a guaranteed dispel resistance bypasser.

[Ostentatio 1,970]

1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

Use junk/weaker armor with oakshell -> get dispelled doesn't matter still using armor

Oakshell becomes a risk free armor.  Maybe it's not as big of a deal now that it's dropped to 70% over 80%, but it still has the same effect

 

I recall hearing this in the past, which is why when discussing it, I've suggested that maybe Oakshell should only have this behavior with light armor such as cloth and leather.

[Roccandil 959]

3 hours ago, MrGARY said:

Oakshell becomes a risk free armor.

 

So what? As long as Oakshell isn't the best armor, I think risk-free is a good thing. Would be a nice thing for newer players, and better that than no one ever using Oakshell because it's useless.

 

Besides, if Oakshell's purged, your "junk" armor won't be nearly as effective, and you'll die faster, so there's still a risk to relying on it.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

So...  What exactly is happening on the Fo front here?

[Roccandil 959]

What if Fo had a shape-shifting spell? Kinda a combo of Bearpaws and Oakshell: turn into an armored war bear, something that couldn't be dispelled/purged.

 

Also, if the player could then do bite damage, that would be a good thing for tome balance (make the white tome great again!).

[Wiolo 219]

You guys really are asking for too much.