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Retrograde

Priest overhaul testing

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9 minutes ago, Wiolo said:

knowing the devs vision

 

what is this vision the dev's have, they are fairly vague about it, its almost as if the vision goes off in random directions

 

I just want to see priests made fun to play, as of right now the only use is for pvp or cranking out item enchants, real utility and that is it.

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Being a priest is expensive and can be very irritating. Dispel is still a mess, idk if they're saving that for last for surprises or just not doing anything about it at all.
Sacrificing is still a jerk cause it takes so long and you can't cast while sacrificing at the same time.
Those two complaints are still my main complaints, I've kinda let go of the whole "Let deity's do all labour task" thing, I just want to see channelling be more fun and intuitive. And god awful shattering.
And by devs vision I just mostly mean't what they seem to be focusing on, and improving these areas are not part of it at all so far. And is a vague one.

Edited by Wiolo
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28 minutes ago, Wiolo said:

Sacrificing is still a jerk cause it takes so long and you can't cast while sacrificing at the same time.

 

This, I mean if you want to play a priest and do some hunting or participate at a rift you are limited extremely by being tied to an altar or sucking back gems by the bucketful. If there was a better passive regeneration rate and another option that does not involve a FSB parked next to an altar, then more people would be able to play a priest as a main and enjoy another aspect of the game which is currently limited to extreme's, this is why only 3 or so players in all of wurm play a priest as a main on freedom.

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I'm sorry but it seems like the Devs hate Fo since he is still pretty much useless, they took his alchemy and gave it to everyone instead of just him, took his double bonus from pottery and gave that away to Vaynor, and he still doesn’t have much but healing so limited in use except for healing at rifts (which I have yet to see a Fo priest at one) and yes he is good for ranching but now since animal transports are here that becomes useless since animals that are cared for are pretty much immortal and the horse industry is pretty much dead since the hell horse and unicorn glitches have been “fixed”. He is one of the only two priests (I think it was just two) that does not even have the mend spell, nor does he have a CoC, WoA, or BoTA but yes, he is good (?) for LT if that is all you want. If you are a Fo priest I am sorry if you don't agree and I hope you still have fun playing a Fo priest after this so called "improvement". I actually wanted to play a Fo priest as a main at one time but with all the "improvements" that he is going to get and the non-imping limit still in effect he just isn't worth playing a priest for.

Edited by Dranana1

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I must admit; from a PvE standpoint, it seems Fo has really gotten the short end of the stick magic-wise.  Then again, priest QoL has improved drastically, so priests as a whole are more playable, not to mention summon soul which is the most wonderful feature introduction I have seen in a long time.

 

Nahjo still has Fo out-powered on utility spells, and Fo's selling point as a healer has dropped sharply with the shared heal res (I get the feeling I wouldn't be too welcome at a rift if I were preventing LT weapons from functioning). 

 

While LT has been heavily nerfed for lategame play, it's unlikely to see less use for early--mid game; the possible exception being rifts, or one is on a protracted and bloody hunting trip.  One is unlikely to see the resistance it imparts doing much harm, when not combined with healing spells.

 

The possbility of high enchant poison gear, combined with venom on a high damage weapon, might make some of his enchants desirable; but, to use this you would be trading off your LT healing, and this is likely only to be taken up by late game players who can tank most damage easily.

 

Honestly?  I can see the shape of balance there, but it's a bit warped; the numbers definitely need tweaking down for PvE servers, and a few spells need an actual PvE use!

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I think the healing resistance from LT needs to go away.  It would help to know the Dev's mindset behind this change, but if it is for PvP, I can assure you that you're not going to get those 3-5 point heals in PvP on a reliable basis unless you're spamming truestrike..... which no one does using an LT 1h weapon.  In PvE, this seems like a hinderance, as Etherdrifter mentioned above.

 

If you're out hunting by yourself, killing trolls etc, I'm sure it is fine with the changes, but again.... what inspired this change?

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My LT weapons have just been for saving on downtime, never run LT the whole time, only swapping out as needed, I can see no reason to nerf this anymore than it has been. Why force players to stop there activities just because some dev thinks it would be more fun to stand there with balls of cotton for 5 minutes?

 

You want to make hunting on the server more challenging? Up the power of the mobs or bring in the val creatures.

 

Edited by JakeRivers
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16 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Up the power of the mobs or bring in the val creatures.

 

Release the Kraken! :ph34r:

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Hey I will be holding a funeral service for Fo when the new priest "improvements" come out if they are not changed, if anyone wants to come and say good bye to him since the Devs seem to have given up on him and written him off. I wonder if they will just end up getting rid of Fo now since there isn't really anything anyone will be able to do with him if these "improvements" are implemented. Maybe we should all just be Vyn, Libia, and Nathan priests now since they seem to have gotten the best reworks so far even though they were kind of powerhouses to begin with. Maybe its just me but they seem to be the ones the Devs really want everyone to play since they keep making them better and better while they nerf the others gods (and some like Fo to being unplayable).

 

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Lots of comments to read through. I'll be working on some changes next week based on feedback, so now seems like a good time to roll through some of the newer comments and respond to everything. However, to follow up on my post last week, we've discussed Bloodthirst internally and have some changes planned for it.

 

Also, I appreciate the change in tone from the comments. This is feeling more like proper constructive criticism and discussion, which is highly productive. Let's get right into it.

 

On 10/17/2018 at 3:40 AM, Wiolo said:

Just a quick report! it seems Scorn of Libila isn't applying a healing resistance..? also feeling attuned to monsters doesn't make them friendly at any favour level.
Also Libila still can't farm while other black light deity's can farm, seems a bit unfair to Libila.
And third (this is just a question) does the new acid/frost/fire salves change your glance rates with that weapon? or does it still count as mauling VS glancing for example if a maul is enchanted with fire.
Also... Venom never glances?! sign me up for that!

  • Confirmed through testing that the attuned isn't working. That was something that actually ended up happening on Emoo's stream which was a pretty funny moment. "Libila now makes monsters passive!" as he casually has his face torn off by a troll.
  • I'll bring up the Libila farming restriction and see what the team thinks.
  • The acid/frost/fire salves do change the glance rates of the weapon. For example, a weapon enchanted with the salve of frost will use the cold damage glance rate and damage effectiveness against the target's armour.
  • Venom should never glance but judging from another comment it appears it may not be working as intended. I've got a note to investigate that interaction and ensure it's working properly. My work in several different versions of the combat system makes it really hard to keep track of what's doing what in the current iteration.

 

On 10/17/2018 at 12:52 PM, Grumpysmith said:

Adding to my list of questions:

Already Asked - Farming for Libila, without this Libila is at a significant disadvantage for the generation of favor due to saccing.

 

New Question - 1.  With the update, will WL template demigods be attacked by BL guards regardless of their being a BL village member, and vice a versa? If true this will eliminate the current ability to have opposing template demigod players in the opposing template's villages and eliminate the ability to, for example, have a PAA priest in a BL village to cast Nimbleness. As none of the BL template priests can cast nimble, or for that matter lurkers in the deep or lurkers in the woods. NOTE: this may change once GARY is added to the BL template list.

 

New Question - 2. With the addition of Sleep Bonus to Rite of Death, its to be expected that it will be cast more often. This will cause the spread of mycellium. BL players should have the ability to harvest from trees, shrubs and bushes without the need to absorb the mycellium first from infected tiles. Couple of years ago, the ability to perform forage and botany actions on mycellium was added, but harvesting from trees, shrubs, and bushes was left the way it was. So we have to run through a thorn bush, take a lot of damage, and then go absorb myc from each tile, wait 30 seconds, do it again and again and again. Takes at least 3 times as long per harvesting action. Farmed fields don't have this problem due to cultivating, harvesting and replanting activities.  This would even the playing field between WL & BL homeservers. This severely hampers the ability to complete Personal Goals (for example 5000 wine) as well as Transmutation due to the significantly greater time commitment.

 

Comment - I haven't fully digested the inability to arm Rebirthed Trolls. On the one hand if charmed and dominated trolls can't be armed it seems like a leveling of the playing field. On the other hand rebirthed creatures only survive 24 hrs, whereas dominated and charmed creatures can be kept literally forever (unless killed). So rebirthed creatures have to be replaced, at minimum, every 24 hours. Only corpses with less than 10 dmg can be rebirthed, so no real storage option. However, in combat, corpses can be rebirthed, but without a weapon is the expenditure of favor worth it? Maybe for a Croc or similiar which retains its teeth.

  1. Really interesting question. My current knowledge states that enemies for guards are determined by kingdom, not by religion. If there's a WL priest in a BL kingdom, the guards should not attack the WLer simply because it's a BL kingdom. Maybe I'm mistaken, but that should be how it currently works and if it doesn't, then it probably needs to be looked at changing.
  2. Agreed. I've got a note to bring this up. Seems reasonable enough, but I'll make sure to get it confirmed by the team and then implemented.

In regards to the comment about Rebirth, while they share the same mechanic, they're actually fundamentally different in their use. Dominate can only be used on monsters. Charm can only be used on animals. Rebirth can be used on anything. Also, it can make for an interesting utility during combat whereas dominate and charm are more of a pre-planned function. I remember an encounter with a player in a 1 on 1 where we dehorsed eachother. The fight was looking pretty poor for myself, so I began to run away and formed a decent distance. Instead of chasing after me on foot, he resurrected his horse, equipped the gear, and ran me down. If rebirth is changed to auto-equip gear from the corpse, that changes a bit of the meta-game around rebirth being used where dead horses and players would have their gear remain inside of them instead of being extracted and the corpse being thrown on the ground again.

 

There's probably some changes coming to Rebirth, but it's up to a discussion with the team to determine the direction it should go.

 

On 10/17/2018 at 5:57 PM, Wiolo said:

And here's a suggestion I would really appreciate if was added, make template demi-gods have their template deity be their casting item, so Libila template deity's use a libila statuette and create libila colossus.
And Libila deity's pray on corpses, Fo trees etc. And alignment gain bonuses be the same too.
 

This is something that's been mentioned many times. However as of the current situation I can't code this solution in. It requires a database change which is out of my hands directly. I'll poke again and see what we can do.

 

On 10/18/2018 at 12:24 PM, Ecrir said:

 

From what the devs said in a steam I believe the issue is that there's a lot of (legacy) code which links Libila to BL. Thus it would be a huge amount of work to make that possible. I think this is the one, but I don't know at which moment in the steam they talk about it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/303235308

 

Since I was the one who mentioned it in the video, I'll try to clarify my thoughts here.

 

What's holding Libila back from being brought to Freedom isn't entirely down to the code, but there is some concern there. While you can look at Wurm Unlimited servers and say "hey look they can do it why can't we?" - it's not exactly that simple when it comes to Wurm Online. There's other factors at play that Wurm Unlimited servers can shrug off as being a "minor bug" which could cause major issues on the live realm. For example, most of the servers are using the public available fixes for Libila on Freedom. However, there's very rarely a case that they cast Zombie Infestation or Land of the Dead because the players don't actually use it. When they do, the server owner can step in and clean up the situation. Just as a reminder, I've personally coded some of the "fixes" that allow Libila to be played on Wurm Unlimited servers and been on the receiving end of some of those massive bugs that are caused when players start messing with things that weren't designed to function that way.

 

You can always counter with "okay then just fix those spells too" - to which I would counter "what else is broken?" While I'd love to investigate that and potentially work towards this goal, the dev team has decided that it was outside the scope of what we want to accomplish with this specific update and that the option remains open for sometime in the future. Retrograde echos this statement in the video linked.

 

On 10/19/2018 at 5:56 PM, CIRAY said:

Here’s a question for the devs, mainly Sindusk: 

 

The artifact weapons currently have demise spells on them (I.e.: Fo’s Demise on the Sceptre of Ascension), will they be completely removed with this update or replaced with something else? 

Good question. I haven't actually looked at what would become of the Artifacts since their demise is essentially a hidden attribute. On first thought I imagine their functionality would change to the new demise instead, but it's a topic for conversation. Thanks for mentioning it.

 

On 10/20/2018 at 2:03 AM, whereami said:

Can spell-related (de)buffs incurred from jewelry pleeeease please please be added to show in Spell Effects?
Everything should show in spell effects. It irks me how many things, buffs, and statuses do not.

 

Also upon contemplation, more info about the specifics of how the new jewelry enchants would be nice, as your description in the OP misses out on some specific points;

I am left to assume from your wordage that only jewelry with the same enchants will incur penalties. I.E. Two rings, one with 100 Blaze and one with 100 Glacial means I still get 7.5% to both frost and fire damage? Is this also the same for protection spells? I.E. a ring with Blaze and a ring with Fire Protection?

I am also left to assume that the actual enchant power of the protection and damage-buff spells is directly linear to the % of damage/protection bonus provided.

So if I'm doing my math right, it seems that wearing multiple rings has a maximum net-protection value of around 11.25% assuming all three items were 100 power, and that item QL is not factored in. This only drops to about 10% with two similar items.

 

Also, why did we have to nerf LT so hard? It already has plenty of ways to counter it, it's been quite useful for some time and now, I honestly highly doubt it will ever see much if any use in PvP after this change. Maybe in PvE only.

Ways to counter LT: AOSP on armor. Lead weapons. Using FB or FA instead of BT or RT which groups wound damage. Using smaller, faster hitting weapons...

 

If you use LT in PvP after this change you'll be dubbed a fool, and a dead one at that.

  • The jewelry buffs are planned to be added to spell effects. In fact, the visuals for them were already done a while ago but I entirely forgot to actually code it in for the public testing version. My bad. I'll get to it in the near future. I also am a firm believer that the spell effects window should show everything affecting you.
  • It was mentioned that the way the jewelry stacks is kind of unintuitive. It was a solution I quickly thought of while piecing things together. To directly answer your question:
    • Yes you would receive the full effect from each individual enchant. 7.5% from frost and fire in the 100 Blaze/Glacial scenario.
    • The above rule also applies to the protection enchants.
    • Your math is correct. It should be 133.3% effectiveness of the 7.5% (7.5 * 1.33... = 10) with two 100QL/100 cast items equipped, and 150% (7.5 * 1.5 = 11.25) with three 100QL/100 cast items equipped.
  • The Life Transfer "nerf" is being terribly overstated. I'd like to see some actual testing done on the test server and tell me what's wrong with the current iteration of it. Give some details about how much damage your taking, what the buff is going up to each hit, how much health you're being healed. Give it an honest attempt on the public test server. This is one change that looks like a huge hit on paper but in reality is just shoring up some abuse cases.

 

On 10/22/2018 at 3:22 AM, zeeph said:

Oakshell

 

Oakshell was for me only usefull when casting on pets, because who doesnt wear any armor at all!? (beside that monkguy here *g*)

But that spell didnt got only nerfed the resistance value, it got rendered useless at all, because it can only be casted on players and only on chaos.

I bet this spell will now never get used again… 

I touched on Rebirth in a previous response so I'm picking out Oakshell here.

 

The oakshell change was worded weirdly. It's damage resistance got reduced, yes, but it is still equivalent to dragonscale with a 100 cast. Previously, it was better than dragonscale by a factor of 33%. You would take 33% less damage with a 100 cast oakshell than you would with dragonscale. Now, it's been brought in line with the best armour of the game to make combat more easily approachable. This change had to happen due to the difference in how dispelling creatures works now. Players will be able to potentially cast and keep an oakshell on themselves in PvP. This drifts over to "nerf" the PvE version of the spell, but calling a free dragonscale set useless seems a bit overboard.

 

The wording of the oakshell change makes it seem like it's a PvP-only spell but it's been untouched on PvE. You can still cast it on both players and creatures in Freedom. It's just a really awkward phrasing for how the change was made because it was written hastily. I wrote it by the way, so don't flame Retrograde for copying over my horrible phrasing!

 

On 10/22/2018 at 6:39 PM, Wiolo said:

I'm just going to be reporting some bugs and giving feedback here so bear with me.

  • The damage bonus nerf hasn't seemed to be applied yet to the test server, without damage bonus 16-17 damage, with damage bonus 20-21 I approve of this nerf because it felt required and weighed heavily on non-priests.
    • This is something I'll have to look into. I'm pretty confident the change was done correctly but I'll make a note to double-check it. It's possible that I changed the legacy combat system code instead...
  • Scorn of Libila AND Light of Fo don't target high damage wounds yet. Scorn also doesn't apply a healing resistance like it should. Scorn also heals a minimal of 3 wounds as expected, but on one strange instance healed 1 wound.
    • I heard this from internal testing but didn't manage to find and resolve the bug before the public testing. It's been tracked and is on the docket for being fixed.
  • The healing resistances are powerful and annoying. About 150 health healed gives about a 50% healing resistance, so difficult times at rifts. But people do manage with just cotton, most rifts I go to have no healers... But healing that much is uncommon in PvP, which I feel like this is targeted more towards.
    • The healing resistances can be tuned if they feel too heavy right now. If you have opinions on how much damage people should be able to take before being heavily impacted by the healing resistance, I'm all ears. Our target was to allow players to allow players to have roughly a 2x health bar at most. Once you have healed a full health bar, you're at 50% healing resistance (as you mentioned) and start having issues keeping yourself alive longer. This felt like a good target for PvP but if we need to separate the PvE and PvP healing resistance rates, that's something we can do. Give me a target of "how many health bars" a player should be able to roll through in a PvE encounter and we can adjust the numbers to make it more reasonable.
  • Venom is at the moment useless, does the same amount of damage to armoured foes and glances still at high power.
    • Noted. I'll look into it and make sure it's functioning properly.
  • Glacial and Frost protection type spells are working great and as expected to be working. It DOES effectively improve your weapon damage if it is enchanted with a salve of frost/acid/fire
  • Essence drain seems to heal/heals very rarely..? I hit a unicorn with a 93 Essence drain cast with a small maul 14 times, on only two of those times or 1/7 chance I healed a very small amount of health, about 1.2-2 damage which is way worse than life transfer. But it does cause internal wounds at 10% weapon damage. I hope this is not the way the weapon enchant is staying. Cause that's a enchant that will NEVER be used.
    • I did notice some weird interactions with how it functions at certain power levels and with certain types of hits. I believe it has something to do with the current thresholds that are in place to prevent extremely minor wounds and healing. If you could perform a test for me:
      • Take a weapon with 100 LT and record how much health it heals per hit against a target.
      • Take a weapon with 100 ED and record how much health it heals per hit against the same target.
    • Those metrics should help enable me to figure out what exactly is going on.
  • Ice pillar and tentacles are rocking socks, deal 9-11 damage to a 90SS player who stays in it through the whole thing, a good way to weaken a team, tentacles seems to deal slightly more damage.
  • Drain health is a pretty nice way to quickly remove 1 wound, which I approve of.
  • Worm brains/hypothermia and inferno are intense, dealing about 25 damage to a 90SS player on a ~50 power cast, and 40 damage to a 35 soul strength player. Casting time takes a long time though so it can be interrupted, which is a good balance.
  • Oakshell is cool still imo, but I feel the DR nerf is a but unnecessary in freedom, I also feel oakshell should still be castable on horses in PvP because it does slow the mount depending on cast power and is dispellable. But eh.
    • Made a detailed response about Oakshell in a previous comment.
  • Heal is awesome, 10/10 I think it's so much better and it almost always fully heals the target if they aren't affected by pesky healing resistances.
  • Bear paws is nice, I like how it deals more damage now, but why only against players? It's kinda weak/unnoticeable without buff.
    • The bearpaws buff is applied as damage dealt by players when they have Bearpaws, not against players when you are affected by Bearpaws. Maybe I'm being thrown off by how this is phrased.
  • Dispell resistance should be more powerful, and last longer. Dispell is so unsatisfying and annoying.
    • Could you go into a bit more detail about this? I'd like some more information about scenarios it's being used in and the results. I've not actually tested the use cases for dispel very thoroughly and getting a picture in my head of how it's currently operating (through numbers) would be very helpful.
  • Rebirth is neat I guess since it can be used on anything, but the fact that you can't equip skeletons is kinda... Yeah. Sad. But it was too powerful before...
  • Frantic charge is much better now that it lasts so much longer. Sad that it doesn't affected horses, would love to see that in PvE at least. : >
    • There's definitely a world in which we could pull an Oakshell-style change on it and keep it enabled for creatures on Freedom. Let me know what you think of that.
  • Lurker in the woods locating legendary creatures may slowly bring an end to the hidden uniques on Xanadu, but champion creatures would get in the way often. I dislike this change in some ways.
    • This is a discussion unto itself. The dev team was also mostly torn between this idea as well. This is a change that could very easily get reverted if there's enough opposition to it. It's up to you, the players, to relay what exactly you think of this change and what the potential impact/damage could be.
  • Fire heart and shard of ice is a b**** and is a quick 10-15 damage done to you that is almost uninterruptible. Should be 7 seconds, and why is rotting gut so cheap but also weak? make it like fire heart and shard! Libila has a large range of damage spells. Don't make her shard of ice type spell weak!
    • Noted. Rotting Gut should have a similar damage to Fireheart and Shard of Ice. However, you're probably right that Fireheart and Shard of Ice should be set to 7 seconds instead. I'll play with the numbers a bit and see if I can align them a bit better.
  • The bloodthirst nerf is sad, but bloodthirst has an extra power still of giving more skillgain to that weapon and working well with weapon salves for more concentration of that type of damage.
    • Changes coming soon to Bloodthirst.
  • Salves don't change armour glance rates, a spear still glanced like crazy off of scale when using cold. But did deal extra damage due to scale being weak to that damage type.
    • Sounds like an issue with where the damage type is being changed in the order of operations in the combat system. I'll look into it. Thanks for the in-depth testing.
  • Hypothermia is the best of the three heavy damage spells due to having lower cast time [15 seconds] and difficulty,. Does cost an additional 10 favour though.
    • These spells are pretty experimental and probably need to be tweaked. If you have any suggestions on what needs to be adjusted to bring them more in line, those are the types of comments we're looking for. These spells can also be adjusted post-patch if they become out of control. With resistances as a new tool alongside the existing favor cost, cooldown, and other metrics, we should be able to tweak them into balance.
  • Tornado is pretty good, deals about 33% less damage than shard and fire heart, but hits all enemies around dealing a good amount of chaos, but takes a while to cast. 74 power tornado dealt 33 damage to all horses around me (I had them angry at me for this to work) and shard of ice was 55 at 94 power.
  • Smite can be weak but powerful... a 21 power cast did 18 damage, less than inferno. Both players had 90 soul strength.
  • Hell strength boosts strength by a decent bit at around 36 body strength, noticed dealing an extra 1 damage to enemies with a small maul that was dealing 6-7 damage, than it became about 7-8 damage. Improved DR as expected at 81 power.
  • Refresh needed a timer reduction, it's much better now. ALSO Drain stamina was pretty cool, restored about 40 stamina at 74 power, and 52 stamina at 94 power, only removed 3% of the enemy's stamina though, just bad in that area...


That's all I have to say for now.

That's a lot. I wrote my responses in bullet form as a response using purple text instead because trying to play "match the bullets" wasn't working for me on my initial draft.

 

On 10/23/2018 at 2:18 AM, Wiolo said:

Hello! Sorry for the spam, I'm going to be reviewing some the changes in a comparative prospective now.
 

  • Vynora: Seems to be not only the best enchanting deity, but one of the best if not the best mage, Hypothermia and shard of ice are intense easy spells that deal great damage, and has good pillar spells making her great in the back lines of combat. I can't help but feel like she should get some form of damage resistance, such as some form of elemental resistance, since Vynora seems to take on a defensive role in PvP with excel and defensive bonuses on roads and seas and what not.
    • We had some thoughts on defensive buffs against certain damage types. Think along the lines of a buff (like Excel) that just reduces physical damage outright. We ended up not wanting to do that since multiplicative DR has caused the current situation of combat in Wurm where stacking tons of multiplicative DR makes players into tanks that are near immortal. It's something I'm personally very concerned about adding because it would just worsen the problem instead of creating a solution. If you have any ideas for ways to enhance Vynora's defensive capabilities in some other ways, that would be interesting to hear.
    • Side note: Vynora is the only deity allowed to have two "pillar" style AoE combat spells.
  • Magranon: A very good mage and the best fighting deity, but a bit of lacking in enchanting, this deity is a great miner buddy too, dealing extra damage and having a slightly improved offensive CR and item protection properties, this deity is mean't to be in the direct throws of combat and it's what he's about, has a skillgain bonus in it too and a mild healing spell with a good trade off, this really is the best deity to be if you're fighting enemies up close, and has a great movement speed improving buff, frantic charge, making priests of this deity more mobile, and good in intense battles with mass stamina, but good luck getting that cast off in PvP... 
    • This was intended as the "white light combat god" from the rework. He already had the tools to be a combatant, we just reinforced that identity with the changes.
  • Fo: Still the best healing deity, but also a great rancher, this guy is animal's best friend, being able to tame everything and all, I love how he has so many buff and healing spells, he's just the support class, but I feel like his buff spells have been nerfed a bit too harshly personally, on top of having his healing take a large blow, but the healing has been buffed well which can make up for it in many scenario's, also gets a good combat edge if paired with a powerful pet. And forest giant strength for an extra bit of edge, I can't help but feel like he should get a low tier damage spell, similar to fireheart or shard of ice. He is also a bit poor in enchanting variety, but LT sells well, r-right? well we'll see after the LT nerf. And venom is getting a good buff coming. Plus jewellery enchants will be in high demand, also a decent utility priest for ranchers.
  • Libila: This is a strange one, kind of all over the place, she's a good mage, and a decent healer in some scenarios, but she's also not that good in the front rows of combat, she's also a very good enchanter, close to Vynora in enchanting powers, having BoTD WA and AoSP plus RT BT and ED plus jewellery enchants and alchemy sacrifice, she is a good deity for combat with a tip of combat rating, and a decent healer, and able to call the dead to help out, she's kind of an experience, and I think her absorbing abilities should be tied to her as a passive rather than a kingdom template bonus. As a mage, she's kind of all over the place, her quick spells are very bad for damage, but her high damage easily interruptable spells are the bomb, and cheaper, plus she also has Scorn of Libila, a healing spell capable of being extremely powerful in certain scenario's, and cheap, but a bit weak in damage as expected for such a strong spell. Also a good support class too, with Truehit and hell strength, and can hinder enemies.

            Alright here's where the judgement comes instead of just stating the obvious, player deity's.

  • Smeagain: A strong mage deity, but not much else after having lost LoF + damage, capable of healing well, but not while taking heat. She is however good as a buffer, Truehit, hell strength, and refresh, and can do heal, she will be appreciated on the battle field, but other deity's do her role well, just kind of a strange one. She is also a a poor enchanter, Guess it's a good buffer so people will appreciate her in battle.
    • This seems like the one you feel is currently in a weak state. Would you have any recommendations for changes to give Smeagain priests more of an identity?
  • Paaweelr: This is an interesting mix of a fighting deity and enchanter. Deals 15% more damage and has higher skillgain in combat skills like Magranon while being a Vynora template deity, has Flaming Aura, Nimbleness, Blessing of the Dark and all armour enchants, and has Wisdom of Vynora which is cool for extra sleep bono, and charm animal plus courier, plus hell strength, so in some ways it can be used to deal more damage than magranon, but looses item protection. Also a great mage. Has Hypothermia and feels well balanced, so I approve of this one strongly. And gets wild growth for that oak wood. Also good for Cure Medium.
  • Nahjo: This is a favourite in freedom right now, a great utility priest, , but looses it's valuable alchemy sacrifice, but gains some decent things in return. As an enchanter, this deity is decent, nothing huge, gets to keep WoA. On top of all this, he has gained a 10% skillgain bonus which is very nice. Plus reduced stamina in the woods and 10% favour regen. This deity gains Charm animal too plus oakshell which is nice, and weak as a mage, but does get smite so it can deal great magic damage in certain situations, still has strongwall for utility purposes, but still has lost it's edge from loosing alchemy sacrifice, this deity used to get 10 favour from sacrificing 100QL corn, and now it's gone completely. Dang. I feel Nahjo should at least keep alchemy sacrifice in the midst of all the bonuses and enchants other deity's are getting, has lost LT but gained Essence drain... There's no real reason to pick this one over other deity's, it just feels strange, this deity is not very versatile.
  • Tosiek: This one has gained some things and lost some things, but this one has mainly gained I think, Tosiek has gained 10% skillgain bonus plus alchemy sacrifice and 10% favor regen. As an enchanter is good, not fantastic but good! has gained Blessing of the dark but lost Wind of Ages, which is a good trade off, and gets to keep charm which is nice, this deity has NO armour enchants, but gets RT and LT and MS plus, due to there being no armour enchants, can't help but feel like this one should get Frostbrand/Bloodthirst but oh well. As a mage this one is a bit strong, no powerful quick spells but gets inferno for great damage, also gets Scorn for AoE damage, and because of that it's a powerful healer in group fights/rifts, also gets a 35% chance to keep items through death, making this one feel like a bit of a defensive mage in combat due to no damage bonuses, as a buffer/support this one is good too, getting refresh and hell strength. But looses Truehit. Also has IP and tentacles.
  • Nathan: This boy oh this boy... This is what my main is right now, Nathan looses a bit and gains a lot, this one looses friendly animals but gains friendly monsters instead, so no free hell horse riding, Nathan also gains dominate so this one really has control over monsters, he also looses CoC but instead gains BoTD which is a good trade off, on top of that he keeps his 15% damage bonus and gains alchemy sacrifice but looses skillgain bonus, but gains combat skill gain bonus. As an enchanter this deity is very good, has both armour enchants AoSP plus WA and gains BoTD, also has Venom which will be useful in the future from what has been teased and also has Essence Drain for heavily armoured PvE fighters, also gains 10% favor regen. This deity also gains Scorn of Libila and that's a bit.. too strong? he has all three tiers of single heal spells, Focused Will, Cure Medium, And Cure Serious, so he's a healer and a heavy hitting priest, but unlike Magranon does not have item protection through death, as a mage he is slightly weaker than Tosiek due to loosing pillar spells, but yeah. A great enchanter good healer and damage dealer and mage and has alchemy sacrifice, a scary one.
    • This definitely comes off as the one that feels most strong. If it were up to you, what would you change to give Nathan more of an identity in one way or the other?

           Phew that took me a while to write and was a eyeful to read, but that's what I think of every deity in it's current state, can't wait to see what happens to Gary and for the overhaul to go live someday.

Again responded in the quote itself due to bullet matching problems.

 

On 10/23/2018 at 12:09 PM, JakeRivers said:

So no interest in my idea for improving favor regen at all for priests?

 

Everyone is happy with the current sacrifice/gem system as the only option?

 

On my WU server I run mods that improve natural favor regeneration. I'm all for the change, so I'll spark a discussion about it in the dev chat and see what they think.

 

23 hours ago, Dranana1 said:

I'm sorry but it seems like the Devs hate Fo since he is still pretty much useless, they took his alchemy and gave it to everyone instead of just him, took his double bonus from pottery and gave that away to Vaynor, and he still doesn’t have much but healing so limited in use except for healing at rifts (which I have yet to see a Fo priest at one) and yes he is good for ranching but now since animal transports are here that becomes useless since animals that are cared for are pretty much immortal and the horse industry is pretty much dead since the hell horse and unicorn glitches have been “fixed”. He is one of the only two priests (I think it was just two) that does not even have the mend spell, nor does he have a CoC, WoA, or BoTA but yes, he is good (?) for LT if that is all you want. If you are a Fo priest I am sorry if you don't agree and I hope you still have fun playing a Fo priest after this so called "improvement". I actually wanted to play a Fo priest as a main at one time but with all the "improvements" that he is going to get and the non-imping limit still in effect he just isn't worth playing a priest for.

Ouch, that's a pretty scathing review of Fo. Let me try and defend our nature-loving overlord.

  • Fo has Cure Light, Cure Medium, and Cure Serious. The new spell rolling has guaranteed that Fo will be the only deity among all of them to obtain all three of these healing spells. This makes him uniquely attuned to be the most favor-efficient healer.
  • Due to the QoL changes, you can now cast Cure spells directly on a target and it will auto-target the highest valid wound and heal it. No more opening someone's equipment, finding the wound, and casting the proper heal. Just point-click now.
  • Cleanse was a requested spell due that has uses for changing dirt to grass. You can now force grass to grow after completing a construction project and wanting your lawn back on PvE. There was also no easy way to remove Mycelium from PvP servers, which this spell now does.

With those points out of the way, I'm actually struggling to find other ways to defend Fo. So in essence, aside from the above, you're basically right. I will, however, mention that a spell or two is pending a rework that Fo has access to. Hopefully those reworks will make him more appealing. That said, what changes would you like to see that would bring Fo to the forefront?

 

22 hours ago, Wiolo said:

At least Light of Fo targets huge wounds now, but still, the resistance timer is WAY too long, tanks at rifts will easily build a 75% resistance and that lasts 15 whole dangerous minutes. Of just almost no healing, wtf kind of "healer" class is this? why is the timer 20 whole minutes?! oh my god. What is Fo even now? he's just the guy who gets 1 or 2 good heal than clocks out and says. "Sorry! can't heal much anymore you animal of an excuse for a human being" on top of being unable to cast for 2 minutes so it can't be spammed, plus the timer takes longer too so it can easily be interrupted in heated situations by tangle or being hit. This deity has been nerfed to bunk, he sucks as an enchanter and all of his buff spells suck now. What's the point of ruining the one good things he's the best at? he's the healing deity, don't make that even more impossible for priests of him.

I'm sorry devs but gee whiz, this deity is sitting in so many layers of nerfage now. Tangle weave nightmare plus heal resistance mayhem on top of large casting timers makes this guy good for just 1 or two heals than bye. Can't count on him anymore.
Like I said, the healing resistance timer is way way too long, and Light of Fo is already an expensive spell favor wise.

Do you think that allowing Fo to have a unique passive that reduces the healing resistance penalty might be a good idea? Just throwing out an example, maybe inflict only half the healing resistance penalty when the spell is cast from a Fo priest?

 

21 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

I must admit; from a PvE standpoint, it seems Fo has really gotten the short end of the stick magic-wise.  Then again, priest QoL has improved drastically, so priests as a whole are more playable, not to mention summon soul which is the most wonderful feature introduction I have seen in a long time.

 

Nahjo still has Fo out-powered on utility spells, and Fo's selling point as a healer has dropped sharply with the shared heal res (I get the feeling I wouldn't be too welcome at a rift if I were preventing LT weapons from functioning). 

 

While LT has been heavily nerfed for lategame play, it's unlikely to see less use for early--mid game; the possible exception being rifts, or one is on a protracted and bloody hunting trip.  One is unlikely to see the resistance it imparts doing much harm, when not combined with healing spells.

 

The possbility of high enchant poison gear, combined with venom on a high damage weapon, might make some of his enchants desirable; but, to use this you would be trading off your LT healing, and this is likely only to be taken up by late game players who can tank most damage easily.

 

Honestly?  I can see the shape of balance there, but it's a bit warped; the numbers definitely need tweaking down for PvE servers, and a few spells need an actual PvE use!

In essence, you've hit the nail on the head. We've got the shape complete, but it's just a bit off. We're looking for player feedback to help finalize it's form before pushing it to live.

 

21 hours ago, Wargasm said:

I think the healing resistance from LT needs to go away.  It would help to know the Dev's mindset behind this change, but if it is for PvP, I can assure you that you're not going to get those 3-5 point heals in PvP on a reliable basis unless you're spamming truestrike..... which no one does using an LT 1h weapon.  In PvE, this seems like a hinderance, as Etherdrifter mentioned above.

 

If you're out hunting by yourself, killing trolls etc, I'm sure it is fine with the changes, but again.... what inspired this change?

What situations has the healing resistance from LT been impacting your play on the testing server?

 

20 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

My LT weapons have just been for saving on downtime, never run LT the whole time, only swapping out as needed, I can see no reason to nerf this anymore than it has been. Why force players to stop there activities just because some dev thinks it would be more fun to stand there with balls of cotton for 5 minutes?

 

You want to make hunting on the server more challenging? Up the power of the mobs or bring in the val creatures.

 

We don't want players to sit there healing their wounds with cotton. And the healing resistance on LT, as stated a million times already, is not as severe as everyone is painting it right now. When actually in use, the effects are hardly felt. Life Transfer is just as good as it's always been outside of abuse cases.

 

4 hours ago, Dranana1 said:

Hey I will be holding a funeral service for Fo when the new priest "improvements" come out if they are not changed, if anyone wants to come and say good bye to him since the Devs seem to have given up on him and written him off. I wonder if they will just end up getting rid of Fo now since there isn't really anything anyone will be able to do with him if these "improvements" are implemented. Maybe we should all just be Vyn, Libia, and Nathan priests now since they seem to have gotten the best reworks so far even though they were kind of powerhouses to begin with. Maybe its just me but they seem to be the ones the Devs really want everyone to play since they keep making them better and better while they nerf the others gods (and some like Fo to being unplayable).

 

Responded to the previous comment but I want to mention here that there is nothing the dev team is pushing as an agenda. There will be an offering of full faith switches to every player in the game when this update goes live. Nobody is aiming to make their priest better than the rest. I would mark success from this update being dependent on an equivalent ratio of players taking every god. With 10 deities in play, that'd be 10% of priests on each deity. It's probably not going to be perfect, but it's something we're aiming towards. Your concerns aren't falling on deaf ears, and as mentioned in my earlier post - I'm reading everything posted here.

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The jewelry buffs are planned to be added to spell effects. In fact, the visuals for them were already done a while ago but I entirely forgot to actually code it in for the public testing version. My bad. I'll get to it in the near future. I also am a firm believer that the spell effects window should show everything affecting you.

It was mentioned that the way the jewelry stacks is kind of unintuitive. It was a solution I quickly thought of while piecing things together. To directly answer your question:

  • Yes you would receive the full effect from each individual enchant. 7.5% from frost and fire in the 100 Blaze/Glacial scenario. The above rule also applies to the protection enchants.
  • Your math is correct. It should be 133.3% effectiveness of the 7.5% (7.5 * 1.33... = 10) with two 100QL/100 cast items equipped, and 150% (7.5 * 1.5 = 11.25) with three 100QL/100 cast items equipped.
  • The Life Transfer "nerf" is being terribly overstated. I'd like to see some actual testing done on the test server and tell me what's wrong with the current iteration of it. Give some details about how much damage your taking, what the buff is going up to each hit, how much health you're being healed. Give it an honest attempt on the public test server. This is one change that looks like a huge hit on paper but in reality is just shoring up some abuse cases.


You're doing amazing work Sindusk, and the fact that you're even keeping this much communication while doing so is greatly appreciated by all. (I don't mean to speak for everyone... but would anyone actually refute that?)

So touching on your answers to my questions;

  1. QL does indeed affect the damage/protection enchantments, more or less the same way it affects nolo? There was no mention of this, that I saw, in the OP.
  2. I will definitely be doing some testing with LT on Test prior to this going live, but I think myself along with many others, are confused as to why LT needs fixing at all. If something isn't broken, don't fix it, right? The only abuse cases I was ever aware of with LT was putting it on armor along with AOSP which was a bug and has already been patched for years. Can you / are you allowed to point out any clear scenarios that are considered to be "abuse"?
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Sindusk, good work my friend.  I love that you are taking the time to respond to our concerns.

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I'm pretty sure that the "issue" isn't healing with LT, but rather being healed via aoe heals and/or heal and/or cures and still healing with LT, all of which when combined can create a very powerful increase in your effective health but is pretty much an edge case

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I am confused. Several times there have been references to 'abusing' LT with no further details. I've seen similar sentiments in other major changes in the past.

 

Obviously there's a major difference between how the devs and players see certain issues, but we never actually get the devs side of the issue so we're left arguing with each other on one hand and a blank wall where the devs would normally be.

 

How is it ever possible to abuse LT? Is it doing something that wasn't intended somehow? I only do pve myself so I can't speak for pvp, but all LT has ever done for me is save me the 10 minutes of having to run away and heal repeatedly.

 

Edit: MrGary posted while I was typing....If this is the actual concern I can easily see LT being effected by the healing debuff but there's no reason for LT to block actual direct healing by adding to the debuff.

Edited by Dinant
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people are just complaining to complain, unless you're fighting dragons in 50ql cloth while beating up pigs with lt weapons and two alts spamming heals on you you won't get enough resistance to matter

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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3 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

I'm pretty sure that the "issue" isn't healing with LT, but rather being healed via aoe heals and/or heal and/or cures and still healing with LT, all of which when combined can create a very powerful increase in your effective health but is pretty much an edge case

 

Oh I  was under the impression  it was people worried about the resist to healing  overall from using Fo casted spell and LT from a weapon making the resist penalty lasting to long and maybe to much of a resists itself ?

So the more you heal up the higher the resist goes against you ...is there a point were you get such high resist from different  healing types  that you will not get any health back at all or very low amount ?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sindusk said:

Really interesting question. My current knowledge states that enemies for guards are determined by kingdom, not by religion. If there's a WL priest in a BL kingdom, the guards should not attack the WLer simply because it's a BL kingdom. Maybe I'm mistaken, but that should be how it currently works and if it doesn't, then it probably needs to be looked at changing. 

First, TY you for all of your responses to questions/comments.

Your statement quoted above indicates that I may not have been clear in my question. Prior to the advent of player gods, WL priests would be attacked by guards and Templars of BL and vice a versa for BL priests on WL servers. So it was common to keep priests in caves off deed. With the advent of the player gods that did go away. My concern was in looking at the way things seemed to be going, I was concerned that we would return to the old ways and that God Alliance would supersede kingdom alignment.

.

This concern is partially driven by that fact that Truehit is becoming a WL only cast (unless the currently undefined Gary has that ability). Both my Lib and Tosiek priests lose this and Tosiek loses LOF as well, but gets scorn. While priests get a CR boost that may counter that, BL non-priests lose the ability to receive that from their priests. This means that BL priests cannot provide either nimble enchants or Truehit, both of which are accuracy enhancements which are especially important when fighting champs or at PVE events (rifts and unique hunts).

 

Regarding Libila farming, my comments were made before seeing @Wargasmtable (TY Wargasm) showing that the other gods were losing Alchemy saccing. While I'm still concerned with a Lib Priests ability to feed itself - without having to forage for every non-meat item), the concern for materials for sacrificing are receding slightly as everyone will be on closer footing. Although to collect materials for sacrificing I will always have to take a cart and crates to collect materials when hunting.

 

I am still working through all of these changes, so my opinions may change as time goes along and I hear other comments.

 

And last but not least, my complements on all your work. :)   As, well as to all of the other devs, data tables are hard to make sexy.

 

Edited by Grumpysmith
Correct attribution error.
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A separate Life Transfer Resistance makes sense to me so that people's LT doesn't start working less because you have a healer nearby, also I will respond to my opinions a bit more and elaborate a bit to @Sindusk.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:
    • The bearpaws buff is applied as damage dealt by players when they have Bearpaws, not against players when you are affected by Bearpaws. Maybe I'm being thrown off by how this is phrased.

Yeah, that was a simple mis-reading on my part, and you were correct on what I mean't.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

The healing resistances can be tuned if they feel too heavy right now.

I think the healing resistances make perfect sense in PvP circumstances, but in PvE it hurts a lot... people at rifts heal a lot, here's what I think, maybe on PvE have the resistance cap to 10 minutes at 100% resistance,  Therefore basically the resistance wears off twice as fast in PvE and increases half as much when healed.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:
    • There's definitely a world in which we could pull an Oakshell-style change on it and keep it enabled for creatures on Freedom. Let me know what you think of that.

I'd love that for frantic charge!

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Venom should never glance but judging from another comment it appears it may not be working as intended.

That's exactly what I was testing for, and also, to what degree will this enchant ignore armour?

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:
    • This definitely comes off as the one that feels most strong. If it were up to you, what would you change to give Nathan more of an identity in one way or the other?

Yes, about what I said about Nathan. I can't help but feel like Scorn of Libila might be a bit too powerful for Nathan? An AoE healing spell that in rare circumstances can be more powerful than LoF, on top of getting damage bonus and all three tiers of healing spells and alchemy sacrifice, although I guess the loss of 35% chance to keep items at death compared to Magranon is an arguement that can be made, it just feels like this deity gets a bit too much of... everything, I mean he has gained dominate and a lot of spells. He's an enchanter! a healer! a warrior! an okay mage. wew boy. On top of that he also gains more combat skill gain, making him kind of... a very versatile in many PvE cases better than Magranon deity. And nobody should just be "better" than any one else. Although he does loose mining powers compared to Maggie.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:
    • This seems like the one you feel is currently in a weak state. Would you have any recommendations for changes to give Smeagain priests more of an identity?

I think Smeagain should at least get the item death protection, to make up for what the focus the of this deity seems to be, which is combat, having no damage bonuses, gives him more buff spell bonuses. I see a lot of well rounded deity's in many areas, right now he's just the buff guy, I think it would tie in the knot well if he had an item protection bonus since he seems to be a bit focused to combat with no damage bonus. I also didn't notice he had BoTD so he is a decent caster so I don't think he needs much more. I think it would make an interesting choice between Maggie and Smeagle.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

These spells are pretty experimental and probably need to be tweaked. If you have any suggestions on what needs to be adjusted to bring them more in line, those are the types of comments we're looking for. These spells can also be adjusted post-patch if they become out of control. With resistances as a new tool alongside the existing favor cost, cooldown, and other metrics, we should be able to tweak them into balance.

I thought having Hypothermia having a reduced timer and difficulty but increased favour was interesting, it gave Vynora's magic more of an identity, and it makes her a stronger mage than Magranon in some ways. Making her more of a back line class.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Noted. Rotting Gut should have a similar damage to Fireheart and Shard of Ice. However, you're probably right that Fireheart and Shard of Ice should be set to 7 seconds instead.

I think that this would be an extremely good change. Rotting gut of course should also have it's favour cost increased to better match FIreheart.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

I did notice some weird interactions with how it functions at certain power levels and with certain types of hits. I believe it has something to do with the current thresholds that are in place to prevent extremely minor wounds and healing. If you could perform a test for me:

  • Take a weapon with 100 LT and record how much health it heals per hit against a target.
  • Take a weapon with 100 ED and record how much health it heals per hit against the same target.

On a 20 body strength character I healed 4.4 health on a 85 LT small maul, with 93 Essence drain I healed 1-1.5 health so it does seem to correctly be 1/3 of the health healed compared to LT, and sorry but I couldn't get a 100 cast because... that's really hard.
As for Essence Drain not healing at all, I think I discovered the problem. When I hit armoured foes like bison or even unicorns with LT, it heals just as it should, but with Essence drain, it almost never heals, and it ALWAYS heals on targets with no armour. Like horses, cows, sheep, etc. While bison and even unicorns who have armour to some extent, it's very rare to almost never.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Do you think that allowing Fo to have a unique passive that reduces the healing resistance penalty might be a good idea? Just throwing out an example, maybe inflict only half the healing resistance penalty when the spell is cast from a Fo priest?

I just think this should apply to freedom. It looks good the way it is now in PvP.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

What situations has the healing resistance from LT been impacting your play on the testing server?

 

I think he just means that it would hinder everyone's LT weapons at rifts if healing spells were flying around, making their weapons almost useless if they're tanking or taking a lot of damage.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Again responded in the quote itself due to bullet matching problems.

Tee-hee.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

it is still equivalent to dragonscale with a 100 cast.

I think the nerf to oakshell is fair than.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Could you go into a bit more detail about this? I'd like some more information about scenarios it's being used in and the results. I've not actually tested the use cases for dispel very thoroughly and getting a picture in my head of how it's currently operating (through numbers) would be very helpful.

It's just annoying going in to combat having a guy just cast dispel and boop! your effect is gone so easily. I casted dispel on myself twice in a row and both of my 90+ power effects got removed, it was only on the third effect that resisted, which took 5 casts to remove, 5 very quick casts btw since dispel is an inexpensive spell that is very fast to cast. I guess the range gets more difficult and it does get more difficult when players are in armour, but getting rid of two effects from someone is so effortless! And as of how it's operating through numbers, a 94 dispel cast is what removed hell strength, I myself am not familiar with coding. So I can't really tell what the operation behind dispel is, I just use examples. I got a ton of 90+ dispel casts in a row with 90 channelling, can't remember if I was wearing armour though.

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:
    • Sounds like an issue with where the damage type is being changed in the order of operations in the combat system. I'll look into it. Thanks for the in-depth testing.

No problem, bear in mind I don't have actual glance number rates appearing before me, but I just noticed that there were multiple instances where I would glance 4-5 times in a row with a spear, and that's not what you would expect from cold damage to scale armour doing. Also I was doing this on Retrograde's scale as he was afk.

Also thank you Sindusk for answering many of our questions and concerns and being cooperative! : >

Edited by Wiolo

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3 minutes ago, Wiolo said:

When I hit armoured foes like bison or even unicorns with LT, it heals just as it should, but with Essence drain, it almost never heals, and it ALWAYS heals on targets with no armour. Like horses, cows, sheep, etc. While bison and even unicorns who have armour to some extent, it's very rare to almost never.

FB/FA have a minimum damage to proc, i imagine new spell has the same and its messing with LT part.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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5 hours ago, Sindusk said:

However, to follow up on my post last week, we've discussed Bloodthirst internally and have some changes planned for it.

 

Any thought to giving an enchant to the WL pantheon to cast on bows, in lieu of BT? Venom, maybe?

 

I'd like -something- useful to cast on a bow to go with Nimbleness and CoC. :)

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13 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

Any thought to giving an enchant to the WL pantheon to cast on bows, in lieu of BT? Venom, maybe?

WL gets nimbleness, BL gets bloodthirst, neither side can fully enchant a bow so having one do all enchants on a bow wouldn't really be equal.

 

on the subject of BT, @Sindusk is there any further info on what the new changes to BT are? and is it going to be limited to Libila or will one of the playergods get it? can't exactly be a lib priest on freedom and have to do stupid workarounds to get a lib chaos player to send me stuff

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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

WL gets nimbleness, BL gets bloodthirst, neither side can fully enchant a bow so having one do all enchants on a bow wouldn't really be equal.

 

According to the wiki, Gary currently has Nimbleness, so it hasn't been equal for a while.

 

If only Vyn will get Nimbleness after the spell list changes, then fair point, but we haven't seen Gary's new list yet.

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