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Priest overhaul testing

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49 minutes ago, CIRAY said:

Here’s a question for the devs, mainly Sindusk: 

 

The artifact weapons currently have demise spells on them (I.e.: Fo’s Demise on the Sceptre of Ascension), will they be completely removed with this update or replaced with something else? 

 

Yes, by all means, lets make the most OP weapon in the game do even MORE ridiculous damage.  Put human's demise on it.... 

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On 10/18/2018 at 12:24 PM, Ecrir said:

 

From what the devs said in a steam I believe the issue is that there's a lot of (legacy) code which links Libila to BL. Thus it would be a huge amount of work to make that possible. I think this is the one, but I don't know at which moment in the steam they talk about it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/303235308

 

 

On 10/18/2018 at 12:25 PM, kochinac said:

From what i've understood reading some old answers on this topic it's because old chaos specific code and conversions from template kingdoms which would make mess on freedom(freedom is not fammiliar with concepts of BL and WL kingdoms), also a lot of cleaning in that code is probably needed before becomes applicable to freedom. Also some devs and people doesn't like mycelium on freedom, have no idea why tbh, expecially now with new Fo spell. I agree with you that it would be best to allow Libila on freedom too and resolve some dubious mechanics that are consecuences of that restrictions and i hope it will happen one day :) In the mean time untill that is done this seem like a reasonable easy enough solution.

Only that libila can be enabled on pve servers on WU. Are they saying that WU code is cleaner and less spaghetti than WO? Also, Libila priests can travel between Epic servers without issues, even to servers that have no mycellium/bl mechanics on them. What gives?

 

Also Libila does not need mycellium to operate. These are two different mechanics.

 

On 10/18/2018 at 2:02 PM, Nocturnes said:

I dont see how the freedomers would accept mycelium growing over the prescence of Libila, the very backbone in pvp is for either WL or BL to maintain dominance in their religion over the servers. Lib followers gets huge benefits from mycelium and they dont really work well on grass. Im not a freedomer so I cant speak for them but I can see that this would bring conflicts with deeds complaining on the myc taking over/infecting their neighbour forests or similiar arguments, maybe im wrong, maybe mycelium wouldnt bother the majority of freedomers if so I could see Lib working in pve too. But it wouldnt make any sense allowing BL on freedom as disguised WLers, its either all the way or not at all.

Thats not how Mycellium works. And even if it wasnt tweaked for pve as it is in many PVE servers, Mycellium does not grow outside of BL kingdom influence which means it will never grow on Freedom as you need to have BL kingdom influence for it to even grow on Freedom, which is impossible.

 

But even if the devs changed the Mycellium code to make it grow on freedom as it does on Chaos, it would require altars which means there would have to be altars everywhere. Even on Chaos and Epic with people actively trying to spread the mycellium the servers arent covered by it. 

 

Thus any concerns about freedom completely destroyed by mycellium are unbiased. Mycellium itself is by design difficult to spread without intentional tweaking.

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Libila dont need mycellium on freedom! And it need not change many code!

 

OK, my account are broken and i have lost most of my skills because i have enter and left chaos and i am libila-priest.

 

Examples altars and libila-spells on freedom:

photo_6811582_2237013552_o.jpg

photo_6811572_3658016341_o.jpg

photo_6811602_3789696962_o.jpg

 

It works fine and without myc. Have fun ....

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Can spell-related (de)buffs incurred from jewelry pleeeease please please be added to show in Spell Effects?
Everything should show in spell effects. It irks me how many things, buffs, and statuses do not.

 

Also upon contemplation, more info about the specifics of how the new jewelry enchants would be nice, as your description in the OP misses out on some specific points;

I am left to assume from your wordage that only jewelry with the same enchants will incur penalties. I.E. Two rings, one with 100 Blaze and one with 100 Glacial means I still get 7.5% to both frost and fire damage? Is this also the same for protection spells? I.E. a ring with Blaze and a ring with Fire Protection?

I am also left to assume that the actual enchant power of the protection and damage-buff spells is directly linear to the % of damage/protection bonus provided.

So if I'm doing my math right, it seems that wearing multiple rings has a maximum net-protection value of around 11.25% assuming all three items were 100 power, and that item QL is not factored in. This only drops to about 10% with two similar items.

 

Also, why did we have to nerf LT so hard? It already has plenty of ways to counter it, it's been quite useful for some time and now, I honestly highly doubt it will ever see much if any use in PvP after this change. Maybe in PvE only.

Ways to counter LT: AOSP on armor. Lead weapons. Using FB or FA instead of BT or RT which groups wound damage. Using smaller, faster hitting weapons...

 

If you use LT in PvP after this change you'll be dubbed a fool, and a dead one at that.

Edited by whereami
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Whatever you do.

Don't make priest able to build and repair PvP and PvE.

Priests should really be unique and you are removing that by removing restrictions for them.

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8 hours ago, whereami said:

Also upon contemplation, more info about the specifics of how the new jewelry enchants would be nice, as your description in the OP misses out on some specific points;

 

Curious to know what impact QL has, as well as material (if any).

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2 hours ago, Sn00 said:

Whatever you do.

Don't make priest able to build and repair PvP and PvE.

Priests should really be unique and you are removing that by removing restrictions for them.

 

As far as I'm concerned, building and repairing is a good thing for priests. The way the new priest spells are laid out makes several of the ones I tried feel more unique, actually. For instance:

 

- Mag: fire mage

- Sme: ice/healer hybrid

- Fo: healer

- Vyn: ice enchantress

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While this update makes so many changes, why not make one more that may actually make priests fun to play rather than being a utility for your next coc cast or collapsing cave tiles (on pve), I mean the number of freedom players who play a priest as a main can be counted on one hand.

 

The passive regen on favor just as well not exist, as it is so slow, increase this rate, maybe something like 20 favor or a minute of time.

 

Add a way to regenerate mana while you are off exploring, one that does not require a wagon with supplies of favor and altar making materials, or bags of pre-casted gems.

 

Why not something as easy as meditation, where you can gain 25 favor every 30 seconds, meditating for up to 2 minutes, so you can cast the odd spell while hunting may actually make a priest fun to play.

 

Gems still have there place for times where you need the favor now, especially in pvp situations, but for casual play meditation and or passive is good too.

Edited by JakeRivers
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If any devs want consultation on enabling Lib on PVE/Freedom servers - talk to me :P

 

I have a WU server running with it for almost 3 years now and the amount of changes needed is pretty minimal.

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On 10/16/2018 at 11:14 PM, AlphaWolfen said:

Spamming spells at all shouldn't be a tactic to win pvp especially healing spells.

 

I agree. Hopefully resistances can be finely tuned enough to address nearly all cases of spamming spells.

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Instead of letting priests do everything why not limit them to their specialty, Mag is the mining God so let his priests be able to do masonry work Build, imp, etc. Another wood, another metal or cloth whatever.  but that way you can solo play a priest but your limited to that God's specialty.  If you want to do everything then you need several priests or a Non priest.

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Rebirth nerf

 

Rebirth was already pretty lame compared to domination.

You can dominate more kinds of "monster" than you can rebirth.

When you dominate your pet it have the same age. When rebirthing a troll you will have max. "aged", even when it was venerable before.

Rebirth only work once, while you can dominate a monster again after it got untame.

 

Dunno why taming, or better pets dont get some love.

You pretty much raise taming to a very high level only for riding hellhorses, which then get often damage from mobs while riding...

Even when i love having pets, it just doesnt doesnt make much sense to use one. When killing mobs you also gain less fs.

But there arent any changes to make taming/charming/dominating/rebirthing better it even gets worse and worse over time...

 

______

 

Oakshell

 

Oakshell was for me only usefull when casting on pets, because who doesnt wear any armor at all!? (beside that monkguy here *g*)

But that spell didnt got only nerfed the resistance value, it got rendered useless at all, because it can only be casted on players and only on chaos.

I bet this spell will now never get used again… 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by zeeph
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"Instead of letting priests do everything why not limit them to their specialty, Mag is the mining God so let his priests be able to do masonry work Build, imp, etc. Another wood, another metal or cloth whatever.  but that way you can solo play a priest but your limited to that God's specialty.  If you want to do everything then you need several priests or a Non priest."

 

This makes sense, I only play one character in Wurm because I always though having an alt just wasn't my cup of tea and I would love to play a Fo priest but the fact I cant imp or continue was not making that possible since I do a lot of solo play. I thought some of the restrictions for the gods made sense except the fact you couldn't imp or continue. I think if they did a slight rework of the restrictions to be specific to the god and took away the imp and continue restrictions then that would make a priest as a main character more viable. What they plan to do from these notes makes a little sense with the spells and the lifting the continue restriction but getting rid of the other restrictions while still having the imping restriction makes no sense at all. If I need to do something that is against my god I will just click the faithful button do what I need, pray and continue on since most times what I need to do doesn't take that long except imping. I stopped being a Fo priest because I couldn't do anything like build or imp things to get better equipment, it made a priest as a main impossible to play.

 

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Casting cleanse on a water tile:
[22:49:39] This spell does not work below water.
 

So what use is this spell on a PvE server exactly?  It doesn't do anything that planting a flower and then cutting it wouldn't do; it costs more than doing it and it's not a restricted action.   This needs a buff, otherwise it will never be used on PvE.

 

-----

 

There doesn't appear to be any cooldown on summon soul, is this intended or just a test feature?

 

-----

 

Did a bit of heal testing with Wiolo; so far the findings are not as bad as I thought, but my conclusion, with the little data I have time to harvest, is that players at rifts will quickly find themselves camped around 50%--70% resistance if they use LT weapons; and this will have a noticable imapct on their longivity.  It will slow those events down; it will also hit unique hunters VERY hard (a positive change).

 

I'd like to request some data to perform solid calculations with; specifically, what is the current rate of heal resistance gained per damage healed?  Is it based on effective health, or percentage healed?  I'd like to devise a formula for the LT "maintenence rate", to see if my observation holds any weight.

 

-----

 

Also morning fog has little to no use at the moment, making it protect against bee stings would make it a nice touch for new priests.

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I'm just going to be reporting some bugs and giving feedback here so bear with me.

  • The damage bonus nerf hasn't seemed to be applied yet to the test server, without damage bonus 16-17 damage, with damage bonus 20-21 I approve of this nerf because it felt required and weighed heavily on non-priests.
  • Scorn of Libila AND Light of Fo don't target high damage wounds yet. Scorn also doesn't apply a healing resistance like it should. Scorn also heals a minimal of 3 wounds as expected, but on one strange instance healed 1 wound.
  • The healing resistances are powerful and annoying. About 150 health healed gives about a 50% healing resistance, so difficult times at rifts. But people do manage with just cotton, most rifts I go to have no healers... But healing that much is uncommon in PvP, which I feel like this is targeted more towards.
  • Venom is at the moment useless, does the same amount of damage to armoured foes and glances still at high power.
  • Glacial and Frost protection type spells are working great and as expected to be working. It DOES effectively improve your weapon damage if it is enchanted with a salve of frost/acid/fire.
  • My face burns right now, why is ther ethe wjea
  • Essence drain seems to heal/heals very rarely..? I hit a unicorn with a 93 Essence drain cast with a small maul 14 times, on only two of those times or 1/7 chance I healed a very small amount of health, about 1.2-2 damage which is way worse than life transfer. But it does cause internal wounds at 10% weapon damage. I hope this is not the way the weapon enchant is staying. Cause that's a enchant that will NEVER be used.
  • Ice pillar and tentacles are rocking socks, deal 9-11 damage to a 90SS player who stays in it through the whole thing, a good way to weaken a team, tentacles seems to deal slightly more damage.
  • Drain health is a pretty nice way to quickly remove 1 wound, which I approve of.
  • Worm brains/hypothermia and inferno are intense, dealing about 25 damage to a 90SS player on a ~50 power cast, and 40 damage to a 35 soul strength player. Casting time takes a long time though so it can be interrupted, which is a good balance.
  • Oakshell is cool still imo, but I feel the DR nerf is a but unnecessary in freedom, I also feel oakshell should still be castable on horses in PvP because it does slow the mount depending on cast power and is dispellable. But eh.
  • Heal is awesome, 10/10 I think it's so much better and it almost always fully heals the target if they aren't affected by pesky healing resistances.
  • Bear paws is nice, I like how it deals more damage now, but why only against players? It's kinda weak/unnoticeable without buff.
  • Dispell resistance should be more powerful, and last longer. Dispell is so unsatisfying and annoying.
  • Rebirth is neat I guess since it can be used on anything, but the fact that you can't equip skeletons is kinda... Yeah. Sad. But it was too powerful before...
  • Frantic charge is much better now that it lasts so much longer. Sad that it doesn't affected horses, would love to see that in PvE at least. : >
  • Lurker in the woods locating legendary creatures may slowly bring an end to the hidden uniques on Xanadu, but champion creatures would get in the way often. I dislike this change in some ways.
  • Fire heart and shard of ice is a b**** and is a quick 10-15 damage done to you that is almost uninterruptible. Should be 7 seconds, and why is rotting gut so cheap but also weak? make it like fire heart and shard! Libila has a large range of damage spells. Don't make her shard of ice type spell weak!
  • The bloodthirst nerf is sad, but bloodthirst has an extra power still of giving more skillgain to that weapon and working well with weapon salves for more concentration of that type of damage.
  • Salves don't change armour glance rates, a spear still glanced like crazy off of scale when using cold. But did deal extra damage due to scale being weak to that damage type.
  • Hypothermia is the best of the three heavy damage spells due to having lower cast time [15 seconds] and difficulty,. Does cost an additional 10 favour though.
  • Tornado is pretty good, deals about 33% less damage than shard and fire heart, but hits all enemies around dealing a good amount of chaos, but takes a while to cast. 74 power tornado dealt 33 damage to all horses around me (I had them angry at me for this to work) and shard of ice was 55 at 94 power.
  • Smite can be weak but powerful... a 21 power cast did 18 damage, less than inferno. Both players had 90 soul strength.
  • Hell strength boosts strength by a decent bit at around 36 body strength, noticed dealing an extra 1 damage to enemies with a small maul that was dealing 6-7 damage, than it became about 7-8 damage. Improved DR as expected at 81 power.
  • Refresh needed a timer reduction, it's much better now. ALSO Drain stamina was pretty cool, restored about 40 stamina at 74 power, and 52 stamina at 94 power, only removed 3% of the enemy's stamina though, just bad in that area...


That's all I have to say for now.

Edited by Wiolo
put it into bullet points
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To everyone that keeps bringing up cleanse, its essentially.. a pvp server spell.  BL kingdoms were able to for many years expand heavily and easily mycellium wherever they choose, on first elevation there was even a guy(s) that changed an entire desert from sand to myc by casting fungus.  Cleanse is the opposite.

 

Fungus makes myc, cleanse removes myc.

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Thanks Retro! I forgot how to do that.

Edited by Wiolo

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Another thing I noticed, zombie horses take almost half as much damage.
And I'm randomly not healing from Light of Fo/Scorn when I'm in surrounded fenced areas? Good stuff though, excited for the update.

Edited by Wiolo

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Hello! Sorry for the spam, I'm going to be reviewing some the changes in a comparative prospective now.
 

  • Vynora: Seems to be not only the best enchanting deity, but one of the best if not the best mage, Hypothermia and shard of ice are intense easy spells that deal great damage, and has good pillar spells making her great in the back lines of combat. I can't help but feel like she should get some form of damage resistance, such as some form of elemental resistance, since Vynora seems to take on a defensive role in PvP with excel and defensive bonuses on roads and seas and what not.
  • Magranon: A very good mage and the best fighting deity, but a bit of lacking in enchanting, this deity is a great miner buddy too, dealing extra damage and having a slightly improved offensive CR and item protection properties, this deity is mean't to be in the direct throws of combat and it's what he's about, has a skillgain bonus in it too and a mild healing spell with a good trade off, this really is the best deity to be if you're fighting enemies up close, and has a great movement speed improving buff, frantic charge, making priests of this deity more mobile, and good in intense battles with mass stamina, but good luck getting that cast off in PvP... 
  • Fo: Still the best healing deity, but also a great rancher, this guy is animal's best friend, being able to tame everything and all, I love how he has so many buff and healing spells, he's just the support class, but I feel like his buff spells have been nerfed a bit too harshly personally, on top of having his healing take a large blow, but the healing has been buffed well which can make up for it in many scenario's, also gets a good combat edge if paired with a powerful pet. And forest giant strength for an extra bit of edge, I can't help but feel like he should get a low tier damage spell, similar to fireheart or shard of ice. He is also a bit poor in enchanting variety, but LT sells well, r-right? well we'll see after the LT nerf. And venom is getting a good buff coming. Plus jewellery enchants will be in high demand, also a decent utility priest for ranchers.
  • Libila: This is a strange one, kind of all over the place, she's a good mage, and a decent healer in some scenarios, but she's also not that good in the front rows of combat, she's also a very good enchanter, close to Vynora in enchanting powers, having BoTD WA and AoSP plus RT BT and ED plus jewellery enchants and alchemy sacrifice, she is a good deity for combat with a tip of combat rating, and a decent healer, and able to call the dead to help out, she's kind of an experience, and I think her absorbing abilities should be tied to her as a passive rather than a kingdom template bonus. As a mage, she's kind of all over the place, her quick spells are very bad for damage, but her high damage easily interruptable spells are the bomb, and cheaper, plus she also has Scorn of Libila, a healing spell capable of being extremely powerful in certain scenario's, and cheap, but a bit weak in damage as expected for such a strong spell. Also a good support class too, with Truehit and hell strength, and can hinder enemies.

            Alright here's where the judgement comes instead of just stating the obvious, player deity's.

  • Smeagain: A strong mage deity, but not much else after having lost LoF + damage, capable of healing well, but not while taking heat. She is however good as a buffer, Truehit, hell strength, and refresh, and can do heal, she will be appreciated on the battle field, but other deity's do her role well, just kind of a strange one. She is also a a poor enchanter, Guess it's a good buffer so people will appreciate her in battle.
  • Paaweelr: This is an interesting mix of a fighting deity and enchanter. Deals 15% more damage and has higher skillgain in combat skills like Magranon while being a Vynora template deity, has Flaming Aura, Nimbleness, Blessing of the Dark and all armour enchants, and has Wisdom of Vynora which is cool for extra sleep bono, and charm animal plus courier, plus hell strength, so in some ways it can be used to deal more damage than magranon, but looses item protection. Also a great mage. Has Hypothermia and feels well balanced, so I approve of this one strongly. And gets wild growth for that oak wood. Also good for Cure Medium.
  • Nahjo: This is a favourite in freedom right now, a great utility priest, , but looses it's valuable alchemy sacrifice, but gains some decent things in return. As an enchanter, this deity is decent, nothing huge, gets to keep WoA. On top of all this, he has gained a 10% skillgain bonus which is very nice. Plus reduced stamina in the woods and 10% favour regen. This deity gains Charm animal too plus oakshell which is nice, and weak as a mage, but does get smite so it can deal great magic damage in certain situations, still has strongwall for utility purposes, but still has lost it's edge from loosing alchemy sacrifice, this deity used to get 10 favour from sacrificing 100QL corn, and now it's gone completely. Dang. I feel Nahjo should at least keep alchemy sacrifice in the midst of all the bonuses and enchants other deity's are getting, has lost LT but gained Essence drain... There's no real reason to pick this one over other deity's, it just feels strange, this deity is not very versatile.
  • Tosiek: This one has gained some things and lost some things, but this one has mainly gained I think, Tosiek has gained 10% skillgain bonus plus alchemy sacrifice and 10% favor regen. As an enchanter is good, not fantastic but good! has gained Blessing of the dark but lost Wind of Ages, which is a good trade off, and gets to keep charm which is nice, this deity has NO armour enchants, but gets RT and LT and MS plus, due to there being no armour enchants, can't help but feel like this one should get Frostbrand/Bloodthirst but oh well. As a mage this one is a bit strong, no powerful quick spells but gets inferno for great damage, also gets Scorn for AoE damage, and because of that it's a powerful healer in group fights/rifts, also gets a 35% chance to keep items through death, making this one feel like a bit of a defensive mage in combat due to no damage bonuses, as a buffer/support this one is good too, getting refresh and hell strength. But looses Truehit. Also has IP and tentacles.
  • Nathan: This boy oh this boy... This is what my main is right now, Nathan looses a bit and gains a lot, this one looses friendly animals but gains friendly monsters instead, so no free hell horse riding, Nathan also gains dominate so this one really has control over monsters, he also looses CoC but instead gains BoTD which is a good trade off, on top of that he keeps his 15% damage bonus and gains alchemy sacrifice but looses skillgain bonus, but gains combat skill gain bonus. As an enchanter this deity is very good, has both armour enchants AoSP plus WA and gains BoTD, also has Venom which will be useful in the future from what has been teased and also has Essence Drain for heavily armoured PvE fighters, also gains 10% favor regen. This deity also gains Scorn of Libila and that's a bit.. too strong? he has all three tiers of single heal spells, Focused Will, Cure Medium, And Cure Serious, so he's a healer and a heavy hitting priest, but unlike Magranon does not have item protection through death, as a mage he is slightly weaker than Tosiek due to loosing pillar spells, but yeah. A great enchanter good healer and damage dealer and mage and has alchemy sacrifice, a scary one.

           Phew that took me a while to write and was a eyeful to read, but that's what I think of every deity in it's current state, can't wait to see what happens to Gary and for the overhaul to go live someday.

Edited by Wiolo
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10 hours ago, Wiolo said:

I'm just going to be reporting some bugs and giving feedback here so bear with me.

 

  • Essence drain seems to heal/heals very rarely..? I hit a unicorn with a 93 Essence drain cast with a small maul 14 times, on only two of those times or 1/7 chance I healed a very
  • Rebirth is neat I guess since it can be used on anything, but the fact that you can't equip skeletons is kinda... Yeah. Sad. But it was too powerful before...

 

Nice reports Wiolo! :)

Essence of drain seems like it needs a rework but its an interesting spell, sounds pretty unique and with just some tweaking it could become a viable spell.

 

Rebirth needs also to be discussed more, the equipment on corpses is to powerful, specialy when you can swap out a troll club with an enchanted large maul, hence the nerf was needed.

However trolls should just spawn as a zombie with their club equipped so you cant unequip it and player corpses shouldnt be able to have armour at all but should get a bonus from their body stats and FS skills calculated into their brawl/bite dmg as a zombie. Rebirth should now also keep the age of the animal, for a pet that only lasts 24h and cant be ressurected more then once and also has the CR nerf of the age makes it kinda "meh" with lack of better words. 

 

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7 hours ago, Wiolo said:

A strong mage deity, but not much else after having lost LoF + damage, capable of healing well, but not while taking heat. She is however good as a buffer, Truehit, hell strength, and refresh, and can do heal, she will be appreciated on the battle field, but other deity's do her role well, just kind of a strange one that isn't really great for anything, but the point of this update was to draw people to the player deity's. She is also a a poor enchanter, Why would you pick this one..? it's trash.

 

Sme does have RT, which is huge (at least to me). Also, Sme is the only WL priest with Truehit, and the only WL priest with a full suite of elemental attack spells (shard, hypo, pillar of ice) -plus- multiple heals (even if LoF is gone), so can be uniquely useful in combat too.

 

If I read the lists right, in the WL pantheon, Paaweelr's only unique spell is Corrosion, and Nahjo's only unique spell is Essence Drain. Paaweelr gets combat bonuses, sure, but if I wanted a combat priest, why not just go Mag?

 

(Granted, this may only matter on Epic to those with multiple priests.)

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So no interest in my idea for improving favor regen at all for priests?

 

Everyone is happy with the current sacrifice/gem system as the only option?

 

 

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I see 2 options there. Also, if favor regen was increased too much, that would be an in-game market that would be completely removed. If you could regen all of your favor in 1-2 minutes, nobody would bother sacrificing stuff.

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1 minute ago, zethreal said:

I see 2 options there. Also, if favor regen was increased too much, that would be an in-game market that would be completely removed. If you could regen all of your favor in 1-2 minutes, nobody would bother sacrificing stuff.

 

Really the market?

 

That will not change for those that grind.

 

The market is the last thing I would be concerned with in wurm, it really is not that big a deal.

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I forgot I called Smeagain trash haha! I removed that when I saw it this morning, I wrote that late at night and was tired, which explains the strange sentence errors throughout it. I changed Smeags log a bit.
Also @JakeRiversAlchemy bonus and chopping bonus is great for farmers, but I would like to see favour regen doubled at least, but it's just not happening knowing the devs vision, maybe some sort of mana system for attack/heal spells.

And third... I also noticed Tosiek is like, the best channelling grinding deity, 10% skill bonus paired with Morning fog, ward, LITD You get 10 diff than 20 diff, than 30 diff (jewellery protection spell) than 50 than 60, it really holds your hand.  Plus best of all, alchemy sacrifice.

Edited by Wiolo

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