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10 minutes ago, Jaz said:

Isn't it that way with any other item in Wurm? Can carpenters craft their own imping tools?

 

A carpenter can create bad tools and imp them and get the skill to make good tools.  A priest can create a bad statuette, but they cannot get the skill or ability to make good statuettes.  Priests cannot improve their own altar for faith bonus to cast better, but they can easily make up for it by keeping their alignment maxed out, and keeping enchanting bonus high in any way they deem fit for them such as cordage ropes, or even just getting over 90 faith helps as well which they can do on their own.

 

It's not a pre-existing situation, so it's adding a negative "qol" to priests.  I do not think "this is good for my wallet" is a good reason to excuse it either.  It's just another extra necessity, and to a lesser extent another requirement in the grand list of many for being pvp "ready"

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

 

A carpenter can create bad tools and imp them and get the skill to make good tools.  A priest can create a bad statuette, but they cannot get the skill or ability to make good statuettes.  Priests cannot improve their own altar for faith bonus to cast better, but they can easily make up for it by keeping their alignment maxed out, and keeping enchanting bonus high in any way they deem fit for them such as cordage ropes, or even just getting over 90 faith helps as well which they can do on their own.

 

It's not a pre-existing situation, so it's adding a negative "qol" to priests.  I do not think "this is good for my wallet" is a good reason to excuse it either.  It's just another extra necessity, and to a lesser extent another requirement in the grand list of many for being pvp "ready"

Non-priests can't exactly cast spells or enchantments, so it's actually fairly balanced that way.

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Having ql affect difficulty could help fine tune channeling to be more effective with grinding which is huge pain or to be successful more in casting, there is also benefit to priests from this... As for argument priests can't make it I don't really get it, as stated several time by many players it's mmo it's intended to be a little dependent on others. Crafters need priests for spells, priests need crafters for a good ql rake so they can be more efficient with large fields for example, they and other crafters needs weapons from weaponsmith if they wanna increase their chances in fight, why would it be different with statues?

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This notion is disimilar in two major ways:

 

1.  If a crafter needs to make tools/weapons/armour, they COULD train their smithing skills at the same pace as everyone else, a priest can not without losing their faith progress.

2.  Magic works very differently from regular crafting, it is purely RNG and fails during enchanting are especially devestating (no other craft fail destroys an item).

 

What you are suggesting would be akin to saying that "certain tools can only be used to imp above a certain level if they are enchanted by a mid--high level priest"; definitely not a state of affairs any crafter would accept!

 

I most certainly would NOT like runes to interact with statuettes, unless of course runes suddenly needed specific spells to activate them (brings more player interaction).

 

 

All that said though, I would not be adverse to statuette QL impacting certain kinds of spells (reducing mandatory shatter during enchants to be precise).

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On one hand, I like the idea of statuette QL, runes, enchants, and rarity (especially rarity) being useful. On the other hand, I -wouldn't- want those changes balanced such that all the bells and whistles would be needed just to remain at the same enchanting/skilling effectiveness as now: that's just adding chores.

 

The only way I'd want to see changes is if they made things better overall for priests.

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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

The only way I'd want to see changes is if they made things better overall for priests.

I think this is very fair.
I think a better solution is to ease up certain aspects of priesthood, and having statuette quality affect success can be a hindrance or a plus, but as I said before, being a priest is way more expensive and taxing on the mind than being a crafter.
With that said... Having priest to require a high QL statuette would be "expensive" and I'm all for making priesthood grinding less expensive, Crafters use a few 90QL logs or a few 90QL lumps and with spindles, needles, etc... that's enough to last them months sometimes when just grinding. As for priests? 15s worth of chopped veggies can last you like 2 weeks if you play enough, and you can only gain about 5-10 channeling levels from that depending on your skill. Unless if you're like a master farmer, or a master miner and locksmith... That's not an easy thing at all for newbies to get in to. Increase statuette quality requirement for casting or some form of maintenance could prove difficult.
I'm not fond of making CoC work with statuette's, but I am all for other ways to increase difficulty and reduce difficulty of spells.

Edited by Wiolo

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With this attitudes sometimes I really think that simply ditching all priest restrictions and allowing everyone to be everything 100% is the best solution for this game I swear to god. Priest and crafter in one character would make this game much more fun and enjoyable and will end ton of debates like this. And I am not even sarcastic.

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54 minutes ago, kochinac said:

With this attitudes sometimes I really think that simply ditching all priest restrictions and allowing everyone to be everything 100% is the best solution for this game I swear to god. Priest and crafter in one character would make this game much more fun and enjoyable and will end ton of debates like this. And I am not even sarcastic.

 

Just update to the lore to match, maybe add multiple specific channeling categories (enchanting, divination, life, death, fire, ice, etc.), and go for it. :)

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9 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

Just update to the lore to match, maybe add multiple specific channeling categories (enchanting, divination, life, death, fire, ice, etc.), and go for it. :)

Yeah, I know that suggestion my and I very much like it and would like to see it in game one day. There is a problem of distribution of channeling skill, I say let us choose one of subtrees to transfer skill and grind rest from zero... But it would sove wining of being s priest is prerequisite for pvp and imbalance between crafter warriors and priest warriors, will solve endless  compromises for priest qol versus being balanced with crafters, will partially solve people having too much alts (i mean people will still have alts, dual boxing is the way to play this game right), and will make game more fun. Imo you can be anything you want if you put time in it even a priest crafter is a true Wurm :)

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I spent 10c on my 85 cloth tailoring grind, I spent 15s to get to only 50 channelling. That's 150x more expensive to get not even halfway to 85 (in terms of XP gain). And probably ~500-999x more expensive if using gems,
I mean... I guess you could allow priests to improve... but going all out with that would be like the wild west, everyone has spells and buffs and powers and what not, it wouldn't feel the same being a priest if everyone was one.
Going to a rift for example and being a healer wouldn't feel the same if there were like 10 other people casting LoF.
I'd feel... okay I guess if improving was allowed for only a certain set of skills depending on priest.
Magranon: smithing Masonry. Fo: Tailoring Pottery and Masonry. Vynora: Pottery, Carpentry. Libila: Smithing, Carpentry. (Those are just examples) Plus ropemaking improvement for all.
And a 20% reduction in QL gain on successful improvement action, but a 20% reduction in damage taken on failure, so improving isn't harder, it's just slower.
I think I'd feel okay with that.
 

Edited by Wiolo

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Also don't get it why people have to compare how much they spent on which grind... I didn't spend a dime on grinding a priest to 93, never used gems, I grinded farming to 94+ on priest parralel with channeling, if you argue about amount of mats I spent and it's value I spent unreal amount of cotton strings grinding ropemaking to 91. I payed ton of money for keeping weapon and shield in shape because I don't have weapon smithing and shielsmithing on my main after all these years and grinding fighting to 90+ skills wrecks your weapon and shield so fast. What about people grinding metalurgy, how much lumps they need to burn to get to 90+ skill. Statues don't even take dmg on use iirc there is no cost of maintaining ql on them once they are high ql, is paying 1s for 90ql statue really that much to have better enchants?

P.S. even if you are buying veggies for casting (not for grinding) you can easily get atleast 3 times value in enchants from that investment...

Edited by kochinac

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7 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

Let priests be jewelsmiths, problem solved

 

You can let priests be fine carpetners, jewelers, and stone cutters as far as I'm concerned so they can grind for making runes as well while we are at that path... Or we can totally ditch every part of class system, put everything to be a matter of dedication and time spent and not restrictions and make Wurm great again :)

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A pair of points about shatter and enchant: enchanting and, in general, having a priest are tedious things that most ppl overcome by making an alt with priesthood and let him sit all the time regenerating favor and, sometimes, pray at an altar. Basically, all other functions over a priest are ZERO use by players, and since the introduction of chopped veggies, it's even more of a mindless grinding experience based on sacrifice and random, worthless casts: the more you cast, the better you get at, wich is incredibly tiresome.
Shatter indeed is a prevention on getting very nice items enchanted for better bonuses (wich is not bad as a thing, if we could get more rares, but that's not the case, so...), metallic liquid and less shatter runes are an interesting way to overcome this penality, but: different metals shatter bonuses works ONLY on a few items, as you really don't want a golden pickaxe, rune bonuses are very, very low compared to the fact that these runes prevent dispell by staying on top of the enchant lists, and metallic liquid is incredibly hard to get and is basically a one-use item.

What i will do in this case is this: make the whole enchanting items a different thing. Saccing for getting favor is nice, but i'll get rid of the two ways to raise channeling so fast, namely nacho cover item saccing and reconverting, and the silly chopped veggies sac. Then i move the channeling skillgain and enchant powers to this: the more you enchant an item, the more power you may get and the more skillgain you get (wich is partially already like that). A low power cast will simply use LESS favor than now and less skill gain, then you recast to get increases in power of 5-10 power each time with increased difficulty (and with that, increased skillgain). Over time, this method makes you get better casts only if you continuously cast on the item, but this will give you also better casted items and better skillgain, while the first cast is somewhere like the "creation ql for items"; no more need for dispel over items and try again.

To reduce shatter: move the runes down into the list f you want to keep the dispel mechanics, steel should have a significant bonus to shatter, as like to reach maybe 40% with the rune bonuses, staying at the same level as the worse moonmetals. I think we could also produce metallic liquid by smelting down rare ores/lumps, wich will give a bit of liquid that then needs to be blessed and in a fixed quantity for any item, like a dye.

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What would population be if you let all characters do everything after ?

Will it go up with new players returning or down since people wont need alts now ?

 

As for priest being able to craft , I mentioned before give them a cap of say 50 tops in other skills if its that much of a issue .

Same as crafters who want to have priest skills , cap it at 50 still good enough to do most things .

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42 minutes ago, Damascus said:

What would population be if you let all characters do everything after ?

Will it go up with new players returning or down since people wont need alts now ?

 

As for priest being able to craft , I mentioned before give them a cap of say 50 tops in other skills if its that much of a issue .

Same as crafters who want to have priest skills , cap it at 50 still good enough to do most things .

I reckon it would be more real people less alts (not necessarily more logged players as a lot of logged players now are alts), also with everyone being able to do anything I think breaking channeling into several subskills for different type of casts is needed, or still keep gods system so you can be crafter and vyn priests but still won't be able to cast Fo spells and still would need alt/other player for that... I prefer the first way. I am well aware that this change is not very likely to happen, but seriously no matter how much compromises devs includes there is always something missing and someone complaining about  something, so logical conclusion by me is, go to hell with it and just remove all restrictions... And actually on paper it doesn't look that bad for me and provides a lot of benefits over the bad side of it, would certainly be interesting to see atleast experiment a year long with it, idk. Compromises is a deal where both sides are unhappy with result also :)

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I'm still not a fan of the idea of letting priests improve anything. Like I said, being a priest feels special because there aren't a huge amount of people who are amongst them, removing restrictions means... everyone's a priest!
And as far as I understand, what's trying to be done is making priest mains a thing, and easier for newer players, which is why I'm putting these points into view, into view. Having 70-90 farming is not a quick or an easy task, but it does make independence (not having to buy anything to grind) satisfying.
I do believe in making shattering no longer a thing however, and reducing sacrificing timers (or allowing casting while sacrificing)
This whole talk about removing all restrictions bothers me quite a bit, it removes the magic (no pun intended) of being a priest. BUT I do think all priests should be able to preform all labour tasks. (Woodcutting mining digging farming)
The concept of breaking channelling down into a few other skills is fun and all, but it wouldn't sit well for people who already have high channelling. (maybe)
I'd like if there was a few skills broken from channelling personally. for example. (just me having fun) Enchanting: Improves the success and max cast power of enchantment spells (FB AoSP LoTW etc) Power: Determines success of damage spells and determines success of dominate, rebirth, and buff/debuff spells and healing. Knowledge: determines success of vessel, dirt, strongwall, mole senses, etc, utility and rite and reveal spells basically. Channelling: Taps in to all other casting skills, like smithing. And reduces favor cost when casting by 2.5% per every 10 levels.

That was just me having fun, I don't expect the devs to do anything like that. And I think it would conflict with a lot of stuff and create hassle personally. And be a huge headache for those who already have 99 channelling.

Edited by Wiolo

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The best way to allow priests to do anything but also not have every single character be a priest is have other classes. Add knights, wizard, warlocks, peasants, footmen, etc. All with their own powers that make them comparable to priests, and thus valid options.

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38 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

The best way to allow priests to do anything but also not have every single character be a priest is have other classes. Add knights, wizard, warlocks, peasants, footmen, etc. All with their own powers that make them comparable to priests, and thus valid options.

I apsolutly disagree, the main reason i play Wurm is that unlike other games it doesn't have classes and you are not limited by number of professions you can take.Priests already ruin that concept quite a bit. Not sure i would be playing it anymore with classes tbh

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10 hours ago, Darmalus said:

The best way to allow priests to do anything but also not have every single character be a priest is have other classes. Add knights, wizard, warlocks, peasants, footmen, etc. All with their own powers that make them comparable to priests, and thus valid options.

 

I'd rather allow anyone to be priests, and then add a bunch of priest skills. The true class distinction in Wurm is the time require to level up a skill; opportunity cost is Wurm's strength. I see no need for hard, static classes.

 

So, if you wanted to learn all priest and crafting skills, you could do so, but it would take a very long time.

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What I'm most curious about is, will PvE finally get its Vynora missions back with this change?

 

After all, if priests following different deities are able to link up, the advantage Vynora once had in PvP will be gone as well. Or am I seeing  things wrong here?

 

 

Thorin :)

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