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You can kill a troll with 90ql studded leather and a decent nimb lt 2h wep on 1fs 20 str acc nerfing it a bit doesn't really phase me.  Mobs can be kited and seperated, and could always have been a tos priest as wl kingdom.

 

Resistance is based off how much is healed so lt'ing a 1 wound wont give you immunity or anything.

 

Balancing a spell around newbies is a bit strange, seeing as they generally don't have access to such a weapon. 10% healing debuff or w/e isnt going to get them killed, them being newbies is gonna get them killed.

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Yeah, mobs can always be kited: but that's tedious. LT means doing less of the tedious stuff.

 

Really, what harm is LT doing? It's useful for some things, for sure, but not everything.

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Its going to be exactly the same for pve. No mobs going to damage you enough for you to stack enough resistance to matter while fighting it, unless you fight multiple mobs nonstop for 10+ minutes. Try it out on the test server it doesn't stack very fast unless you get a full heal or lof

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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Let's see: you've said the following:

 

1) BT is better than LT any day.

2) The LT nerf will have no practical effect on PvE.

 

Assuming that's true, why exactly is LT being nerfed?

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Well, speaking for myself of course, I like LT the way it is now and not looking forward to it changing, because I just don't trust that it's "not going to change for pve."  And if it's not going to change for pve, then how 'bout not changing it for pve.  lol.  I mean, make the change on pvp servers only, if that's possible.   Or just leave it alone.  I don't see who it's hurting.

 

I spent the first couple years in this game not doing any fighting at all simply because it was nothing more than a huge PITA and no fun.  Fight a mob, stop (if possible), heal, repair, rinse, repeat.  I just don't have any masochistic tendencies.   It's still a pita sometimes even now with 86 fs but at least with LT I don't have to have down time between every mob (only every other mob lol), to heal and repair damage to armor and weapon, etc.  Was worse when I was using a shield and 1h weapon because the stupid shield damage is so excessive.    I learned the hard way, multiple times, not to begin combat with less than high health when possible.

Edited by Amadee
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Was LT not nerfd awhile back ?

Giving less heals amount in the first place?

 

If this resist thing comes into play for spells , that I can see many games use spell to lvl resist .

Now you are talking about a buff added to a weapon .. LT ... has anyone wondered that this may also effect the use of cotton or healing covers in some way or another .

 

Just add new skill resist the higher it is the less chance to get penalty from weapon or spell effecting you...

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Its having its base mechanics reworked and can open it up to further buffs or changes down the road.

 

LT is broken on lower skilled characters like i said before so thats good enough reason for its healing to get halved against mobs but what do i care, i dont use it because theres no normal mobs that hits me or my alts for over 5 dmg.

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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

LT is broken on lower skilled characters like i said before so thats good enough reason for its healing to get halved against mobs

 

"Broken" is a matter of perspective. Lower-skilled characters can't make high QL armor or weapons, either, but those help newbies tremendously. The fact that LT can be a huge help to a newer player is by no means "broken".

 

From my perspective, LT simply works. It's convenient, useful, and makes mob action more fun. So, stereotypically, the devs want to break it and increase the tedium of Wurm gameplay, especially for newer players. :(

 

If anything, LT needs a buff, to be a viable choice in PvP.

 

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They cant make it sure, but if you're going off things they can make they'll have trouble killing a troll at 70fs with fighting skills because their weapon will be 50ql or lower, and an hour of foraging is enough to get an 80+lt cast which will make you near unkillable in pve unless you play like a moron so its not like its inaccessible or anything.

 

Again the change does absolutely nothing in pve go on the test server and you'll see its near no different. You're making it sound like its power was cut to 1/10 of what it is and it makes the game unplayable, when in reality you're going to be 100% hp after every mob same as before

 

Most people i know have an lt small mauls for when they're focused so its not like its useless

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Given no one has actually tested this yet discussing a "nerf" without actually experiencing it is not going to help at all. 

 

I have played with it thoroughly, and there is no noticeable difference to LT hunting, what the major difference is in with heavy damage scenarios with healing spells going off a lot, and taking a lot of damage. 

 

We have not stated that it doesnt heal certain types of wounds or anything, it works exactly the same as before. 

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Just jumped on test.

healing from 18 health to 100 health led to a 5 minute or 50% resistance. 

 

Fighting a troll at 100% health with a 5 minute (50%) resistance and 50 weapon skill, 70 fs, 80ql chain, and 90 LT on my weapon led to being at 73% health with a 6 minute (60%) resistance.

 

As for the other arguments, 

LT eliminates an entire point of combat, any means of actually risky combat isthrown out the window and it simply becomes "park on a mob until it dies and then move on" 

 

The tactical side of "is this fight something I can win" or "Can i do this without taking too much damage" becomes moot which actually makes combat boring and tedious because you simply walk up to anything and whack it and move on and you don't have to care about anything beyond "wheres a pig to heal up on" . The ability to just find any neutral easy creature and heal up before returning to the right doesn't make combat interesting or change anything beyond removing any consequences of picking a fight that might be tough for you. This isn't about new players at all, and given that most new players do not have access to LT, nor will they be running around fighting trolls 

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Heck yeah, told it like it is Retrograde.

But yeah, I found that I actually enjoyed PvE more when I switched away from LT... killing fast and seeing how hard I could hit was fun to me, and if you're in good armour then most mobs will never hit you for more than 5 damage. Which is healed with just 1 healing tick, especially if you're a Fo follower, cotton is not a hard thing to use. It's light and it can be used 10 times per piece, to heal any wound that reaches 10 or more damage.

Edited by Wiolo

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pro tip, get some cotton enchanted with coc, if you're healing may as well gain skill! 

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I feel like a lot of people have forgotten how good healing ticks are because they never even get to happen with all these LT lovers.

Managing health adds more depth to combat and consequence to your actions.

Life transfer makes you have to hit more, dealing more damage to your weapons too.

Edited by Wiolo

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

As for the other arguments, 

LT eliminates an entire point of combat, any means of actually risky combat isthrown out the window and it simply becomes "park on a mob until it dies and then move on" 

 

The tactical side of "is this fight something I can win" or "Can i do this without taking too much damage" becomes moot which actually makes combat boring and tedious because you simply walk up to anything and whack it and move on and you don't have to care about anything beyond "wheres a pig to heal up on" . The ability to just find any neutral easy creature and heal up before returning to the right doesn't make combat interesting or change anything beyond removing any consequences of picking a fight that might be tough for you. This isn't about new players at all, and given that most new players do not have access to LT, nor will they be running around fighting trolls 

 

PvE combat is -already- boring and risk free (you're not hunting on foot, I hope, and why melee trolls if you can shoot them?). The only real difference LT makes to me now is eliminating the need to periodically stop and go through the annoyance of individually healing a bunch of tiny wounds (which is a lot of clicking).

 

As a newer player, however, the instant I got an LT weapon, combat changed from frustratingly-repetitive kiting to a pleasant gain of experience. I very much appreciate those who made it possible for me to enjoy LT early in my Wurm life, which is why I've in turn enjoyed making LT available to newer players. I'd hate to see that lost.
 

Again, the real problem here isn't LT. It's PvE. LT simply masks the problems with ordinary PvE combat, making the repetition endurable.

 

In short, LT automates drudgery. Removing that won't magically make PvE combat interesting (the same meaningless combat with infinite wolves, bears, spiders, and whatnot we've all faced our entire Wurm lives).

 

And even if the current nerf to LT is ineffectual, it speaks to intent, and the next nerf may not be so ineffectual.

 

Sigh. :(

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On 9/12/2018 at 11:26 AM, Darmalus said:

Quick questions:

  1. Will there be a way to tell what god a character is following? Right now when (not if) I forget I have to go down a row of altars and try to pray at each one.
  2. With demigods and gods being more tightly bound, will we still have demigod altars or will they convert/merge? Just having 4 altars would certainly make for less cluttered churches and allow the devs to invest in more artistic differentiation if they don't need to add new ones.

 

I love the idea of Removing player god altars.

 

Less cluttered churches.

 

No longer needed since the domain of "grouped" gods will be shared.

And maybe it will let us eventually have unique Altars for each god grouping.

I'm also hoping that player gods will now use the statuette of their parent god.

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The tactical side of "is this fight something I can win" or "Can i do this without taking too much damage" becomes moot which actually makes combat boring and tedious because you simply walk up to anything and whack it and move on

 

One more thing on this:

 

The only PvE mobs I can solo but still fear are Valrei mobs (LT notwithstanding), but I almost never see them now (no matter how many missions we complete).

 

I find it somewhat ironic that "making PvE combat more interesting" is a justification for nerfing LT, when nerfing Valrei mobs did far more to -remove- risk and interesting combat from PvE (at least on Epic).

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6 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

I find it somewhat ironic that "making PvE combat more interesting" is a justification for nerfing LT, when nerfing Valrei mobs did far more to -remove- risk and interesting combat from PvE (at least on Epic).

LT was not nerfed, it's exactly the same and you'll be fine, I've already given the details

 

the slippery slope fallacy is not a logical statement, changing something once does not mean it's more likely to change again, that's not how this works.

 

I'll give you a LT sword on test and spawn a bunch of mobs if you'd like 

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

This isn't about new players at all, and given that most new players do not have access to LT, nor will they be running around fighting trolls 

 

Unless they are in northern Xanadu (and maybe other servers), where at time it seems like every tree has a troll behind it. Whatever happened to sorting out the mob distribution across the server? Or is it just that we still living with the problems caused by the old distribution, and the mob pathing changes bringing them down off of the mountains.

 

Maybe those thinking that LT was nerfed awhile ago are thinking of the bug fix a year ago...

 

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4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

PvE combat is -already- boring and risk free (you're not hunting on foot, I hope, and why melee trolls if you can shoot them?). The only real difference LT makes to me now is eliminating the need to periodically stop and go through the annoyance of individually healing a bunch of tiny wounds (which is a lot of clicking).

 

...
 

Again, the real problem here isn't LT. It's PvE. LT simply masks the problems with ordinary PvE combat, making the repetition endurable.

 

In short, LT automates drudgery. Removing that won't magically make PvE combat interesting (the same meaningless combat with infinite wolves, bears, spiders, and whatnot we've all faced our entire Wurm lives).

This is about as accurate as it gets. The simple truth is that combat, especially PvE combat, in Wurm is very one-dimensional. You walk up to a mob, target it, and proceed with waiting as dice roll and you watch the fight play out. Without LT, you end the fight at low health and need to perform maintenance (healing your wounds with cotton). Maintenance isn't fun. The current existence of LT makes it so you end the fight at near-full or full health. This removes the maintenance, and makes it less obnoxious to participate in combat.

 

It was a very specific target to make the changes to healing only affect extreme healing scenarios. Furthermore, existing healing spells have been buffed (especially for high channeling and high casts) to make them more powerful and counteract the new healing resistance. It's pretty much fine for you to fight a troll over the course of a minute, take 30% damage, and heal it back up through Life Transfer. The healing resistance debuff isn't going to impact you that much (capping out at ~15% resistance, and dropping over ~3 minutes under those circumstances). However, if you are for example fighting a Goblin Leader and using LT and spamming Cure Light using your alt to ensure that the target of the goblin leader never dies... that's the targeted change. In the past, I've watched a player tank a dragon indefinitely through the use of a Fo alt constantly spamming Cure Light on every wound that was inflicted. Whenever the dragon would land a hit, the wound would be healed 10 seconds later without penalty. The new healing resistance system incurs exactly the penalty required to mitigate this case. This also has a profound effect on PvP combat and specialization, giving credence to utilizing Path of Love and a more healing-oriented priest rather than a fully-armoured frontline Path of Insanity SOTG priest.

 

TLDR: If you're playing the game normally and not doing some silly strategy to make it so you're taking no damage in extremely short time frames, you're not going to notice the difference. This will come out more clearly during public testing.

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3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

TLDR: If you're playing the game normally and not doing some silly strategy to make it so you're taking no damage in extremely short time frames, you're not going to notice the difference. This will come out more clearly during public testing.

 

Well if this is how it actually plays out in practice, then no harm, no foul I guess.  (as I said before, I have a low trust threshold when it comes to Wurm Nerfs, lol.)   All this talk of "making pve combat more interesting" has me concerned tbh because I don't find the concept of down time between every fight to be interesting.  And I found the concept of adding even more down time between mobs to be even less interesting. 

 

Seems to me that healing resistance for healing spells cast by a priest during a fight will probably accomplish what you're after, although I'm sure unique tank fighters aren't going to find that very interesting, but I'm still skeptical about including LT in all this. 

 

Also I'm still a bit unclear on if this applies also to healing with cotton.  Is that going to be resisted as well?  I may have missed something in this thread. 

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5 hours ago, Sindusk said:

This is about as accurate as it gets. The simple truth is that combat, especially PvE combat, in Wurm is very one-dimensional. You walk up to a mob, target it, and proceed with waiting as dice roll and you watch the fight play out. Without LT, you end the fight at low health and need to perform maintenance (healing your wounds with cotton). Maintenance isn't fun. The current existence of LT makes it so you end the fight at near-full or full health. This removes the maintenance, and makes it less obnoxious to participate in combat.

 

It was a very specific target to make the changes to healing only affect extreme healing scenarios. Furthermore, existing healing spells have been buffed (especially for high channeling and high casts) to make them more powerful and counteract the new healing resistance. It's pretty much fine for you to fight a troll over the course of a minute, take 30% damage, and heal it back up through Life Transfer. The healing resistance debuff isn't going to impact you that much (capping out at ~15% resistance, and dropping over ~3 minutes under those circumstances). However, if you are for example fighting a Goblin Leader and using LT and spamming Cure Light using your alt to ensure that the target of the goblin leader never dies... that's the targeted change. In the past, I've watched a player tank a dragon indefinitely through the use of a Fo alt constantly spamming Cure Light on every wound that was inflicted. Whenever the dragon would land a hit, the wound would be healed 10 seconds later without penalty. The new healing resistance system incurs exactly the penalty required to mitigate this case. This also has a profound effect on PvP combat and specialization, giving credence to utilizing Path of Love and a more healing-oriented priest rather than a fully-armoured frontline Path of Insanity SOTG priest.

 

TLDR: If you're playing the game normally and not doing some silly strategy to make it so you're taking no damage in extremely short time frames, you're not going to notice the difference. This will come out more clearly during public testing.

 

Fair enough. :) As Amadee said, however, I'm still skeptical of healing resistance applying to LT. In your dragon/GL scenario, I can't see LT being of much use; are you really going to leech enough to make a difference?

 

The real exploit sounds like Cure Light, not LT. (Cure Light, incidentally, sounds like a really weak beer... :P )

 

Quote

The new healing resistance system incurs exactly the penalty required to mitigate this case. This also has a profound effect on PvP combat and specialization, giving credence to utilizing Path of Love and a more healing-oriented priest rather than a fully-armoured frontline Path of Insanity SOTG priest.

 

How is PoL being made more viable by these changes? Will a priest with PoL have more effective healing spells?

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30 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

How is PoL being made more viable by these changes? Will a priest with PoL have more effective healing spells?

 

Healing Hands

Gained at level 11.

Healing Hands is a passive ability that gives the player a 50% bonus to healing actions. This means that the healer will apply up to 50% extra healing when bandaging themselves or other players. They will also receive 50% more health from Life Transfer weapons.

Mouse-Over Description: "Improves the effectiveness of healing actions and natural regeneration by a factor of 1.5"

 

now PLEASE ROCCANDIL STFU till you've tested it out

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22 minutes ago, Deth666 said:

 

Healing Hands

Gained at level 11.

Healing Hands is a passive ability that gives the player a 50% bonus to healing actions. This means that the healer will apply up to 50% extra healing when bandaging themselves or other players. They will also receive 50% more health from Life Transfer weapons.

Mouse-Over Description: "Improves the effectiveness of healing actions and natural regeneration by a factor of 1.5"

 

I'm aware of the description, but it doesn't specifically mention healing spells.

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