Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) I live in Brazil and I buy monthly membership, but in my country 10 euros go for 54R$, which is way too expensive to pay for a membership. It's hard to even have ONE account for me and my friends, im even considering paying with in game currency, but that sucks. I was thinking that wurm could do the same as games like Runescape has through the company "Boa Compra" (runescape is currently 12R$ and 11U$. If 11$ would be converted in R$ it would be 50R$), the membership has different values in major countries ou continents, like europe, australia, africa, brazil, where you can pay less for premium because of your location. If the price continue high like that I don't know if I will continue playing. Too expensive! A cheaper membership could even encourage more people to pay membership or have more accounts. Products and prices in Brazil for comparison: 1 liter of gasoline: 4,2 R$ (gallon: 16 R$) Can of coca-cola: 3 R$ Snickers bar: 2,5 R$ Bottled water: 2 R$ 1kg of rice: 4,3 R$ Subscription/Minimum wage USA: 11,63/1160 = 1% of the salary Germany: 10/1498 = 0,66% of the salary Brazil: 45/948 = 4,7% of the salary South america company paying company "boa Compra": https://boacompra.com/ Edited September 6, 2018 by Agorafilia 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 5, 2018 I'm still waiting for CCAB to take my cryptocurrency. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) No. Edited September 5, 2018 by FranktheTank Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Trake said: I'm still waiting for CCAB to take my cryptocurrency. Some companies have mixed feelings about cryptocurrency 49 minutes ago, Sklo:D said: too late why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Agorafilia said: I live in Brazil and I buy monthly membership, but in my country 10 euros go for 54R$, which is way too expensive to pay for a membership. It's hard to even have ONE account for me and my friends, im even considering paying with in game currency, but that sucks. I was thinking that wurm could do the same as games like Runescape has through the company "Boa Compra" (runescape is currently 12R$ and 11U$. If 11$ would be converted in R$ it would be 50R$), the membership has different values in major countries ou continents, like europe, australia, africa, brazil, where you can pay less for premium because of your location. If the price continue high like that I don't know if I will continue playing. Too expensive! A cheaper membership could even encourage more people to pay membership or have more accounts. Can you put your currency into more perspetive? For instance, for us to understand, what is the price of 1 litre or gallong of gasoline. How much is a candy bar in a store? The price of a soda in a store? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said: Can you put your currency into more perspetive? For instance, for us to understand, what is the price of 1 litre or gallong of gasoline. How much is a candy bar in a store? The price of a soda in a store? Sure, it is a little more inflated than american dolar or euro. I'll try to give universal examples. Today I pay 54 R$ after conversion costs(1 month plus 1 silver, 2 months subscription is about 45 R$ every month) 1 liter of gasoline: 4,2 R$ (gallon: 16 R$, gasoline is expensive around here) Can of coca-cola: 3 R$ Snickers bar: 2,5 R$ Bottled water: 2 R$ 1kg of rice: 4,3 R$ Minimum wage: 948 R$ Edited September 5, 2018 by Agorafilia 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 1 month plus 1 silver is 10euros, or $11.63USD for you it is apparently 45R$ Okay so with your comparison, let's calculate this out. I'm in the US and I pay about $.75 for a can of cola, you pay your equivalent of $3. It will cost me 15.5 colas. For you it's 15. A snickers bar at a grocery store is about $.88, you have 2.5R$. It 13 candy bars for a month of Wurm. You would get 18. I think you're looking at the numbers without realizing that your prices on everything are different, but they're actually a similar market value, in some cases you make out better. Edited September 5, 2018 by Seriphina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Seriphina said: 1 month plus 1 silver is 10euros, or $11.63USD for you it is apparently 45R$ Okay so with your comparison, let's calculate this out. I'm in the US and I pay about $.75 for a can of cola, you pay your equivalent of $3. It will cost me 15.5 colas. For you it's 15. A snickers bar at a grocery store is about $.88, you have 2.5R$. It 13 candy bars for a month of Wurm. You would get 18. I think you're looking at the numbers without realizing that your prices on everything are different, but they're actually a similar market value, in some cases you make out better. That's not actually a fair comparison, the cost of living in brazil is generally higher. You are using relative costs for each country to justify that I can "buy more" when in fact the premium COSTS me more, that's why I can buy more, not because they're proportional, but because they are both expensive. Not to mention relative cost/salary. Let's say two people living of minimum wage on brazil and germany for example. Subscription/Minimum wage USA: 11,63/1160 = 1% of the salary Germany: 10/1498 = 0,66% of the salary Brazil: 45/948 = 4,7% of the salary in USA you can have 4 accounts ant it will be cheaper than 1 account in Brazil. If I wanted to have 2 accounts I would be giving almost 10% of my salary in the game. I do not suggest it to be 10R$, but at least around 25R$, it would be much better for my pocket. Edited September 6, 2018 by Agorafilia 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Agorafilia said: I live in Brazil and I buy monthly membership, but in my country 10 euros go for 54R$, which is way too expensive to pay for a membership. It's hard to even have ONE account for me and my friends, im even considering paying with in game currency, but that sucks. I was thinking that wurm could do the same as games like Runescape has through the company "Boa Compra" (runescape is currently 12R$ and 11U$. If 11$ would be converted in R$ it would be 50R$), the membership has different values in major countries ou continents, like europe, australia, africa, brazil, where you can pay less for premium because of your location. If the price continue high like that I don't know if I will continue playing. Too expensive! A cheaper membership could even encourage more people to pay membership or have more accounts. Products and prices in Brazil for comparison: 1 liter of gasoline: 4,2 R$ (gallon: 16 R$) Can of coca-cola: 3 R$ Snickers bar: 2,5 R$ Bottled water: 2 R$ 1kg of rice: 4,3 R$ so 18 cans of coke is the subscription fee In the uk cans of coke from tescos will cost you 70p 18 cans is £12.60 My subscription costs me £14.42 yours is cheaper. In fact.. if you run £14.42 through the currency converter.. you get 77.48R$ I wish, my sub was only £10.09 but it isn't, yours is. count thy chickens. Edited September 6, 2018 by Steveleeb 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Agorafilia said: I live in Brazil and I buy monthly membership, but in my country 10 euros go for 54R$, which is way too expensive to pay for a membership. It's hard to even have ONE account for me and my friends, im even considering paying with in game currency, but that sucks. I was thinking that wurm could do the same as games like Runescape has through the company "Boa Compra" (runescape is currently 12R$ and 11U$. If 11$ would be converted in R$ it would be 50R$), the membership has different values in major countries ou continents, like europe, australia, africa, brazil, where you can pay less for premium because of your location. If the price continue high like that I don't know if I will continue playing. Too expensive! A cheaper membership could even encourage more people to pay membership or have more accounts. Products and prices in Brazil for comparison: 1 liter of gasoline: 4,2 R$ (gallon: 16 R$) Can of coca-cola: 3 R$ Snickers bar: 2,5 R$ Bottled water: 2 R$ 1kg of rice: 4,3 R$ Just think all the coin you can make from farming bulk mats and selling them in wurm! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 CCAB and their servers are in the EU, therefore all prices must be in their currency and scaled to their cost of living. Want cheaper Wurm? Convince them to move to Brazil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 Most games that run the cheaper sub for poorer countries either have enough income and they just want to pad subscriber counts for investors, region locked servers, or they don't have markets that change with the amount of players (locked price ranges on items etc etc) . Theres also the problem of people using a vpn or similar to get cheaper subs, because it doesnt really matter if your alt has 500 ping or whatever. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 I hear you Agorafilia, and there are also many other countries where wages are that low or lower. As stated above it is very hard to avoid cheaters that appear to be in for example Brazil in order to get cheaper prems for their games and that is what probably prevents most games from using a differentiated price. I feel for players like you thou. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) Even if things like groceries or gas would be cheaper in countries like Brazil than in the USA , hence the simple living expenses are cheaper, something like a car will always have the same value anywhere you go. You will buy a volkswagen for 5k in Germany where it's made, and you'll buy it for 6k in Brazil because it will include the shipping expenses, government aditional tax.... Imagine Germany selling volkswagens for 500 bucks in 3rd world countries ... Would they make any money? nope..... Would they even cover their expenses? Not really.... It's the same for Wurm, they have devs and servers they have to pay as well, and not all wurm players live in USA / UK / Sweden / Germany / other high minimal wage countries, imagine 80% of the Wurm population buying the game for 3 bucks... Would devs still do anything? Nope.... Would the servers still be running? Maybe, i dont think so tho... not properly anyhow... Just because you make 100 bucks / months doesnt mean that we should all abide to sell you everything for cheaper Edited September 6, 2018 by Gladiator 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) VW is a fun example as they at least used to produce cars in Brazil. Spoiler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_do_Brasil Edited September 6, 2018 by Cecci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Cecci said: VW is a fun example as they at least used to produce cars in Brazil. Hide contents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_do_Brasil Damned if i cared Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 Buy a copy of WU and join us at Sklotopolis (I ain't staff on that server so I can advert neenerneener!). We got a few portuguese speakers running around. No sub, no deed upkeep. And when you do wanna do some painful conversion to euros for something off the donation site, it's something you get to keep and use... not buy again next month. Some people here seem to think that a single player will generate a subscription's worth of costs a month and thus CCAB would lose money from letting players in cheaper (dey noz ecanomiks), because subs have to be manufactured before being sold eh. Wurm could add a few hundred players at $5 each adjusting for currencies like Brazil's and still break a profit (after all, there are a few hundred FREE alts that get logged in here and there for stuff) but who the hell wants us thirdworlders and our third world money eh, definitely not the same players always demanding more ways to bring ppl to the game so they can sell their stuff to them. BTW I absolutely LOVE the sudden concern for CCAB's profit curve. LOVE it. You know what would help a lot? Stopping players from selling money they made ingame while undercutting CCAB. (But the money was generated at some point at CCAB's site!!! Yes, it was. Now someone else needs that many silvers, and instead of going to the site to get their fill of fresh silvers, they buy used silvers off someone else who doesn't even give CCAB 10%). Salud! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 46 minutes ago, Mordraug said: BTW I absolutely LOVE the sudden concern for CCAB's profit curve. LOVE it. You know what would help a lot? Stopping players from selling money they made ingame while undercutting CCAB. (But the money was generated at some point at CCAB's site!!! Yes, it was. Now someone else needs that many silvers, and instead of going to the site to get their fill of fresh silvers, they buy used silvers off someone else who doesn't even give CCAB 10%). 8 I agree, players selling currency and account sharing undermines the profit margin of the game; never did make sense to me. I still, to this day, have not bought silver directly from CCAB and never will so long as player prices are cheaper and legit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Mordraug said: You know what would help a lot? Stopping players from selling money they made ingame while undercutting CCAB. (But the money was generated at some point at CCAB's site!!! Yes, it was. Now someone else needs that many silvers, and instead of going to the site to get their fill of fresh silvers, they buy used silvers off someone else who doesn't even give CCAB 10%). Used silver as in? do you pay 10s for your premium then still have 10s that's just named (used) or something? if you buy something off someone with silver the silvers not used it's just an intermediate for trading because it's easier than bartering goods/services with others. All silver ends up getting eaten up in premium/deed/trader items down the road and it's always constantly diminishing from people paying for these things without buying it from the shop, so if nobody's buying from the shop eventually there won't be enough silver, but judging by the silver graphs the amount of silver in the game has stayed steady over the last year, so there's enough people buying silver from the shop to sustain the silver being lost from the silver sinks, and banning silver buying/selling will just make people that buy and sell silver quit instead of buying from the shop, so all you're doing is reducing the amount of silver sinks/premium players in the game. 1 hour ago, Mordraug said: Wurm could add a few hundred players at $5 each adjusting for currencies like Brazil's and still break a profit (after all, there are a few hundred FREE alts that get logged in here and there for stuff) but who the hell wants us thirdworlders and our third world money eh, definitely not the same players always demanding more ways to bring ppl to the game so they can sell their stuff to them. If you think hundreds of players are going to start playing wurm just because it's slightly cheaper then that explains your knowledge on "ecanomiks" or whatever patronizing language you want to use then i can really see why you aren't in charge of pricing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said: If you think hundreds of players are going to start playing wurm just because it's slightly cheaper then that explains your knowledge on "ecanomiks" or whatever patronizing language you want to use then i can really see why you aren't in charge of pricing. "Used silver as in?" Ok simple economics for you. More is more. You're only taking about the amount of silver in game. That is 100% completely utterly absolutely IRRELEVANT to CCAB's server host and their respective banks. This thread is about dollars, euros, reais, balboas, pounds, shekels, your pick. Economics lesson 2 for you: Player in country with shoddy currency sees Wurm, sees the price, converts from euros to their own currency. "That's 5% of my salary, sod that". Player sees the same game with the price in their own currency, which is say 5 euros, does the math, "That's 1% of my salary.. iiinteresting". You, sir, have earned your patronizing and a cookie. 10 players in those countries paying $15 each, or 50 players paying $5 each? Which is more? Go on, you can do it... count beads or something. Edited September 6, 2018 by Mordraug 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mordraug said: You're only taking about the amount of silver in game. That is 100% completely utterly absolutely IRRELEVANT to CCAB's server host and their respective banks Silvers bought with money and that's the only way it's generated outside some events that have maybe 3 gold in total generated, compared to the tens of thousand of gold that's ever been in the game. Silver is 100% completely utterly absolutely RELEVANT to those things. 10 minutes ago, Mordraug said: Economics lesson 2 for you: Player in country with shoddy currency seems Wurm, sees the price, converts from euros to their own currency. "That's 5% of my salary, sod that". Player sees the same game with the price in their own currency, which is say 5 euros, does the math, "That's 1% of my salary.. iiinteresting". You, sir, have earned your patronizing and a cookie. the games currently 8 euro a month, idk how taking it to 5 euro a month (40% decrease) will take the total percent of your salary from 5% to 1% (80% decrease), but you're the master of economy. For a decrease that size would require the game to be 1.6 euro a month. 25 minutes ago, Mordraug said: 10 players in those countries paying $15 each, or 50 players paying $5 each? Which is more? Go on, you can do it... count beads or something At 1.6 euro a month as per your 5% to 1%, 50 players would bring 80 euro. 10 players paying 15 euro would be 150 euro. I'm not very good at numbers but i can see a winner. I don't think you quite understood my patronizing comment seeing as you're asking me to count beads but gl living in poor people country nonetheless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 12 hours ago, Darmalus said: CCAB and their servers are in the EU, therefore all prices must be in their currency and scaled to their cost of living. Want cheaper Wurm? Convince them to move to Brazil. No really, world of warcrat, runescape, some of the examples that make their subscription cheaper for third world countries. 11 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said: Theres also the problem of people using a vpn or similar to get cheaper subs, because it doesnt really matter if your alt has 500 ping or whatever. They usually make the price so the conversion of your money to the cheaper money would not pay off, as for the ping, I can't play in xanadu becuase I have about this amount of ping, it's super annoying. I do think wurm has enough player to earn from and increase of players due to the lower price. 10 hours ago, Gladiator said: Even if things like groceries or gas would be cheaper in countries like Brazil than in the USA , hence the simple living expenses are cheaper, something like a car will always have the same value anywhere you go. You will buy a volkswagen for 5k in Germany where it's made, and you'll buy it for 6k in Brazil because it will include the shipping expenses, government aditional tax.... Imagine Germany selling volkswagens for 500 bucks in 3rd world countries ... Would they make any money? nope..... Would they even cover their expenses? Not really.... It's the same for Wurm, they have devs and servers they have to pay as well, and not all wurm players live in USA / UK / Sweden / Germany / other high minimal wage countries, imagine 80% of the Wurm population buying the game for 3 bucks... Would devs still do anything? Nope.... Would the servers still be running? Maybe, i dont think so tho... not properly anyhow... Just because you make 100 bucks / months doesnt mean that we should all abide to sell you everything for cheaper You mean basic human needs likes transport, food and clothes? I really don't think entertainment falls under this category, virtual goods usually get here cheaper than they are supposed to because hitting a larger base is more profitable than keeping your price high for few people. Also the cost of making a car and opening a server slot or creating a virtual copy is not even fair to compare. 7 hours ago, Cecci said: VW is a fun example as they at least used to produce cars in Brazil. Hide contents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_do_Brasil Cars are super expensive in brazil, because it is a basic need and there's a whole lobby behind it, I wont even get into that because I would spend at least three paragraphs on it. 1 hour ago, Mordraug said: Wurm could add a few hundred players at $5 each adjusting for currencies like Brazil's and still break a profit (after all, there are a few hundred FREE alts that get logged in here and there for stuff) but who the hell wants us thirdworlders and our third world money eh, definitely not the same players always demanding more ways to bring ppl to the game so they can sell their stuff to them. Exactly it! Wurm online population has been declining drastically in the past years, one of the options to gather more players is to make the subscription accessible for major third world countries like India, south america. I've met quite a few people from this locations who played wurm actively a while a go. I have no doubt that a market study would confirm you could bring a few hundred players from this countries heating ingame economy AND raise CCAB profit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said: the games currently 8 euro a month, idk how taking it to 5 euro a month (40% decrease) will take the total percent of your salary from 5% to 1% (80% decrease), but you're the master of economy. For a decrease that size would require the game to be 1.6 euro a month. Runescape membership is currently US10,99, that's about as expensive as wurm, about 45 BRL month. However runescape does have a price for brazilians, and it goes for 14 BRL when bought in Brazil, that's about 3,4 USD for Jagex, that's a 70% decrease. I think CCAB could do something along those lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Agorafilia said: However runescape does have a price for brazilians, and it goes for 14 BRL when bought in Brazil, that's about 3,4 USD for Jagex, that's a 70% decrease Runescape has locked prices on items, something i brought up before, that reduces the impact of the increased playerbase on a cheaper plan. runescape's also had a problem with massive bot farms for years, which isn't helped by the cheaper membership in other countries. Wurms economy is entirely go set whatever prices you want and let the market decide, which doesn't work well unless everyone has the same entrance fee. If someone was playing from a country with the normal price membership, he'd have to make more money than someone from the cheaper premium country to get the same amount of gametime. Cheaper options only work if there's game enforced limits or there isn't RMT/RMT is extremely limited. 19 minutes ago, Agorafilia said: I can't play in xanadu becuase I have about this amount of ping Xanadu is hosted in the same place all the other servers are, you have the exact same ping to every single wurm server. Xanadu has server-side lag which is completely separate from your connection. VPN would barely effect the connection as there's lower income countries quite close to germany that yuo could get a vpn in. Edited September 6, 2018 by Oblivionnreaver 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites