ESC to close windows

[Jonydowy 616]

I have been playing wurm on a laptop for the last month,with no mouse..the one thing that would make it doable would be if we could press ESC to close windows like inventory containers etc.

 

Would it be possible for us to get such a feature.

[whereami 564]

Already entirely possible on your end, no interaction required from devs. All it requires is a little reworking of existing keybinds.
You should also understand that the "CLOSE" keybind only closes containers for which your mouse is currently hovering over in the 3D world, so it really isn't incredibly useful to do this in Wurm.

[Jonydowy 616]

i'm not talking of a key bind..

just pressing esc and close windows, one at the time without having to hover the mouse over them..otherwise whats the point..i could just move the mouse on the x and close is manualy

[FranktheTank 1,901]

Or better yet, ESC to close all windows.

[Zuelatak 235]

Was just about to post this idea.

 

Would love for at the bare minimum a hotkey that I can set to whatever I want that will close the most recent menu I have open without needing to mouse over it I think we can still have this close hotkey and I also like the idea of a hotkey that closes ALL windows as @FranktheTanksuggested. I think by default for new players Esc should close the most recent menu, and one of ctrl/alt/shift + Esc should close all windows. Could also set the mouseover close to another ctrl/alt/shift + Esc combo. but I don't picture most using it.

[Ekcin 2,417]

Nothing against the idea proper, BUT. If at all, then configurable, with opt out as default. I recall how often I hit escape for a fast stop, or getting the menu, and hit it twice or more if the box is unresponsive for some reason. Often I have my windows prearranged, eg open forge, bsb, some large chests to drop items into etc. Especially under lag, all that could be easily destroyed and needed to be rearranged.

 

So before even considering, the exact how to do, and possible race conditions and collisions had to be thoroughly evaluated.

[Zuelatak 235]

Oops I hadn't considered that sometimes we stop actions with menus open. Hmm what would be a good key for stopping actions if not Esc? Or perhaps it would just target actions over menus and that would be enough? I don't think there would be many race conditions if any cause menus closing would be pretty much client side only I believe. Even under the worst conditions of lag you would just reopen the menus in the reverse order of how you'd like them to close. I don't see why you'd need to rearrange them as the game should remember their positioning. At least mine does.

[DaletheGood 1,073]

yeah, i use ESC to stop actions all the time, so leave that alone. and also, like Ekcin I usually have my windows set up in a specific manner, and would hate to have windows start closing just because I hit ESC an extra time. that'd be annoying. I'm gonna have to throw this suggestion back into the 'needs more work' pile. -1

[Zuelatak 235]

16 minutes ago, DaletheGood said:

yeah, i use ESC to stop actions all the time, so leave that alone. and also, like Ekcin I usually have my windows set up in a specific manner, and would hate to have windows start closing just because I hit ESC an extra time. that'd be annoying. I'm gonna have to throw this suggestion back into the 'needs more work' pile. -1

Sounds like you just wouldn't use the hotkey then?

 

The mechanic doesn't HAVE to use Esc. Is that the only reason you're downvoting it?

 

The idea is just having a hotkey that can close windows. My addition to that would be the most recent window. Are you at least down for that? Do you have any idea what its default key could be if not Esc? Or as I mentioned previously maybe we change the default key for stopping actions instead.

 

We're here to discuss the work needed. So if you don't like the idea, why? If you do, why? And if you think there's a better way to do it then please say how.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Zuelatak

[DaletheGood 1,073]

23 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

The mechanic doesn't HAVE to use Esc. Is that the only reason you're downvoting it?

Yes

23 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

Or as I mentioned previously maybe we change the default key for stopping actions instead.

No

23 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

The idea is just having a hotkey that can close windows.

That's fine, have it programmable like all the other hotkeys, just don't make it a default of any sort. Leave it blank like the majority of hotkeys are, and let the user assign their preferred key to it

[TheTrickster 2,285]

Do not take ESC away from stopping actions.  That is the function of an escape key.  It is physically well placed for this, and is the default for good reason, as well as having been in use for a considerable amount of time.  

 

Make the function programmable, make it consistent, and if you must have it defaulted to something, make it something like delete or backspace. (But then, how do handle windows that open with an activated text entry box?)

 

 

[Zuelatak 235]

12 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

Yes

Jesus that's unhelpful, but I appreciate your honesty I suppose.

 

12 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

No

Do me a favor and just entertain the idea? You don't have to like it, but taking a step out of your comfort zone and just trying something different might result in good conversation. Rather than just shooting ideas down if they don't align with how you want to play the game. 

 

12 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

just don't make it a default of any sort.

It ABSOLUTELY needs a default key as do most if not all of the unassigned keys. What is the advantage of keeping them blank? Even if it's something as stupid as Ctrl+T for dig then at least New Players will see that keybind when they attempt to dig and don't have to consider creating their own. 

 

5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Do not take ESC away from stopping actions.  That is the function of an escape key.

Closing windows is also the function of an escape key. I do think stopping actions should take priority over closing windows, but most games have windows open/close on Esc and I imagine that most new players expect this to be the case. They open windows and try to hit Esc only to find it does nothing, sigh, and then slowly click the X on all their windows. I just want us to entertain the idea that the stopping action key could be changed to something else as it totally could. Maybe it shouldn't, but lets think of some key schemes and see if we can create something better.

 

For instance, spacebar could be a really good stop action key. It's a commonly used key, but since we don't have a jump feature it's just a giant useless key on our keyboard.

 

5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

(But then, how do handle windows that open with an activated text entry box?)

Honestly those windows should probably not steal the focus away from whatever text box you were currently using and require players to actually click on those text boxes if they want to focus on them. I've definitely accidently opened the crafting recipe menu quite a lot and get frustrated when my typing goes to the wrong place.

 

Just to be clear in case it isn't obvious. Changing the default scheme of the game has 0 effect on the current playerbase. It is purely for new accounts.  So, there's no reason for us to be like "I wouldn't like that key" or "I don't want my controls effected" or "I already changed my keys, so I don't care". We are only discussing how New Players should experience the game, and I think having an ability to close menus in a game all about menus would be very beneficial for New Players. It's something I've heard come up at least a few times with viewers and friends who have tried the game. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Zuelatak

[Lisimba 779]

2 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

It ABSOLUTELY needs a default key as do most if not all of the unassigned keys. What is the advantage of keeping them blank?

Having them blank means they exist but don't take up valuable keys. There's a bind for every single priest spell for example, and for a whole bunch of pretty specific actions. Leaving them blank works very well in combination with the dynamic binding system (hold down a key a few seconds while hovering over a menu item). I have four easily accessible keys that I rebind many times a day based on whatever task I'm working on at the time.

 

That said, I would like a keybind that closes all container windows, and one that closes the topmost container window. (But don't close the inventory, there's already a bind for that and usually I want to leave it open anyway.) I don't really care what the default key is, but for example the default key combo to close subwindows in many programs (such as browsers) is ctrl-w.

[Zuelatak 235]

57 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

they exist but don't take up valuable keys

The key is not valuable if nothing is set to it.

58 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

Leaving them blank works very well in combination with the dynamic binding system (hold down a key a few seconds while hovering over a menu item).

A great feature that most New Players don't often know about. Even if they keys are set people could still do this though.

59 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

I have four easily accessible keys that I rebind many times a day based on whatever task I'm working on at the time.

Yeah I'm too lazy to make keybinds for everything and I do this too lmao. Even if the keys are set people could still do this though.

1 hour ago, Lisimba said:

(But don't close the inventory, there's already a bind for that and usually I want to leave it open anyway.)

Ooo I do agree with this actually. 

1 hour ago, Lisimba said:

I don't really care what the default key is, but for example the default key combo to close subwindows in many programs (such as browsers) is ctrl-w.

If Esc is not used I think that's a great idea! Could even do I think it's Ctrl+Shift+W to close all windows for browsers.

[Lisimba 779]

2 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

The key is not valuable if nothing is set to it.

A hypothetical "close windows" key is valuable enough that it should have a default. But you said "as do most if not all of the unassigned keys", and I don't agree with that. It's fine to have a lot of unassigned binds. It means there can be binds for niche things, which people can use if they actually need them, without having to worry about the finger gymnastics needed to fit them all in. Like I mentioned, all spells have a bind. I just counted, there are 103 of them just for that. Yet most toons will never cast a spell. There are almost 400 binds in total, at a rough estimate. I figure all the reasonably common things should have default binds, and beyond that, people can set the more niche ones themselves.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Lisimba

[Zuelatak 235]

2 hours ago, Lisimba said:

all spells have a bind. I just counted, there are 103 of them just for that

Okay fair I don't think spells need a keybind, but in the future I think a spellbook keybind that encompasses them all might be good. The game has keybind profiles, so you can have multiple actions set to the same set of keys. I underestimated how many keybinds were in the game. There are definitely a lot that need bindings though, and I think the game should make use of profiles and alternative keys to fit as many as they can. However, I still don't think there would be anything wrong with every key having a default bind. People could still change it however they'd like, but at least there's a suggested scheme presented to them that potentially a large amount of the playerbase stands behind. 

[DaletheGood 1,073]

12 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

Closing windows is also the function of an escape key.

In over 30 yrs of working with multiple software in a variety of companies, I can tell you for a fact that ESC does not close a window.

9 hours ago, Lisimba said:

the default key combo to close subwindows in many programs (such as browsers) is ctrl-w

Yep.

4 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

I still don't think there would be anything wrong with every key having a default bind

That's just idiotic. You want to force everyone to play to your style. The sheer number of actions in the game invalidates that argument. I don't believe there's enough keys on the keyboard to cover every action in the game, not unless you start using 3 or 4 in combo. Certainly not using the standard keys plus the 3 main modifier keys (shift, ctrl, alt) in single combinations like A, Shift-A, Ctrl-A, Alt-A.

 

How about you modify your suggestion, you want a keybind to close the top-most container window, and also a keybind to close all container windows. I'll support that. In fact I'll point you to a perfect spot to suggest that, it's a post called "Missing Keybinds" and it's pinned to the top of the Suggestions forum. But stop making players have to play your style by having default buttons for everything already set up. I would think that being able to customize your own keybinds without having to work around Zueletak's weird system would be much preferable.

[Archaed 2,280]

Playing wurm in the future 

 

 

[TheTrickster 2,285]

16 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

that's unhelpful,

??   You said "is that the only reason" and the response was "yes".  It was absolutely helpful in answering your very simple, yes-or-no question.  At this point it feels like you are arguing just to argue.

 

[Zuelatak 235]

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

??   You said "is that the only reason" and the response was "yes".  It was absolutely helpful in answering your very simple, yes-or-no question.  At this point it feels like you are arguing just to argue.

The thing that was unhelpful was the reason I asked the question. Not the yes/no response. It was unhelpful to -1 the idea because of the proposed hotkey choice for the idea. Essentially saying it was a bad idea when the thing they were upset about wasn't the core idea. They didn't provide an alternative hotkey that might make it acceptable to them, and shot down the idea before anyway could potentially solve their issue. It's just something I can't imagine anyone would appreciate on their thread as it is unhelpful and possibly rude to the conversation.

2 hours ago, Archaed said:

Playing wurm in the future 

Holy ###### we'll actually smile when playing Wurm?  

 

Honestly though that looks like a good thing to me. The current game looks like this

 

[TheTrickster 2,285]

9 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

In over 30 yrs of working with multiple software in a variety of companies, I can tell you for a fact that ESC does not close a window.

That.

 

 

[TheTrickster 2,285]

3 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

The thing that was unhelpful was the reason I asked the question

If you are not going to be happy with a yes or no then don't ask a simple yes/no question.

 

3 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

It was unhelpful to -1 the idea because of the proposed hotkey choice for the idea

The OP followed and specifically  said they want "just pressing ESC".

 

You seem to be repeatedly deciding that the OP isn't the OP and it has some other meaning and we are all meant to address that unstated "core" meaning rather than the stated suggestion.

 

<going off muttering, had enough of meta-argument and obtuse reasoning - hello ignore list>

[Zuelatak 235]

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

If you are not going to be happy with a yes or no then don't ask a simple yes/no question.

Again I was fine the yes/no. It was why I had to ask the question that made me irritated.

 

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

The OP followed and specifically  said they want "just pressing ESC".

Then you can say  "I don't wanna press Esc. How about ____" and relating to your previous quote. It's the absence of "How about ___" that I am irritated about. 

 

1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

You seem to be repeatedly deciding that the OP isn't the OP and it has some other meaning and we are all meant to address that unstated "core" meaning rather than the stated suggestion.

Maybe? I don't think I'm crazy for seeing a lot of these posts as here's my

Core idea + suggested way it could work + suggested way it could work

In this case I see the thread as "I want a hotkey to close windows" + "I think it should be Esc"

So I like the core idea, but I'd rather have the key be Ctrl+W, so I'd say that in the post. If I had to make a NEW thread just to call it "Ctrl+W to close windows" and then propose the exact same idea, but with the hotkey being Ctrl+W then there would be so many posts for so many ideas for no reason. It would be a mess. 

 

(Using one of your posts as an example, so hopefully you better get my perspective)

For example, if I loved your treasure but didn't like the 3rd section involving mapmaking I wouldn't make a new post with the exact same ###### without the mapmaking. I would comment on your post and say "Hey Trickster this is a ###### awesome idea! However, I don't think the 3rd element is feasible because _____,how about _____." I would provide you with a why I feel it's bad, and also propose you an alternative solution if I think there is one. This isn't me hijacking a thread (in my eyes). This is just me recognizing that your core idea is being able to "bury stuff", so I would reply the why and alternative rather than make a whole new post about burying items. Does that make sense?

[Gwiz 151]

ESC is already being used to stop actions and if no actions are ongoing it opens/closes the main menu.

 

I simply walk away from the containers I have open when I want to close a bunch of windows.

 

The one that took me a little bit of time to get used to was that the up/down arrows don't move the highlight up or down in the topmost window like pretty much every other application in the world does. I get that this isn't something that can be changed because the arrows are used for movement, but this has caused me to fall of a cliff once and to fall off the second story of my house a couple of times when i was building it.

[Zuelatak 235]

8 hours ago, Gwiz said:

The one that took me a little bit of time to get used to was that the up/down arrows don't move the highlight up or down in the topmost window like pretty much every other application in the world does. I get that this isn't something that can be changed because the arrows are used for movement, but this has caused me to fall of a cliff once and to fall off the second story of my house a couple of times when i was building it.

While this is a completely different idea I do think the arrow keys should do that, and you should make a post for it :3 

Anyone who has arrows keys also has WASD and if they really want to they can rebind the arrow keys to movement, but the default function should be as you mentioned. 

 

8 hours ago, Gwiz said:

I simply walk away from the containers I have open when I want to close a bunch of windows.

That is certainly an option, but I wouldn't consider that a good one. That's more a solution you adapt with, and I don't think the average New Player will think of that immediately. Also, that their first instinct will be to try to hit Esc. Some windows also don't close via walking away as they aren't something you can walk away from. For example, menu windows, or windows you open from within your inventory.