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ChampagneDragon

What has made you hate Wurm?

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36 minutes ago, kochinac said:

And why do you think Wurms problem is in engine? What do you suppose Wurm using Unreal Engine will bring and what would be benefit from it?

To me it's waste of time and resources

Java games are all the rage right now.

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23 minutes ago, kochinac said:

And why do you think Wurms problem is in engine? What do you suppose Wurm using Unreal Engine will bring and what would be benefit from it?

To me it's waste of time and resources

 

I can see why you would feel that way, you already play the game.. and you've probably already injected a lot of money. 

 

Everyone who complains about this dying community can't figure out why new people don't want to play Wurm and stick with it? 

 

I can't bring in anyone under 35 to stay and deal with the outdated graphics, clunky, confusing and list-driven UI, goofy-ass emotes, limited sound effects and consistently wogical rendering. It's all old, volunteer-sourced potato code based to run in a coding language that does NOT excel in graphic-oriented projects. 

 

Polys have sharp, abrupt, and ugly edges.

Long lists of items missing models entirely.

Character customization is lacking.

Style options are lacking (but growing). 

 

Are you suggesting this is a graphically pleasing game and competitive in today's market? No?

Then why would people come play Wurm when there are so many other options with a much cleaner and polished feel to them? 

 

I think Wurm is a community of 2000 or so players with no trajectory other than getting smaller as people lose interest and try to cash-out their time/efforts. 

The player-count has already started it's necrosis and toxic effect. 

 

The only new players this game is likely to see are people who will ultimately leave within a month or two... or the wallet warriors who inject themselves and get lost in their own greedy obsessions. 

 

The only reason I still pay attention to this game is that there is nothing else like it. 

Can't wait for there to be a replacement/alternative 3d terraforming estate-building medieval game, though! 

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2 minutes ago, Trake said:

 

I can see why you would feel that way, you already play the game.. and you've probably already injected a lot of money. 

 

Everyone who complains about this dying community can't figure out why new people don't want to play Wurm and stick with it? 

 

I can't bring in anyone under 35 to stay and deal with the outdated graphics, clunky, confusing and list-driven UI, goofy-ass emotes, limited sound effects and consistently wogical rendering. It's all old, volunteer-sourced potato code based to run in a coding language that does NOT excel in graphic-oriented projects. 

 

Polys have sharp, abrupt, and ugly edges.

Long lists of items missing models entirely.

Character customization is lacking.

Style options are lacking (but growing). 

 

Are you suggesting this is a graphically pleasing game and competitive in today's market? No?

Then why would people come play Wurm when there are so many other options with a much cleaner and polished feel to them? 

 

I think Wurm is a community of 2000 or so players with no trajectory other than getting smaller as people lose interest and try to cash-out their time/efforts. 

The player-count has already started it's necrosis and toxic effect. 

 

The only new players this game is likely to see are people who will ultimately leave within a month or two... or the wallet warriors who inject themselves and get lost in their own greedy obsessions. 

 

The only reason I still pay attention to this game is that there is nothing else like it. 

Can't wait for there to be a replacement/alternative 3d terraforming estate-building medieval game, though! 

FYI I have under 35 years and i'm playing for less than 4 year if my memory recall me corectly. Haven't injected anything in this game beside my time. And my objecting this purely on techical aspects. I don't have much expirience in game development but i do in programming in general, not sure what's your background but it annoys me when someone assume, Java is crap for games because of efficincy(i don't thing it's worse than C++ in such large scale), game engines are by default beter, etc. Everything has pros and cons. 

Having your own engine means having more freedoom to do things you want, more independency which for niche game as Wurm is crucial imo. Graphics don't have to do anything with Java, there are actually some really great games in that aspects written in Java. Also Java is also good for cross platform solutions. Don't get why are graphics so ofputting people from Wurm, on full settings they look great to me.I would rather invest in more interactive comabt system rather to graphics for example if we are undertaking huge changes such that. Beside great UI change is in the progress and we yet have to see what will bring, that is if some of you negative pesimists stay around.

If i would develop my own serious game i would definetly go with my engine and would shoot myself in head if i had to work in Unity or some engine... If devoloping some shallow quick fun, that relies mostly on storytelling, yeah engines are good choice.

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Some points:

- Lag are greater years for years. 9 years ago, it was no problem pvp - this time i died 100% by lag ?

- Wurm are the game with most bugs, but ok - i love it :wub:

- Stuff/Gm's are not neutral - more i say not, its sadly ?

- Have fun ?

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On 10/12/2018 at 1:34 PM, kochinac said:

FYI I have under 35 years and i'm playing for less than 4 year if my memory recall me corectly. Haven't injected anything in this game beside my time. And my objecting this purely on techical aspects. I don't have much expirience in game development but i do in programming in general, not sure what's your background but it annoys me when someone assume, Java is crap for games because of efficincy(i don't thing it's worse than C++ in such large scale), game engines are by default beter, etc. Everything has pros and cons. 

Having your own engine means having more freedoom to do things you want, more independency which for niche game as Wurm is crucial imo. Graphics don't have to do anything with Java, there are actually some really great games in that aspects written in Java. Also Java is also good for cross platform solutions. Don't get why are graphics so ofputting people from Wurm, on full settings they look great to me.I would rather invest in more interactive comabt system rather to graphics for example if we are undertaking huge changes such that. Beside great UI change is in the progress and we yet have to see what will bring, that is if some of you negative pesimists stay around.

If i would develop my own serious game i would definetly go with my engine and would shoot myself in head if i had to work in Unity or some engine... If devoloping some shallow quick fun, that relies mostly on storytelling, yeah engines are good choice.

30

 

I didn't suggest that engine source and development with it is 'default better'.

Yes, Java is an amazing coding language.

It's also extremely line-intensive. It's a corporate manager's wet dream; look at all our lines of code! So productive! 

I didn't recommend Unity. That's more of a cross-platform framework anyways. 

Unreal is extremely flexible and saves you plenty of time from coding the 'reinvention of the wheel'.

Please explain to me how Unreal engine is limiting in any way.

Please explain to me why it's better to build your own engine with a tiny budget and mostly volunteer coders? 

Don't shoot yourself. None of us want that. 

Game making is advancing at a breakneck pace, player-expectations are changing quickly and Wurm is simply a relic of an old MMO ideology. 

Optimism won't turn Wurm into a hustling and bustling game again. 

This game, like anything else, has an 'adoption curve'.

We've passed the peak.

No where to go but down.

It's not truth, just statistics. 

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For WO:

- Unique drama. I tried to go back to WO after a little over a year of WU. Within a week I had heard of a unique stolen by a group of elitist players right in front of someone trying to pen it. Another one was sold to a team of people with real life money. The excluding attitude of part of the elite squad is such a turnoff. As a newer player you will feel excluded and all but welcome. And if you dare to complain expect their rage. Before leaving one of my better WO friends was getting ignored and mistreated by someone they liked for some unique drama they had no control over. Let's just say the WU server I am part of is nothing like this. 

 

Time sink. Need I say more? I sold my good WO accounts cause I simply couldn't stand the time spent getting almost nowhere. Good if you are unemployed perhaps, but I would get nowhere with the time I had available. 

 

Cost. If the game was faster and with a better community feel then I would probably not argue this one as much. I feel like I am already paying simply by the amount of effort that is required to accomplish much of anything. The community has frustrated me. I don't want to pay to be frustrated (no offense, I hope the people I actually am happy to have met know who they are - it's just the toxic drama...) 

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27 minutes ago, Joneya said:

For WO:

- Unique drama. I tried to go back to WO after a little over a year of WU. Within a week I had heard of a unique stolen by a group of elitist players right in front of someone trying to pen it. Another one was sold to a team of people with real life money. The excluding attitude of part of the elite squad is such a turnoff. As a newer player you will feel excluded and all but welcome. And if you dare to complain expect their rage. Before leaving one of my better WO friends was getting ignored and mistreated by someone they liked for some unique drama they had no control over. Let's just say the WU server I am part of is nothing like this. 

 

Time sink. Need I say more? I sold my good WO accounts cause I simply couldn't stand the time spent getting almost nowhere. Good if you are unemployed perhaps, but I would get nowhere with the time I had available. 

 

Cost. If the game was faster and with a better community feel then I would probably not argue this one as much. I feel like I am already paying simply by the amount of effort that is required to accomplish much of anything. The community has frustrated me. I don't want to pay to be frustrated (no offense, I hope the people I actually am happy to have met know who they are - it's just the toxic drama...) 

 

/thread

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@JoneyaWell said, couldn't have put it better myself. Well I could have tried but i'd have my head bitten off and posts removed ?

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13 hours ago, LordLouis said:

@JoneyaWell said, couldn't have put it better myself. Well I could have tried but i'd have my head bitten off and posts removed ?

 

You're still roughing it out on WO poor thing.

 

I suppose the in game currency and items being transferred to real life cash might appeal to many, but it also creates an atmosphere that's all but chill. 

 

I happened to befriend one of the cooler "kill crews" but there was still drama. You don't get to invite friends for the kill, we needed some rude persons skills and I felt bad about the newer players who had read about dragons on the wurmpedia and were hoping to get to see one every damn time they could see in the event log that one had spawned.

 

But for a lot of players the uniques are very much a little fairytale being told in letters in the event window, and you start to wonder if these things even exist.

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Going to get a load of hate for saying this, but here it is.

On 8/21/2018 at 2:33 AM, Gladiator said:

I hate how PVE is so boring , easy and pointless, yet the majority of players choose it over PVP because they can't  possibly lose their 1 silver worth chainset

I hate how pvp players look down on pve players and make rude comments then don't understand why people don't want to try out pvp. I was once interested in checking out pvp on wurm, but that was a quick open and close decision when all I saw was toxicity. Fight threads devolve into bashing devs, repeatedly saying the game is dead, trash talking other kingdoms and sometimes even turn into personal attacks. Pvp players put the blame on everyone but themselves for why it's dying.

Edited by MrJonnyboy
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Toxicity in Wurm PvP has gotten worse over the years, because the primary non-toxic people have long quit and the consequences for acting like a prick in a kingdom are almost none, whereas in the past on Wild you could be killed and ostracized by your own kingdom for repeatedly being a prick. On epic it depended where you were, but it was never that bad we all kinda sorta got along.

 

Also local smack talk used to not be a thing, at all and typing in local was considered sacrilege.

 

Black Light on Wild even made it an official rule, and it carried on forever. "DON'T TALK IN LOCAL" 

 

Quote

The barrel's drying up and you're left with the bottom of the barrel now, which is a large reason I'm not so interested in Chaos right now like I was when I was starting to stop playing Epic - Gary

Bingo

Edited by FranktheTank
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Yeah I can't agree more.  The don't talk in local carried into early Epic, but there were so so many times that we've had silly conversations between enemy kingdoms in local and we'd say gf and stuff after it was over and if there was smack talk it was in jest and not hatred/toxic.  Several kingdoms would even threaten to or remove people in their own kingdom for griefing new players.  I even spent so many days in pms with people in enemy kingdoms, rip dingov.  I know people from all kingdoms would get together and play other games too. 

 

The barrel's drying up and you're left with the bottom of the barrel now, which is a large reason I'm not so interested in Chaos right now like I was when I was starting to stop playing Epic

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2 hours ago, MrJonnyboy said:

Going to get a load of hate for saying this, but here it is.

I hate how pvp players look down on pve players and make rude comments then don't understand why people don't want to try out pvp. I was once interested in checking out pvp on wurm, but that was a quick open and close decision when all I saw was toxicity. Fight threads devolve into bashing devs, repeatedly saying the game is dead, trash talking other kingdoms and sometimes even turn into personal attacks. Pvp players put the blame on everyone but themselves for why it's dying.

5

 

Same thing happened here. Applied. Accepted. Joined Discord. Became disgusted. Dumped all my silver into Coffers on Xanadu and Quit WO again. 

I don't see how PvP will ever be getting better at this point. 

WU PvP is also broken due to all the undetectable mods. 

Edited by Trake
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I'll say something from a newcomer perspective as I only have about 1000 hours in WU. BTW most of what's said in this thread still applies to WU although I'm not sure it was the opener's intention.

 

What I hate in Wurm the most are artificial restrictions that are apparently implemented to stop "grievers" and "cheating" or "stimulate economy" or "balance the game" but IMHO these work the opposite and should instead strive for historical accuracy (obviously not where it comes to magic, religion, gods, etc.). And these aren't big things but strong in number.

 

For example why can't I simply use pegs (or even cordage as history shows it was used) instead of nails when making projects that clearly don't need them - a cart, a rope tool, an archery target? Many more. I shall buy nails from smiths, right? Wrong. Nobody does that. They just become smiths for an hour and if somebody didn't want to be a smith this takes away from the experience and feels like a chore instead of fun. Why can't I just make ropes or strings in hands and need specialized equipment is whole another story but still, recipes that are suited for a goal and don't reflect how it really was in medieval times or what a common sense dictates. Why can't I cut leather with any knife or a hatchet or sword even and need a leather knife? Why can't I cut food with a butchering knife? Or just rip it apart with bare hands? Why can't I dig with a stick? And when I make a crude shovel why can't I bury corpses with it? People used to do both of these things without tools even. Can't make planks with a saw. Historically planks used to be made with hatchets. I understand special items should make work faster and with less failure but no option to accomplish these tasks at all unless I somehow poses special item just adds to the chores and bulk on my back. And, again, I understand I'm supposed to buy these tools from other players but that's not what people do when they start. They slave in the mines to get ore, then waste more time to forge that ore in a tool. Again, a chore.

 

Why is archery so hard? I need a specialized tool - a practice target - to train it? But only up to 40 skill? Then I need to go and kill mobs? Also, I can't kill them from a building's balcony or roof for skill gain (or an archery tower, d'oh, or from a tree as archers used to) because then mobs can't attack back and that apparently wouldn't teach me anything or would be unfair. Also, drawing the bow and aiming takes forever, that's not instinctive shooting - that's competitions, wouldn't happen during war or hunt. Also there's no chance to focus on my target because that's only for melee. Speaking of melee, it can be trained to 99 skill without killing a single mob just by getting to 40 on a dummy and then idle fighting with a cow for few days. And when it comes to killing something I need to shoot it 10+ times. Even when my shot goes through a torso. It doesn't matter in RL somebody who shoot 50 arrows from a bow to a target is perfectly capable of killing an animal with 1 shot from 10-15 meters with ease and 20-30 meters with bit of luck. Using more than 1 arrow is so rare you can assume it doesn't happen. Shouldn't be much different when it comes to shooting a human but apparently that wouldn't be fair to the PvP melee players. And a minimal range? Please... English longbow is known throughout the history as an armor piercing machine gun sniper rifle. Only a hardened steel armor could withstand its power. Arrows went through shields, through iron plates, obviously through chain mail. But it wouldn't be fair to the PvP melee players, so no.

 

Why are special moves so limited? Supposedly it used to be that 2 players with a basic stun could kill any 1 player with ease. Well, news flash, 2:1 usually ends up the same in RL. But wouldn't be fair to the PvP melee veterans who want to solo a group.

 

Why weaponless fighting doesn't have special moves? Grabs? Disarms? Throws? Simply pushing somebody down to the ground? And why I don't kick when wearing a cloth pants?

 

Why swimming doesn't rise stats? My girlfriend happens to train her body only by swimming, never went to a gym, no other kinds of regular training. Beautifully shaped and strong body, great stamina, when need be runs like a lightning (doesn't run on regular basis, I do... she's faster).

 

How exactly does stealth work? From my perspective, it doesn't. Okay, it hides me from local. But if I manage to sneak upon somebody from behind and surprise attack them... they parry with ease.

 

Why everyone can afford a sword? And an armor made of iron? And a horse? Each of those used to be worth more than a house. Some were worth more than a big village. If you make iron that affordable, everything suffers, not only economy but all in-game strategies because everyone can afford good weapon and armor.

 

Apparently eggs, vegetables and lean meat have no nutrition and don't contain carbs, fats or protein.
 
What's wrong with killing a man with a pot of boiling hot fat? It might be unethical but should work perfectly fine regardless of what armor said man is wearing.
 
What's an inventory. Seriously. Because it seems to represent my bare hands but I can hold up to a 100 items including containers, big and small, long and short.
 
When I start the game I'm a medieval man who can't ride a horse. Because it wasn't a popular activity in times of kingdoms, knights, swords and, well, horses. Not only can't ride it, can't pack tons of stuff on it and lead it. Because people never done that. Can't put my bow on it. Can't bind a shovel to the saddle's side. Can't lead it by the bridle empty handed.
 
Well, I could go on but this post already turned out ridiculously long. Sorry for that. I'll shut up now.
Edited by cprn

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1 hour ago, cprn said:

What I hate in Wurm the most are artificial restrictions that are apparently implemented to stop "grievers" and "cheating" or "stimulate economy"...

 

This rings true for me. In things like fatigue, for instance, the developers were so afraid of players abusing the game that they implemented a mechanic that results in the game abusing players.

 

Another example is mining. If it were my game, I'd let players mine a tile through an entire stamina bar at full exp with a single click.

 

For that matter, as a general rule I'd use the stamina bar, not repetitive clicks, as a player-interaction threshold. It actually fits the world, and doesn't feel arbitrary (or carpal-tunnel inducing! :P ).

Edited by Roccandil

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On 8/30/2018 at 12:10 PM, Mordraug said:

 

Let's set aside our differences and bear with me for a moment...... 

How come the PvP kingdoms don't have some form of "training academy" on the PvE servers.... new player portals straight into Chaos, drag him to the PvE deed to grind some skills undisturbed.  New player portals into PvE with the specific intent to grind up before getting ganked on Chaos, once again... training academy.  Oldish PvE player is curious but unconvinced, there's a deed to interact with you guys and get briefed on basic tactics.

 

You teach PvE players about the workings of PvP, you may gain more people.  You keep dismissing anything PvE players have to say about PvP AND about PvE, you just wind up reminding them how Wurm's PvP is the whim of a couple dozen players funded by the money of a thousand.

We need to RolandT to come back and finish his pvp training deed on Exodus, only then will pvp finally be saved.

 

If you really wanted to learn about pvp.. you wouldn't be asking for a pvp training deed on the other side of the freedom cluster. The only way to properly learn something is by actually doing it you have the opportunity of having TC, WU, and Panda something that hasn't been around for a while, more then just 1 kingdom with experienced players willing to do ######. You could join either of those three right now and learn and experience pvp. Which is the only way you ever will I can assure you sparing on exo, indy, deli, or xanadu won't teach you ######. If anyone of you really had interest you would of came over already but you don't so there's no point in arguing or trying to convince pve players to pvp and only hope new people join the game and play on chaos.  

 

Edit: Also I heard someone say chaos pvp was only about skills and gear, and bashing I can assure you it's not. I used to think the same even while playing on chaos. You have people like Deathangel who had a champion in scale and another sotg player in drake attacking him while he had tower guards on him. The guy was wearing cloth and survived the entire thing which lasted an hour and almost even killed the champ. Pvp is more then just a good toon and drake and glimmer weapons and I'm just learning that i'm actually interested in pvp that's why i'm living over here and actually going out and trying to see how things work, and not on freedom building/playing at another pvp training camp. Which in the past have been many and all they do is give u ###### weapons and you spar people and grind your smithing skills or go hunting on your own. And most of them don't even get finished because the idea of a "pvp training camp" on a pve server is just ###### dumb.

Edited by Loink

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Its simple the population crashed.  ROLF cashed out with Wurm Unlimited.  Gave the reins to a team said have fun and watches from the sidelines as even with desperate changes the game continues to nosedive into the ground.  Long time player so don't bother baffling me with ###### it won't work. I've talked to many people including current and x devs mods etc.  If they answer I can delete my accounts permanently I will.  And everything of value no matter what is getting thrown in a trash can.  Its a final move to EXPEL this game from my system and curse the items that had a hold on me.  My friends were smarter and did it all LONG AGO.

 

TIme to find new games with new people and have new fun.  Wurm is old and used and put away wet and smelly.

 

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Hate is a strong word...

I don't play as much as I used to due to time constraints but over the past 13 years I haven't found anything hate-worthy about the game itself.

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On 10/12/2018 at 2:39 PM, Trake said:

Wurm might grow it's community if the devs did a complete re-write of the game in a community-supported game engine.

Wurm 2.0 in Unreal Engine or something? :)

 

The engine is fine. Honestly, when I see this and someone throwing a name out there, I feel bad for them. They have no idea.

 

An engine like Unreal or Unity serves for fast development. We already have most of those features, so why spend time on rewriting it? We'd rather spend time on using them, which we have been. Have you not seen? I recommend you check the test server.

 

If there's anything that I would rewrite, it would be the server, because anyone who knows anything about Wurm's tech would understand that the client is dumb and the server does nearly all the work. The client makes things pretty, but what does that matter if your lag is so bad you can't get anything done? Or if wogic dictates that you lose your boat on a server crossing? So please stop suggesting that we rewrite the client.

 

I'm working on a rewrite for server crossing. Budda is working on a number of features as well. We're working hard to modernize what we can without losing the feel of the game. We don't need to rewrite the client to do this. Instead, use the suggestion forum to make individual suggestions.

 

Be a part of the solution, because otherwise... well, you know how the story goes. :)

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On 10/17/2018 at 11:42 AM, Joneya said:

For WO:

- Unique drama. I tried to go back to WO after a little over a year of WU. Within a week I had heard of a unique stolen by a group of elitist players right in front of someone trying to pen it. Another one was sold to a team of people with real life money. The excluding attitude of part of the elite squad is such a turnoff. As a newer player you will feel excluded and all but welcome. And if you dare to complain expect their rage. Before leaving one of my better WO friends was getting ignored and mistreated by someone they liked for some unique drama they had no control over. Let's just say the WU server I am part of is nothing like this. 

I agree entirely. I would love to make some sweeping changes to how unique slayings work. I refuse to attend private slayings anymore. They ruin the spirit of the game.

 

On 10/17/2018 at 11:42 AM, Joneya said:

Time sink. Need I say more? I sold my good WO accounts cause I simply couldn't stand the time spent getting almost nowhere. Good if you are unemployed perhaps, but I would get nowhere with the time I had available. 

This I have to disagree on. I'm employed in over my head and I find time to grind my skills slowly and steadily. Sometimes tastes change and you're looking for a faster-paced game. When that happens, it's not Wurm's fault - just find whatever tickles your fancy at the moment. We'll still be here when you're looking to slow it down again.

 

On 10/17/2018 at 11:42 AM, Joneya said:

Cost. If the game was faster and with a better community feel then I would probably not argue this one as much. I feel like I am already paying simply by the amount of effort that is required to accomplish much of anything. The community has frustrated me. I don't want to pay to be frustrated (no offense, I hope the people I actually am happy to have met know who they are - it's just the toxic drama...) 

I don't feel Wurm costs all that much. Not that I have any say in this, but I could theorize that the monthly cost could be reduced if we increased the amount of silver needed for in-game buys, or eliminated it entirely. The latter being quite unpopular I imagine. And yes, I do still pay for a few accounts. :) Not with silver, either. I like to support the game - not freeload off it!

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1 hour ago, Keenan said:

I don't feel Wurm costs all that much. Not that I have any say in this, but I could theorize that the monthly cost could be reduced if we increased the amount of silver needed for in-game buys, or eliminated it entirely. The latter being quite unpopular I imagine. And yes, I do still pay for a few accounts. :) Not with silver, either. I like to support the game - not freeload off it!

 

Keenan,  You have hit the nail on the head, bud!  Eliminate paying for premium time with Silver so as to force everyone to pay real money for premium time.

 

The problem is that there are too many (1 is too many imho) players who spend their real money buying high-end toons so they can craft and sell so much stuff they don't need to pay with real money to play the game.  This only hurts Code Clubs bottom line and hinders growth.  The rich-skilled players pay next to nothing to Code Club while the poor-skilled players have to pay ridiculous per-toon premium.

 

However, if the "Pay Premium With Silver" option were removed, and the devs subsequently set the premium back to 5EU a month, the price it used to be, this would bring in more money to Code Club overall and increase the count of players.

 

Another thing WO seriously needs is a cash shop.  This is long overdue.  Wurm has some of the best housing in the MMO universe!  So, milk that with a cash shop that provides special items for decorating houses.  Just an idea but it is sorely needed, I think.

 

Cheers.

 

 

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yeah make ecstatic items for sale in the shop. and allow them to be sold in game to make that the way people buy silver.

make all sales of silver for RL cash or items and accounts for RL cash illegal.

Ignore the market peeps that just want to keep prices high because they view this game like a job to make money in. 

focus on new players and new player retention fully.

 

new blood is what we need.

 

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1 hour ago, elroth said:

yeah make ecstatic items for sale in the shop. and allow them to be sold in game to make that the way people buy silver.

make all sales of silver for RL cash or items and accounts for RL cash illegal.

Ignore the market peeps that just want to keep prices high because they view this game like a job to make money in. 

focus on new players and new player retention fully.

 

new blood is what we need.

 

 

Wurm is a game. Anyone who relies upon it as a source of income is making a terrible life choice. We will not keep that aspect in mind when making future decisions. We will consider the balance of the game, but not the profits of a few individuals. I think we've made that clear in the past with fountain pans.

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