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ChampagneDragon

What has made you hate Wurm?

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can no longer disintegrate a man wearing a dragonscale suit of armour by throwing a pot of beef gravy at him the same temperature as the surface of the Sun

Edited by Ostentatio
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Toxicity and childishness of pvp community towards "enemies", but hate is such a strong word... i rather.... dislike the fact and has made me few times venture back to freedom rather than listen to that crap, i mean why should i? I rather go enjoy my self on hunting trips on freedom.

 

oh and i do hate timezones... yes that i hate... damn americanos, when stuff starts to happen, i rather go sleep than stay up from 1am to 7am and hey... its work time! no thanks :I

really makes me wonder if this game is worth my energy.

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The continuing dropping population that makes me question whether all the work I do on Wurm will end not because I want it to end (like when I quit other games) but because there will be no one else to do the work for or with.

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I've had a love/hate relationship with Wurm since I started in 2009. I actually took a hiatus in early 2011 'till late 2015, because I was so sick of what was going on;
The grinding, the failures, the 'wogic'. And having neighbors. I honestly don't get what keeps this game going, especially how it's lasted this long.

And the only things that keep bringing me back, are Impalongs (helping others and making the grind a bit less of a headache), server exploration via boat/horseback.. and of course throwing another month into upkeep. That's really the only reasons why I'm still playing.. other than the memories I had with this game (some bad, some not so bad).

Edited by Benie

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It's easy to have a burnout if you are not careful, didn't like when that hit me back then. ?

 

Toxic people, you rub someone the wrong way (even if unintentionally or due not being part of the PvP crowd, a mere PvE centric suggestion can be enough for this) and they fling several trucks worth of ###### back at you and everyone you know.

Even though thats mostly up to the community and not the game itself, I have seen it a lot more here than in other MMOs; maybe because the Wurm community is such a small bunch, idk - makes me sad most of the time anyhow and then I avoid any chat/forum/ etc. ?

 

Xanadus lag... I did consider moving for a long time, but all the work I had already put into the deed... ?

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*Hate* is too strong a word for me to use in terms of Wurm. I can't relate to that at all. There are very few things in life that I waste my thoughts and focus upon "hating". Gripes about Wurm? Yeah sure, I have had a number of those along the years but since I can't really do anything about those other than maybe comment about them on the forums, after that I move on to enjoying other things about the game. There will always be things that I/we don't like about the game so then it just comes to the point where you can either tolerate them or move on somewhere else. I don't see much point in focusing on the bad rather than the good and tomorrow always offers the possibility of more enjoyable content to come.

 

=Ayes=

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The fact that I can't sit down and have a cup of coffee while I'm sitting at the computer having a cup of coffee.

 

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Interesting thread. Brings up a lot of really interesting points. I'll try my best poking at issues that I believe I can touch on.

 

On 8/20/2018 at 6:26 PM, ChampagneDragon said:

One personal goal left. To be upfront, I almost didn't do my personal goals because I find fishing to be incredibly boring, and pointless. I can get good soul depth from farming and pottery (both 95+ skills). I don't need the fish, so why grind it. But I bit the bullet, made my wine, repaired 6250 fences, and psyched myself up for catching a big fish. I had  talked to several people who said I'd need to grind fishing up to 80 or so. I had sleep powders plus full sleep bonus ready. I had a good Lurker in the Deep pendulum. I had affinity meals. I got a rare fishing rod with 90coc and was  93ql. made lines that were 85ish ql. I was ready.

 

Around 75 skill I went and found my marlin spot. Pretty quickly I caught a 163kg marlin! This wasn't going to be too bad after all. Famous last words.

 

Yikes. That's a rough one. So after reading this, I decided to do a bit of digging on Wyvern, the long-lasting Wurm Unlimited server with over 700,000 player hours played. Fun fact: there was someone who achieved 99.9999966521108 fishing skill! I decided to look up his achievements and found that he had caught 17,521 fish to achieve that (faster skill gain server, by the way). However, I then looked up the achievement for catching the big fish. Not to be found. In 17,500 fish, not a single one was over 175kg. His magic chest had 99.9QL and higher quality fish. It had rares over 95QL. It was quite a spectacle of fishing, but through the whole time, not a single fish was 175kg or higher.

 

So, I dug a little deeper. I tried to figure out why this might be the case. The truth is that the fish must be a marlin or white shark of over 87.5QL in order to qualify for the achievement. This isn't easy to do, but it's still possible. However, now that I've fully investigated why that happens, perhaps it might be time to change the qualifications to be a little bit more relaxed. Obtaining such a high QL fish of such a specific type seems a bit overboard.

 

On 8/21/2018 at 1:47 AM, whereami said:

Where do I start?

The lack of bugfixes. Bugs that have existed for over 8 years are still in the game to this day, and with the addition of Sindusk to the team some are only just now starting to be looked at.

The general lack of care for PvP or endgame mechanics or making them work properly without being imbalanced.

The toxic mentalities and general degradation of the playerbase, PvP used to be an enjoyable experience where everyone just wanted to have fun or get a good fight in. Now it's turned into lootwars online, but looting is mostly impossible unless single-handedly involved in killing someone which rarely ever occurs if at all, because PvP fights are about numbers and no one engages in 1v1's period. Even if they know they have the upper hand.

The decline in population, which over many years is kind of to be expected, but there used to be twice the number of people actively playing. (I do not count alts of any kind)

Oh god and the personal goal bull####... Yeah guys lets give out the most valuable items currently in the game (The ones that break PvP apart quite literally at its seams) as rewards for completing tasks delegated entirely by RNG. Sounds like a great idea! /endsarcasm
Anyone remember the 90+QL Star Gem goal? As far as the game is concerned you couldn't actually complete that goal on purpose. The only thing you can do is hollow out entire mountains and hope that RNJesus favors you by giving you a next-to-impossible roll. Then they removed it. But does that make the whole thing any better? Not IMO.

I could go on for ages. The game used to be the only thing I ever wanted to play. Nowadays I try as hard as I can to find something else to hold my attention.

  • Bugfixes are near and dear to me. In all my time playing, being interrupted by hitting a bug was some of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had in Wurm. In the case of PvP, it can cost you everything. They need to be addressed in a timely manner and I'm doing my best to ensure that happens. In the cases where they are not addressed, I try and give the explanation as to why it's so difficult to fix instead.
  • PvP is a wild project to tackle. There's so many viewpoints on how PvP should be played and what should/shouldn't be allowed that it's really hard to iron out what PvP should actually look like. That said, I've had productive conversations with a lot of existing and former PvP players, and a plan is in place that should put us on track for PvP becoming easier to create and maintain. Can't really go into detail on the specifics yet, but there are indeed plans.
  • A lot of the mentality for PvP players being so hostile tends to stem from the stakes. A death can be extremely costly, and that creates a pattern of behaviour similar to a blowfish where they puff up and make themselves look dangerous. In the case of the blowfish, it looks a little weird and is effective. In the case of human beings chatting online, it makes them looks like jerks. Reducing the stakes and giving more reason to play at low risk is something I'm working towards. While having expensive stuff should give you a significant upper hand, it shouldn't invalidate the rest of the players entirely. I've watched Deathangel's videos recently and really enjoy the amount of respectful combat that's seen there. Working towards encouraging more of that is a personal goal I've set.
  • No comment on personal goals.
On 8/21/2018 at 3:24 AM, platinumteef said:

the uncertainty is killing me and has made me fairly upset with the game overall

 

major elements of the game were changed despite constant reassurance from devs/staff that these things would NEVER happen

map resets, transfers, items being removed after years of being told they were 'legacy items", epic armor changes to freedom (which is good btw, but still it was told it was NEVER going to happen) to name a few

 

it makes me wonder if my time invested into the game is worth anything at this point and I'm finding it hard to continue playing because I feel like we're headed into another transition time, where we're likely to see some changes to the structure of pvp servers and the outcome might not be an enjoyable experience for myself and those that I play with. Unfortunately, I'll never know up until a month prior to the changes happening because thats the way wurm works

 

I have a few personal skill goals that I'd like to reach that will be done soon and then I might just take a few months break to see where the game goes

 

A lot of this is the byproduct of shifting times and a code base that wasn't built for long-term maintenance. Ideas sometimes sound bad (or impossible) when first proposed. As time goes on, it starts to become more and more apparent that it's necessary to fix whatever the problem is. Work gets done to make it happen, and the change comes through despite all the previous opposition against it. For example, the armour changes recently were actually tooled as a "hot toggle" of sorts, where they can be turned off and on without a server restart. We now have the option, due to the code refactor, to implement more toggles like that and create changes that can be implemented to live with far less risk if something we didn't predict begins to happen. This type of long-term thinking will make it much easier to adjust how things work in the future. All of my work follows this guideline and is aimed at making it as flexible as possible to adjust to the new atmosphere as the game evolves.

 

I understand the concerns behind map resets and legacy items. I'm unsure as to the philosophy on those items (I only joined recently, after all). Someone else would have to touch on that point.

 

On 8/21/2018 at 11:48 AM, Ostentatio said:

can no longer disintegrate a man wearing a dragonscale suit of armour by throwing a pot of beef gravy at him the same temperature as the surface of the Sun

 

I once got hit with a filled boiling cauldron of water. I died instantly with 80QL glimmersteel plate. Good times.

 

On 8/21/2018 at 6:11 PM, Themystrix said:

Toxicity and childishness of pvp community towards "enemies", but hate is such a strong word... i rather.... dislike the fact and has made me few times venture back to freedom rather than listen to that crap, i mean why should i? I rather go enjoy my self on hunting trips on freedom.

 

oh and i do hate timezones... yes that i hate... damn americanos, when stuff starts to happen, i rather go sleep than stay up from 1am to 7am and hey... its work time! no thanks :I

really makes me wonder if this game is worth my energy.

 

My comment above to whereami touches on player mentality. However, you mentioned time zones which has plagued me in the past. It's sometimes extremely impossible for European players have a difficult time handling an American assault because of the time zone difference. When Europeans' attack, the American players are generally at work and can at least do something, especially if they get off work quickly after the assault begins. In the reverse, however, the American group is attacking after midnight in European time, and the European group would need to make a choice between living a healthy life and getting some sleep or defending their deed from an attack. As an American player, I'm familiar with both sides of this and seen how it affects people. Europeans accused me of attacking at off times out of weakness, though we had all just eaten dinner and were at our peak time.

 

I can't really think of anything off the top of my head that would be suitable to solve this problem. If you have any ideas, I urge you to post in the Suggestions & Ideas forum with whatever you can think of. I'd be interested to discuss potential solutions to the problem and, if all goes well, begin working on making it happen.

 

My personal gripe

 

So now it's my turn to answer the question at hand. What bothers me most about Wurm. It's not something specific, and it's not an idea either. It's a single system that has bothered me since I started playing, and I've actively made an absurd amount of changes to it including a full replacement for my WU server.

 

Combat. The whole thing. I dislike the concept of CR as a whole. I dislike the amount of random elements during combat that you cannot control. I dislike the meta where 1/5th of the content in the game is considered viable for combat. I want to see more diversity in strategy and tactics beyond gate hopping and spamming heals & shield bash. I want to see special moves have an important place in combat both for PvE and PvP. I want to see mobs stronger than trolls on PvE servers, bridging the gap between trolls and uniques (allowing small hunting parties to be productive).

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29 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

So, I dug a little deeper. I tried to figure out why this might be the case. The truth is that the fish must be a marlin or white shark of over 87.5QL in order to qualify for the achievement. This isn't easy to do, but it's still possible. However, now that I've fully investigated why that happens, perhaps it might be time to change the qualifications to be a little bit more relaxed. Obtaining such a high QL fish of such a specific type seems a bit overboard.

 

It used to be 190kg fish, it was already made a lot easier by dropping it from 95ql to 87.5ql two months ago.  Between myself/Sme, we completed the fish goal when it was 190kg twice, only taking a few hundreds sharks each time. If the goal was only 175kg for us, it would have been completed a lot faster.  It's not as hard as people make it out to be, just make sure to grind the skill first.  After all, you aren't going to try to imp something to 90ql for the 90ql goal from scratch with 70 skill

 

Also be very careful with wishing special moves to be important.  Some of them used to be ridiculously overpowered to the point that champion accounts in seryll plate (when it used to be 80% dr) would get killed in less than 10 hits of special moves.  Others were ridiculously overpowered as with just two people you could endlessly stunlock someone and whittle them down to death

Edited by MrGARY

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On 8/21/2018 at 8:48 AM, Ostentatio said:

can no longer disintegrate a man wearing a dragonscale suit of armour by throwing a pot of beef gravy at him the same temperature as the surface of the Sun

 

This.

 

Also I hate the account management system.

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Maybe it's wurm who hates me?

 

RcK6FFu.png

 

These are my last 2 Personal Goals - and i've been a priest for the last 3 years.

There is no way i'm dropping priest after waiting so long for the religion overhaul either ?

 

 

Edited by Rocklobstar
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13 minutes ago, Rocklobstar said:

Maybe it's wurm who hates me?

 

RcK6FFu.png

 

These are my last 2 Personal Goals - and i've been a priest for the last 3 years.

There is no way i'm dropping priest after waiting so long for the religion overhaul either ?

 

 

I’ve heard those could be done pretty easily on epic if you find someone to lend you a 98.99ql item. Can do it with low skill

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13 minutes ago, Rocklobstar said:

and what? leave my winner prize on epic?

Ah damn, good point that does suck ?

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

 

It used to be 190kg fish, it was already made a lot easier by dropping it from 95ql to 87.5ql two months ago.  Between myself/Sme, we completed the fish goal when it was 190kg twice, only taking a few hundreds sharks each time. If the goal was only 175kg for us, it would have been completed a lot faster.  It's not as hard as people make it out to be, just make sure to grind the skill first.  After all, you aren't going to try to imp something to 90ql for the 90ql goal from scratch with 70 skill

 

 

Seriously??? A few hundreds sharks?

 

Currently I have 42,500 marlin filets. The max you can get from one marlin is 50, so that means at least 850 marlin. I also  have 12,500 shark filets. So,  250 sharks. I gave up on sharks because each time I'd go afk I'd end up feverish from poison.

 

Remember, I didn't start fishing for marlin or sharks until I had 75 skill. 

 

I'm using a rare rod. Today it was imped to 95. My skill hit 87 today. At 80ish skill I caught a 143kg marlin. At 86 skill I got a 164kg marlin. 

 

I'd REALLY like to know how you both caught them "with a few hundred sharks". Several people have said a few THOUSAND.

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2 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

It used to be 190kg fish, it was already made a lot easier by dropping it from 95ql to 87.5ql two months ago.  Between myself/Sme, we completed the fish goal when it was 190kg twice, only taking a few hundreds sharks each time. If the goal was only 175kg for us, it would have been completed a lot faster.  It's not as hard as people make it out to be, just make sure to grind the skill first.  After all, you aren't going to try to imp something to 90ql for the 90ql goal from scratch with 70 skill

 

Also be very careful with wishing special moves to be important.  Some of them used to be ridiculously overpowered to the point that champion accounts in seryll plate (when it used to be 80% dr) would get killed in less than 10 hits of special moves.  Others were ridiculously overpowered as with just two people you could endlessly stunlock someone and whittle them down to death

was this on epic? maybe the curve made a difference?

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1 minute ago, ChampagneDragon said:

Seriously??? A few hundreds sharks?

 

Currently I have 42,500 marlin filets. The max you can get from one marlin is 50, so that means at least 850 marlin. I also  have 12,500 shark filets. So,  250 sharks. I gave up on sharks because each time I'd go afk I'd end up feverish from poison.

 

Remember, I didn't start fishing for marlin or sharks until I had 75 skill. 

 

I'm using a rare rod. Today it was imped to 95. My skill hit 87 today. At 80ish skill I caught a 143kg marlin. At 86 skill I got a 164kg marlin. 

 

I'd REALLY like to know how you both caught them "with a few hundred sharks". Several people have said a few THOUSAND.

 

Filetting gives 50 but bulking gives 83 since filets are 0.5kg but bulk base weight is 0.3kg, so you have 512 marlin and 151 sharks.  We didn't attempt until around 90 skill, as I said, you wouldn't try to imp a 90ql item from scratch with 70 skill.

Other than that it was just a 90-95ql fine fishing rod with a glimmer skill level bonus rune that I have no idea if it does anything useful or not

 

1 minute ago, Xor said:

 

was this on epic? maybe the curve made a difference?

 

Yes, and yes it would.  70 with curve is 91 effective, which is the "around 90 skill" mentioned above.  So either try with 90 skill on freedom or 70 on epic, or do 90 on epic for extra bonus.  But again remember these were the older and harder 190kg goals, so with 90 actual/effective the 175kg goal should be much easier

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@SinduskI amt definitely not knocking the great work you're doing Sindusk. I cannot explain how happy and thankful I am for the conversations we have had with you already, all the bugs you have already fixed. But the sad reality is that you've just only begun to scratch the surface of the love this one single facet of the game needs. And that's only one group of mechanics. There are so many others that need some love as well.

Wurm is truly at its heart an outstanding game, with incredible depth and attention to detail. That's why even though I've learned to hate the game with a specific undying passion.. Here I am, on year 10.

 

I do want to touch on one thing that Platinumteef mentioned as well, and that is the uncertainty. I cannot explain to you how many times I've seen Enki or other GM's go back on their word. I can mention some specific scenarios. Fountain pans which we were told were legacy items and wouldn't be removed, and then that was backtracked on, costing the players who invested in them hundreds of EUR in the process. This extends to PvP as well. Dual-enchantment weapons (which, granted they were created due to bugs or faulty mechanics) we were also told something similar, that they would remain in the game and were not against any rules to use. Then Enki knowingly RIPPED them out of players HANDS, leaving them on a PVP server with NO WEAPON equipped for when they logged in, something that could extremely easily be the potential instant-death of a player on PvP. GM rulings have said before that there would be no circumstances that would warrant specific no-pvp zones or even sever wide PvP bans unless mechanics across the board were severely broken or exploitable. Yet I have seen these things done and enacted. Not to mention that you still have one, specific GM working for your team that wasn't even fired or relieved from their position for the dastardly deeds they knowingly and willingly committed, and then bragged about via public channel... (Borderline rule breaker there, so I'll leave at that..  fingers crossed this post doesn't get removed for simply even mentioning it... 5 bucks says it will though.)

Edited by whereami
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For me , just two things really, the rest are sorta "meh" or bearable. 

 

1) No roadmap. I'd like to know a general direction of where wurm is going. It's a 10 year ol' game for chrissakes yet it feels like it has no general aim or direction much  like WoW lacked/lacks. The reason I'm making that comparison is due to the fact that wow had an improvised story, no clear narrative outline from the get go, everything was made up as they went along like the Lost series. And after a point all the updates and expansions started to drive people away instead of bringing them. But I digress.

 

To me at least, wurm these days feels like a giant ship riddled with holes, taking on water, with no bearing, no direction, the sky is cloudy, the stars aren't in sight and someone broke the compass. I would like to know what's going to happen to Epic, to the tutorial, to the game. Even stuff like "On the 11th of september we'll be unveiling our new brand new advertising program" or something among those lines would do magic to boost my confidence in wurm and the dev team. It doesn't matter if when the deadline hits, they'll say they need a few more weeks to "tweak things" and stuff , that tends to happen in the game business all the time, as long as when they implement it properly at the end (which rarely happens anyways with today's gaming culture) but I can dream :D. It's more about giving your community a sense of direction so they don't feel blindsided by new updates that might actually end up driving away players. I get it's a fragile line to walk between player input and developer volition, the desire to make the game how the devs want to make the game. If you end up listening to just the players you'll end up with a contradictory mess of a game but if you end up not listening to them at all, you'll end up shoving a product down people's throats and they will refuse to pay for it. 

 

Still the lack of a roadmap is very troubling at this point for me, as I said , Wurm is a decade old, by now it should have a clear direction. It's like a 10 year anniversary where you start to reflect on things and maybe what the future holds for you. The good things : at least we have Valrei International to give us news, that I am sure we can all appreciate. Is wurm still going to be on java in 5 years? Is the tutorial going to be fixed by 2019? Etc. 

 

I could go on but you get the idea.

 

2) My other gripe is plain and simple, I've played on epic since 2012 or so, and it's been my home. What saddened me is seeing the mass exodus of players to freedom due to a bad transfer idea. "Whatever you gain on freedom you keep on epic, skill-wise. Whatever you gain on Epic? Stays on epic! No more going to freedom, no point to grind on epic since grind is 75% of the game." I am now pretty sure, looking in hindsight that the two main things that killed epic overall were the imbalances in pvp, valrei, meditation, armors, etc  and the lack of certainty. Epic players like myself simply were looking at the dwindling numbers since 2015. We lost players every year, 2017 being the nail in the coffin, reducing the overall Epic population to under 100. At that point, most of us were wondering if it was worth it, maybe we should quit. And most people did. 

 

Then came the transfers and everyone left for freedom. There's like maybe 12 people playing Epic, you can learn them by name, and it's sad because you have zero motivation to play on Epic and that beloved server has turned into a hiking destination for people to complete personal goals just so they can sell a cherry charge for 250 euros. It's....sad to see such a place becoming a joke. 

 

I could go on, but I think my liver couldn't handle the bitterness I feel over it. Pretty much those are the reasons I hate the game. I also love it, else I would not hate it in the first place. 

 

Oh, a P.S. : I hate the fact that people can use real life money to buy pvp advantages. I'm sorry but any game that allows any form of pay to win nuance, is a shame. It turns into a wallet warrior situation that ends up toxic for everyone. 

 

Edited by elentari
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On 8/23/2018 at 2:34 AM, Sindusk said:

 

My personal gripe

I want to see mobs stronger than trolls on PvE servers, bridging the gap between trolls and uniques (allowing small hunting parties to be productive).

 

Which is what Valrei mobs are, or rather were, for me on Epic, a step up from trolls, I'm not top tier on Epic, but the lack of Valrei mobs has put an additional damper on my Epic adventure, they added some extra danger and excitement over the 'normal' mobs I hunt on Freedom, why they ceased spawning on Epic is actually a bit of a mystery to me, I can see a certain argument that they were possibly an added disadvantage to new players, but along with the lower population, the lack of Nogumps and spirits has sucked the last vestiges of uniqueness from Epic, it's pretty much a cluster that apart from action timers, effective skill and skillgain is no different from Freedom.

 

Not all of us want life easier, sometimes a 5 minute running battle with a nogump is far more fun than a 1 minute massacre of a troll.

 

I suppose Rift mobs might be considered as high end, but those are confined to single restricted spawns, and generally are wiped out in a couple of hours, (though on low population Epic servers they can be there for months), but if you want more widespread, and persistent middle tier mobs, Varei mobs probably fit the bill.

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More seriously, I will share one legitimate gripe I have with Wurm, that I consider very difficult to resolve:

 

I feel that Xanadu is a wasted opportunity.

 

To explain: The geography of a server is important to its look, its feel, where people settle, and all kinds of things. Xanadu, being the largest server, has the greatest opportunity for geographical diversity, but doesn't really show much; it's like a random heightmap where any section of the map is indistinguishable from the whole in terms of geographical patterns. It easily has room for sprawling deserts, realistic-looking mountain ranges, volcanic islands, and any number of other neat features, but it just... doesn't, really. It's a shame, because I doubt the same opportunity will arise any time soon.

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On 8/22/2018 at 10:46 PM, ChampagneDragon said:

I'm using a rare rod. Today it was imped to 95. My skill hit 87 today. At 80ish skill I caught a 143kg marlin. At 86 skill I got a 164kg marlin.

 

You stick a gathering rune on that rod?

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