Posted August 29, 2018 Like it or not, there is a meaningful rationale behind the 10-tile requirement. Meditation is about clearing and quietening the mind. In Wurm this reasonably translates into having to clear all that window clutter from your screen when you step away from the worldly preoccupations of your work, at least every other time you do it. Granted, having to move ten tiles isn't the best way of representing this, as often in real life it's best to use a single designated spot for meditation – new spaces bring new stimuli and therefore distraction. Personally, I wouldn't mind if the 10-tile requirement removed and replaced with the following, which I see as being much more representative of real-life meditation: All container/inventory windows must be closed prior to initiating meditation. Opening any will interrupt the meditation action. No players within X tiles (let's say 10) can be performing any actions other than meditating, praying, and maybe a few others that involve silence. If any other player starts a disallowed action within range, the meditation action is interrupted. As a side note: When I started playing, my playing style made it relatively easy to raise meditation, as I didn't run multiple clients at the same time. I welcomed the regular break from grindy activities, and worked meditations in and around various tasks like farming, tending animals, etc. It really was no bother having to move around, because who wants to spend 2.5hrs in the exact same spot when playing a single account anyway? I expect it's really only a nuisance to players running multiple clients simultaneously (of which I am now one) but I really don't feel the game should pander specifically to this playing style. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 29, 2018 36 minutes ago, Gwyn said: All container/inventory windows must be closed prior to initiating meditation. Opening any will interrupt the meditation action. No players within X tiles (let's say 10) can be performing any actions other than meditating, praying, and maybe a few others that involve silence. If any other player starts a disallowed action within range, the meditation action is interrupted. is this a troll? serious question as especially the second idea is high performance fuel for griefers. someones meditating? start ringing a bell 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, MrGARY said: is this a troll? serious question as especially the second idea is high performance fuel for griefers. someones meditating? start ringing a bell No, I don't troll. The griefing aspect hadn't occurred to me as it really wouldn't be an issue for me personally or, I would wager, for the majority of players. I've never had anyone malicious in my immediate vicinity, at least not for any amount of time where it would become an issue in relation to this suggestion. If you're referring to griefing from deed mates, well, there are already ten thousand ways they can choose to make your game miserable. But why would they? And if they do, they probably won't stay deed mates / allies for long. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 29, 2018 This is not a roleplaying game Gwyn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 29, 2018 Roleplaying that way ----> 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 29, 2018 I don't know if I like Gwyn's suggestions per se, but I agree with their basic point: That meditation has a certain flavor to it, and even if the 10-tile requirement is changed, removing it and then leaving it at that really feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 29, 2018 48 minutes ago, Ostentatio said: I don't know if I like Gwyn's suggestions per se, but I agree with their basic point: That meditation has a certain flavor to it, and even if the 10-tile requirement is changed, removing it and then leaving it at that really feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You know, they can remove the 10 tile requirement and it will not affect your play style one bit, cause you can still move 10 tiles each time you want to meditate and thus full fill your ideal's of what ever you think moving 10 tiles should achieve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, JakeRivers said: You know, they can remove the 10 tile requirement and it will not affect your play style one bit, cause you can still move 10 tiles each time you want to meditate and thus full fill your ideal's of what ever you think moving 10 tiles should achieve. Like I said, I think they can do better than "move 10 tiles". I'm not saying the current situation is ideal. Assuming players will intentionally play suboptimally is a poor design decision, especially when the optimal choice is so obvious. I'm talking about how mechanics inform play, not how players may intentionally restrict themselves. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 Hey guys sorry it took me so long to bump this thread, I had to walk 10 tiles to do it. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 By the way, you can (or could) bypass the ten-tile requirement simply by relogging. At any rate, I don't see that moving ten tiles does anything useful; I'd deep six that mechanic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Roccandil said: simply by relogging. 1 *Wurm's most re-used feature. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 -1, I enjoy efficiency but think it can be taken too far. Part of what is enjoyable is the challenge of finding efficiency within the confines of existing gameplay. It would make a good mod for a WU server designed to cater to an easier experience, but just as some mods are too harsh for WO, some run the risk of over-simplifying WO. Depends the target audience for WO I guess. I prefer the harsher, laborious side... so maybe my -1 should be read as a +1 for WO ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 You cannot make up the masochism people in this game exhibit. It is literally 10 tiles, this is not some grand overcoming of a problem. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 Each time I successfully move the needed number of tiles for my next meditation I like to look and my participation trophies and reflect on all the accomplishments I have achieved. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, FranktheTank said: You cannot make up the masochism people in this game exhibit. It is literally 10 tiles, this is not some grand overcoming of a problem. Grand enough apparently. As I said, I don't really like the uber-efficiency grind to the core mindset for Wurm. Some thought I was a masochist just because I actually liked the new cooking system, and they wanted one veg, one meat to rule the world. It's just a general mindset I don't subscribe to. I want a thousand trellises, but I don't want to have to deal with them so change the game. I want the benefits of cooking, but don't want to have to cook, so change the game. I want the benefits of meditation, but don't feel like doing what the game requires, change the game. I just PvP'd someone who had 2 pets and lost, change the game. Perfectly fine. The approach is just not my cup of tea. Heck, I didn't even raise an eyebrow when Rolf suggested we might have to put some oil in our oil lamps. I'm a masochist yo. Edited September 21, 2018 by Reylaark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Reylaark said: I want a thousand trellises, but I don't want to have to deal with them so change the game. I automate information technology for a living, so finding extra clicking desirable is extremely alien to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, Reylaark said: I want a thousand trellises, but I don't want to have to deal with them so change the game. I want the benefits of cooking, but don't want to have to cook, so change the game. I want the benefits of meditation, but don't feel like doing what the game requires, change the game. I just PvP'd someone who had 2 pets and lost, change the game. These are not even remotely comparable to moving 10 tiles to complete a skill tick that already takes waiting time, and frankly trying to compare it to that is disingenuous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Reylaark said: I'm a masochist yo. Clearly. and 'Misery loves company.' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Reylaark said: I want a thousand trellises, but I don't want to have to deal with them so change the game. I want the benefits of cooking, but don't want to have to cook, so change the game. How is this even comparable to moving 10 tiles? I cranked 500 trellis easy, well it would of been easy if I didn't have to close all my containers every time I needed to move 10 tiles to meditate. Same goes for cooking, and anything else. Moving 10 tiles adds nothing to the game play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, JakeRivers said: Moving 10 tiles adds nothing to the game play. In which case it'll get removed. Having to move 10 tiles sounds less like a QOL issue than a "I don't feel like doing this" issue. The 10 windows having to be opened and closed sounds like the QOL issue needing the fix. There was another suggestion about windows not closing due to distance I think? Something like the "fix window" option allowing windows to remain open while on deed (just an example) might help. The issue you're having isn't limited to Meditation. In the long run, suggestions on making the UI more efficient so you don't need 10 windows to begin with sounds like the way to go. In the short term, something allowing windows to stay open. Edit: I think it might be "lock window" rather than fix... but you get what I'm saying. Edited September 21, 2018 by Reylaark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, Reylaark said: The 10 windows having to be opened and closed sounds like the QOL issue needing the fix. I think the majority of the player base would agree that container windows staying open when you move out of range of being able to interact with said containers would be annoying. Most of us are happy that moving away closes up the containers, rather than manually clicking off individual windows when you are done with them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, JakeRivers said: I think the majority of the player base would agree that container windows staying open when you move out of range of being able to interact with said containers would be annoying. Most of us are happy that moving away closes up the containers, rather than manually clicking off individual windows when you are done with them. Hence my saying an option. Edit: To expound a bit, it's a situational problem with the UI, not a problem with meditation. You use the need to reopen the windows as the reason to change meditation. Since the problem you're having is needing to reopen the windows, fix that. If the problem is you want to change meditation and the windows are irrelevant, then that's a different premise. Edited September 21, 2018 by Reylaark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) There has still not been a genuine argument against removing the 10 tile move aside from "I had to do it you should to". Edited September 21, 2018 by FranktheTank Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, FranktheTank said: There has still not been a genuine argument against removing the 10 tile move aside from "I had to do it you should to". It's kind of arguing a moving target though. If the issue is as the OP said, then changing meditation isn't necessary. The problem isn't meditation, it's the windows opening and closing. If the issue has nothing to do with windows opening and closing, but is rather that the OP doesn't feel like moving... that's not QOL. That's "I don't feel like doing this." Fair enough. I don't know why the windows were brought up to begin with as that's not what anyone actually wants to fix. If you don't feel like doing something then there's really nothing to argue. You don't feel like doing it. I don't think that's reason enough to alter what the devs implement, personally. Even the devs don't agree with me on that though as they have made changes based on "I don't feel like doing this" issues in the past. Bigger issues than moving 10 tiles, as people have pointed out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 21, 2018 Windows are also a lot better about retaining position than they used to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites