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JakeRivers

QOL - Meditation

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"Moving 10 tiles isn't that much or a big deal and it really doesn't have an impact on the difficulty, leave it in!"

 

"Moving 10 tiles isn't that much or a big deal and it really doesn't have an impact on the difficulty but is an annoyance, take it out!"

 

/thread

Edited by FranktheTank

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19 hours ago, FranktheTank said:

"Moving 10 tiles isn't that much or a big deal and it really doesn't have an impact on the difficulty, leave it in!"

 

"Moving 10 tiles isn't that much or a big deal and it really doesn't have an impact on the difficulty but is an annoyance, take it out!"

 

/thread

 

Pretty much every thread for a while now it seems. 

It's so silly how much misery loves company. 

 

"I went through it, so you should too!" 

 

Thanks, Baby Boomers. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Trake said:

 

Pretty much every thread for a while now it seems. 

It's so silly how much misery loves company. 

 

"I went through it, so you should too!" 

 

Thanks, Baby Boomers. 

 

 

It is literally the same argument, both sides agree its not that big of a deal.

 

Yet neither wants to budge. It is like congress is a beautiful disaster.

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YoU sHoUlD hAvE tO mOvE yOuR cHaRaCtEr NeEdS a BrEaK fRoM cRaFtInG, iN a ViRtUaL gAmE.

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It's there so you don't burn the containers into you monitor screens...

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44 minutes ago, armyskin said:

It's there so you don't burn the containers into you monitor screens...

 

All you old men and your old CRT monitors. 

Luckily, I use LCD or pixel-shifting plasma's. 

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8 hours ago, Trake said:

 

All you old men and your old CRT monitors. 

Luckily, I use LCD or pixel-shifting plasma's. 

Yet you still have to move 10 tiles to meditate.

 

What a dumb and pointless activity. What is the point of it again?

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-1

If meditation mechanics are annoying, the skill (like any other) can be simply ignored. Noone else but you forces you to grind that and when you fail to reach the goals set only by yourself, that is not mechanics fault. Just like not everyone HAS to have 90+ weaponsmithing, not everyone HAS to have 90+ meditation.

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10 hours ago, rixk said:

Just like not everyone HAS to have 90+ weaponsmithing, not everyone HAS to have 90+ meditation.

 

ok but like you want the skill so you're going to get it no matter what right?  the end result is either way the guy wanting 90 skill will get 90 skill because its not like moving makes it harder at all, it's just a waste of time with absolutely nothing gained from it, that isnt even required to do if you log off between meds, so it is literally a punishment for playing the game

 

but last I knew when I grinded to 90 weaponsmithing I didn't have to move 10 tiles every 30m.  in fact you can prep a spot so you dont have to move an inch from 1.00 to 90.00 skill, so you aren't wasting time and actually playing

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The arguments being made against are extremely nonsensical for something so insignificant. This is 100% a situation of "I walked 10 tiles you have to as well".

 

All the sides seem to agree it doesn't change anything, so why have the additional regulation at all? I don't get it.

Edited by FranktheTank
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4 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

The arguments being made against are extremely nonsensical for something so insignificant. This is 100% a situation of "I walked 10 tiles you have to as well".

 

All the sides seem to agree it doesn't change anything, so why have the additional regulation at all? I don't get it.

 

Because, deep down, they don't actually want new players.

It's all about securing their 'investments' by making sure they are the only ones tortured in this lovely game. 

Misery loves company. 

 

"Daddy beat me with a belt, so you deserve to be beaten too. It's called discipline." 

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38 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

but last I knew when I grinded to 90 weaponsmithing I didn't have to move 10 tiles every 30m.  in fact you can prep a spot so you dont have to move an inch from 1.00 to 90.00 skill, so you aren't wasting time and actually playing

 

Yes, but weapon smithing isn't meditating. They're different skills and work differently, and require different kinds of time/material/effort investments. Moving around in order to meditate is "actually playing" just as much as having to mine iron or improve a hammer.

 

3 minutes ago, Trake said:

Because, deep down, they don't actually want new players.

It's all about securing their 'investments' by making sure they are the only ones tortured in this lovely game. 

Misery loves company. 

 

"Daddy beat me with a belt, so you deserve to be beaten too. It's called discipline." 

 

Assuming bad faith like this is neither appropriate, constructive, nor helpful.

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40 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

Assuming bad faith like this is neither appropriate, constructive, nor helpful.

Well then what is it? If it is not a huge deal, and is mostly and annoyance, but people still are -1ing a quality of life improvement it points to a mindset deep in bad faith. There has not yet been a legitimate counter argument to taking away the 10 tiles rule, so we have had:

 

1. Doesn't want the change because it is seen as unnecessary, says moving 10 tiles is not a big deal.

2. Feels meditation should be to "take a break" this is not a legitimate reason to have to stop skill gains to "take a break" the use of fishing as an example was nonsensical because fishing skill is gained each and every time.

3. 10 tiles isn't much (again then why be against removing it?)

4. "if you are upset you have to move 10 tiles you should meditate more" (appeal to insult)

5. Claims meditation is unique in how it is trained so it is a good thing that you move 10 tiles. (Not sure what this is even supposed to reference, all skills are uniquely trained, let me know when I can go hunting in one spot, or chop trees, etc)

6. If meditation is so annoying don't train it! Not all skills are meant to 90! (This was almost the worst argument, don't train a skill because of a 10 tile move? This is a quality of life adjustment, 10 tiles does not change skill gains it is just nonsensical pile on.)

Edited by FranktheTank

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Just now, FranktheTank said:

Well then what is it? If it is not a huge deal, and is mostly and annoyance, but people still are -1ing a quality of life improvement it points to a mindset deep in bad faith.

 

I don't see it as a "quality of life" improvement. I like that the skill works differently from other skills, including the fact that it requires you to actually move around once in a while. To me, that's a feature. "Quality of life" doesn't just mean "make it easier" or "remove a requirement". It would be nice if the movement requirement were a bit more meaningful or interesting, but I don't think removing it helps; I'd rather see the skill be more meaningfully unique, not less.

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6 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

I don't see it as a "quality of life" improvement. I like that the skill works differently from other skills, including the fact that it requires you to actually move around once in a while. To me, that's a feature. "Quality of life" doesn't just mean "make it easier" or "remove a requirement". It would be nice if the movement requirement were a bit more meaningful or interesting, but I don't think removing it helps; I'd rather see the skill be more meaningfully unique, not less.

Meaningfully unique? What does that even mean?

 

Meditation is meaningfully unique in the fact you level up meditation and go down a path that is unique from all the skills in the game, and the other paths. Moving 10 tiles is not what makes a skill "unique to train" that is ridiculous. The skill doesn't work differently from anything else you still perform and timed action.

Edited by FranktheTank

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4 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

The skill doesn't work differently from anything else you still perform and timed action.

 

Meditation also has mandatory wait time between skill checks, a soft cap on how many you can get per day, very long wait periods before advancing on a path level -- which is also the only way to benefit from the skill -- and strict requirements for where you need to be in order to gain those path levels. I had to travel quite a distance just to find/make a Path of Power tile, for instance. In these ways, the skill already works markedly different from pretty much all others in the game.

 

In the case of moving 10 tiles: I like the idea of some skills requiring, or incentivizing, moving around instead of staying locked to the same place. Meditation isn't the only one that does this, and there are skills that arguably do it better, but if the 10 tile movement is insignificant or only serves as an annoyance, I'd rather see it revamped into something more interesting rather than removed entirely.

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6 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

Meditation also has mandatory wait time between skill checks, a soft cap on how many you can get per day, very long wait periods before advancing on a path level -- which is also the only way to benefit from the skill -- and strict requirements for where you need to be in order to gain those path levels. I had to travel quite a distance just to find/make a Path of Power tile, for instance. In these ways, the skill already works markedly different from pretty much all others in the game.

 

Grinding faith has a mandatory wait time between faith gains, a hard cap on how many you can get per day, very long waiting period to get high faith which is also the only way to benefit from the skill.  It also has a strict requirement for getting those faith gains via only an altar.  You also have to potentially travel far (huge altars for pvp, or a fellow priest on pve) to priest up.  The skill works different from pretty much all others in the game, quite similar to meditation though.

 

except praying for faith doesn't require moving 10 tiles.  I'd rather see meditating be encouraged to grind, and not continually play off of how it is just a chore

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35 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

Grinding faith has a mandatory wait time between faith gains, a hard cap on how many you can get per day, very long waiting period to get high faith which is also the only way to benefit from the skill.  It also has a strict requirement for getting those faith gains via only an altar.  You also have to potentially travel far (huge altars for pvp, or a fellow priest on pve) to priest up.  The skill works different from pretty much all others in the game, quite similar to meditation though.

 

except praying for faith doesn't require moving 10 tiles.  I'd rather see meditating be encouraged to grind, and not continually play off of how it is just a chore

 

Faith isn't a skill, but yes, it's similar to Meditation skill in a lot of ways. Not sure why it would be relevant, though.

 

 

The way I see it, meditation is a decidedly non-grinding skill, rewarding long-term dedication and continuous commitment, as opposed to being something you can just keep grinding away at, standing in the same spot for eight hours straight. I see the requirement to move between meditation spots as being part of this, and a way to incentivize leaving your house/forge/oven for once.

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17 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

and a way to incentivize leaving your house/forge/oven for once.

 

 

Doing laundry at a laundromat is not an incentive to leave your house. 

It's a requirement if you want clean laundry and do not have your own washer and dryer. 

Quite simply, there's no incentive if it's the only way to achieve the chore is to submit to the circumstance. 

 

Word magic isn't going to make meditation more exciting

If you want an overhaul, push for an overhaul. If the devs don't want to overhaul, what's the harm in removing the silly requirement? 

It's simple Wogic as usual. Changing between two sitting spots shouldn't have any effect on your ability to meditate. Find a good spot and meditate your mind out. 

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4 minutes ago, Trake said:

 

Doing laundry at a laundromat is not an incentive to leave your house. 

It's a requirement if you want clean laundry and do not have your own washer and dryer. 

Quite simply, there's no incentive if it's the only way to achieve the chore is to submit to the circumstance. 

 

Word magic isn't going to make meditation more exciting

If you want an overhaul, push for an overhaul. If the devs don't want to overhaul, what's the harm in removing the silly requirement? 

It's simple Wogic as usual. Changing between two sitting spots shouldn't have any effect on your ability to meditate. Find a good spot and meditate your mind out. 

 

Meditation is not an incentive to leave your house.

It's a requirement if you want the perks of being on a higher path of enlightenment...

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16 minutes ago, zethreal said:

Meditation is not an incentive to leave your house.

It's a requirement if you want the perks of being on a higher path of enlightenment...

 

 

Right.

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1 hour ago, Ostentatio said:

way to incentivize leaving your house/forge/oven for once.

 

There is already a ton of chores that require going to a different location, there is no point in having to walk 10 tiles away from your work area when you are hunkered down on a evening project.

 

Making meditation sound like the only answer for someone to leave there work space is a just a stupid idea when there is already tons of activities that achieve this.

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