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Patch Notes 14/AUG/18

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3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Progression is still there, and if anything it's a little easier because you won't feel at a significant disadvantage until you can afford drake/scale, you'll be able to bide your time and earn your drake or scale without feeling too squishy. 

 

I've played in everything from cloth to scale, I know the major differences not being damage taken, but actually movement speed, nobody wants to be limping around at single digit speeds because they forgot to take off their heavy armour

I have played in everything too. The need for scale/drake is in your mind. As stated above, you could perfectly well run around in studded/chain(cloth was too squishy, that was like wet paper bag). Did that quite a while, even when I had considerably lower body stats than now. Speed? Really? We can now even harvest on horses, does anyone really go hunting without a horse/cart?

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20 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I wont forgive saroman until he implements purple dragons

 

Purple, Purple, Purple! I have been begging for this for 4 years now. Make it So, please!

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As a returning Chaos player that started out on Independence in his early days before going to the (then) Wild server, I am very thankful for this update. My first pvp battle on Chaos (not counting falling at the hands of a spy alt) was in 40ql Plate armor. Being such a fresh account, my stamina drained really fast and I could not tank while being the slowest player in our group (everyone else in dragon armor). Let's just say I dropped like a sack of potatoes in that plate, which was then a necessity for weaker accounts for DR reasons. New players will benefit greatly from lighter, more competitive armor types to choose from. So will older players that don't want to create steel plate / moon metal armor / dragon armor for economic reasons.

 

I'm currently going toe to toe with people in scale/drake while I'm in cloth in 1v1s on Chaos (and the occasional Gank), so I'm really gonna appreciate this slight buff to Cloth, haha.

 

Very Respectfully,

 

DA

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37 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

even if you farmed every rift gathering tiny random lumps of moon metals there is no way you are going to maintain a plate/chain set, these armor's are scarcer than scale or drake any day and I think a kingdom with unlimited hota's it still would not be feasible to maintain plate/chain sets

 

36 minutes ago, Pashka said:

 

This statement does indeed make it seem like cost does have something to do with this change.  The moonmetals are even more expensive and as pointed out require the same to imp which makes them even more expensive still.  So would they be brought down as well in order to bring them more in line with the others when they become more standard?  The items are available at each and every rift from what I understand so they will become more available.

 

29 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

All I can say about this right now is it's something we're aware of. Things tend to develop more quickly these days and I'm sure if they develop into anything of note, Retrograde will announce it. It also feels like quite the rabbit hole.

 

One solution would be to allow MM armor to be imped with steel (I rather like this). Another would be to have MM armor take almost no damage in combat (except shields?).

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54 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

 

 

One solution would be to allow MM armor to be imped with steel (I rather like this). Another would be to have MM armor take almost no damage in combat (except shields?).

 

Or have moon metal veins crop up same as the salt veins, 50 actions and its done. 

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Or increase the drop weight of mm from rifts to 1kg lumps while keeping the ql variance. The maintaining mm armors or any shield/weapon won't be as prohibitive if materials were slightly more viable to obtain. 

 

Any way, I don't see the buffs as a bad thing. Personally for me it was always a looks vs damage resistance trade off.

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If all these things are done to make them so much more plentiful and wonderful, then they will need to be made worse in comparison because well then they will be so plentiful.

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6 minutes ago, Pashka said:

If all these things are done to make them so much more plentiful and wonderful, then they will need to be made worse in comparison because well then they will be so plentiful.

It would depend on how it's implemented. Too much, yes. Then it'd be far too common. There's plenty of ways more mm could be introduced without flooding it though. Increasing it's availability in archeology is one way. Another is increasing weight of the random lumps you get from rifts. But I think instead of that a cool way of increasing availability would be to introduce it as a foragable item. It is after all a moon metal so it makes sense you'd find it on the ground.

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1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Or have moon metal veins crop up same as the salt veins, 50 actions and its done. 

This might be interesting, making it a bit more rare to find than salt veins and perhaps spawning it deeper into mines, like add restriction it will not spawn x tiles from surface, so it can only be found by resoulute miners like the dwarves found mythril digging deep into Moria

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3 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

 

When your boundaries are locked in with deeds all around this is not possible, sometimes its merely a building next door that could prevent this as well.

 

 

If another deed is close enough for you to bump perimeters with them, then there is a good reason to have those reinforcements secured.

 

Great job with armor changes, devs! This is comming from a platesmith! Time to level chain now!

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18 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

If another deed is close enough for you to bump perimeters with them, then there is a good reason to have those reinforcements secured.

 

Great job with armor changes, devs! This is comming from a platesmith! Time to level chain now!

Yep. Now I don't feel sad anymore that I've been grinding chainsmithing before I've turned to platesmithing... after years it is valuable again.

I'll be curious about how the market prices will be changed after the armour rework, I feel I might use some materials that were precious until as forge fuel for optimum economy :P

 

As someone who've already tried the armour changes on Epic I'm sure that this change will bring more variations to weaponry too on Chaos. Now a bunch of formerly quite unusable weapons have a role. I see that weaponsmiths will have a few aching muscles in the coming weeks.

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51 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

If another deed is close enough for you to bump perimeters with them, then there is a good reason to have those reinforcements secured.

 

Fool

 

Without knowing a situation at all you come up with this.

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-1 any change to MM imps, you can collect rifts from multiple servers, or come do hota. 

The reason drake became a must have is because it was easy to imp, it was always rare on Epic cause it required Drake hide to imp, not the case on chaos and that land slided chaos with Drake/Scale.

-1 MM veins as well. Maybe we can just make MM trees and seeds so you can literally farm them from your deeds??? Lol. Pathetic suggestions. 

It takes time to get the armor and should take work to maintain it. I don't know why people need glimmer or ada to fight mobs on Freedom for it even to be maintained, you should be using a full helm and a LT sword, if you die idk what to say. 

Just make it so full mm armor drops from the sky, these people above are something special Lol.

Edited by Mclavin

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These changes are good because it doesn't make everything be one path. You actually have options now instead of choosing to pay 80e/s

It also gives someone a sense of identity too and uniqueness in their choices, instead of it just being dumb to pick an armour that you could be 3 shotted in.

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2 hours ago, Mclavin said:

-1 any change to MM imps, you can collect rifts from multiple servers, or come do hota. 

The reason drake became a must have is because it was easy to imp, it was always rare on Epic cause it required Drake hide to imp, not the case on chaos and that land slided chaos with Drake/Scale.

-1 MM veins as well. Maybe we can just make MM trees and seeds so you can literally farm them from your deeds??? Lol. Pathetic suggestions. 

It takes time to get the armor and should take work to maintain it. I don't know why people need glimmer or ada to fight mobs on Freedom for it even to be maintained, you should be using a full helm and a LT sword, if you die idk what to say. 

Just make it so full mm armor drops from the sky, these people above are something special Lol.

 

All I'm hearing is "muh monopoly!1!"

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3 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Fool

 

Without knowing a situation at all you come up with this.

Do you always insult people who disagree with you? Just because I dont know/care about your personal situation it doesn't mean my point isnt equally valid. 

 

The world doesn't revolve around you, Jake Rivers. Just because a mechanic is inconvenient for you it doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

 

A fool best describes man who thinks his opinion is the only one that matters.

Edited by Angelklaine

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9 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Do you always insult people who disagree with you? Just because I dont know/care about your personal situation it doesn't mean my point isnt equally valid. 

 

The world doesn't revolve around you, Jake Rivers. Just because a mechanic is inconvenient for you it doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

 

A fool best describes man who thinks his opinion is the only one that matters.

 

Your assumption that this is all about gaining access to someone else's perimeter is what makes you the fool.

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14 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Your assumption that this is all about gaining access to someone else's perimeter is what makes you the fool.

Please point where I assumed that. Where did I said you want to access someone else's perimeter?  Oh, thats right, I didnt.

 

Now that you have the time to check and make sure I in fact did not say that, you can proceed to remove your foot from your mouth. Do it gently. Wouldnt want you to sprain something you may need later.

 

Here's why your idea does not appeal to me. Although you may have an inconvenience at this time that may affect your gameplay, having access to removing reinforcements on perimeters means you can very cheaply extend your perimeter to adjacent locations many more times past what would be feasible with a normal deed. This would allow people to extend their perimeters over public mines, passageways, cave dewellings and many public non protected projects very cheaply, even over buildings that have been placed to block deeds to avoid that purpose. 

 

Lets say you extend your perimeter 30 tiles north, over my donut house protecting your deed fron accessing my offdeed mine. In that same moment, you roll over to my mine, dig a hole, make a mine entrance and remove my reinforcement with no effort and maybe 20 minutes of your time.

 

Right now you wouldnt be able to do that because my building/buildings prevent you from extending your deed over my mine. You would need to melt my buildings down, which takes time, allowing me to do something about it (dropping a deed, emptying the mine, sealing the mine further down from you, etc.) With the change you are asking for, you can get into my mine, steal everything I had thought was secure, and making out of there in 20 minutes.

 

This is my point and why I am fully against your suggestion. It has nothing to do with your personal situation, assumptions or ideas. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited by Angelklaine

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15 hours ago, Sindusk said:

While studded and chain have the same base damage reduction now, there's a significant advantage to wearing chain: material. You can make chain and plate out of steel or moon metals to increase the DR further than what's presented here. If we were to keep leather and studded at lower DR values they would never be useful. It's also key to note that a 2.5% difference in DR is not "2.5% less damage taken" - these values need to be compared to eachother. 100 damage versus 62.5% DR is 37.5 damage. When it's 65% DR, it's 35 damage. You divide the two and end up with 37.5 / 35 = 1.07, or a 7% damage increase when going from plate to studded. What Retrograde mentions about the damage effectiveness, combined with glance, is exceptionally important now. Here's one of my spreadsheets (which was available from my datamining spreadsheet before i was a developer) that should demonstrate the difference rather clearly:

 

2jVvxkI.png

 

The "Evaluated" section is the key point here, which demonstrates a full evaluation of each armour against all damage types, including the glance rates and damage effectiveness. It's also important to note that chain and plate are iron in this chart. Steel and moon metal materials will change them to potentially be better defensively than drake or dragonscale, but that's when the movement speed penalty kicks in.

 

At the end of the day, every single armour that wasn't drake or scale got a buff. This means every player that doesn't own a set is going to be better off than before.

 

I'm loving this chart and a little sad cloth is not in the mix

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I'm not really seeing the point of scale on pve anymore.  You're probably better off with studded and almost definitely better off with drake. The only really dangerous things on pve you'd meet regularly are trolls, and the gap between hide and scale is almost criminal. You take only 57% of the damage that a scale user would. In other words, crush damage that would have killed a scale user would leave a hide user at ~40% health. That's a big gap.

 

Trolls also bite, but hide slightly edges out scale there, too.

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8 minutes ago, Hailene said:

I'm not really seeing the point of scale on pve anymore.  You're probably better off with studded and almost definitely better off with drake.

There never was a point for scale on pve lol, you could already kill a champ troll in studded if you had 70 wep and shield skills. Fashion statement.

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Scale and drake are overkill but they still look better than any of the other armors and I'm pretty sure looks matter with all the rare/supreme/fantastic shinies everyone sells and collects.

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1 hour ago, Hailene said:

I'm not really seeing the point of scale on pve anymore.  You're probably better off with studded and almost definitely better off with drake. The only really dangerous things on pve you'd meet regularly are trolls, and the gap between hide and scale is almost criminal. You take only 57% of the damage that a scale user would. In other words, crush damage that would have killed a scale user would leave a hide user at ~40% health. That's a big gap.

 

Trolls also bite, but hide slightly edges out scale there, too.

 

The devil is in the extreme details.

 

RSKQzk3.png

 

While you're not getting hit as often with studded due to high glance rates, you're actually taking the equivalent of wearing plate when you do get hit. When you're damaged in drake, you're actually taking 82.3% of the damage you would from studded. This concept applies across the board for dragonscale with the exception of crushing.

 

It's really great that people are spending time thinking about the new possibilities, and I can't imagine it's going to be well understood overnight. The armour system is a complex beast that I've spent countless hours analyzing. All of the numbers that you see here are also assuming identical quality at 100QL. This is unrealistic, and taking into consideration the resources and skills required to improve certain items (moon metal especially), it's not quite as cut and dry as it's made out to be. It'll be a while before the meta truly settles down and people figure out the optimal strategies again. When that happens, we can make further tweaks to spice things up and solve any issues that arise.

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