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Patch Notes 14/AUG/18

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13 minutes ago, Keenan said:

There's implications to consider, such as people griefing

 

You have support tickets to deal with griefers.

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1 minute ago, JakeRivers said:

 

When your boundaries are locked in with deeds all around this is not possible, sometimes its merely a building next door that could prevent this as well.

 

 

 

That's pretty much intentional though. Buildings preventing expansion, and not being able to push your neighbors by expanding your deed. The point is that perimeter is still basically open-world permissions. To change that would need some serious discussion about how we want to proceed.

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Just now, JakeRivers said:

 

You have support tickets to deal with griefers.

 

At this point, split it off into a suggestions post or bump a previous suggestion for it for discussion. I'd rather not derail this thread any more.

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15 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Ehh... I've been roving around in plate for a very long time. I've been looking for drake or scale, but I still twitch at the idea of paying real money for things in Wurm. I've been on board for these changes for some time, but it's more been no one has really been able to take the time to make them AND test them.

 

I'm all for this simply because it brings more options to both players and crafters. Material types have a bit more say, so as Sindusk pointed out - it's not completely making one path or the other useless. It just means if you simply don't want to be one-shotted, you have more choices.

 

The only crafter to have raised an issue so far has ignored the points made by Sindusk and instead decided to "sod it".

I used studded armor from 2012 to 2016 and it was enough for everything (including champ trolls etc), so I speak from my experience.. drake and scale are NOT a necessity. They are nice to have, they still are, I bet people will still run around in drake and scale even after the change.

Also this material type difference is completely irrelevant. To make a decision, what armor to use, you would have to make before going on hunt(or you carry around several sets of armor which you then change during your travel, as I pointed out in my last post for Sindusk), but even if you decide to equip yourself against one damage type, you will still meet different critters which do different damage.

 

My point is.. whatever your reason was for doing that change, don't pretend it is for "fixing" PvE, you can't fix what isn't broken.. PvE side was fine even before that change. You simply created a problem in your mind, which you charged heroically to "fix".

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4 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

That's pretty much intentional though. Buildings preventing expansion, and not being able to push your neighbors by expanding your deed. The point is that perimeter is still basically open-world permissions. To change that would need some serious discussion about how we want to proceed.

 

This is an ideal time to bring up the nerf implemented for no reason 2 years ago.

 

As you guys are responding to questions here, which is rare in itself.

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I do not understand the reason behind not allowing me to sacrifice animals when there is no mission for them.  They currently allow me to gain a small amount of favor when doing this.  Can someone explain why this change was needed?

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2 minutes ago, rixk said:

I used studded armor from 2012 to 2016 and it was enough for everything (including champ trolls etc), so I speak from my experience.. drake and scale are NOT a necessity. They are nice to have, they still are, I bet people will still run around in drake and scale even after the change.

Also this material type difference is completely irrelevant. To make a decision, what armor to use, you would have to make before going on hunt(or you carry around several sets of armor which you then change during your travel, as I pointed out in my last post for Sindusk), but even if you decide to equip yourself against one damage type, you will still meet different critters which do different damage.

 

My point is.. whatever your reason was for doing that change, don't pretend it is for "fixing" PvE, you can't fix what isn't broken.. PvE side was fine even before that change. You simply created a problem in your mind, which you charged heroically to "fix".

It's more pointing out that nothing is lost in this system, lower leveled armours are more survivable which is good, but metal armours still have significant advantage over them. 

 

It's not anything fixed, it's that nothing is lost,. this won't make any armour worse than it was before 

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To the armor points that noone is bringing up, different metals are better/worse and if I recall correctly, this will make moonmetal armors better than say drake or scale.  Is this the case now?

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Just now, Pashka said:

I do not understand the reason behind not allowing me to sacrifice animals when there is no mission for them.  They currently allow me to gain a small amount of favor when doing this.  Can someone explain why this change was needed?

Because the sacrificing mechanic was reworked with the 1.6 update, and the sacrificing for favour system didnt get the new fixes, there were a few exploits that came about from this (such as being able to sacrifice enemy kingdom tower guards) and we wanted to address those before they got out of hand. It may return in the priest rework currently in development/testing with those exploits addressed. 

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1 minute ago, Pashka said:

I do not understand the reason behind not allowing me to sacrifice animals when there is no mission for them.  They currently allow me to gain a small amount of favor when doing this.  Can someone explain why this change was needed?

 

Sounds like someone found away to abuse a system.

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3 minutes ago, Pashka said:

To the armor points that noone is bringing up, different metals are better/worse and if I recall correctly, this will make moonmetal armors better than say drake or scale.  Is this the case now?

Moon metal armours get closer to drake/scale, and depending on the damage type can provide slightly higher DR, but this is offset by the maintenance costs as well, with drake/scale being minimal while MM armour requires more MM

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It was never alot of favor and I don't think anyone considered it abuse.  If so, then I should be punished because I have used it in the past over and over.  It was reported all along that it allowed us to do this and even that the amount changed with the age of the animal.  Probly was in the wiki somewhere if not removed.

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Because the sacrificing mechanic was reworked with the 1.6 update, and the sacrificing for favour system didnt get the new fixes, there were a few exploits that came about from this (such as being able to sacrifice enemy kingdom tower guards) and we wanted to address those before they got out of hand. It may return in the priest rework currently in development/testing with those exploits addressed. 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation

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11 minutes ago, rixk said:

I used studded armor from 2012 to 2016 and it was enough for everything (including champ trolls etc), so I speak from my experience.. drake and scale are NOT a necessity. They are nice to have, they still are, I bet people will still run around in drake and scale even after the change.

Also this material type difference is completely irrelevant. To make a decision, what armor to use, you would have to make before going on hunt(or you carry around several sets of armor which you then change during your travel, as I pointed out in my last post for Sindusk), but even if you decide to equip yourself against one damage type, you will still meet different critters which do different damage.

 

My point is.. whatever your reason was for doing that change, don't pretend it is for "fixing" PvE, you can't fix what isn't broken.. PvE side was fine even before that change. You simply created a problem in your mind, which you charged heroically to "fix".

 

Geez. You're making me feel like a squishy noob.

 

I should point out that body stats matter for some of this. If you're not hauling a cart around, those extra armor sets will put your carry weight over the point where your CR takes a hit (as well as your movement speed). I suppose saddlebags help that now (I've not actually made any yet!). 

 

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3 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

Why would anyone play on epic now?

 

I play, but I'am just stubborn and waiting in hope for better times.

 

As long as Chaos is connected to freedom, it always get first before Epic. Just because freedom players are main playerbase and it's normal that developers gonna care for them first.

Edited by Wilczan
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Yay loads of nice changes
 

4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

It's more pointing out that nothing is lost in this system, lower leveled armours are more survivable which is good, but metal armours still have significant advantage over them. 

 

It's not anything fixed, it's that nothing is lost,. this won't make any armour worse than it was before 

And just to say retro that last line it depends on how you look at it 1 type of person will say "oh nice this armor is buffed its better now" the other will say "oh that armor is buffed now mine is less good because the gap is smaller" its a common argument in a lot of games when cheap simple to get armor gets a buff compared to more rare and harder to get armor

Its common for people to see it from a different standpoint
In this case a lot of people seem to be off the opinion that because base dr has gone up on studded(an easy to make armor) the value of drake(hard to get) has gone down and thus become less useful for general fighting now in pvp when facing people you want to have everything as good as you can have it because min maxing is a necessary evil but in pve where studded+body stats+70fs is all you need to kill anything really it all comes down to "how can i take less overall damage from every mob"

And in the case of pve when you can run into a wolf 1 moment 20 seconds later a troll then a hell scorp the average person would rather go for the best armor they can afford over "oh is my glance rate going to be higher" so they go for drake as its the cheapest of the expensive armors and more common offering the best stats all around without making you a snail and in that case of pve overall damage reduction matters most above all for most people

And thus when cheaper armors get buffed to be closer to the rare to get armors it will be seen by most people as a nerf to drake and the others because they suddenly lost value as no one who purely plays pve wants to play spreadsheet online just to go out hunting and they just want peace of mind that their armor is the best they can afford and makes them survive well against 90% of all mobs

To me though im glad to see the buff as go to a unique fight and 90% of the players are in drake you go out hunting and anyone who has played for more then a year or 2 is in drake you just dont see chain or studded most of the time and that made me sad so i hope that with that chance it will become more common now that the damage reduction has been improved but again i can see why people will call it a nerf or a screw up or anything as it will always be the case due to their view point being "its gone down in value due to this other item being buffed" mentality so many of us have(wow and d3 and other mmo's have 30+ page long posts every time such a thing happens.

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drake and scale, as you can see, still have significant advantages, and I do agree with your point being a buff in other armours can feel like a nerf in high tier armours, but maintaining a status quo, or concerns of a market cannot be a deciding factor in whether things are balanced or improved, that forces a bad situation to stay bad because it benefits others. We know that some may feel their drake/scale has lost value because it doesn't have a significant edge compared to lesser armours, but they have bonuses such as movement speed, and definitely look way cooler. 

 

These armour values can be tweaked, part of the delay in this coming out was allowing for some back end work done by sindusk to make adjusting if necessary much less tricky, but our goal here is pretty simple, to make simpler armours more viable

 

this also makes moonmetal armours more viable as well, which hopefully leads to moonmetal chain being more common in PvE, though I'm deeply disappointed the metal update changed glimmer from black to yellow, I wont forgive saroman until he implements purple dragons

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20 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

It's more pointing out that nothing is lost in this system, lower leveled armours are more survivable which is good, but metal armours still have significant advantage over them. 

 

 It's not anything fixed, it's that nothing is lost,. this won't make any armour worse than it was before 

It removes diversity. Sense of progression: start low and advance to better armor. Other than that, yes.. doesn't affect any established players.

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1 hour ago, manthium said:

Sod it I dont pay to have to sit here trying to work raising concerns if it makes them useless I'll just leave the game with all my alts and deed and you can continue doing nothing to draw people in

 

So my original "Okay" was to poke you to elaborate more, while also expressing my annoyance at another person attempting to blackmail us by threatening to leave. We get that a lot, but we have to look out for everyone and not just a single person and how many alts or deeds they have. I'd rather 10 people bring a friend because it's a little more enjoyable to run around and smash trolls now than one person keep 10 alts.

 

Review what Sindusk said and see if you still have concerns that we're hurting the craft side of things here. And I'm sorry for simply replying with "Okay". You just have to understand how infuriating it is to have a single person attempt to sway what we do for thousands by threatening to rip their alt income from the game. Honestly, if it came to the point where we ever were in danger of not being able to support Wurm, I'd probably offer to go halvsies on it just to keep the game up. So threatening to leave like that won't ever change our minds. Yet making a valid, well-thought point will.

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6 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

moonmetal armours more viable as well

 

even if you farmed every rift gathering tiny random lumps of moon metals there is no way you are going to maintain a plate/chain set, these armor's are scarcer than scale or drake any day and I think a kingdom with unlimited hota's it still would not be feasible to maintain plate/chain sets

Edited by JakeRivers

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4 minutes ago, rixk said:

It removes diversity. Sense of progression: start low and advance to better armor. Other than that, yes.. doesn't affect any established players.

Progression is still there, and if anything it's a little easier because you won't feel at a significant disadvantage until you can afford drake/scale, you'll be able to bide your time and earn your drake or scale without feeling too squishy. 

 

I've played in everything from cloth to scale, I know the major differences not being damage taken, but actually movement speed, nobody wants to be limping around at single digit speeds because they forgot to take off their heavy armour

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

drake and scale, as you can see, still have significant advantages, and I do agree with your point being a buff in other armours can feel like a nerf in high tier armours, but maintaining a status quo, or concerns of a market cannot be a deciding factor in whether things are balanced or improved, that forces a bad situation to stay bad because it benefits others. We know that some may feel their drake/scale has lost value because it doesn't have a significant edge compared to lesser armours, but they have bonuses such as movement speed, and definitely look way cooler. 

 

These armour values can be tweaked, part of the delay in this coming out was allowing for some back end work done by sindusk to make adjusting if necessary much less tricky, but our goal here is pretty simple, to make simpler armours more viable

 

this also makes moonmetal armours more viable as well, which hopefully leads to moonmetal chain being more common in PvE, though I'm deeply disappointed the metal update changed glimmer from black to yellow, I wont forgive saroman until he implements purple dragons

I want purple dragons and rainbow unicorns @Saroman come on man give us the shinies

To me i see it as a good change it means people who are more casual or new might not have to run from a troll or a spider thats why im for this and i am still going to aim to own a drake set and some day a seryll plate set because they just look amazing and keep up the good work

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52 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Ehh... I've been roving around in plate for a very long time. I've been looking for drake or scale, but I still twitch at the idea of paying real money for things in Wurm. I've been on board for these changes for some time, but it's more been no one has really been able to take the time to make them AND test them.

 

I'm all for this simply because it brings more options to both players and crafters. Material types have a bit more say, so as Sindusk pointed out - it's not completely making one path or the other useless. It just means if you simply don't want to be one-shotted, you have more choices.

 

The only crafter to have raised an issue so far has ignored the points made by Sindusk and instead decided to "sod it".

 

This statement does indeed make it seem like cost does have something to do with this change.  The moonmetals are even more expensive and as pointed out require the same to imp which makes them even more expensive still.  So would they be brought down as well in order to bring them more in line with the others when they become more standard?  The items are available at each and every rift from what I understand so they will become more available.

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6 minutes ago, Pashka said:

 

This statement does indeed make it seem like cost does have something to do with this change.  The moonmetals are even more expensive and as pointed out require the same to imp which makes them even more expensive still.  So would they be brought down as well in order to bring them more in line with the others when they become more standard?  The items are available at each and every rift from what I understand so they will become more available.

 

All I can say about this right now is it's something we're aware of. Things tend to develop more quickly these days and I'm sure if they develop into anything of note, Retrograde will announce it. It also feels like quite the rabbit hole.

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