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5 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Code's done. ETA next patch.

 

Nice work!

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I do agree that it would be a great loss to die and lose top end skills. Since this update will lessen the value of the Path of Knowledge, will there be any compensation for the people who took the time to skill up PoK?   Perhaps a free Refresh for PoK folks? 

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I don't think this has a huge effect on path of knowledge considering a vast majority of people on pok probably are not loaded with 99+ skills

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15 minutes ago, Gumbo said:

I do agree that it would be a great loss to die and lose top end skills. Since this update will lessen the value of the Path of Knowledge, will there be any compensation for the people who took the time to skill up PoK?   Perhaps a free Refresh for PoK folks? 

It was said that you'd take a double loss tick on a different skill if it landed on a 99+ skill so that's still reason enough to keep it. .5 on a 90+ skill is still gonna hurt

 

ʀᴇᴛʀᴏɢʀᴀᴅᴇYesterday at 3:39 PM

 
If any skill is protected, another skill will take a double hit
Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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Plus, most people on PoK are on it for the skill gain with the death protection being an extra bonus.

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35 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

It was said that you'd take a double loss tick on a different skill if it landed on a 99+ skill so that's still reason enough to keep it. .5 on a 90+ skill is still gonna hurt

 

ʀᴇᴛʀᴏɢʀᴀᴅᴇYesterday at 3:39 PM

 
If any skill is protected, another skill will take a double hit

 

That seems kinda silly when if anything it should just pick a different skill??

in the event that someone has 99 in every single skill they can enjoy no skill loss and take the time to reevaluate their life choices

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3 hours ago, MrGARY said:

I don't think this has a huge effect on path of knowledge considering a vast majority of people on pok probably are not loaded with 99+ skills

 

None the less, this update lessens the effect of PoK.  Nothing is preventing anyone with 99+ skill from taking up the PoK to prevent skill loss.  That is the main reason I chose that path.  If not.. .then I want a free PoInsanity Teleport because I hate being stuck out in the middle of nowhere and having to walk home if my horse dies.   Also, please give out to everyone Elemental Immunity because no-one wants to die from Lava or Drowning and lose skills.  Etc, etc.

 

3 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

It was said that you'd take a double loss tick on a different skill if it landed on a 99+ skill so that's still reason enough to keep it. .5 on a 90+ skill is still gonna hurt

 

ʀᴇᴛʀᴏɢʀᴀᴅᴇYesterday at 3:39 PM

 
If any skill is protected, another skill will take a double hit

 

Yup,  well that's why there is PoK, to prevent exactly that from happening.  I know it sucks to lose high end skills, but folks who chose not to take the path to prevent it, did so out of their own free will.  For the game to now turn around and reward the people who didn't choose to protect themselves, it's a slap to the face to those who did.

 

3 hours ago, thorgot said:

Plus, most people on PoK are on it for the skill gain with the death protection being an extra bonus.

 

I don't speak for "most people", only myself.  That doesn't change the fact that they are now about to lessen the value of PoK, without any word of some kind of compensation to those who chose PoK.

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That comment was an attempt at triggering noiz, we cant have him thinking we did something good!

 

Path of knowledge level 7 means ALL Skills are protected, which is a huge advantage over only 99+ skills.

 

While there may be a SLIGHT loss of "have PoK to keep your 99+ skills from dying" there's still every other skill, not to mention the 25% skillgain bonus. 

 

This is rewarding players who put in the time, effort and insanity to grind any skill to 99, where the .25 loss can actually mean dropping a third to more than half their progress through dying, PoK still has huge advantages over not having it, and will continue to do so (anyone grinding to 99+ without a 25% skillgain bonus is a nut too) 

 

Also, with the planned meditation rework there will be the option to change paths without penalty, it will be coming in a while with no firm ETA, but if you find yourself unhappy with the PoK change you can always change it then. 

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3 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

It was said that you'd take a double loss tick on a different skill if it landed on a 99+ skill so that's still reason enough to keep it. .5 on a 90+ skill is still gonna hurt

 

ʀᴇᴛʀᴏɢʀᴀᴅᴇYesterday at 3:39 PM

 
If any skill is protected, another skill will take a double hit

 

3 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

That seems kinda silly when if anything it should just pick a different skill??

in the event that someone has 99 in every single skill they can enjoy no skill loss and take the time to reevaluate their life choices

It appears my prank fooled more people, bazinga! 

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10 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Also, with the planned meditation rework there will be the option to change paths without penalty, it will be coming in a while with no firm ETA, but if you find yourself unhappy with the PoK change you can always change it then. 

 

You realize you could have simply replied this to the OP instead.  If OP or anyone is unhappy with their Path, they could change to PoK to protect their skills, when this change comes about.  Still, this doesn't address the fact that you are not compensating the PoK people for lessening the value of the Path they chose.  You're just giving us the middle finger.

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I don't think this will cheapen pok anymore than the sotg change.

 

But you can look at it another way, once you get all your skills to 99+ you no longer need pok, and can get something else.

Edited by JakeRivers
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I think this change is a good incentive to grind skills all the way up to 99.

If we didnt like grinding, we wouldnt be here in this mental asylum called Wurm.

 

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12 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Path of knowledge level 7 means ALL Skills are protected, which is a huge advantage over only 99+ skills.

 

 

*non-combat skills, according to my little icon in game.

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15 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Also, with the planned meditation rework there will be the option to change paths without penalty, it will be coming in a while with no firm ETA, but if you find yourself unhappy with the PoK change you can always change it then. 

 

Glad I changed my meditation path this month, (>_<)sigh.  If  I only knew this was coming. Although i was only lvl 9 PoL. May still work out. Waits, and watches for a ETA to be released  (°_°)

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9 hours ago, Xalorum said:

*non-combat skills, according to my little icon in game.

 

This only excludes fighting skill, as that could create an abusive skilling method by killing others in PvP.

 

That fighting skill is also ignored by this new mechanic. 99 fighting will not be saved under any circumstance, PoK or otherwise.

 

As for PoK, it prevents you from losing body stats on death. That's the major perk which this change does not cover. You can still lose 99+ body strength (even if someone had that much).

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A tiny compensation would be nice. Maybe make affinity food buffs last 5% longer? Not more powerful but longer?

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1 hour ago, Sindusk said:

 

This only excludes fighting skill, as that could create an abusive skilling method by killing others in PvP.

 

That fighting skill is also ignored by this new mechanic. 99 fighting will not be saved under any circumstance, PoK or otherwise.

 

As for PoK, it prevents you from losing body stats on death. That's the major perk which this change does not cover. You can still lose 99+ body strength (even if someone had that much).

 

No matter how you try to frame it, the PoK folks don't get as much as non-PoK people.  You're attempting to justify this to people you're giving the shaft to. You want to make it fair for every premium player, then only implement the "major perk" that saves folks from losing their Body stats, then tell everyone else if they want to protect their skills, change to PoK.  Once again Wurm makes a move to chase away more players who feel screwed over yet again.  If you haven't noticed in the last year, the premium player numbers are down 800, a whopping 25% drop.  Now,  I'm all for updates and new content etc,  but when you implement things that aren't equal for everyone, you create a negative atmosphere. Wurm has been bleeding 2.2 premium players every day, for a year.  Perhaps it's time to stop screwing over your core player base, by belittling the accomplishments they worked years to get.  Unless of course your business model is to lose 25% of your customers annually.

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I don't understand why you are making a big deal about this. Not everyone is even going to get to 99 skill. It already take 5-6 months or longer just to get to it. PoK is still going to be useful. You think people who went PoK thought "Hey, I'm going to get 100 in all skills. Better not lose any skills when I die"? The change they made still won't change anything other than 99+ skill protection. That's it. I'm still going to go PoK even with this change. 

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8 minutes ago, Gumbo said:

No matter how you try to frame it, the PoK folks don't get as much as non-PoK people.  You're attempting to justify this to people you're giving the shaft to. You want to make it fair for every premium player, then only implement the "major perk" that saves folks from losing their Body stats, then tell everyone else if they want to protect their skills, change to PoK.  Once again Wurm makes a move to chase away more players who feel screwed over yet again.  If you haven't noticed in the last year, the premium player numbers are down 800, a whopping 25% drop.  Now,  I'm all for updates and new content etc,  but when you implement things that aren't equal for everyone, you create a negative atmosphere. Wurm has been bleeding 2.2 premium players every day, for a year.  Perhaps it's time to stop screwing over your core player base, by belittling the accomplishments they worked years to get.  Unless of course your business model is to lose 25% of your customers annually.

 

I understand now that a few lines isn't going to cut it. So let me get into the details here.

 

Meditation In General

 

Meditation as a whole has been one of those gigantic issues that plagues the game from every direction. Many of the changes made to the game affect some path in some way.

  • Make stamina regeneration faster or give players a higher pool? Path of Power players are affected.
  • Make it easier to feed animals or heal wounds? Path of Love players are affected.
  • Change literally anything involving combat, DR, or similar? Path of Hate & Insanity are affected.

It's actually hard to think of changes to mechanics that don't affect a path in some way. Now, I realize that this is well known, and the problem here is that it impacts the most useful part of Path of Knowledge. This is just a fact. I'm not denying it. As you said, I'm justifying it. It's clear that my justification so far was not enough, so I'll try again.

 

My goal with development is simply to make the game better. Just pure, raw upgrades on existing mechanics. I'm not trying to "give the shaft" to any player base in specific. The goal here is to add QoL and make the game more enjoyable for the vast majority. Sometimes, these changes come with negative implications, such as this impact to Path of Knowledge players. It's just part of the gig. When you want to improve everyone's game, then others get affected negatively. If we added new armour above drake and scale, everyone who owned a set would have reason to be upset. If we implement upgraded versions of tools like a pickaxe, everyone who had bought a rare+ or highly enchanted pickaxe would have a reason to be upset.

 

New content comes at a cost to the existing content. No new content leads to a drought which will chase more players away than what you're suggesting.

 

Providing A Counterbalance

 

So onto the point about providing a counterbalance to Path of Knowledge in return for this change. There's some merit there, and I wont deny that it'd be nice to see Path of Knowledge improved. However, the simple truth is that it's already planned.

23 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Also, with the planned meditation rework there will be the option to change paths without penalty, it will be coming in a while with no firm ETA, but if you find yourself unhappy with the PoK change you can always change it then. 

 

There's a meditation rework scheduled. It's not just going to be a couple number changes and a path switch like the SotG changes a while ago. It'll be tackling the issues that meditation currently has and fixing the design to be more versatile. If you don't like how Path of Knowledge looks after the rework, by all means switch at that point.

 

The Can Of Worms

 

To make a bandaid adjustment to Path of Knowledge in light of this very QoL change (which affects a very small portion of the community) opens up a can of worms. At the start of this post, I mention that it's hard to make a change without affecting some meditation path in some way. We adjust the Body Stamina calculations and we'll get demands to compensate Path of Power. We change combat so certain things apply in different order, we'll get demands for Path of Hate & Insanity to obtain compensation.

 

In conclusion, Path of Knowledge is not being adjusted because of this change.

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Path of Knowledge is still the best way for folks to protect their 90+ skills, in fact nearly all of their skills at any level.

 

If we are lucky enough to have 99+ skills then we will soon have an additional protection. Call it 'belt and braces'.

 

I don't see any negatives here.  I would still choose Path of Knowledge to protect my 90's.

 

The new protection for 99+ skills will just buy the highest level players some extra time and peace of mind while they grind their meditation to 50 and/or change over to PoK.

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36 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

 

I understand now that a few lines isn't going to cut it. So let me get into the details here.

 

Meditation In General

 

Meditation as a whole has been one of those gigantic issues that plagues the game from every direction. Many of the changes made to the game affect some path in some way.

  • Make stamina regeneration faster or give players a higher pool? Path of Power players are affected.
  • Make it easier to feed animals or heal wounds? Path of Love players are affected.
  • Change literally anything involving combat, DR, or similar? Path of Hate & Insanity are affected.

It's actually hard to think of changes to mechanics that don't affect a path in some way. Now, I realize that this is well known, and the problem here is that it impacts the most useful part of Path of Knowledge. This is just a fact. I'm not denying it. As you said, I'm justifying it. It's clear that my justification so far was not enough, so I'll try again.

 

My goal with development is simply to make the game better. Just pure, raw upgrades on existing mechanics. I'm not trying to "give the shaft" to any player base in specific. The goal here is to add QoL and make the game more enjoyable for the vast majority. Sometimes, these changes come with negative implications, such as this impact to Path of Knowledge players. It's just part of the gig. When you want to improve everyone's game, then others get affected negatively. If we added new armour above drake and scale, everyone who owned a set would have reason to be upset. If we implement upgraded versions of tools like a pickaxe, everyone who had bought a rare+ or highly enchanted pickaxe would have a reason to be upset.

 

New content comes at a cost to the existing content. No new content leads to a drought which will chase more players away than what you're suggesting.

 

Providing A Counterbalance

 

So onto the point about providing a counterbalance to Path of Knowledge in return for this change. There's some merit there, and I wont deny that it'd be nice to see Path of Knowledge improved. However, the simple truth is that it's already planned.

 

There's a meditation rework scheduled. It's not just going to be a couple number changes and a path switch like the SotG changes a while ago. It'll be tackling the issues that meditation currently has and fixing the design to be more versatile. If you don't like how Path of Knowledge looks after the rework, by all means switch at that point.

 

The Can Of Worms

 

To make a bandaid adjustment to Path of Knowledge in light of this very QoL change (which affects a very small portion of the community) opens up a can of worms. At the start of this post, I mention that it's hard to make a change without affecting some meditation path in some way. We adjust the Body Stamina calculations and we'll get demands to compensate Path of Power. We change combat so certain things apply in different order, we'll get demands for Path of Hate & Insanity to obtain compensation.

 

In conclusion, Path of Knowledge is not being adjusted because of this change.

Thanks for this well thought post. Much was answered.

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Honestly I’m amazed that so many people took pok for the skill cementing. I’m solely in it for the 25% skill gain and these changes don’t bother me at all.

I understand the frustration of others, I’m just surprised how many people took this path for reasons other than mine.

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This is the first time I hear someone really caring for the skill loss part. Everyone always rushes for the 25%. Thats one free tic every 4...

 

To be honest I am sick about people going "don't make that change because it wasnt there when I went through it!" Those are the same people who complain when the game stagnates because no new content is released.

 

You know why we havent gotten any new armor in about a decade? Because it will make other armor less valuable. People's wallets.

 

Finally we have devs who care and are not afraid to fight the change-avert dinosaurs.

 

Good job @Retrograde@Sindusk. Thanks for making our game better.

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33 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

To be honest I am sick about people going "don't make that change because it wasnt there when I went through it!" Those are the same people who complain when the game stagnates because no new content is released.

 

I'm not sure who you may be referring to here, but just in case it's me, I will requote myself because maybe you missed it and I wouldn't want people to get the wrong impression about me due to your lack of reading comprehension.  If it's someone else you're referring to, then pls ignore.

 

"Now,  I'm all for updates and new content etc,  but when you implement things that aren't equal for everyone, you create a negative atmosphere."

 

 

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