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Prophetears

The State of Raiding

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The way raiding enemy deeds currently work is the most difficult it has ever been, and it is the least rewarding it has ever been. It's also easier than ever to repair them, and build them. Defenders get pretty much every single advantage in the book, and are only limited by RL income, the only one attackers get is time, and population, and depending on circumstances maybe not even those.

 

I'm going to list off the bonuses defenders get.

 

Homefield Advantage

(You have hops as in houses, minedoors, gates and resources to spare to get them.)

CR Buff in relation to how many attackers are on your deed

Templars get stronger and start spawning faster the longer an attacker is on your deed.

Minedoors are twice as hard to bash when they are on a deed

You can repair and bash from inside of caves.

Enemies have to manually bash all second story or more of cave dwellings (i'm not going to publicly detail how you can properly abuse this, but you can ponder about that for now.)

You can respawn at your deed instantly. (When used in conjunction with alts...)

You get the benefits of deed ownership, such as expansion over enemy owned minedoors/offdeed platforms after they are off-deed for five minutes.

Merchants for safe storage of anything you don't want to lose, negating reward. (For those who don't know, an enemy can't see whats on a merchant or has any way to access it. Can't even buy it.)

You can replace certain things like minedoors that take hours to bash in 10 seconds, negating sometimes a day or two of progress in a few minutes when someone notices.

Your building's cant be removed if they have anything planned. (Plain stone wall plan has no model, 1 mortar, 1 brick, 2.8 seconds to construct, very easy to spam this to prevent an enemy from demolishing your building, preventing them from accessing your dirtwall. Picture this in conjunction with 8 story buildings that just have random plans everywhere that the attacker has to find)

Mine Malleability (You can add/remove reinforcements at your leisure under siege, and minedoors ofc.)

More defenders can teleport in with resources and well, just more defenders.

With modern design, usually permanent height advantage.

You can refound a deed to stop rolling drains.

 

 

This is just a few, we can keep going with this.

 

Attackers get the ability to deal splash damage, at most in a 2x3 with a catapult and a trebuchet, usually numbers. The splash damage from war machines is significant, but the most important part of a deed these days is a mine. Your siege machines have no impact on whats impeding your progression without the ability to also remove the mines impeding your progression. The building prevents you from terraforming the dirtwall. The dirtwall prevents you from climbing in. The mine prevents you from terraforming the dirtwall if you see where im going with this? People layer this too, sometimes three or four times a deed.

 

I wrote a bunch here, but, i just cut it out and went with the below instead as I think it will get my point across more.

 

Lets make a hypothetical situation where you're raiding one of our deeds from its weakest side.

 

You have to completely remove three longhouses.

You have to bash 18 80ql metal minedoors

You have to gain entry to the tokenhouse

 

This is just for the drain, so lets put some numbers in here and pretend that NOBODY is defending this deed.

 

You need to remove at a minimum, 160 walls give or take 1 or 2 for the odd shape. 160 walls is 5 shots per 3, so thats 266 shots ignoring any misses (and you will, as i miss a fair bit with 100.0 treb.), counterweights, and we are pretending nobody is defending. For those who don't know, one shot is four ore so thats 1,064 ore. You need to remove these walls in order to modify the dirt to gain access to the token. This is also assuming there is only one story on the building and you know the exact angle/counterweight per shot.

 

an 80ql metal minedoor takes roughly 3 hours to bash with 23 people last we timed it, if its not being imped while you're bashing it, guards aren't interrupting you, and nor are players interrupting you. So thats 54 hours of bashing with a 23 man raidforce (this is assuming you had to do that. Usually, after the first couple fall, defenders give up and you can just climb around freely. But lets just say you're doing it properly, so 54 hours in order to allow you to make a ramp.) Even when MRC was around, we would ignore the mines on undefended deeds that we knew nobody would ever come at, and just deed over them later to gain access to the doors, which is ridiculous.

 

I am too lazy to do the math on this, but, our deed is entirely rock for the most part, so you'd need to source all the dirt yourself to scale across 380 slope, then up 900 slope, then down 1200 slope. (or bash even more minedoors to let you grief our rock layer, which would take much longer than this.)

 

And then you need to either manually bash or line up a difficult trebuchet shot to gain entrance to the token., which is pretty simple overall.

 

And thats just for the drain, but, heres the best part, once you get here, you're greeted with this.

 

uCaysHY.jpg

 

So you know now, the only thing you're going to get is bulk mats, and usually not enough to reward you for your effort. As an added bonus, the deed itself rewards the 30 hours you and your boys spent with a SINGLE SILVER COIN for a larger deed, so that way you can walk away gleefully knowing you're a moron for spending that much time for such a reward. If you want to disband the deed, you need to get the drain usually 10-15 or more times if its something people care about. If you want to check other mines for loot, you have a 2% chance to disintegrate for an hour only after a drain, or you need to spend 3 hours per minedoor that could have a reinforced wall behind it so you need to disintegrate it anyway.

 

Now try doing all of this, with people who can repair walls, build once per tile to stop you from removing an entire house, hopping in/out to prevent you from bashing, templars spawning that prevent you from bashing,  the pvp part, repairing walls from inside of minedoors where you can't interrupt them, imping minedoors to undo an hours worth of damage in a single action, walling off/flattening the ramps your building behind you via adjacent mines. Shooting the horses/bison off your wagons with 10k bt bows.

 

How anyone thinks this is fair is beyond me, really, it is. Sure its meant to be difficult, but nobody can stay that long for a single event that can be undone in 1/4th the time. The worst part of it all is, the game has gotten to a point where this is so encouraged its the meta. The current meta promotes building deeds like this, which promote unnecessary destruction which is discouraging to the defenders, and way more time consuming than necessary to the attackers.

 

At this point, I really just don't understand the direction of the game in this department. I would be very surprised to see any high profile raids conducted again until a lot of this stuff is changed, and I expect nothing to change as a result of this post, only posts from those who have never experienced the difficulty firsthand saying "It should be difficult!" and leaving it at that, so I will not be replying to this thread outside of posts asking for clarification. I just hope mechanics like this are looked into, sooner rather than later. Thank you.

 

 

Added note: (Which is also useless, because, these only help with the building aspect of raids and not the majority of the ordeal, but still.)

 

The battering ram is useless in its current state. It is more effective to simply handbash a wall, both in a mine and on the surface than to use it, even with 90+ war machines (which is now near impossible to raise to that level.) Ballistae are completely useless.

 

Edited by Prophetears
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 (i'm not going to publicly detail how you can properly abuse this, but you can ponder about that for now.)

 

should u not report this  

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1 minute ago, icenrns said:

 (i'm not going to publicly detail how you can properly abuse this, but you can ponder about that for now.)

 

should u not report this  

 

It's not a bug by any means, i've already confirmed via developer. It's just something that takes along time to deal with and i'd rather not see people abusing it.

Edited by Prophetears

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I think you have to bash 2 minedoors and 1 longhouse(in most cases) to ramp up and make it safer to push a dirt wall down... last I checked anyway. If it is easy to raid then there will only be one kingdom on chaos and it's whoever is the top dogs and maybe anyone they allow lol. Defending has to be possible with much fewer numbers and right now it's really not you guys let off in this most recent raid.

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2 minutes ago, Maximillian said:

I think you have to bash 2 minedoors and 1 longhouse(in most cases) to ramp up and make it safer to push a dirt wall down... last I checked anyway. If it is easy to raid then there will only be one kingdom on chaos and it's whoever is the top dogs and maybe anyone they allow lol. Defending has to be possible with much fewer numbers and right now it's really not you guys let off in this most recent raid.

Its not a matter of making it easier its a matter of making it viable to actually raid. The biggest thing for me right now is being able to repair something right outside a minedoor from inside the mine. Being able to bash it fine, but being able to repair from inside the safety of being in the mine is stupid.

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how about starting action to bash mine door and running 5 tiles away, it must be fixed aswell, many many weird and broken things

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4 minutes ago, Malev said:

how about starting action to bash mine door and running 5 tiles away, it must be fixed aswell, many many weird and broken things

I agree that is something off, but that action can be interupted and stopped since they arent completely safe because of a on deed minedoor and reinforced safe mine!

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I know that I do not PVP because of my own reasons.  But here is what I see from the outside.  I have the numbers so I'm gonna go raid and demolish everything and loot everything and of course drain any upkeep I can get.  I will come back for all upkeep until the town disbands.  Then with the next breath.  I have noone to fight.  Noone will fight me.  There is noone playing Chaos/Epic.  Ummm duh.  If I know that I have no chance against anyone and that anything I do is going to be demolished and that every item I own will be taken from me.  Not to mention the money for the deed that I dropped that was forced to disband by someone else.  Why in the world would I pick to do this?

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9 minutes ago, Pashka said:

I know that I do not PVP because of my own reasons.  But here is what I see from the outside.  I have the numbers so I'm gonna go raid and demolish everything and loot everything and of course drain any upkeep I can get.  I will come back for all upkeep until the town disbands.  Then with the next breath.  I have noone to fight.  Noone will fight me.  There is noone playing Chaos/Epic.  Ummm duh.  If I know that I have no chance against anyone and that anything I do is going to be demolished and that every item I own will be taken from me.  Not to mention the money for the deed that I dropped that was forced to disband by someone else.  Why in the world would I pick to do this?

 Can you refrain from derailing the thread. Your post is just screaming whining instead of providing anything constructive to the argument. 

Edited by Egard

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has to do with the state of raiding I'd say.  As I play this game I'd say we have a say in all of this too.  Or are you not trying to get folks over there.  Guess you should get this locked so only those that presently pvp can respond and oh yea.,  Make sure noone else can ever join chaos/epic.  That will work well for you guys.

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3 minutes ago, Egard said:

sir what this have to do with the thread ? Can you refrain from derailing the thread. If you dont pvp then what you doing here ? 

he is pointing out somethings .

 

and why things have gotten the way they are..

 

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One of the reasons i've always refused to go near enemy deeds is their minehops, them being 100% safe all the time is obnoxious to say the least.

But when we actually went ahead and tried raiding, it was awful, to the point where people quit the freaking game. How does : you being stuck for 3 hours catapulting one single wall with 3 people on 3 different catapults and 2 other people mining it out and that wall being outrepaired by one single person sound ? 

 

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1 hour ago, Prophetears said:

The battering ram is useless in its current state. It is more effective to simply handbash a wall, both in a mine and on the surface than to use it, even with 90+ war machines (which is now near impossible to raise to that level.)

 

How is it useless?  I've used a ram quite a few times off deed on epic and on freedom, the damage it does is insanely so much more than a maul.  This is with 60 warmachines on freedom, 70 on epic.  The only downside is how painfully slow it is to drag which from what I remember when the ram was being designed, was meant to be a counterbalance for how much damage it does

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They just removed the ability to grab items from 6 floors up, so repairing walls from inside a mine = no lol.

btw tested: you can repair fences so this only effects house walls which = bug

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Ummm, make it easier for the raider, that had 20+ people against 2-6 people... There is already that you can hit up to 6 walls with the new war machines, making it easier  for the attacker to poof long houses. Where before this was added you had to hit one wall at a time each story at a time to poof a long house... Ummm. So we already make the easier for the attacker. And now you want to make it easier. Why not just make it that when there is more attacker then defender that all the gates just unlock and the spirit templar don't attack and you can just walk in? 

 

Just leave the game alone. 

Edited by EvaDaly

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1 hour ago, Pashka said:

I know that I do not PVP because of my own reasons.  But here is what I see from the outside.  I have the numbers so I'm gonna go raid and demolish everything and loot everything and of course drain any upkeep I can get.  I will come back for all upkeep until the town disbands.  Then with the next breath.  I have noone to fight.  Noone will fight me.  There is noone playing Chaos/Epic.  Ummm duh.  If I know that I have no chance against anyone and that anything I do is going to be demolished and that every item I own will be taken from me.  Not to mention the money for the deed that I dropped that was forced to disband by someone else.  Why in the world would I pick to do this?

 

This is a reasonable point. The easier it is to raid, the more the softcore will leave. Conversely, I get the impression from the OP that the harder it is to raid, the more the hardcore will leave.

 

Since the softcore usually greatly outnumber the hardcore, however, the softcore leaving hits the pocketbook more. That's compounded in Wurm because Wurm is a slow game, that at least partly relies on sunk player investment to hold players.

 

That is, if you log in to find everything you've worked on for months gone, that makes it doubly easy to leave:

 

- One, from an emotional perspective (my stuff is gone! all that work down the drain; I'm done with this game);

- Two, from a rational perspective (since my investment in this game is diminished or gone, nothing's holding me back from quitting and doing something else, and maybe this is a good time to try that shiny new game I saw).

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I can almost smell that "pushing your own agenda" thing again here so you can benefit even further like this game sadly works. Whine enough and that kingdom with most folks gets change happen.

 

I cant really argue with raiding being super slow and not really worth the effort, some changes to game mechanics are required, but that attitude of you guys saying, you dont peeveepee so you cant post here is  utter BS. Then you guys wonder why people leaving chaos or not coming at all, its because of that attitude of yours. You dont give them any reasons to stay, so why would they?

 

You guys already can sum up 20+ dudes easily for a raid with drake sets/scale/mm stuff + that neat map tool you have on use + you guys actually know how pvp here works vs so many others... maybe recruit a bit more, maybe raiding gets easier and you can try to force that merge you were talking about, since not enough enemies.

 

Sheeps will join strongest kingdom to learn and mostly just to benefit, that will never change sadly, then we scratch our head when there aint enough pvp when over half of pvp folks are in same kingdom and the most active ones.

 

Keep doing hotas and enjoy those new statues you guys were granted and sell them to pay your rent... ehm deed upkeeps. and aye it is rightfully yours for taking as the strongest kingdom, like EMR didnt do hotas at all...560?? i think.

 

Raiding aint fun because most of people cant stay online for at least 14 hours for a raid unless they are single without kids and dont have a job or in vacation, but neither is pvp at this state, 2 vs 10 is hardly worth even trying, unless all merge to 2 almost equal kingdoms so we -might- get equal numbers, but that will never happen with all the differences between some players.

 

Either way we change the game someone will not like it and will leave, question is, how many will.

Stop pushing your own agendas and work as a community towards 1 goal... better playing experience for all, aint that hard if you try. Thanks.

Edited by Themystrix
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Raiding is not supposed to be easy.

 

Its supposed to be hard.

 

Please stop complaining about features any time you dislike the outcome of in game exchanges.

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well, repairing walls from inside a mine isn't a feature, it's a bug. Test it on fences, you're not allowed to do it. Ty

Also, nobody who's replied has raided under current mechanics to call it easy. mmmm.

 

People cried when you couldn't bash from inside a mine because the enemy forced you in, that was changed.
I don't mind it, but @devs there can be a BALANCE for it. You should remove on deed bash bonus if enemy are in local, or you should remove on deed bash bonus if inside a mine.
This way, if a enemy does wall you in, it will take you time to fix the reason why you're deed was setup to allow this by bashing the wall, but also it makes it worth while to wall you in.

Raiding is not easy, nobody in this chat will raid any TC deed with 2 TC in local, facts.

Edited by Mclavin

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1 hour ago, Themystrix said:
1 hour ago, Themystrix said:

I can almost smell that "pushing your own agenda" thing again here so you can benefit even further like this game sadly works. Whine enough and that kingdom with most folks gets change happen.

 

I cant really argue with raiding being super slow and not really worth the effort, some changes to game mechanics are required, but that attitude of you guys saying, you dont peeveepee so you cant post here is  utter BS. Then you guys wonder why people leaving chaos or not coming at all, its because of that attitude of yours. You dont give them any reasons to stay, so why would they?

 

You guys already can sum up 20+ dudes easily for a raid with drake sets/scale/mm stuff + that neat map tool you have on use + you guys actually know how pvp here works vs so many others... maybe recruit a bit more, maybe raiding gets easier and you can try to force that merge you were talking about, since not enough enemies.

 

Sheeps will join strongest kingdom to learn and mostly just to benefit, that will never change sadly, then we scratch our head when there aint enough pvp when over half of pvp folks are in same kingdom and the most active ones.

 

Keep doing hotas and enjoy those new statues you guys were granted and sell them to pay your rent... ehm deed upkeeps. and aye it is rightfully yours for taking as the strongest kingdom, like EMR didnt do hotas at all...560?? i think.

 

Raiding aint fun because most of people cant stay online for at least 14 hours for a raid unless they are single without kids and dont have a job or in vacation, but neither is pvp at this state, 2 vs 10 is hardly worth even trying, unless all merge to 2 almost equal kingdoms so we -might- get equal numbers, but that will never happen with all the differences between some players.

 

Either way we change the game someone will not like it and will leave, question is, how many will.

Stop pushing your own agendas and work as a community towards 1 goal... better playing experience for all, aint that hard if you try. Thanks.

 

You aren't wrong. It is our own agenda, but we are the people to raid. We are also the only people that have done high profile raids since MRC disbanded, and the only people that raided capitols routinely for years before that. Half of the things that slides in favor of the defenders are bugs, that stack with things that aren't bugs, that stack further with things that both attackers and defenders have access to.

 

The way deeds are currently design encourage unnecessary damage, and make it near impossible. Nobody who has ever played the game can raid a couple of the deeds on Chaos right now, i'd easily wager my life savings on that. So i can really understand this post and where its coming from, and 14 hours is an underestimate. Its 30-40 to clear a well-built deed these days, and thats with luck on disintegrates. With old mechanics, like just Zerus, it was 10-14 hours. Nobody here has the time to put 30-40 hours in continuously, and if you want something gone, you can pretty much never leave.

 

But whatever, people are really against changes that are better for balance of the game overall. I just wanted to explain this. In current mechanics, I am 100% certain nobody that has viewed this thread would be able to raid any of the deeds we live in, or get beyond one layer, regardless of the people they have without investing more than 15 hours. I just think thats really unreasonable. Its literally more effort to raid a deed in Wurm than it is for anything in EVE online, and nobody has issues with that. People just don't see the problem here until theyre the ones attempting it, and, in a situation like this, the truth of the matter is nobody will ever attempt to raid anyone until theyre top dog. I'm waiting for the day another kingdom attempts it, the best raid prep in the game for the two most well designed deeds in the game is quite literally a loaded revolver (for yourself). A newer kingdom tried raiding recently and a lot of them quit over how clunky, buggy, and difficult it was. Its incredibly stressful for us and we have the most seasoned people on the server.

 

If it was as easy as everyone says it was, more than us would do it, and we certainly wouldnt be prepping for 3-4 days, and then STRUGGLING regardless of deed size to make progress. I'll even make a thread. Five of us will defend a deed, any number of you can try to raid it. If you get a drain and the loot from a single safemine within 8 hours, we will give the winning team five scale sets. How does that sound? (On WU, since people wouldn't attempt this on chaos, with the reward on WO)

 

You aren't wrong. It is our own agenda, but we are the people to raid. We are also the only people that have done high profile raids since MRC disbanded, and the only people that raided capitols routinely for years before that. Half of the things that slides in favor of the defenders are bugs, that stack with things that aren't bugs, that stack further with things that both attackers and defenders have access to.

 

The way deeds are currently design encourage unnecessary damage, and make it near impossible. Nobody who has ever played the game can raid a couple of the deeds on Chaos right now, i'd easily wager my life savings on that. So i can really understand this post and where its coming from, and 14 hours is an underestimate. Its 30-40 to clear a well-built deed these days, and thats with luck on disintegrates. With old mechanics, like just Zerus, it was 10-14 hours. Nobody here has the time to put 30-40 hours in continuously, and if you want something gone, you can pretty much never leave.

 

But whatever, people are really against changes that are better for balance of the game overall. I just wanted to explain this. In current mechanics, I am 100% certain nobody that has viewed this thread would be able to raid any of the deeds we live in, or get beyond one layer, regardless of the people they have without investing more than 15 hours. I just think thats really unreasonable. Its literally more effort to raid a deed in Wurm than it is for anything in EVE online, and nobody has issues with that. People just don't see the problem here until theyre the ones attempting it, and, in a situation like this, the truth of the matter is nobody will ever attempt to raid anyone until theyre top dog. I'm waiting for the day another kingdom attempts it, the best raid prep in the game for the two most well designed deeds in the game is quite literally a loaded revolver (for yourself). A newer kingdom tried raiding recently and a lot of them quit over how clunky, buggy, and difficult it was. Its incredibly stressful for us and we have the most seasoned people on the server, we also have to set aside two days of time and rotate people out.

 

If it was as easy as everyone says it was, more than us would do it, and we certainly wouldnt be prepping for 3-4 days, and then STRUGGLING regardless of deed size to make progress. I'll even make a thread. Five of us will defend a deed, any number of you can try to raid it. If you get a drain and clean one safemine within 5 hours, we will give the winning team five scale sets. How does that sound? (On WU, since people wouldn't attempt this on chaos, with the reward on WO).

 

I honestly haven't even seen anyone else in the current PvP climate attempt raiding even the smallest, generic, wardeed. I don't blame them, even that is an all day affair. And i got the replies i expected from this thread, and I know for certain all of you base your raiding experience off of us raiding you/people who don't know how to defend, and us making it look "easy". I also find it incredibly entertaining that people are saying they dont raid because it takes too long, in response to me saying raiding takes too long, and using that as a reason to not change raiding.

Edited by Prophetears

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You are asking for this because you have failed to raid a deed. A deed which was actively defended... for days. I understand that you are frustrated with your failure.

 

However, you are also asking for this when you don't have experience defending a deed under the current system. So you can not have a balanced perspective on this matter.

 

Sounds like you really only care about making the game better for yourself, not better for the community. Bugs should be fixed, but raiding mechanics do not need changing. There are other, vastly more important, PvP features which deserve attention at this moment.

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1 hour ago, Maxthx said:

You are asking for this because you have failed to raid a deed. A deed which was actively defended... for days. I understand that you are frustrated with your failure.

 

However, you are also asking for this when you don't have experience defending a deed under the current system. So you can not have a balanced perspective on this matter.

 

Sounds like you really only care about making the game better for yourself, not better for the community. Bugs should be fixed, but raiding mechanics do not need changing. There are other, vastly more important, PvP features which deserve attention at this moment.

 

Pretty much none of this is correct.

 

We raided the deed once, the rest of the time we were just trebbing to cause trouble because we were bored. We literally made no advances towards the deed beyond that for several days. We left the raid because of an exploit being used against us (not that they were aware of it, so i'm not going to fault them for it.) I've been frustrated with every raid since 2012 because it is staggeringly unfair and difficult, and it has been nothing but increasingly moreso. The base mechanics of defending haven't changed a bit, and you would know that had you actively participated in something like over the course of time. The reason people don't defend properly is because they usually have 1 or 2 people doing something useful, and the rest gatehopping. Thats just fact, and we can provide recordings to demonstrate this too. And in terms of experience, with the PvP side of the game in general, including defense, i am probably the -most- experienced player playing the game right now and theres likely not anyone on a PvP server that would deny that claim.

 

Right now, it is impossible for any small scale group to raid anything anymore, compared to old JKH days, because making insane deeds is much easier than those days. It's near impossible to raid a well built capitol deed now, even if you had the luxury of 50 people. It has been made easier to defend with the current design system, and i've offered to prove this to you, and everyone else here in my previous post and in another thread with a standing reward of 1200 euros in scale.

 

The people who have never raided always say the raiding mechanics should not be changed, nobody in this thread knows how difficult it is and thats an actual fact. You then ask them why they don't raid, and they say it takes too long. I wonder why? It takes longer now than it ever has. Nobody has even said remotely anything backed by anything of substance to dismiss my claims of the effort it takes to raid something. I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN ANY OF THESE PEOPLE ATTEND A RAID AND I'VE BEEN ACTIVELY PLAYING SINCE 2006.

 

And sure you're right about that, it doesn't dismiss the issue of a core part of the game being incredibly imbalanced. In your eyes its just for ourselves and selfish reasons, but its the equivalent of someone doing level-locked dungeons in an MMO, and asking for balance changes, and you or someone else saying no to those changes despite not participating in that content.

 

If you want further proof that this isn't just our opinion, talk to any of the WU, or VD guys. WU actually had players QUIT after experiencing their first offensive raid because it is so painstaking clunky, broken, buggy, difficult, and time consuming. VD hates its for the same reasons as WU, and us. That only further solidifies my opinion that most of the people here don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about if people can raid one time and literally share our opinion almost exactly, it sucks the majority of one of them is forum banned.

Edited by Prophetears

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Raiding Mechanics

 

It's true that a lot of raiding mechanics are not streamlined. The interactions of war machines versus defenders repairing, mining or bashing versus players mine hopping, and a lot of other similar interactions generally feel really clunky. There's definitely improvements that could be made to make raiding a more streamlined experience. That would essentially pit two groups of players against each other in macro combat instead of the existing mechanics that use micro-mechanics to avoid counterplay completely (such as repairing from mines, creating unfinished walls, and similar). However, there's a more important topic to discuss before going down that path.

 

Raiding Philosophy

 

The overarching issue here isn't about the mechanics specifically, but instead philosophy. Should raiding be difficult? Should a deed be a safe space where a single player can defend themselves versus many? If a raid is successful, should they be getting anything outside of artifacts?

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I'm seeing a lot of bull#### here. Namely just ego's being thrown around.

"I'm the best and I've been around the longest and because I haven't seen something that means it's never happened."

 

Empire MR literally was one giant raid spree. Raided almost daily for 2 years. We dealt with this kind of #### on a daily basis and we didn't complain about it nearly as much as you folk. And that was LONG before you could damage up to 12 walls with one single Treb shot.

Mechanically speaking raiding is currently easier than it's EVER been in the history of the game. 600 slope dirtwalls and trenches have always been possible. Nothing there has changed. But now you have opponents who are skilled enough to use them against you. Not so fun when that happens is it?

 

All things considered Proph your points might come across better if you didn't constantly try and play the "High and Mighty" card, because tbh from my reading here, you're starting to seem more like a general self-interested ###hat, and you really aren't impressing anyone here. Just making a negative impression and giving those who oppose you fuel for fire when you get your ego involved man.

 

Quote

Its incredibly stressful for us and we have the most seasoned people on the server, we also have to set aside two days of time and rotate people out. 

 

Raiding DOES take a long time. And it SHOULD, to keep things like Sparta from happening again. Make raiding too easy, and you have deeds being removed from the map without a trace in as little as 48 hours.

This has ALWAYS been the way it has been. Was during EMR's time. Is now. If you want to successfully raid you need to have a strong force on all timezones. Not just one, because one timezone worth of people won't have the time required to make something like this happen.

Again that has been the case ever since I started playing Wild nearly 7 years ago now. Nothing has changed, defensively. I agree that repairing things on surface from inside cave layer is a bit odd and broken, shouldn't be done. Shame it was done on Pandas side but, apparently you folks were well aware of it so you should have been expecting it and adapted your tactics to accommodate.

 

Btw the incomplete wall thing you mention in OP had a fix put in for it years ago, can you guess who abused it?

Edited by whereami
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Defending use if bugs to keep a deed = bad. Fix repairing from inside a mine. 

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