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Roccandil

PvP Holidays

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Was thinking it might be interesting, if on rare occasions, for a 24 hour period or so, we had PvP "holidays", in which looting of corpses was disabled, skills/affinities stayed put, and everyone who died always kept their loot.

 

If only as an experiment, I'd like to see that. :)

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You sat there

and typed this

and seriously put effort into suggesting this

and legitimately believe this is going to well accepted and wanted

 

1532034125211.jpg

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What I'm curious about is how many people would charge out to PvP, if they had nothing to lose. Do people -just- PvP because of loot?

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

What I'm curious about is how many people would charge out to PvP, if they had nothing to lose. Do people -just- PvP because of loot?

 

You have PvP all wrong.  Try it some time.

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i pvp just because of loot because it currently requires no skill outside of general strategy, aka the leader.

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Don't need an official pvp holiday since epic is on an extended vacation currently from pvp seems like.................

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Yeah, a day for people to raid without reppercussions.

 

A day for people to go on catapulting sessions without anything to loose.

 

A day for people to dig their tunnels, to cap towers, to drop deeds and to run hota with zero risk.

 

A day for people to line their pockets without fear of loss.

 

I can think of many ways to exploit such a holiday. You are insane if you think this is a good idea.

 

-1

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I remember the last time PVP was introduced to home servers. Server closed a month later. 

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46 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Yeah, a day for people to raid without reppercussions.

 

A day for people to go on catapulting sessions without anything to loose.

 

A day for people to dig their tunnels, to cap towers, to drop deeds and to run hota with zero risk.

 

A day for people to line their pockets without fear of loss.

 

I can think of many ways to exploit such a holiday.

 

You have certainly confirmed my suspicions. :P

 

Seriously, though, your statements assume everyone is simultaneously getting away with it, without hindering each other. You don't think there would be fierce combat contesting any of above, given the "zero risk" nature of the combat itself?

 

Curiously, based on your own comment, I can see that my suggestion isn't zero risk at all. Rather, the risk moves from potential item loss to potential enemy moves. The right answer is no longer sitting on deed; you've -got- to be on the prowl, otherwise, your enemy will get a leg up.

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"Welcome to the Chaos Open Day - please present your tickets to the nearest GM.

 

Sign up to our tour of the strongholds of Chaos! Representatives from the various factions will be busy at work, feel free to 'join in' on whatever they are doing, they'll be sure to provide you with whatever items or information you may need. 

 

We are expecting record numbers of visitors and exhibitors - enjoy browsing amongst lag, crashes, disconnects and various other stalls.

 

Enjoy your complimentary hota and free gifts, and don't forget to complete your wagon, flag and banner collections before you leave."

 

 

Thanks for this post. Love it. :P 

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6 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

You have certainly confirmed my suspicions. :P

 

Seriously, though, your statements assume everyone is simultaneously getting away with it, without hindering each other. You don't think there would be fierce combat contesting any of above, given the "zero risk" nature of the combat itself?

 

Curiously, based on your own comment, I can see that my suggestion isn't zero risk at all. Rather, the risk moves from potential item loss to potential enemy moves. The right answer is no longer sitting on deed; you've -got- to be on the prowl, otherwise, your enemy will get a leg up.

Let me see how I can explain this to you.

 

Right now, since there is risk, you wouldn't go to Chaos to assault a PMK deed. Why? Because people will come over and kill you and take your stuff. But with no drop on death, it means you can come to my deed, catapult it, enter it and take my stuff from the chests, containers, etc. And if I am there or see the alert and respond? Well yes, I kill you, but you won't drop anything. 

 

Basicly no drop puts the burden of loss on the defender. Attackers loose nothing by trying to attack, while defenders have everything to loose. Imagine yourself having to defend against BL at Minnowick without a chance to make them stop? Finally you get to kill Hellfang, who doesn't drop, which then jumps on another boat and heads back to Minnowick, with no downtime to gear up at all. You'd just get swarmed until your defenders are overwhelmed, the enemy gets on your deed, and picks up your valuables, only to let you kill them so they can teleport home with all the loot they got from your deed.

 

THAT, my friend, is why its a terrible idea.

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so I can go up to your deed and inspect the deed/look at your area/spot towers/map all this info without risk?

Sounds like alt abuse son

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7 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Let me see how I can explain this to you.

 

Right now, since there is risk, you wouldn't go to Chaos to assault a PMK deed. Why? Because people will come over and kill you and take your stuff. But with no drop on death, it means you can come to my deed, catapult it, enter it and take my stuff from the chests, containers, etc. And if I am there or see the alert and respond? Well yes, I kill you, but you won't drop anything. 

 

Basicly no drop puts the burden of loss on the defender. Attackers loose nothing by trying to attack, while defenders have everything to loose. Imagine yourself having to defend against BL at Minnowick without a chance to make them stop? Finally you get to kill Hellfang, who doesn't drop, which then jumps on another boat and heads back to Minnowick, with no downtime to gear up at all. You'd just get swarmed until your defenders are overwhelmed, the enemy gets on your deed, and picks up your valuables, only to let you kill them so they can teleport home with all the loot they got from your deed.

 

THAT, my friend, is why its a terrible idea.

 

Hellfang might not need to regear on the way back to Mino, but the trip back is still -time-. The Mino defenders can just swarm and get right back in the fight when they die. Every enemy they kill gives better odds for the next kill for a significant period of time, and if the odds are anywhere near even at the start, the attackers are never getting in.

 

It will be a snowball effect.

 

A few more things:

 

- According to Prophetears, there's no loot on deeds outside resources, so no one's carrying much of that home on their dead body.

- You might get to see our deed, but we get to see how our deed defends. I'd say that's an even trade.

- Your attack is an opportunity cost; if you're at Mino, you're not elsewhere. That's an exploitable situation. (Let's leave just enough at Mino to defend, while another squad goes to Affliction.)

- In your scenario, if you come back one by one as you're killed, you'll be donating a -lot- of boats to Mino. :)

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Couple more thoughts:

 

- The burden of loss may move to the defender, but in sheer financial terms, is the loss comparable? That is, a few defenders in scale can't hold off X attackers and lose their deed resources. Is the cost of those resources anywhere close to what they would have lost if their scale had dropped?

- Newbies in plate could be more useful, and be less frustrated.

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5 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

The burden of loss may move to the defender, but in sheer financial terms, is the loss comparable? That is, a few defenders in scale can't hold off X attackers and lose their deed resources. Is the cost of those resources anywhere close to what they would have lost if their scale had dropped?

 

dude you don't raid to steal iron ore, like when BL raided EC the old MR capital on old elevation, they broke into nearly every single house, picked every single boat, and took every single thing that wasn't nailed down.  We all kept what we logged off with so we should've been right right?!  Except when every village mate loses all their spare gear, their different weapons, their crafting tools, and you lose your entire stock of horses, it cripples an entire kingdom.  But hey, at least you kept your armor haha!

 

10 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

Newbies in plate could be more useful, and be less frustrated.

 

They're probably frustrated at dying as fast as it takes to rip paper in half, not lose the plate that someone gave them

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18 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

dude you don't raid to steal iron ore, like when BL raided EC the old MR capital on old elevation, they broke into nearly every single house, picked every single boat, and took every single thing that wasn't nailed down.  We all kept what we logged off with so we should've been right right?!  Except when every village mate loses all their spare gear, their different weapons, their crafting tools, and you lose your entire stock of horses, it cripples an entire kingdom.  But hey, at least you kept your armor haha!

 

I was just going with Prophetears' report that you don't get loot raiding these days, due to merchants and storage alts...

 

I also note that you probably wouldn't have logged off if you knew you wouldn't lose your gear dying. You'd have stayed and fought, and maybe prevented so much loss.

 

 

18 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

They're probably frustrated at dying as fast as it takes to rip paper in half, not lose the plate that someone gave them

 

Perhaps true, but only if they felt like they weren't actually being useful. If they died attacking an enemy that subsequently died, I suspect it would be different (especially on defense, since they could get right back out there).

 

Even so, losing gear in no way affects how fast they die, so losing gear simply reinforces the pointlessness.

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29 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

I was just going with Prophetears' report that you don't get loot raiding these days, due to merchants and storage alts...

 

I also note that you probably wouldn't have logged off if you knew you wouldn't lose your gear dying. You'd have stayed and fought, and maybe prevented so much loss.

 

Not every single thing is on merchants or storage alts for every single player.  And anyone with an ounce of pvp knowledge knows the best way to raid for loot is when the enemy are already offline at a downtime (usually when people sleep) because defenders with a brain will stop you from raiding, which is exactly what happened with BL.  They raided when only a couple people were online and got nearly everything, later they try raiding when MR was able to get people, BL didn't even get inside.  Keeping your gear or not doesn't change the fact you aren't even awake to defend against impenetrable loot goblins

Edited by MrGARY

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26 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

I was just going with Prophetears' report that you don't get loot raiding these days, due to merchants and storage alts...

 

I also note that you probably wouldn't have logged off if you knew you wouldn't lose your gear dying. You'd have stayed and fought, and maybe prevented so much loss.

 

 

 

Perhaps true, but only if they felt like they weren't actually being useful. If they died attacking an enemy that subsequently died, I suspect it would be different (especially on defense, since they could get right back out there).

 

Even so, losing gear in no way affects how fast they die, so losing gear simply reinforces the pointlessness.

You are completely missing the point. You are creating completely irrational scenarios to justify your position. What I just suggested already happened. Alex and I raided Mimmowick and we walked away with plenty of rares, supremes and valuable loot. Our guys arrived at the tail end of the raid as did your defenders and we had zero losses. You lost everything. 

 

Now imagine for a moment if you got nothing from killing your attackers? If we crushed your spirits during that raid, imagine the sense of hopelessness to know that attackers wouldnt have to remove an entire longhouse, but instead crack a hole and yolo in to take your stuff? 

 

Obviously you know nothing about raid mechanics, and thats why you think this is a good idea. Its not. The moment I can crack your wall, your house, and loot everything in less than 10 minutes its the moment this game dies.

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8 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

Not every single thing is on merchants or storage alts for every single player.  And anyone with an ounce of pvp knowledge knows the best way to raid for loot is when the enemy are already offline at a downtime (usually when people sleep) because defenders with a brain will stop you from raiding, which is exactly what happened with BL.  They raided when only a couple people were online and got nearly everything, later they try raiding when MR was able to get people, BL didn't even get inside.  Keeping your gear or not doesn't change the fact you aren't even awake to defend against impenetrable loot goblins

 

If no one's online to defend, how does gear-dropping-or-not by the attackers have any effect on the outcome?

 

8 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

You are completely missing the point. You are creating completely irrational scenarios to justify your position. What I just suggested already happened. Alex and I raided Mimmowick and we walked away with plenty of rares, supremes and valuable loot. Our guys arrived at the tail end of the raid as did your defenders and we had zero losses. You lost everything. 

 

Now imagine for a moment if you got nothing from killing your attackers? If we crushed your spirits during that raid, imagine the sense of hopelessness to know that attackers wouldnt have to remove an entire longhouse, but instead crack a hole and yolo in to take your stuff? 

 

Obviously you know nothing about raid mechanics, and thats why you think this is a good idea. Its not. The moment I can crack your wall, your house, and loot everything in less than 10 minutes its the moment this game dies.

 

I doubt Mino is representative of Chaos. Granted, I have no experience on Chaos, which is why I was relying on Prophetear's report: that almost no one successfully raids, that loot is on merchants/storage alts, and that raiding is about resources.

 

To your point, however, we didn't kill any Mino attackers, because no one was on to defend. The question of whether or not we might have gotten loot from the attackers, and how we would have felt about not being able to, is moot (moot loot! :P ).

 

But if even one defender had been on, no gear drops would have made that one defender a -lot- more annoying, and you might not have looted as much as you did.

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