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Prophetears

Minor Changes Round 2

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37 members have voted

  1. 1. Merchant Taunting

  2. 2. Hour Logout With Enemy in Local

  3. 3. Minedoors



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Bring "Merchant Taunting" to Chaos

 

It was a well-loved feature on Epic. It took about an hour per merchant. Pretty much nobody sells anything, as everyone is in a PMK at this point combined with the lack of scarcity. At this point, every merchant on the server is used for storage, usually kept in a safemine on top of that. I know in Ascalon we have over 30 merchants on deed, and every merchant is used solely for storage. It is -very- discouraging for people to raid and just find nearly every valuable is on an alt or on a merchant, and this takes care of one avenue of abuse. Invulnerable storage has to be one of the most broken mechanics in the game today.

 

Hour logout with enemy in local

 

Pretty self explanatory. Currently you can login, grab your gear, and logout within 5 minutes, and it takes roughly 3 hours to bash a single 90ql metal door with 10 people. It makes it far too easy to abuse. This feature was also implemented on Epic and was well loved. Someahing to be considered is interactions with beds, as it was a longstanding bug after implementation that you could still insta-log on a bed.

 

Remove the ability to improve metal minedoors after placement

 

Currently, you can improve a metal minedoor after it is placed and this is a problem for several reasons. The first is, the improve timer is very short, and you can undo 5-10-15 minutes of work in 4 seconds. The second is that it is currently bugged, and you can imp much much more than normal while it is placed, making that 10-15 into reverting an hour of work in 8-10 seconds.

 

Increase minedoor placement time to a minute

 

Currently, on a PvP server, you can setup two hops near eachother, slap on 30-40ql doors, and just slap on another door from the entrance of the other mine as they bash into one, basically indefinitely halting progress of a raid crew and further bolstering the already broken strength of the minespam meta.

 

 

Other threads to come due to limited polling options.

Edited by Prophetears

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Let's get the ball rolling on the first changes before we start looking at others. 

 

 

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Merchant Taunting was one of those Epic features that we Chaos folk did truly ask for and never get. +1 there.

 

Gonna have to say no on the logout timer for a few reasons. Firstly I feel it would incentivize bashing into safemines, which could be a good thing for the game if PvP wasn't already entirely numbers based. This will only make the kingdom with more numbers more powerful, as smaller kingdoms still will not see this as feasible in 90% of circumstances, and that I feel will only detract from PvP.

 

The mine door changes themselves seem good. Imping minedoors after placement does seem kind of dumb and it removes the need for a new door entirely, something that seems quite critical to me.

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Was going to make some votes for yes, but then realized that it's just about moving epic features to Chaos

Edited by Wilczan
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For Mine doors:

 

Voted Yes to both. First part should definitely be done now that you can use a crowbar to take mine doors off to imp (if they're on deed). The second part I feel is necessary as well to stop spamming of mine doors whilst the enemy is raiding, though I feel it should work like push/pull in that the timer is only increased whilst enemies are in local or if done off deed.

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Wouldn't getting rid of invulnerable merchants just move storage to alts?  I mean, strictly, alts are actually cheaper than merchants (2s first premium) and already slightly safer.  Feels a bit treating the symptoms...

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I am all for changes... But why try to bring epic to chaos ... If you want to play with epic rules.. I would say go play on epic.

 

-1 all the way through this 

 

Sorry

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People do not realize the scope of the merchants being untauntable. It is a huge balance issue that may seem targeted towards you if you have it, but guys everyone uses it, if you raided a deed and ran into a merchant and no loot you would not be too happy.

 

Logout timer I voted yes on, but I really do not care. I get why some people do not want it, and I agree with those reasons. So I am torn.

 

The mine door thing, again I it really is a minor change as suggested. You should not be able to half an enemy like that. To those against, I suggest building underground buildings after the door for additional defense, sure battering ram, but why not?

 

 

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I'll grant the merchant suggestion seems obvious, and as to minedoors, a simpler solution would be to disable imping/replacement operations on them while they are being bashed (that seems silly too).

 

Nevertheless, the general thrust of these suggestions favors attackers, and I'm opposed to tipping the balance any more in favor of offense. Let's see turrets and archery towers actually be useful/dangerous, and fencing in guard towers fixed.

 

I also think we should have thick walls (an entire tile?) that would be -much- harder to catapult, and as well as massive barred doors that can't be picked. (Think the gate/walls of Minas Tirith. Why did the orcs bother with the huge battering ram Grond when they could have just picked the lock! :P )

 

Would also love to see fixed siege emplacements for wall-based, counter-battery fire (buildable on top of those thick walls).

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Voted yes to everything but imping placed mine doors. I don't think that feature should be removed, but blocking it while enemies are in local would be good.

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37 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

I'll grant the merchant suggestion seems obvious, and as to minedoors, a simpler solution would be to disable imping/replacement operations on them while they are being bashed (that seems silly too).

 

Nevertheless, the general thrust of these suggestions favors attackers, and I'm opposed to tipping the balance any more in favor of offense. Let's see turrets and archery towers actually be useful/dangerous, and fencing in guard towers fixed.

 

I also think we should have thick walls (an entire tile?) that would be -much- harder to catapult, and as well as massive barred doors that can't be picked. (Think the gate/walls of Minas Tirith. Why did the orcs bother with the huge battering ram Grond when they could have just picked the lock! :P )

 

Would also love to see fixed siege emplacements for wall-based, counter-battery fire (buildable on top of those thick walls).

 

When you raid now, you get no reward.

 

If you were to raid ascalon, youd be looking at 100+ hours of man on scene raiding to be able to get into all the areas where loot was stored. If you had one person defending, you wouldn't be able to get down a single minedoor because one imp action would undo an hour of work from 15 people. Just to clarify, as, nobody here seems to really know how hard it is to raid, because, pretty much nobody outside of us do it. It is "easy" to get the drain, it is nigh impossible to get any loot at all. I also mean this as literally as possible. A 90ql metal door takes like what, an hour to make? It takes 3 hours with 15 people bashing, with artifacts, to remove a 90ql metal door without being interrupted by templars, towerguards, or other players. Templars and towerguards would slow you down a little bit. One player at 90JS/BS can imp a placed metal door from 8500-9000 consistently in a single action as it currently stands, in 4 seconds. It takes about 30 minutes to get a door down that far. Now lets say, somehow, you manage to bash it with them imping it and interrupting you constantly. They can walk out, place another door, and youre back to square 1

Edited by Prophetears

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Yes merchants

Yes logoff if we mean on deed like epic (cant instantly log off in a bed afaik, I've had bugged log off timer before and had 1hr timer on a bed)

No to mine door imp change - just remove ability to imp it with enemy in local

No to mine door placement change - just increase the timer with enemy in local

 

By enemy I mean the standard prem, 20fs whatever limits that normally exist in these cases

 

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2 hours ago, Prophetears said:

 

When you raid now, you get no reward.

 

If you were to raid ascalon, youd be looking at 100+ hours of man on scene raiding to be able to get into all the areas where loot was stored. If you had one person defending, you wouldn't be able to get down a single minedoor because one imp action would undo an hour of work from 15 people. Just to clarify, as, nobody here seems to really know how hard it is to raid, because, pretty much nobody outside of us do it. It is "easy" to get the drain, it is nigh impossible to get any loot at all.

 

- Chaos is backed by Freedom. How much more loot would there be on Chaos if Freedom wasn't there to provide a safe haven (or a place to sell)?

- "Reward" for a raid is other people's time and effort, and the easier it is to steal that, the more people will quit PvP or Wurm altogether. It -should- be extremely hard to get deed loot. Looting a deed is like eating the eggs out of a nest.

 

PVP can be loot-driven, which tends to consume its own population, or it can be accomplishment-driven. World of Tanks is a good example of a PvP game with long grinds but no looting, and people ceaselessly throw themselves into combat.

 

Bottom line, the easier the looting, the less the PvPing.

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21 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

- Chaos is backed by Freedom. How much more loot would there be on Chaos if Freedom wasn't there to provide a safe haven (or a place to sell)?

- "Reward" for a raid is other people's time and effort, and the easier it is to steal that, the more people will quit PvP or Wurm altogether. It -should- be extremely hard to get deed loot. Looting a deed is like eating the eggs out of a nest.

 

PVP can be loot-driven, which tends to consume its own population, or it can be accomplishment-driven. World of Tanks is a good example of a PvP game with long grinds but no looting, and people ceaselessly throw themselves into combat.

 

Bottom line, the easier the looting, the less the PvPing.

 

Right now, theres no looting outside of raw materials.

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12 hours ago, whereami said:

if PvP wasn't already entirely numbers based.

 

>Be on Chaos

>See deathtabs blink red three times, oh boy someone's getting killed

>Watch as Xallo pops 3 people single handedly

>Continue mining afk at a marble vein bought with a rod 

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8 hours ago, EvaDaly said:

I am all for changes... But why try to bring epic to chaos ... If you want to play with epic rules.. I would say go play on epic.

 

-1 all the way through this 

 

Sorry

 

"why try and bring proven good changes for the game to chaos"

"ᵢf yₒᵤ wₐₙₜ ₜₒ ₚₗₐy wᵢₜₕ ₑₚᵢc ᵣᵤₗₑₛ.. ᵢ wₒᵤₗd ₛₐy gₒ ₚₗₐy ₒₙ ₑₚᵢc." -every change you're against and cannot figure out a valid counter argument 

 

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