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Brash_Endeavors

Tutorial grade resources at starter towns

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I was watching a new youtuber*** trying to "get into Wurm," they made it clear they had never heard of the game before but that the game trailer and the "Sandbox" description actually excited them:

 

 

 

 

 

They had zero previous experience with the game, had never even heard of it before. They gave it over two hours though. It was rather painful watching them struggle through trying to "get" the so-called tutorial.  Then someone in their  chat linked them to a "How To Get Started In Wurm" guide on Wurmpedia, which seemed to give them some hope. Of course, they did not understand the direction to "equip a shovel" and thought it mean, um, to equip a shovel.  Which they did. Then they traveled around trying to decide where to dig up ground to find clay (probably a 7D2D player), and apparently were told to look along the water, so they started down the coastline but I think never did find any clay and I think ran into a Troll, with the expected consequences. I hope they will give the game another try, but they might have decided 2+ hours was enough of an attempt. I hope devs watch this video, to get an idea how totally new players react to  figuring out the game. 

 

 

If we are not going to ever again have a decent tutorial, I'd love to see the server starter towns become even more newbie friendly. I was thinking of how much help it is to have a small public iron mine etc, and most decent WU servers now all include a starter area with access to: trees, iron, clay at a minimum.   One issue of course is that if you put iron-clay-trees at the starter towns, that discourages players from striking out, or even encourages veteran players to use up the resources to level woodcutting etc. However, it is not a bad thing for new players to spend their initial time at a start area, perhaps stockpiling some supplies and making a large cart before striking out. They can finetune some skills and get a samle of the game's crafting system before heading out. 

 

 

Much of the issues around providing starter resources could maybe be solved if devs introduced a new "tutorial quality grade" of resources at the starter areas, perhaps capped at quality 1-9,  and providing little to no XP to anyone with above newbie skill levels. This would also give them a chance to make things like a sickle, drinking water containers, and extremely basic tools or weapons that they can (later) upgrade themselves. Devs have said however that a major reason they removed the original "hands on and try things" tutorial, was that the GM team was overtaxed trying to clean up the messes made, even with a very very fast decay system. Maybe they do not want new players hanging around starter areas very long, for that reason. There must be some possible solutions to that though. I remember back when I played WO more (mostly WU now), how many times I heard/saw new players give up because the only action they could ever figure out was Forage, and they never got any chance to actually MAKE anything themselves, only to walk around and "admire" other people's work (which is frankly NOT  'inspiring' if you are not getting any chance to try things out yourself).

 

 

 

 

*** actually not a "new youtuber", I was basing that on the low number of YT subscribers but that is because they are primarily a Twitch streamer)

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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52 minutes ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

If we are not going to ever again have a decent tutorial, I'd love to see the server starter towns become even more newbie friendly.

 

Since long I have argued this should be the way forward. No tutorial at all, just real starter towns where new people can get their initial supplies (also: cotton!!! With the current starter gear they can kill a wolf but die from the wounds 10 minutes later).

 

There's also another reason for this. Not all new players are aware they land on a tutorial server, instead some think they land in a deserted game that nobody plays ... because there's no other players on Golden Valley.

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I think this is a valuable lesson for us all.

 

Although uncomfortable to watch through, it is worth Devs seeing it through to the end to gain a better insight into the 'new player' experience.

 

In Wurm as in many things in life, the first experience is everything - here is where the game is make or break for the new player.

 

Let us not underestimate the important roles that real people play in the success or failure of our early ventures into this world - looking back on our own experiences - how many of us would have got as far as we have without help from real people - from the folks who update the wiki, to the folks in CA_Help and chat channels, to fellow players and more experienced veterans who actually walk through the game with us by our side until we find our feet.  The importance of these more experienced Wurm ambassadors should not be underestimated, and perhaps there should even be some more organised volunteer 'buddy system' in place. 

 

The most powerful resource Wurm has is the wonderful existing player-base - and however good any tutorial, it will never replace someone actually talking us through issues as they arise in game and giving advice tailored to our own needs, native language and time scale.

 

Amongst all his frustrations, there were still moments of triumph - Devs should take time to reflect on one feature that seemed to bring the new player most pleasure - using the silver mirror.

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Yeah this shows the problem is more serious than we could even imagine :(  I for example would agree to having no new content added for veteran players for sometime if it would speed up effort in adressing this and will bring UI overhaul to the closer date so we get new player retention faster. while i was totaly fine picking things up by myself, without any tutorial, and other player help, sad truth is that those cases are very rare and most people understandably struggle like this guy....

Tutorial seems to do more damage than good, people are confused with activating tools in order to use them, confused that they can't pick up things from starter town and tutorial area, some stronger and more interactive  way of showing them how to play is needed than simple pop ups that no one reads. Also new UI seems to be much needed asap. Comunity is a great tool in Wurm and always have been, but can't help players in GV, even in starter towns is debatable unless it's organized better. By the time 1 player comes to noob friendly village i guess 10 others have given up already

Idk, there is no easy solution, none that i can think of i admit, but this certanly should be important lesson and should not be ignored....

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I almost wonder if there shouldn't be a tutorial instance per new player, so they can have all the resources they need to learn the basics. Maybe even have missions that will award a few skill points in certain skills (chop wood for +5 levels in woodcutting).

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For me it illustrated several problems

  • the unwillingness of people to read a multitude of text filled tutorial windows
  • frustration caused by being unable to take or interact with things in the tutorial area
  • complexity of the UI trying to perform a simple (to us) task like creating a mallet, important failure error messages in the event log weren't noticed for some time
  • the poor performance and lag when looking around I suspect caused by using 32 bit java. The startup 32 bit java warning window needs a more prominent performance warning.

Towards the end of the stream I noticed he thanked buddat from his stream chat for his assistance, hopefully that was our beloved chief dev @Buddawatching closely.

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just the average 50 IQ 'I wanna be a streamer" streamer who also probably couldn't figure out how to play Civ 5 or something, I wouldn't sweat it much 

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14 minutes ago, Cornchips said:

just the average 50 IQ 'I wanna be a streamer" streamer who also probably couldn't figure out how to play Civ 5 or something, I wouldn't sweat it much 

 

 

 

Hopefully the average Wurm veteran that new players run into, is a little less rude and hostile than you.

 

 

 

 

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well hopefully you see that I'm most likely painting the most accurate picture of anyone in this thread, there's people like this dude literally by the hundreds that have an attention span of 2 hours per game then never see anything else of it

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This guy continually zips through without reading, has no attention span, and flat out says he wants instant gratification. That's not Wurm. This game isn't right for this person, and that's okay. There's games out there for everyone, and not every game suits every person. Though I understand that the tutorial isn't great, and frankly confused me when I started, this is an extreme example.

 

Heck even the trailer needs some help. Did you see those Ship skins? So old.

 

+1 on revamping the tutorial. The idea someone posted about an instanced tutorial isn't actually bad. That resolves the issues of Devs having to clean up starter towns constantly, but give opportunities for new players to work through creation of basic items, understanding the compass + map instead of the idiot location like many games have, and the basics of containers and equipment.  They walk out of the tutorial via portal with a basic grasp of how to function, and a better chance of success (leading to higher retention rates).

 

 

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This guy clearly doesn't read, has very little attention span and is most likely familiar with fast-paced console gaming that holds his hand through every moment, telling him what to do next. 

 

Once again, niche game, niche people attracted to stay long term.

This guy is going to game-hop until he tries to trade in his house at GameStop. 

 

I doubt he can even define the term "Sandbox" in a way that most of us would agree. 

 

I've always felt CCAB could do better targeted-marketing trying to get the attention of possible Niche Wurmians who might not even know about the game instead of worrying about trying to get bad-fit people to stay. 

Edited by Trake

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16 minutes ago, Seriphina said:

This guy continually zips through without reading, has no attention span, and flat out says he wants instant gratification.

 

13 minutes ago, Trake said:

This guy clearly doesn't read, has very little attention span and is most likely familiar with fast-paced console gaming that holds his hand through every moment, telling him what to do next. 

 

In all fairness, "instant gratification" is a broad term, that can range from wanting 90+ stats and all tomes now, to just wanting to cut down one's first tree.

 

Perhaps Wurm really isn't the game for that guy, but even so, I'd focus on "zero gratification", those moments when a player trying the game, whether through failure or confusion, simply can't do something. The more a new player experiences that, the more likely they are to fail a "why am I playing?" check, and do something else.

 

Using instant gratification to dismiss the effects of zero gratification is counterproductive. Rather, Wurm is a game of "gradual gratification", and doling out consistent small doses of gameplay gratification to draw in and retain players would seem to be a better strategy.

 

(Hey, I started a fire! Hey, I made a mallet!)

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7 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

I was thinking of how much help it is to have a small public iron mine etc, and most decent WU servers now all include a starter area with access to: trees, iron, clay at a minimum. 

These are at every starter town and have been for as long as I can remember, there were a few xanadu towns that lacked clay so we placed that in. 

 

We've spoken about the tutorial at length, so there's not much else that can be said, the new UI will include a better tutorial system than a show and tell deed on an empty server. 

 

Everyone will have their own experiences playing wurm, and especially starting out, I imagine many of us started with friends and enjoyed figuring stuff out, the first advice I'd give any new player is the wurmpedia is their friend, the book of knowledge is also extremely helpful, encourage the use of that too

 

 

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Most players have some prior experience of some game or another and usually these games follow a tried and tested rule set and interface - a recipe shared by other similar games (that's partly why they are successful) and the players feel more knowledgeable because they are on well worn rails.  The problem is that a lot of players then assume that the next game that they play will automatically follow intuitively on from the last one they played.

 

Wurm is substantially different from the games the majority of people have met, and this first hour or two is crucial for encouraging the new player to forget what he has learned previously and to try something new.

 

That first hour should therefore be a window of opportunity, not a brick wall against which he bangs his head repeatedly.

 

It is one of the most difficult aspects of game design - introducing games to new players, offering direction without pushing, explaining techniques without lecturing, whilst allowing for developing choices and a feeling of continued progress and real accomplishment.

 

Something I have noticed is a lot of people come into a game 'hyped up' from a trailer or video and seeking an instant buzz, and it takes a surprising amount of time for them to settle down to the slower pace of the game they are starting.

 

Folks say 'learning is its own reward' - but I think the sheer number of 'wasted' clicks during the tutorial, which provided neither acquisition nor accomplishment, is food for thought.

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the tutorial blows - replace this with a proper tutorial video, its hard to explain the commands through the use of all those little signs/popups confusing as hell - show the new player How to do things, don't confuse them with a rat maze 

 

dropping new players into a empty server is a horrible idea (golden valley)

 

just have them choose a starter town to spawn in

 

 

Edited by JakeRivers

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1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

the tutorial blows - replace this with a proper tutorial video, its hard to explain the commands through the use of all those little signs/popups confusing as hell - show the new player How to do things, don't confuse them with a rat maze 

 

dropping new players into a empty server is a horrible idea (golden valley)

 

just have them choose a starter town to spawn in

 

 

Aye it does, In-depth game tutorial videos, starting from grass level how to do stuff is required and i bet it wouldnt hurt to actually advertise the wurmpedia site to newcomers as well.

 

Althought it is required to update and add more information to it.

 

 

When i first started i didnt really get the tutorial part and without my friends and bros... i really wasnt planning to get in the game again when i quit after few hours, but i was insisted of giving it another go and after half a year i give in to try again. 

 

It required RL friends for me to start playing this game since i really aint that kind of person who likes to talk crap with people in chats or constantly asking for help. I am kinda hermit soul and i aint gonna spam the help channel to ask stuff if i start a game. I give it a go once or twice and quit if it doesnt fit right in to games i have used to..... but... now 5 years later i truly hope for more players in this great game.

Edited by Themystrix
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It doesn't help that gaming in general has simplified and "dumbed down" over the past decade since Wurms original days.

Back then, you expected to read a bit and learn each game individually.

 

Games are either more intuitive now or got rid of the oldschool RPG mechanics - think of how in WoW/Everquest you used to read all the quest dialog etc, now everyone just spams 'next' and you get "collect 10 XXX" at the side of your screen and an arrow above your head of where to go. I've even seen games with an autorun button that transports you to quest areas and hand in npcs...

 

Not that any of that is a bad thing...it makes gaming more accessable to more people which is great.

It just means if there is a barrier to entry, however slight, people will just move on to the next game. So many to choose from, free to download and play, it costs you only the download time to find the next MMO to try.

 

I don't have any solutions, I don't think there are any easy ones for Wurm.

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that video was painful to watch, and if you have zero knowledge of this game via other friends there is no way that tutorial is going to help

 

if you think for one minute someone is going to spend 2 hours slogging through all that crap lade out in the rat maze and then actually decide they like that game you are dreaming

 

the best tutorial is a short informative video tutorial then have the new player skip gv all together cause that empty server does zero for making someone want to play wurm

 

the video does not have to explain every detail of wurm, just go through movement/equipping armor/weapons how to use tools and the crafting window, just enough to get them started

 

Edited by JakeRivers
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