Sign in to follow this  
Mclavin

Updates the current pvp community want

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

There’s some good ideas here and I wanted to pitch in my own opinion and thoughts on the feasibility of each one. These are just my opinion and I’m not making promises or setting deadlines.

 

HotA Removal & Battle Camps

 

This is probably the most technically challenging one. HotA isn’t something easily removed and replaced. This also shifts the dynamic of the PvP server dramatically. That’s not to say that it’s impossible or couldn’t be done, just making sure it’s understood that this would definitely be the most difficult of the suggestions to implement.

 

That said, I do believe there needs to be some reason to roam. The battle camps are a good solution, but bring a concern where it’s likely a single, powerful kingdom would end up taking control over them and farm it just like the current implementation of HotA. Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the battle camps work, but that’s the first thing that comes to mind when the objective is in a static location.

 

Tower Chaining

 

Being able to place a tower wherever you want does seem rather unintuitive. The changes proposed make sense to me, but I also don’t have the background as to why the tower chaining system from a long time ago was removed. If someone could explain why that happened, I’d be far more onboard with this.

 

Horse Rework

 

Hell horses and Unicorns are likely to pose an issue to balance as long as they exist. Whether it’s because they’re stronger in combat, faster, or whatever, it’s a balance nightmare without standardizing them in some way. Disabling the ability to ride hell horses and unicorns seems like the least intrusive method to get mounted speeds back in line.

 

Reduced Local

 

I don’t even need logic for this one, WU servers have tested this as thoroughly as humanly possible and the result of reduced local is always the same: Better PvP. The idea for a dynamic range based on weather conditions and time of day makes it even more immersive. This also opens up opportunities for night assaults or using fog to your advantage. Really good stuff.

 

Epic Armour Changes

 

This one is touchy because of how it affects the Freedom market. Most of the demand for drake and scale comes from the PvP servers. Buffing the other armours too much will render drake and scale obsolete. If not the epic armour changes, I think there’s definitely some room for increasing the movement speed from non-dragon armour, as well as increasing the DR for leather/studded to stay viable.

 

I personally would just like to see HOTA removed as a first step, and throwback to the old goals of like "artifacts" being important, and thus the WL/BL being important and having the religious war be the true endgame, as was the original intent and goal of PvP for many years, however, was left unfinished, but players fought over it anyway.

 

For tower chaining, it was simply one of those Rolf woke up at 4am, decided to add conquering. There is currently a chaining system in place where it has to be within a certain amount of your kingdoms influence or further than x of any kingdoms influence to drop a tower. I don't remember the specific mechanics of the old system as its been many many years, but, conquering was just a spur of the moment "yeah this is how it is" friday morning patch before rolf went on vacation.

 

TBH, the strength of drake/scale simply comes from weight and speed. As for the freedom market, I don't know how to comment on that. PVE in this game is so easy you can kill any mob in the game with a butchering knife, an LMS, and 70 shieldskill/70 fs outside of unique creatures, so i'd probably use nothing but plate in a pve environment personally unless i had money to blow and wanted to simply bling out for rare factor.

 

2 hours ago, madnezz said:

/s Dear Devs, the current pvp community wants you to make wurm into instant gratification COD where everyone is wearing the same armor and all riding the same horses while character development has minimal impact on gameplay, kthxbye /s

 

If you want to increase PvP on Chaos start with reverting every rule change from the Mol Rehan nerf pvp update of 2016 forward. 

 

Prohibit staff from participating on Chaos as players in any capacity, gms should be 100% impartial and professional at all times and not pick and choose which tickets they want to answer, when they want to answer them, and how they want to answer them based on their kingdom affiliations or even have the appearance of doing so. 

 

Permanently remove players that insist on cheating as a way of gameplay and those that benefit from said cheating.  For example, the last raid on Checkers when the mayor account was hijacked, not only should all of the forum hackers been banned, any player that raided Checkers should have been permanently banned too because the mayor was illegally controlled by one of them.  I still have evidence left by the OP when he participated in the theft of an account and moonmetals off a freedom deed whose account info was gleaned from the hacking of our private forums.

 

You've had  just about 2 years of the cheaters & hackers running chaos and the server numbers don't lie.  Before they were given the server by the devs, more often than not there were at least 50+ players on Chaos most of any particular day, as of this minute there are 13 on during peak time in the EU in the middle of the summer.  I am sure the number of deeds has dropped by the same percentage and that is lost revenue no matter how you much lipstick you want to put on this pig.

 

You're a moron. Nobody is asking for your sarcastic statement, or anything remotely close.

 

So, basically, continue to encourage SOTG stacking and teleporting around deeds/avoiding fights and roaming by doing so? Continue to encourage the use of alts to run around and drop wardeeds in influence gaps instead of taking any risk? No thanks. How dense are you? The ENTIRETY of the playerbase, the same group called EVERYONE that wasn't in MRC is still asking for karma teleport to be removed or nerfed further, and twitter alarms to be looked at. Why do you think that is okay? Why did you think it was okay before the patch? Why can't you reverse the logic and say "Server numbers don't lie, we should have reverted all those changes from being in the game, as we had more players when JK had all of its original people active."

 

Those players were punished, as for banning everyone who attended, you want to ban 25+ people, EVERYONE OUTSIDE OF TWO PEOPLE, had no idea what was even happening, kyara forums have proof of that. So not really sure what you're asking for here, those players were banned ASAP, and, as Enki and others can testify, a lot of us gave proof that helped lead their bans.

 

I hate ignorant individuals, you can't even read a graph and put dates together. When we came over, population doubled. When you started losing, your population dwindled, -fast-, as proven by your own forums with its internal drama and leaving posts, the merry band of 7 retards who ruined it for everyone were the final nail in the coffin for your kingdom, even though we wouldve disbanded you the hard way a couple months later. Your kingdom just wasn't capable of playing the game without teleporting around everywhere and scouting with alts, hard facts. This is the wrong thread for this discussion though, so i'm going to leave it here.

Edited by Prophetears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

Thoughts:

 

- How much gear is lost in banks/inventories due to players leaving?

- Epic armor balance seems pretty good, though, despite the challenge of item persistence. Is armor balance by itself a good enough reason to start sinking items?

- Armor/weapons do take damage, and must "continue to be repaired and improved back up to top". That requires player effort, otherwise the items -would- vanish.

 

While you could simply increase the damage rate to gear, forcing players to continually remake gear is repetitive, and that's a bad thing for gameplay (especially given how unfun imping is).

 

To me, the ultimate conclusion of any "sink" idea involving decay is simply doing more chores, which leaves less time for the fun stuff. Meh. :P

 

On the other hand, whoever posted the idea about saccing armor/gear for bonuses of some kind is on a better track, I think.

 

These are all valid points. You're right, the game should be about the fun stuff, not the chores. There's enough grind in the game as it is.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 some good ideas up there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please stop letting the economy ruin PvP fun.  Drake and scale might drop a little in price, but will bring new markets for other moon metal plate/chain armors.  Sucks being the first target in a group battle wearing plate.  Don't really see anyone on freedom wearing new armors either since doesn't work again trolls I'm guessing which is just screwing over the PvEers too.

Edited by nicedreams
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Tower Chaining

 

Being able to place a tower wherever you want does seem rather unintuitive. The changes proposed make sense to me, but I also don’t have the background as to why the tower chaining system from a long time ago was removed. If someone could explain why that happened, I’d be far more onboard with this.

 

Really, because Rolf. Nobody liked the change then, and nobody does now.

 

 

 

 

Here's the release notes:

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2010#101018_Kingdom_proximity_changes

 

Edited by Xallo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Disabling the ability to ride hell horses and unicorns seems like the least intrusive method to get mounted speeds back in line.

 

not everyone has hours to ride one direction and disabling this is more likely to see people going out less often

 

not to mention the stupid equiped zombie trolls that will go back to dominating

 

if riding across local in 3 seconds is a problem I'm not sure how shortening local and allowing normal horses to cross it in 2 is going to help

Edited by SmeJack
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty new to PvP so don't feel that I can give much quality input on specifics, but I do support changes that will increase PvP.

 

Something I do know more about is staff and tickets. I was a CA/CM for several years so I've responded to or just read a lot of tickets. Sometimes the delay in getting a response was due to the submitter insisting on talking to staff who "aren't part of xyz" kingdom". Sometimes those staff weren't online, or were busy on other tickets, etc. And frankly, from the tone of some of the tickets I wouldn't blame GMs for taking their time to get around to answering.

As a CM i responded to pvp tickets to get more info for GMs, but the submitter would insist on staff with pvp experience.

I've also seen pvpers complain that devs and other staff "don't pvp so how could they understand mechanics."

 

I certainly understand being leery of staff acting badly, but if you insist that staff can't PVP, don't ###### if they can't take care of your tickets or that they don't understand PVP mechanics.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I strongly disagree with disallowing mounting hell horses.  I said its a barrier into pvp, but only because it requires such high taming, as well as 31 bc which isn't new player friendly.  I don't personally have the patience anymore to ride across a map the size of russia on a horse that will randomly go 20 km/h with rare/supreme gear.  I get that people don't like the ability to respond, so maybe on pvp make horses/hell horses/unicorns all have the same max speed that regular horses have, hell horses get the bonus of always going max speed instead of hell horses going 5km/h or whatever faster.  And it's not just that people will go back to using champs, it will go back to zombie priest meta dragging around champ/whatever trolls with polearms, except now they will be overpowered bloodthirst polearms because only epic had bloodthirst fixed

 

8 hours ago, Sindusk said:

I don’t even need logic for this one, WU servers have tested this as thoroughly as humanly possible and the result of reduced local is always the same: Better PvP

 

but were those wu servers the same size as chaos/elevation is currently?  reduced local might work on a small server, but on a massive server especially when trying to get people away from organized pvp with a centralized location (hota) and closer to randomized roaming across the entire map, how is that gonna help find people unless the population suddenly has 100-200 players on the server?  I get that things can be trialed out but based on history "trial" and "test" ends up becoming left as "feature"

 

im all for the hota/tower/epic armor changes though

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 this thread and ideas..

 

Long time eve playere heee and i strongly agree with partial look distruction will keep the market going strong..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

but were those wu servers the same size as chaos/elevation is currently?  reduced local might work on a small server, but on a massive server especially when trying to get people away from organized pvp with a centralized location (hota) and closer to randomized roaming across the entire map, how is that gonna help find people unless the population suddenly has 100-200 players on the server?  I get that things can be trialed out but based on history "trial" and "test" ends up becoming left as "feature"

 

They weren't the same size as chaos. The maps were usually 1/16th or 1/8th the size of chaos and elevation, so you have a point.

 

However, it's been proven time and time again that having reduced local ranges leads to combat more often. When the distance where you can scout an enemy is so high, you have so much room to bolt away from conflict. By reducing the gap to close in response, it's easier to identify a target and close that gap, beginning an engagement. If I'm not mistaken, this is what players want: more engagements.

 

I'm also curious how you feel about only having a reduced local range during the night and fog. Would you be interested in seeing night time and fog provide lower local ranges, while the existing daytime local range remains the same?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

However, it's been proven time and time again that having reduced local ranges leads to combat more often. When the distance where you can scout an enemy is so high, you have so much room to bolt away from conflict. By reducing the gap to close in response, it's easier to identify a target and close that gap, beginning an engagement. If I'm not mistaken, this is what players want: more engagements.

 

But, if you reduce the local size, even with slower horses doesn't that just enhance the ability to bolt away?  The smaller the local range is the more paths one has to escape and the harder it will be to refind them

 

10 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

I'm also curious how you feel about only having a reduced local range during the night and fog. Would you be interested in seeing night time and fog provide lower local ranges, while the existing daytime local range remains the same?

 

Doesn't sound like any balance change at that point and more an attempt at immersion.  That kind of immersion works great in visual based games, but I don't see it working very well in a text based game like wurm without drastic visual changes, as is it can be extremely hard to find someone that's literally a few tiles away from you in thick trees especially taking into account the server/positioning lag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

But, if you reduce the local size, even with slower horses doesn't that just enhance the ability to bolt away?  The smaller the local range is the more paths one has to escape and the harder it will be to refind them

 

Reduced local range gives players an easier time to get into archery range and begin to dehorse their target. This also gives a party options to box in a target without having to create a massive distance between players.

 

8 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

Doesn't sound like any balance change at that point and more an attempt at immersion.  That kind of immersion works great in visual based games, but I don't see it working very well in a text based game like wurm without drastic visual changes, as is it can be extremely hard to find someone that's literally a few tiles away from you in thick trees especially taking into account the server/positioning lag

 

It at least gives a way for players to test the changes without being absolutely chained to them. If someone prefers the higher local range, they can hunt during the day. For those who want the lower ranges, they can hunt at night. These types of systems can sometimes sound good in theory but end up horrible in practice. It's just a matter of trying it out and seeing if it works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

Reduced local range gives players an easier time to get into archery range and begin to dehorse their target.

 

The archery range nerf created the issue with horses to begin with its just a cycle of issues caused by nerfs and it keeps rolling but I'm not sure any of it matters if you already have a server with 10 people who cant find each other with the current local size, maybe focus on ideas that will draw players and grow the base before you make it harder for them to stumble into one another

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why you need to travel across the map in 15 minutes just to respond to every situation that pops up, if I had it my way we'd have no horses at all and return to day treks. 

 

On WU server with reduced local it wasn't about the size of the map, it could be chaos size, it was the time you had to snap into action, I don't see how it being 80 tiles and it's better just the fact you know somebody  ran away at 43 kpmh than 40 tiles away, where your more likely to actually spot the target anyway, it worked very well on all servers I tried, I don't see why it wouldn't on a bigger map, I could understand on ele since it's flat abs you run any direction but on chaos your more limited, I've tried it and I really don't think knowing somebody is 80 tiles away is better than knowing they are 40. Karma teleport after local drop just needs a CD. 

 

And ten people don't struggle to find each other, pretty clear where people are but if somebody was working on a chain of towers you'd know where to go, fact is with 80 tiles you need to be dumb and afk at the same time to get caught. Lol

 

To me it seems one side is theory and other is year of testing on live WU servers. 

Edited by Mclavin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point was more that you want to encourage roaming and spread people out rather than being hotacentric but at the same time make it harder to see other people, you need the population to support the change for it to have a desirable effect

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Prophetears said:

So, basically, continue to encourage SOTG stacking and teleporting around deeds/avoiding fights and roaming by doing so? Continue to encourage the use of alts to run around and drop wardeeds in influence gaps instead of taking any risk? No thanks. How dense are you? The ENTIRETY of the playerbase, the same group called EVERYONE that wasn't in MRC is still asking for karma teleport to be removed or nerfed further, and twitter alarms to be looked at. Why do you think that is okay? Why did you think it was okay before the patch? Why can't you reverse the logic and say "Server numbers don't lie, we should have reverted all those changes from being in the game, as we had more players when JK had all of its original people active."

 

Yes, I always argued to keep SOTG the way it was and we teleported to fight incoming raid parties not to avoid fights, which is pvp.  Yes, alts discovering places to put deeds also encouraged pvp because you had to deal with us in your backyard whether it was convenient or not.  I am not dense at all, I just see the game very differently than insta-grat kids that only play wurm for a few minutes at a time because they miniscule attention spans.  Your entirety of the playerbase is 12 people during peak time as opposed to the hundreds of players that were on Chaos when we were active there.  Both karma teleport and twitter alarms promoted pvp, you knew people were at your deed so you could get there to fight them, the epitome of player vs player.  It is OK, even though it is not the COD type of gameplay that you lot insist upon imposing on Wurm pvp, which has proven to be an abject failure using server numbers and subscriptions as a measuring stick.  There were more active players when both JK and MR were on chaos.   Your group, using any means necessary, drove away over 150 active accounts.  I know you think you are god's gift to pvp and but outside of your sphere of fanboi-ism we can plainly see how you managed to decimate both the epic and chaos populations by not playing fairly to say the least.  Wurm pvp would thrive again if your ilk would go back to playing call of duty.

 

7 hours ago, Prophetears said:

Those players were punished, as for banning everyone who attended, you want to ban 25+ people, EVERYONE OUTSIDE OF TWO PEOPLE, had no idea what was even happening, kyara forums have proof of that. So not really sure what you're asking for here, those players were banned ASAP, and, as Enki and others can testify, a lot of us gave proof that helped lead their bans.

 

Yes, everyone from JK who was in local of that Checkers raid should have been banned as they were raiding a compromised deed that surely more than 2 people knew about.  Of course the JK forums wont show any of this but a transcript of all of your various voice comms would paint a totally different picture if it existed.  

 

 

7 hours ago, Prophetears said:

Your kingdom just wasn't capable of playing the game without teleporting around everywhere and scouting with alts, hard facts.

 

Teleporting and scouting were legal ways to play the game and we unabashedly played within that framework, overnight changes(one day you can defend your deeds and the next you can not)  coupled with your propensity to lead a gang of cheaters gave us no choice but to pack it in.  How many of you were punished for dropping into mines and stealing our boats?  Boats returned to us by a GM with your names still on them.

 

My point is still valid, all these ill advised rules changes since 2016 have only shown to diminish the pvp playerbase to record low numbers.

Edited by madnezz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for everything. I’m a bit doubtful on local but we can try it out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some comments are getting off topic. 

We (multiple if not all active kingdom reps on chaos) discussed our top 5 changes we wanted considered as we;

1. want to promote PVP,

2. encourage new players or new to pvp player to be able to more easily get in the game and 

3. Possibly entice old pvp’ers back into the game who may have left due to some of the aspects we’ve discussed. 

 

Also, I think a reminder that we are talking about these changes happening to chaos. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 to most of the changes. Not sure about horses though, I agree having HH as requirement sucks and they seem overpowered, but also removing ability to ride them just for that also looks kinda meh, does any other solution comes to mind?. Tower chaining also still can cause problem from smaller kingdoms by large ones like TC and MR used to be, maybe in combination with removing caping, you would need to bash and rebuild tower if you want to claim land, forces people to stay out for longer thus increasing chance for encounter on no mans land...

@SinduskNot that is much related to this thread. There is suggestion about kingdom missions for consumables as rewards or saccing for more useful deed bonuses(like 70,90ql rakes for farming bonuses, armour for dr bonus, weapons for cr bonus), it's either by it self or hidden somewhere in personal goals thread... I think that's the better way for item sinks, also new personal goal system have potential to be used as item sink. For PvP you can maybe somehow sink part of gear to towers so guards are stronger?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the World of Warcraft experience.

At times, when pvp in WoW were mostly in open world (first years), the best pvp spots were in places, where both factions were forced to coexist (doing quests or just farming).

That's couse both factions villages were close to each other, and also couse people could get there fast and easily from other parts of the world. And all people needed to went through this sooner or later.

You could do pvp for few hours, go to sleep, and after 8 hours, after login back, you still saw people fighting.

 

So, in my opinion, despite the mechanics changes, there should be some sort of merge of pvp servers and devs should bet on some smaller map where people would be forced to coexist.

Then you don't need to create pvp, it's just happens.

Edited by Wilczan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, madnezz said:

 

Yes, I always argued to keep SOTG the way it was and we teleported to fight incoming raid parties not to avoid fights, which is pvp.  Yes, alts discovering places to put deeds also encouraged pvp because you had to deal with us in your backyard whether it was convenient or not.  I am not dense at all, I just see the game very differently than insta-grat kids that only play wurm for a few minutes at a time because they miniscule attention spans.  Your entirety of the playerbase is 12 people during peak time as opposed to the hundreds of players that were on Chaos when we were active there.  Both karma teleport and twitter alarms promoted pvp, you knew people were at your deed so you could get there to fight them, the epitome of player vs player.  It is OK, even though it is not the COD type of gameplay that you lot insist upon imposing on Wurm pvp, which has proven to be an abject failure using server numbers and subscriptions as a measuring stick.  There were more active players when both JK and MR were on chaos.   Your group, using any means necessary, drove away over 150 active accounts.  I know you think you are god's gift to pvp and but outside of your sphere of fanboi-ism we can plainly see how you managed to decimate both the epic and chaos populations by not playing fairly to say the least.  Wurm pvp would thrive again if your ilk would go back to playing call of duty.

 

 

Yes, everyone from JK who was in local of that Checkers raid should have been banned as they were raiding a compromised deed that surely more than 2 people knew about.  Of course the JK forums wont show any of this but a transcript of all of your various voice comms would paint a totally different picture if it existed.  

 

 

 

Teleporting and scouting were legal ways to play the game and we unabashedly played within that framework, overnight changes(one day you can defend your deeds and the next you can not)  coupled with your propensity to lead a gang of cheaters gave us no choice but to pack it in.  How many of you were punished for dropping into mines and stealing our boats?  Boats returned to us by a GM with your names still on them.

 

My point is still valid, all these ill advised rules changes since 2016 have only shown to diminish the pvp playerbase to record low numbers.

Dude you are completely out of bounds on your own sanity.

 

There is not some vast conspiracy against you and your kingdom, you simply took advantage of bad mechanics that have since been changed and your kingdoms attitude and reputation overtime made a great deal of enemies. In fact, I had a small group of my own people completely uninterested in Wurm at the time, RETURNED TO THE GAME TO KILL YOUR KINGDOM (or at least help) because of how disgusting it was. I believe I may have even been at that Checkers raid, and if there was a vast conspiracy against it, I wasn't in on it.

 

With that being said, this is the last post I will make on that subject, because you are clearly derailing a thread on pvp changes, when you have no intention of ever pvping again.

Edited by FranktheTank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this