Mclavin

Updates the current pvp community want

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from discord about local

 

[12:39 PM] prophedumbass: i dont see it having much impact, so i dont care either way
 
 
 
[12:39 PM] prophedumbass: id play the game the same way if local was 30 tiles or if it was 70
 
 
 
[12:39 PM] prophedumbass: as i did on WU
 
 
 
[1:19 PM] prophedumbass: meant to add
 
 
 
[1:19 PM] prophedumbass: existing problem with local right now
 
 
 
[1:19 PM] prophedumbass: is that you can getaway super easy
 
 
 
[1:20 PM] prophedumbass: its less about the local range and more about other mechanics
 
 
 
[1:20 PM] prophedumbass: e.x. you get someone in local 70 tiles away, you know youre good distance
 
 
 
[1:20 PM] prophedumbass: you lose them for all of a split second and you can tp home
 
 
 
[1:20 PM] prophedumbass: in that scenario
 
 
 
[1:20 PM] prophedumbass: what discourages pvp
 
 
 
[1:20 PM] prophedumbass: local or the tp out in the .5 seconds you have nobody in local
Edited by Prophetears

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I'd love to hear others thoughts on the pros and cons of removing locate soul entirely.

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What if Locate Soul only revealed corpses, but included corpses in inventory or other containers?

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It sounds like people only want it for finding people in local.  We have pendulums for that.  So why not just remove it entirely?

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

What if Locate Soul only revealed corpses, but included corpses in inventory or other containers?

From our discord discussions, I think everyone would be okay with that if thats the route they took.

 

They simply want to prevent people sitting there and spamming locate on everyone they can before leaving deed, a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea.

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14 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

It sounds like people only want it for finding people in local.  We have pendulums for that.  So why not just remove it entirely?

 

Finding corpses is a very useful tool by itself, although that applies more to PvE deaths. For PvP, however, I could see using it to immediately find the location of a fight after a death tab pops.

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Considering a different idea, and would like opinions on how you feel the "locate meta" might shift because of it:

 

First, removal of body/player Nolocate casting. Nolocate would be an enchant for jewelry only.

 

Nolocate would no longer be a power check to see if Locate > Nolocate. Instead, when located, the power of your Nolocate would give you immunity to further locates for a given duration. For examples sake, we'll say 3 seconds per power. At 100 Nolocate on a ring, you would be immune to Locate Soul for 5 minutes. The player being located would have no indication that they were located, aside from their jewelry decreasing in Nolocate power.

 

This eliminates the triangulation method, as enemies would be required to wait a significant time frame between each locate.

 

This creates an interesting predicament where a kingdom might actually opt to locate their own players in order to give them immunity to locates for a trap. While this is interesting, one of the concerns might be that a player would set a timer to locate themselves constantly in order to remain immune. If this were to happen, it wouldn't be too difficult to implement some variation to the timer (4-6 minutes instead of always 5) to make it more difficult to accomplish.

 

On the flip side, if an enemy gets a locate on you, they now have a rough estimate of the timer on your immunity, and can hit you with locates around the time your cooldown expires in order to ensure you cannot block them. This can then be counter-mindgamed by using lower power Nolocates to ensure that the timer doesn't match the enemy expectations, allowing you to re-locate yourself and re-align your timer back to the way you want it to be.

 

What do you think of this type of system? Does Locate Soul become worthless? Is being able to locate someone with absolute accuracy if you know the window to do so too good?

 

Also, I apologize for derailing the thread into locate soul discussion. Although in fairness, it is a PvP related mechanic.

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to be honest, any kind of locate thats further than 200-500 tiles is too much. I wanna roam at panda, i locate Snoo from 2k tiles away, i conclude he's ofdeed, i do go roam, otherwise i conclude he is not offdeed, i do not go out. Remove locate spell completely imo

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I could go for Sindusks idea with a limitation of 499 tiles.

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I've just finished reading the thread up to this point, I really like most of it!

I'm not sure about nolo locate soul, but currently on epic it seems quite useless to me anyway if you have a body nolo on yourself - which is very easy to have permanently.

On mounts: I would be glad to see the different types kept available, could find a way to balance them out tweaking strengths and weaknesses.

Also definitely positive with the tower chaining and removal of tower capping.

We need the current hota gone, and some replacement incentive that is not tied to any given location on a server.

I'm really eager to see the first changes and I hope it will be beneficial to increase the PVP population.

I've no idea about the Chaos armour situation, but on Epic the armour changes introduced some variability.

 

Edited by Jaz

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On 7/11/2018 at 4:08 PM, Grumpysmith said:

@Sinduskre: sink.  In the majority of the games I've played its a container (space ship, sailing ship, tank, etc.) that gets blown up and is completely lost or some % is salvagable.  Here it is the character that is destroyed and recreated completely.  The container armor is just dropped to the ground. I don't see any good way to assess loss based on that.

 

However, loss based on a very small % chance that a blow will shatter or damage an item beyond repair should be feasible and would mimic real life. As well in RL nothing is truly repairable forever.  Metal weakens with age, with use, with repairs.  It thins due to rust, gets brittle due to bending and welding (which is what blacksmithing does).

 

The game already tracks damage due to use and non-use for each created piece in the game.  Set a lifetime damage  total where once an item has passed it, it can no longer be repaired.  The metal can be smelted back into usable lumps, leather and cloth just get tossed.  It is insane that I can find a boat or maul at 99% damage, click repair a couple of minutes later I have a perfectly good item.  I should get a message that says "Sadly the item was too damaged and crumbled into dust". In this way during a fight the armor and weapon stays intact, taking damage and protecting as well as it can until the fight is over.  Once over it is determined if the piece is too damaged to be repaired.  Would you risk your life on a breast plate that had 3 2" spear holes that had a patch placed over them?

 

Stating for the record that, as someone who has not only played for years, but actually pays for premium every month, I will quit instantly if anything even remotely similar to this goes into effect, and I'm not the only one.

Edited by Delacroix

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5 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Interesting point, how many of these 2300 accounts are actually paying customers?

 

https://jenn001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/paying.html

 

 

A lot less than you would think. It has never been a good metric of actual population. Between alts, priest alts, and paying for accounts in Silver the game population could honestly be way lower.

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How many people that actively live on Chaos, that *aren't* in your kingdom, did you actually talk to to come up with these suggestions?

 

The suggested changes are NOT something "the PvP community" wants, because that would include more than just the people in your kingdom and its puppet. Most of these suggestions (I can tell) are just the ones your group of friends came up with that would help turn the tides in your favor, classic Wurm-Forum PvP. I don't see any of these helping the gameplay or playstyle-Meta currently associated with Chaos in any fashion as none of these changes would actually DO anything for the better.

 

There needs to be a type of account sink, so that high-end accounts are periodically and rarely removed from the game entirely. Bring back Permadeath Champ system. Remove HOTA, PMK's, and maybe MoonMetals but I don't think MM's affect too much. Bring Wild back to how it was prior to the Freedom conversion and you'll have yourself a better game overall that is enjoyed by more people, and is accessible to all.

 

Of course, those types of changes don't push any particular agenda or put any other kingdom ahead of another, mechanically or by Meta, so I'm eagerly awaiting the retaliation. :)

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3 hours ago, whereami said:

Chaos isn't Epic, kid. Go back home if you want an easy ride.

Easy ride is a safety escape to freedom with safety items storage.

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8 hours ago, whereami said:

There needs to be a type of account sink, so that high-end accounts are periodically and rarely removed from the game entirely. Bring back Permadeath Champ system.

 

I don't mind a permadeath Champ system (a step to removing champs entirely, perhaps), but the way to deal with high-end accounts isn't to remove them, but to lower their replacement cost, such that a newbie can develop a near-high-end account in a few months.

 

Epic already does this to an extent, and intensifying the effect would be simple enough.

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tbh i dont think putting a blanket over the issues is going to "fix/change" pvp server for the better. putting caps on things like armor and locates making it more "fair" for everyone kinda puts a wrench in the idea of progress imo at least. Instead of imposing more limits and caps on players in pvp maybe we should think about restructuring the way armor works in general for example why not just remove movement speed and make the only difference in armor its ability for damage reduction. this would easily translate over to pve as well and eliminate the need for more changes between pve and pvp servers.

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17 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

I don't mind a permadeath Champ system (a step to removing champs entirely, perhaps), but the way to deal with high-end accounts isn't to remove them, but to lower their replacement cost, such that a newbie can develop a near-high-end account in a few months.

 

Epic already does this to an extent, and intensifying the effect would be simple enough.

Terrible idea. Wurm is not minecraft and never should be easy to create a near high end account(not to say that it couldn't be tuned up in some areas, like the skill needed to compete at a decent level in pvp). Just make selling accounts against the rules and ban future account sells, old account would be slowly leaving as new accounts are created.

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@Sindusk

 

just make sure you keep whatever random ideas you guys come up with in this thread to the servers they belong to and dont have them randomly end up on servers they were never intended to affect.

such as the 1 days initial karma cooldown that was clearly stated to only be in effect on pvp servers yet somehow ended up on freedom, which initially was believed to be a bug even by another dev, yet confirmed to be intended because Budda didnt feel like adding a line of code to check for the server. good work i guess?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Arium said:

such as the 1 days initial karma cooldown that was clearly stated to only be in effect on pvp servers yet somehow ended up on freedom, which initially was believed to be a bug even by another dev, yet confirmed to be intended because Budda didnt feel like adding a line of code to check for the server. good work i guess?

 

quite possibly one of the most inconvenient changes for freedom ever

 

 

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2 hours ago, Maximillian said:

Terrible idea. Wurm is not minecraft and never should be easy to create a near high end account(not to say that it couldn't be tuned up in some areas, like the skill needed to compete at a decent level in pvp). Just make selling accounts against the rules and ban future account sells, old account would be slowly leaving as new accounts are created.

 

Wurm may not be Minecraft, but neither does it have many players. Right now anyone interested in being competitive at PvP has to buy an account. That's the real problem. Artificially masking that problem by banning account sales will only further diminish the player base, and create extra work for "account enforcers".

 

Bottom line: trying to force players to "do the right thing" against their own interests is a terrible idea, and is best used only as a last resort. Much better is creating an environment in which "the right thing" coincides with players' best interests; that should be the first choice.

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On 7/11/2018 at 7:18 PM, Mclavin said:

To avoid a reset of the map, current deeds not linked to a chain of towers will have increased upkeep until chained.

 

If the chain is broken between deeds already chained, would that increase upkeep as well? 

 

On 7/11/2018 at 7:18 PM, Mclavin said:

The traited regular horse with gear will be capped to 30.

 

I'd rather not have a cap, would be like boat chase. It never ends! But I'm all for disabling mounting of HH and unicorn.

Edited by Sharkin

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It seems a lot of the aftershock isn't being thought about or fleshed out, and that's ok it's just another part of the discussion

 

-If you disable hellhorses, champ animal armies will return, what's the solution to that?

 

-As sharkin said, any cap to anything will be immediately reached and just be like the old boat fights; no ground gained or lost

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2 hours ago, Sharkin said:

 

If the chain is broken between deeds already chained, would that increase upkeep as well? 


I think if that encourages players to go out and rebuild their towers in contested land, then maybe, but originally no it was just going to be for deeds that were wayy out there and nobody would chain and opt to disband instead. [i had 2 of mine in mind]

But maybe more convo on that, I think a small increase wouldn't hurt if the chain was broke..

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