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Mclavin

Updates the current pvp community want

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by now i am guessing he is one of wimbles forum alts, either way, people that took part in this discussion thread are actively playing on chaos, do you?

right...

 

so what makes more sense, taking suggestions from people who are involved in current game mechanic problems and play the game with passion, or from a guy whos house got stolen and now he rambles about everything cause he had to load stuff into his boat for the first time in years and get off to freedom?

 

xoxo

Edited by Quicktor
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2 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

by now i am guessing he is one of wimbles forum alts, either way, people that took part in this discussion thread are actively playing on chaos, do you?

right...

 

so what makes more sense, taking suggestions from people who are involved in current game mechanic problems and play the game with passion, or from a guy whos house got stolen and now he rambles about everything cause he had to load stuff into his boat for the first time in years and get off to freedom?

 

xoxo

I do not know who it is, but it is unlikely Wimble is legitimately this spicy.

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2 hours ago, platinumteef said:

 

you do realize the only reason epic > freedom happened was because of players crying right? in the original post, there was no such thing as epic > freedom

it was freedom > epic only

 

Whatever the reason for the Epic -> Freedom transfer, that was introduced in the same update as the good changes to Epic. The impression I had was that because of the drastic changes to the skill system, it was then or never for allowing Epic accounts to move to Freedom.

 

I didn't get the impression the devs were trying to kill Chaos....

 

 

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4 hours ago, Haseroth said:

I personally did not stop playing because of epic changes being brought into chaos, so your reasoning feels insanely bias'd and it feels as though you are simply trying to turn it into a epic vs chaos debacle. Reason why i personally quit is because the devs had stopped speaking to us, the changes were bare and so far and few inbetween, it felt as though they had abandonned pvp. Not because i didn't like epic people.

 

Insanely Biased? How so? Because I don't want your ####ty Epic mechanics on my beautiful Chaos server that has dealt just fine without them for 10+ years?

You left because your players made your own game ####, by suggesting #### changes to it be made.

Hell you even admit it in your text basically. You say that they stopped making changes to the game for you. All you Epic'ers want to do is ##### and moan when you think a mechanic is too hard or doesn't work in your favor.

And now, you have a #### game server, which no one wants to play on. Hence you are now here, on MY server, encroaching on my home and trying to destroy it.

 

Now personally I don't think THAT is fair one bit, and I don't think an ounce of merit should be given to Epic'ers that think they know what's "good for pvp" since you've already destroyed not just one server but an entire CLUSTER of 4, Elevation + Home servers.

 

You've already killed the game off enough that NONE of the experienced Chaos players or their respective accounts want anything to do with Chaos, because it's been screwed so hard since 2015 when all these Epic kiddos came over and started suggesting "changes for the good of PvP".

 

The moment I see a genuine opinion here from someone who has played EXTENSIVELY, on CHAOS, for more than 2 measly years, I'll consider what they have to say, and I can only hope and pray the Devs take that same notion for the sake and well being of the server.

 

 
Quote

I didn't get the impression the devs were trying to kill Chaos....

You didn't get the impression then, but what were the ramifications? Take a look at the active population and tell me, I'll wait.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

EDIT: Thread title needs to be changed to "Chaos PvP updates the Epic community wants"

Edited by whereami
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41 minutes ago, whereami said:

The moment I see a genuine opinion here from someone who has played EXTENSIVELY, on CHAOS, for more than 2 measly years, I'll consider what they have to say,

 

That moment already happened

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/164066-updates-the-current-pvp-community-want/&do=findComment&comment=1677274

 

two of the sides in this debate are weird, one wants to 'make good changes to fix pvp and bring people back' but anyone who isn't on the server is told to pipe down if they disagree with the changes that might otherwise have actually brought them back.... the other side is so angry they are creating 'facts' just to argue instead of offering alternative ideas lol who knew people only started complaining about having to buy accounts to compete when epic ruined chaos

 

Edited by SmeJack
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35 minutes ago, whereami said:

You didn't get the impression then, but what were the ramifications? Take a look at the active population and tell me, I'll wait.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Huh? What I saw was a lot of people leave Epic for Freedom/Chaos (including, notably, the OP). We do have Freedomers popping over to Epic, and a few folks from Chaos, but the trend has been the other way.

 

Really, though, I don't think this is an Epic versus Chaos thing. To me, the old timers sound -bored-, and neither Epic or Chaos can resolve that.

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11 hours ago, platinumteef said:

also i can't help but feel that we've gotten pretty far off track with what the original discussion was supposed to be about, at this point its just a bunch of rambling back and forth. My suggestion would be if the devs want real feedback on pvp AS A WHOLE, create a thread with a comprehensive list of bulleted points and ask for feedback/suggestions on it, if you're serious about it. 

 

Nearly all PvP discussion winds up off track, which only makes it harder for us to identify WHAT needs changing

 

Everyone has their own thoughts, and their own opinions about it, and the longer any discussion goes the worse it gets. 

 

What I will take the time to say is if you disagree with something, throwing around insults gets nowhere and almost guarantees you will be ignored, calling other people pathetic, or throwing kvk stuff around will give us reason to discount your input because you're not discussing any mechanic, you're just throwing insults based on who the person is or their kingdom affiliation.

 

If you do wish for your feedback to be considered, moving away from identity politics will greatly help

 

As sindusk has already said, a few projects are in the works, and we'll get the ball rolling and work through them, ensuring there is plenty of space for CIVIL discussion

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41 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

 

That moment already happened

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/164066-updates-the-current-pvp-community-want/&do=findComment&comment=1677274

 

two of the sides in this debate are weird, one wants to 'make good changes to fix pvp and bring people back' but anyone who isn't on the server is told to pipe down if they disagree with the changes that might otherwise have actually brought them back.... the other side is so angry they are creating 'facts' just to argue instead of offering alternative ideas lol who knew people only started complaining about having to buy accounts to compete when epic ruined chaos

 

 

Good to point out Sme, and while I do respect Kabil and the time he has spent in the game, his comment was really only about the HOTA minigame as far as I can tell unless I'm missing something.

Also that is one singular person of.. how many Chaos vets are there? I can point you to at least 40 to 50 people, that no longer play on Chaos because it was ruined long ago. They've lost interest.

Maybe instead of appealing to the playerbase of another, dead server cluster, we should worry about what changes might bring more vets and long time players back to the Chaos stage. As that is where the only real option is for getting players back to PvP with the undermining and fizzling-out of the new-player influx currently lies.

 

I like your side-sliding terminology there ;) "Facts" aren't created, they are brought up and mentioned to remind people with poorly thought-out and fallicized logic that they are incorrect, and missing part of the picture. No one is creating any facts here. I'm just pulling them up for you to look at. Like they say, if the truth hurts, DO something about it.

 

4 hours ago, Quicktor said:

by now i am guessing he is one of wimbles forum alts, either way, people that took part in this discussion thread are actively playing on chaos, do you?

right...

 

so what makes more sense, taking suggestions from people who are involved in current game mechanic problems and play the game with passion, or from a guy whos house got stolen and now he rambles about everything cause he had to load stuff into his boat for the first time in years and get off to freedom?

 

xoxo

 

Just cause you haven't been around Chaos long enough to know who I am, doesn't mean I don't play on the Chaos server. I have always played on Chaos and if you did any research at all to look past the tip of your nose, you would figure that out quite easily.

 

5 hours ago, platinumteef said:

 

MR got checked by people that actually knew how to pvp and weren't stuck in the stone age of Wurm pvp

 

and please, lets not for one second pretend chaos is the only server bleeding out, the overall population of freedom hits nearly under 200 nightly topkek, and thats with people and their alts logged in, we going to blame that on the epic bois as well?

 

 

 

If you consider changes made as the result of an influx of players from Epic with loud mouths to be the "advancement and progression" of the Chaos server then so be it. I can't change your mind on that nor do I care to try.

My point is that most of us were happy to play here and keep playing here until some really #### changes were brought about that no one but the Epic kiddos asked for, and because the losing kingdoms had all the Developer attention and bias on their side, it was implemented to the detriment of the game.

It's been stated many times, but MRC would still be around if we had any desire. Or at least the players from it would be. But who wants to play a game against its own Devs? That's a stupid game that you'll never win, and after 2 years we'd had enough.

Edited by whereami
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9 minutes ago, whereami said:

Just cause you haven't been around Chaos long enough to know who I am, doesn't mean I don't play on the Chaos server. I have always played on Chaos and if you did any research at all to look past the tip of your nose, you would figure that out quite easily.

 

9 minutes ago, whereami said:

It's been stated many times, but MRC would still be around if we had any desire. Or at least the players from it would be

 

:thinking:

 

I don't get the hostility.  Many epic boys actually started on wild?  Many people in the kingdom you despise only played on wild/chaos?  Many play both?  Many have played both/chaos for years?  I don't even care for some of these players but they are the ones that are actually populating the server while you stamp your feet.

 

Instead of crying bias or insulting the devs or being so hostile to everyone, try to construct a useful post with actual ideas that you genuinely feel could improve pvp?  Maybe an actual normal conversation would lead to changes you and others might support

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It's about updates that current pvp community wants.

 

Need to remember that there are many hibernated accounts on Epic, accounts of people who left like 2 years ago. They didn't crossed to Chaos (there were no such possibility at that time except buying new account or starting new one) or went freedom.

 

It would be good to consider what those players wanted, to also bring them back, not only current community. To see that, need to go back to posts for 2 years ago, and their suggestions.

Not saying that current players want something else. I'am sure that most of suggestions are the same.

 

If Epic has so many good mechanics, that people from Chaos wants, why focusing on moving those mechanics to Chaos? Maybe focus on Epic then or merge everything in some way.

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2 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

If Epic has so many good mechanics, that people from Chaos wants, why focusing on moving those mechanics to Chaos? Maybe focus on Epic then or merge everything in some way.

 

Well not everything is good on Epic, personally i hate the new timers for crafting etc for example. One of the reasons i dipped out as soon as the transfers came around really....
The armour changes are really nice to get more people into pvp without having to spend 80€ on a drakeset, easier and cheaper and it doesn't take that much time to make a decent set of chain to fight in.

1 hour ago, whereami said:

Now personally I don't think THAT is fair one bit, and I don't think an ounce of merit should be given to Epic'ers that think they know what's "good for pvp" since you've already destroyed not just one server but an entire CLUSTER of 4, Elevation + Home servers.

 

Not to be like that but if you loved how the old chaos was why didn't you stick around and take the fight?  It gets a bit pathetic when you sit here bashing players from Epic instead of contributing to the discussion about what is needed to be changed in order to get pvp and Wurm as a whole going again.

I mean you say the Epic players know nothing yet they managed to drive you off the server if understand it correct..

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The above topics of karma teleport and current influence and who plays where or when and how long is irrelevant to this thread.

Thread lays out it's goal/topic, devs are answering/talking, make a new thread for anything outside of this. 

The ideas that stem from the original suggestions such as karma cool down on leaving local and the stemming effects are fine, but as retro said stay on topic and just discus the ideas, we can't help anything else.

Mod should clear the above up.

Edited by Mclavin
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tbh characteristics should have 0 impact on pvp combat so new players can get into it. you can get the bare minimum standard of 70/70/70 combat skills in like a week if you have some guidance 

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14 minutes ago, Kabill said:

tbh characteristics should have 0 impact on pvp combat so new players can get into it. you can get the bare minimum standard of 70/70/70 combat skills in like a week if you have some guidance 

I like this.

 

I mean, I still like resetting epic and making it like Wurm Classic in my Epic 180 thread.

 

But I also like this. 

 

EDIT:

Thought about it more, I kinda like having accounts that are "scarier" than others. I remember back in the day shaking in my boots when Maincorpse was staring me down in local because he was a G. Not sure if everyone being on relatively the same playing field offers the same return.

Edited by FranktheTank

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This thread has degenerated into name-calling and KvK, rather than constructive discussion.  If you can't post a constructive response, don't post anything at all - this is not the place for forum PvP, and the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.

 

If this continues, this thread will be locked, and there may be forum sanctions to go with it.

 

Pandalet (Assistant Lead Forum Moderator)

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On 7/16/2018 at 10:30 AM, nicedreams said:

So far the only people complaining don't even PVP.  Hate when people like JakeRivers have to give their input into something they are not part of.  Dude has to make sure to comment in about every thread posted.

 

The reason we are posting is because we want to get back to pvp but not until our suggestions are addressed as well, see my earlier post.  The changes to pvp since 2016 and other nefarious influences have only succeeded in dropping the pvp population by ~75%.  If you want more players to pvp with you need to include us too.

Edited by madnezz
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Karma teleport isn't coming back, TC isn't leaving, so list your changes outside of that.

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3 hours ago, FranktheTank said:

Thought about it more, I kinda like having accounts that are "scarier" than others. I remember back in the day shaking in my boots when Maincorpse was staring me down in local because he was a G. Not sure if everyone being on relatively the same playing field offers the same return.

 

I feel the same kinda.  I like being able to look at a local list and be able to be worried about the names in it because they're a beast of an account driven by an experienced player.  Kinda blurred with account sales and artificial account buffs like meditation or fancy armor, but meh.  Like when I was new(er) I knew that if there was someone from JK like Kix or Nosyt in local, probably best to get safe and pick another fight.  If everyone ends up 100% equal then the drive to be better is lost and pvp ends up more of a generic battle royaleish game just without the 100 pvpers nor does it really fit into a grind/timebased perpetual game like wurm.  Suppose this is also what keeps Wurm niche but it can't really be changed without just deleting the entire game and starting over

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42 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Karma teleport isn't coming back, TC isn't leaving, so list your changes outside of that.

 

When has anyone here ever said or mentioned anything about even so much as making changes to that mechanic of the game?

I dont know what is with you and Karma Teleports, but no one cares.

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Quote

so list your changes outside of that.


Seems people here simply can't lay out what changes they require and rather cry, convo going nowhere.

Repeating population isn't really an argument.
 

Chaos isn't the only server to bleed tho, actually since you joined freedom, freedom has declined in population by the hundreds as Jake points out, so is Chaos not simply receiving the same bleed of players as the servers you currently reside on? Or we going to point to one server on the freedom cluster and set a whole made up reason as to why that is losing players outside of the ones you live on, lol.

Also, chaos will go to 60 pop anytime in minutes anytime there is a reason to leave deed, which shows there simply needs to be more reasons to leave deed and changes outside the stalemate that allows 1 big team to landslide hota/the map. We're all literally waiting to log in and do something outside of roaming for no reason and watching enemy run away 44 kmph. 

d12082c8b77783660b7ea6abc92b6d50.png
https://gyazo.com/d12082c8b77783660b7ea6abc92b6d50

Why don't you do what I say in the OP and post your suggestions in a different thread whilst this one addresses the suggestions current players from 4 groups want since you clearly aren't ready to present a desired list to the majority of the community here with the devs eyes eager to read. 

Edited by Mclavin

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Please refrain from accusing us of KvK discussion because our suggestions and method of presenting them do not fit your pre-conceived notions of how the game should be played and what we should or should not talk about. 

 

Our suggestions are equally as valid and should be part of the discussion.  If the epic kiddos were so good at creating amazing competitive environments, wurm pvp servers would have more than 19 on Chaos and 18 spread across the 4 epic servers right now.  The truth is their way of playing and their implemented suggestions have failed Wurm pvp, it is time to start listening to those you disagree with for a change.

Edited by madnezz
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On 7/16/2018 at 5:58 PM, whereami said:

While there has been a lot of discussion, mostly just about how everyone discussing here wants to kill Chaos as a whole, none of the players discussing in this thread have even played on Chaos for more than 2 or 3 years total.

Chaos used to have at least 150 to 200 active players every day, but what happened?

The Epic crew came over and started making changes.

You allowed skill transfers from Epic which FLOODED the market with high-end accounts making them as worthless as woodscraps, thus causing the massive PvP requirement you now currently ##### about constantly.

 

 

1: There are plenty of people commenting in this thread about wanting positive change for Wild (aka Chaos) who have played for over 5 years, on Wild/Chaos, and Epic as well. Besides, who gives a * when someone started playing on a particular server, or what server they are coming from. You don't get automatic entitlement for having played on a particular server that bars everyone else's argument invalid. What matters is if you're currently playing there (or not), and are trying to push changes to bring more people in. This is how Wurm, in particular, the PvP environment, will survive. And we want that, don't we?

 

2:  Here are some timestamps of /who during some random months during the period of which I believe was the most population / active PvP on Wild. Yes, I know it isn't covering all timezones, but we can even add another 50% and I don't think we ever had 150-200 active daily. I think at best, we'd average no more than 100 (not including alts):

 

2009

Spoiler

  H:\BKUP\Matt\Wurm\players\Xallo\logs\_Event.2009-04.txt (22 hits)
    Line 9: [22:02:36] 40 other players are online.
    Line 233: [22:16:30] 38 other players are online.
    Line 522: [22:35:31] 36 other players are online.
    Line 723: [00:24:56] 19 other players are online.
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    Line 3673: [15:58:23] 38 other players are online.
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    Line 3808: [16:15:54] 36 other players are online.
    Line 4271: [18:44:29] 28 other players are online.
    Line 4318: [15:57:58] 54 other players are online.
    Line 4349: [16:18:47] 51 other players are online.
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    Line 4662: [17:14:06] 45 other players are online.
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    Line 5456: [18:51:45] 28 other players are online.
    Line 5464: [18:52:39] 28 other players are online.

 

2010

Spoiler

H:\BKUP\Matt\Wurm\players\Xallo\logs\_Event.2010-04.txt (388 hits)
    Line 9: [12:47:45] 61 other players are online.
    Line 18: [12:47:46] 61 other players are online.
    Line 34: [15:15:39] 84 other players are online.
    Line 41: [15:15:40] 84 other players are online.
    Line 190: [17:39:14] 92 other players are online.
    Line 229: [19:03:45] 91 other players are online.
    Line 314: [21:35:07] 90 other players are online.
    Line 7404: [06:14:53] 48 other players are online.
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    Line 7561: [12:32:34] 88 other players are online.
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    Line 7765: [13:08:46] 96 other players are online.
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    Line 69430: [20:56:22] 92 other players are online.
    Line 69675: [21:26:23] 91 other players are online.
    Line 69680: [21:26:26] 91 other players are online.
    Line 69746: [07:39:31] 29 other players are online.
    Line 69752: [07:39:35] 29 other players are online.
    Line 69790: [12:50:44] 92 other players are online.
    Line 69797: [12:50:46] 92 other players are online.
    Line 71176: [15:50:28] 106 other players are online.
    Line 71789: [17:13:16] 110 other players are online.
    Line 72000: [17:47:22] 109 other players are online.
    Line 72005: [17:47:23] 109 other players are online.
    Line 72511: [20:33:51] 90 other players are online.
    Line 72598: [21:09:51] 88 other players are online.
    Line 73113: [22:54:19] 76 other players are online.
    Line 74821: [01:12:15] 70 other players are online.
    Line 75155: [07:07:39] 69 other players are online.
    Line 75162: [07:07:41] 69 other players are online.
    Line 75531: [08:57:56] 67 other players are online.
    Line 75537: [08:57:59] 67 other players are online.
    Line 75753: [09:37:55] 79 other players are online.
    Line 75759: [09:37:57] 79 other players are online.
    Line 75786: [10:42:24] 86 other players are online.
    Line 75793: [10:42:28] 86 other players are online.
    Line 75887: [11:04:06] 80 other players are online.
    Line 77437: [16:09:01] 128 other players are online.
    Line 77445: [16:09:01] 128 other players are online.
    Line 81529: [20:15:37] 97 other players are online.
    Line 81535: [20:15:41] 97 other players are online.
    Line 84120: [21:39:10] 101 other players are online.
    Line 84126: [21:39:13] 101 other players are online.
    Line 84911: [23:37:58] 83 other players are online.
    Line 84916: [23:38:21] 83 other players are online.
    Line 84921: [23:38:24] 83 other players are online.
    Line 85918: [07:38:36] 86 other players are online.
    Line 85924: [07:38:40] 86 other players are online.
    Line 85939: [07:43:28] 87 other players are online.
    Line 85944: [07:47:40] 86 other players are online.
    Line 87270: [14:00:07] 132 other players are online.
    Line 87304: [14:04:37] 135 other players are online.
    Line 87367: [14:23:11] 127 other players are online.
    Line 87480: [15:11:15] 165 other players are online.
    Line 87488: [15:13:47] 169 other players are online.
    Line 87489: [15:13:50] 169 other players are online.
    Line 87520: [15:36:34] 161 other players are online.
    Line 87534: [15:51:00] 153 other players are online.
    Line 87572: [16:35:06] 135 other players are online.
    Line 87587: [16:43:14] 129 other players are online.
    Line 87833: [17:09:08] 129 other players are online.
    Line 87848: [17:12:12] 133 other players are online.
    Line 88710: [19:29:22] 111 other players are online.
    Line 88715: [19:29:23] 111 other players are online.
    Line 88832: [00:03:34] 63 other players are online.
    Line 88839: [00:03:34] 63 other players are online.
    Line 88854: [00:24:49] 59 other players are online.
    Line 88860: [00:24:52] 59 other players are online.
    Line 89160: [02:11:49] 46 other players are online.
    Line 89185: [15:29:55] 91 other players are online.
    Line 89191: [15:29:58] 91 other players are online.
    Line 89212: [18:12:27] 102 other players are online.
    Line 89218: [18:12:30] 102 other players are online.
    Line 91526: [21:49:40] 93 other players are online.
    Line 91532: [21:49:43] 92 other players are online.
    Line 91549: [23:20:03] 80 other players are online.
    Line 91555: [23:20:07] 80 other players are online.
    Line 91564: [23:20:47] 79 other players are online.
    Line 94703: [12:45:32] 72 other players are online.
    Line 94710: [12:45:34] 72 other players are online.
    Line 94761: [17:04:35] 96 other players are online.
    Line 94768: [17:04:38] 96 other players are online.
    Line 94983: [18:07:16] 82 other players are online.
    Line 94989: [18:07:17] 82 other players are online.
    Line 95265: [19:44:10] 85 other players are online.
    Line 95541: [22:33:30] 75 other players are online.
    Line 95547: [22:33:33] 75 other players are online.
    Line 96671: [23:55:31] 59 other players are online.
    Line 96677: [23:55:34] 59 other players are online.
    Line 97146: [12:53:43] 71 other players are online.
    Line 105082: [19:30:50] 95 other players are online.
    Line 105242: [21:08:41] 76 other players are online.
    Line 105248: [21:08:45] 76 other players are online.
    Line 105324: [21:33:19] 73 other players are online.
    Line 105330: [21:33:23] 73 other players are online.
    Line 107743: [23:17:51] 67 other players are online.
    Line 107862: [12:42:01] 74 other players are online.
    Line 107869: [12:42:04] 74 other players are online.
    Line 110713: [15:34:33] 85 other players are online.
    Line 112376: [20:24:14] 88 other players are online.
    Line 112383: [20:24:17] 88 other players are online.
    Line 112823: [20:51:41] 84 other players are online.
    Line 115084: [23:12:05] 78 other players are online.
    Line 115503: [23:39:28] 58 other players are online.
    Line 115561: [23:43:41] 57 other players are online.
    Line 115903: [00:20:22] 47 other players are online.
    Line 115932: [07:42:13] 55 other players are online.
    Line 115939: [07:42:15] 55 other players are online.
    Line 119334: [11:58:10] 86 other players are online.
    Line 121989: [14:39:45] 96 other players are online.
    Line 122376: [05:27:51] 56 other players are online.
    Line 122383: [05:27:55] 56 other players are online.
    Line 122924: [06:30:51] 13 other players are online.
    Line 122930: [06:30:53] 13 other players are online.
    Line 122962: [06:45:16] 41 other players are online.
    Line 122971: [07:10:38] 75 other players are online.
    Line 122977: [07:10:41] 75 other players are online.
    Line 123321: [10:20:34] 94 other players are online.
    Line 123328: [10:20:37] 94 other players are online.
    Line 133829: [22:26:46] 75 other players are online.
    Line 133836: [22:26:46] 75 other players are online.
    Line 134244: [23:29:52] 68 other players are online.
    Line 134344: [12:40:04] 74 other players are online.
    Line 134351: [12:40:04] 74 other players are online.
    Line 136940: [18:23:25] 94 other players are online.
    Line 136945: [18:23:27] 94 other players are online.
    Line 140215: [22:23:04] 67 other players are online.
    Line 141011: [22:50:56] 63 other players are online.
    Line 141389: [23:08:19] 72 other players are online.
    Line 141399: [23:08:53] 72 other players are online.
    Line 142099: [12:41:45] 76 other players are online.
    Line 142107: [12:41:46] 76 other players are online.
    Line 142571: [13:27:16] 81 other players are online.
    Line 142618: [14:38:35] 76 other players are online.
    Line 142625: [14:38:36] 76 other players are online.
    Line 143430: [16:15:02] 98 other players are online.
    Line 143435: [16:15:02] 98 other players are online.
    Line 143488: [16:24:55] 95 other players are online.
    Line 143494: [16:24:58] 95 other players are online.
    Line 146829: [20:22:43] 100 other players are online.
    Line 146835: [20:22:46] 100 other players are online.
    Line 148056: [22:20:32] 81 other players are online.
    Line 148064: [22:20:35] 81 other players are online.
    Line 151694: [12:54:43] 71 other players are online.
    Line 151701: [12:54:45] 71 other players are online.
    Line 152562: [20:10:12] 78 other players are online.
    Line 152568: [20:10:15] 78 other players are online.
    Line 152589: [04:49:17] 48 other players are online.
    Line 152595: [04:49:20] 48 other players are online.
    Line 152671: [12:52:32] 101 other players are online.
    Line 152678: [12:52:35] 101 other players are online.
    Line 153156: [17:58:01] 102 other players are online.
    Line 153162: [17:58:06] 102 other players are online.
    Line 178515: [20:33:37] 96 other players are online.
    Line 178526: [20:35:10] 97 other players are online.
    Line 179121: [22:14:43] 85 other players are online.
    Line 179128: [22:14:44] 85 other players are online.
    Line 179162: [22:17:48] 85 other players are online.
    Line 179272: [22:40:49] 86 other players are online.
    Line 179324: [22:50:15] 83 other players are online.
    Line 179329: [22:50:18] 83 other players are online.
    Line 180068: [08:34:20] 58 other players are online.
    Line 180076: [08:34:21] 58 other players are online.
    Line 180089: [08:47:51] 57 other players are online.
    Line 185960: [13:20:59] 107 other players are online.
    Line 186533: [15:29:46] 112 other players are online.
    Line 187256: [17:32:22] 90 other players are online.
    Line 188044: [19:21:52] 95 other players are online.
    Line 188050: [19:21:56] 95 other players are online.
    Line 191979: [01:51:44] 64 other players are online.
    Line 191985: [01:51:47] 64 other players are online.
    Line 192252: [02:06:30] 60 other players are online.
    Line 192576: [08:12:07] 30 other players are online.
    Line 192582: [08:12:07] 30 other players are online.
    Line 192609: [12:39:24] 84 other players are online.
    Line 192616: [12:39:24] 84 other players are online.
    Line 194495: [17:50:44] 81 other players are online.
    Line 197537: [23:22:06] 64 other players are online.
    Line 197544: [23:22:09] 64 other players are online.
    Line 198726: [10:45:26] 44 other players are online.
    Line 198733: [10:45:30] 44 other players are online.
    Line 200112: [14:44:27] 87 other players are online.
    Line 200120: [14:44:28] 87 other players are online.
    Line 208809: [18:27:23] 67 other players are online.
    Line 211489: [19:44:15] 81 other players are online.
    Line 211495: [19:44:18] 81 other players are online.
    Line 211513: [22:15:36] 76 other players are online.
    Line 211519: [22:15:40] 76 other players are online.
    Line 211997: [23:56:27] 62 other players are online.
    Line 212005: [00:02:01] 62 other players are online.
    Line 212044: [06:02:36] 38 other players are online.
    Line 212052: [06:02:37] 38 other players are online.
    Line 212195: [11:51:21] 67 other players are online.
    Line 212202: [11:51:24] 67 other players are online.
    Line 212628: [15:46:43] 119 other players are online.
    Line 212634: [15:46:44] 119 other players are online.
    Line 214062: [19:09:36] 74 other players are online.
    Line 214070: [19:09:37] 74 other players are online.
    Line 216031: [21:54:29] 67 other players are online.
    Line 216503: [22:31:08] 73 other players are online.
    Line 216509: [22:31:12] 73 other players are online.
    Line 217588: [08:26:34] 52 other players are online.
    Line 217595: [08:26:37] 52 other players are online.
    Line 218508: [10:09:28] 52 other players are online.
    Line 218513: [10:09:30] 52 other players are online.
    Line 219476: [12:08:50] 73 other players are online.
    Line 219481: [12:08:50] 73 other players are online.
    Line 219498: [12:09:37] 73 other players are online.
    Line 219503: [12:09:39] 73 other players are online.
    Line 219526: [12:10:50] 74 other players are online.
    Line 219531: [12:10:52] 74 other players are online.
    Line 219557: [12:11:42] 75 other players are online.
    Line 219562: [12:11:44] 75 other players are online.
    Line 219601: [12:13:22] 75 other players are online.
    Line 219606: [12:13:25] 75 other players are online.
    Line 219616: [12:14:07] 76 other players are online.
    Line 219621: [12:14:07] 76 other players are online.
    Line 219645: [12:17:24] 75 other players are online.
    Line 219652: [12:17:27] 74 other players are online.
    Line 220085: [14:42:26] 99 other players are online.
    Line 220092: [14:42:28] 99 other players are online.
    Line 220553: [15:23:27] 99 other players are online.
    Line 220558: [15:23:29] 99 other players are online.
    Line 227198: [07:52:21] 42 other players are online.
    Line 227205: [07:52:24] 42 other players are online.
    Line 227423: [08:09:17] 47 other players are online.
    Line 232101: [12:43:38] 89 other players are online.
    Line 232647: [13:20:10] 88 other players are online.
    Line 232655: [13:20:12] 89 other players are online.
    Line 239544: [18:12:38] 81 other players are online.
    Line 239550: [18:12:39] 81 other players are online.

 

2011:

Spoiler

 H:\BKUP\Matt\Wurm\players\Xallo\logs\_Event.2011-04.txt (283 hits)
    Line 702: [01:02:09] 33 other players are online. (237 totally in Wurm)
    Line 707: [01:02:10] 33 other players are online. (237 totally in Wurm)
    Line 715: [01:02:42] 35 other players are online. (239 totally in Wurm)
    Line 720: [01:02:42] 35 other players are online. (240 totally in Wurm)
    Line 1901: [02:25:21] 39 other players are online. (231 totally in Wurm)
    Line 6701: [15:03:39] 108 other players are online. (527 totally in Wurm)
    Line 6709: [15:03:40] 108 other players are online. (527 totally in Wurm)
    Line 6776: [14:59:31] 117 other players are online. (596 totally in Wurm)
    Line 6783: [14:59:32] 117 other players are online. (597 totally in Wurm)
    Line 15053: [14:25:15] 101 other players are online. (526 totally in Wurm)
    Line 15061: [14:25:17] 101 other players are online. (526 totally in Wurm)
    Line 18092: [22:00:01] 73 other players are online. (368 totally in Wurm)
    Line 18100: [22:00:01] 73 other players are online. (368 totally in Wurm)
    Line 18361: [22:38:29] 72 other players are online. (351 totally in Wurm)
    Line 21947: [10:33:43] 60 other players are online. (352 totally in Wurm)
    Line 21955: [10:33:44] 60 other players are online. (352 totally in Wurm)
    Line 22540: [11:31:22] 82 other players are online. (404 totally in Wurm)
    Line 22545: [11:31:22] 82 other players are online. (404 totally in Wurm)
    Line 22770: [11:56:32] 88 other players are online. (446 totally in Wurm)
    Line 22775: [11:56:33] 88 other players are online. (446 totally in Wurm)
    Line 24401: [15:34:44] 94 other players are online. (521 totally in Wurm)
    Line 24406: [15:34:44] 94 other players are online. (520 totally in Wurm)
    Line 24636: [15:54:32] 99 other players are online. (503 totally in Wurm)
    Line 24641: [15:54:33] 99 other players are online. (503 totally in Wurm)
    Line 29103: [21:05:08] 89 other players are online. (407 totally in Wurm)
    Line 29110: [21:05:09] 89 other players are online. (407 totally in Wurm)
    Line 29259: [22:10:28] 76 other players are online. (378 totally in Wurm)
    Line 29266: [22:10:29] 76 other players are online. (378 totally in Wurm)
    Line 32032: [00:28:32] 56 other players are online. (281 totally in Wurm)
    Line 32037: [00:28:32] 56 other players are online. (281 totally in Wurm)
    Line 35728: [03:57:19] 36 other players are online. (207 totally in Wurm)
    Line 36447: [04:39:03] 32 other players are online. (205 totally in Wurm)
    Line 36454: [04:39:03] 32 other players are online. (205 totally in Wurm)
    Line 38217: [05:52:35] 39 other players are online. (235 totally in Wurm)
    Line 38597: [15:33:31] 103 other players are online. (501 totally in Wurm)
    Line 38605: [15:33:31] 103 other players are online. (501 totally in Wurm)
    Line 43685: [19:59:36] 79 other players are online. (429 totally in Wurm)
    Line 43701: [20:00:15] 79 other players are online. (427 totally in Wurm)
    Line 45793: [01:26:09] 50 other players are online. (250 totally in Wurm)
    Line 45801: [01:26:09] 50 other players are online. (250 totally in Wurm)
    Line 45807: [01:27:20] 51 other players are online. (247 totally in Wurm)
    Line 46400: [02:05:57] 52 other players are online. (228 totally in Wurm)
    Line 46630: [02:42:53] 52 other players are online. (229 totally in Wurm)
    Line 46840: [03:00:51] 44 other players are online. (228 totally in Wurm)
    Line 46847: [03:00:51] 44 other players are online. (228 totally in Wurm)
    Line 46865: [04:04:22] 43 other players are online. (224 totally in Wurm)
    Line 46872: [04:04:22] 43 other players are online. (224 totally in Wurm)
    Line 47793: [05:32:00] 40 other players are online. (214 totally in Wurm)
    Line 49111: [16:01:28] 93 other players are online. (506 totally in Wurm)
    Line 49116: [16:01:29] 93 other players are online. (506 totally in Wurm)
    Line 50895: [19:17:36] 88 other players are online. (434 totally in Wurm)
    Line 50902: [19:17:36] 88 other players are online. (434 totally in Wurm)
    Line 52268: [21:27:13] 66 other players are online. (360 totally in Wurm)
    Line 52275: [21:27:15] 66 other players are online. (360 totally in Wurm)
    Line 54930: [00:55:41] 55 other players are online. (274 totally in Wurm)
    Line 56484: [02:33:24] 57 other players are online. (248 totally in Wurm)
    Line 57375: [06:30:45] 55 other players are online. (241 totally in Wurm)
    Line 57382: [06:30:45] 55 other players are online. (241 totally in Wurm)
    Line 58411: [13:30:06] 84 other players are online. (451 totally in Wurm)
    Line 58419: [13:30:06] 84 other players are online. (451 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60020: [15:21:27] 87 other players are online. (519 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60027: [15:21:28] 87 other players are online. (519 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60346: [15:42:36] 93 other players are online. (519 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60353: [15:42:39] 93 other players are online. (519 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60379: [16:03:48] 98 other players are online. (521 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60386: [16:03:49] 98 other players are online. (521 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60968: [19:22:16] 95 other players are online. (453 totally in Wurm)
    Line 60975: [19:22:17] 95 other players are online. (453 totally in Wurm)
    Line 61032: [19:34:35] 98 other players are online. (455 totally in Wurm)
    Line 66464: [01:17:10] 49 other players are online. (308 totally in Wurm)
    Line 71978: [17:43:55] 120 other players are online. (504 totally in Wurm)
    Line 71983: [17:43:55] 120 other players are online. (504 totally in Wurm)
    Line 71988: [17:44:10] 119 other players are online. (503 totally in Wurm)
    Line 78526: [10:14:08] 93 other players are online. (427 totally in Wurm)
    Line 79440: [12:54:06] 121 other players are online. (516 totally in Wurm)
    Line 80469: [16:32:23] 112 other players are online. (532 totally in Wurm)
    Line 82420: [19:30:35] 87 other players are online. (459 totally in Wurm)
    Line 82425: [19:30:35] 87 other players are online. (459 totally in Wurm)
    Line 83936: [22:08:21] 83 other players are online. (391 totally in Wurm)
    Line 83941: [22:08:21] 82 other players are online. (390 totally in Wurm)
    Line 85798: [23:36:22] 62 other players are online. (327 totally in Wurm)
    Line 86321: [00:05:34] 48 other players are online. (282 totally in Wurm)
    Line 93126: [04:32:25] 18 other players are online. (56 totally in Wurm)
    Line 93134: [04:32:25] 18 other players are online. (56 totally in Wurm)
    Line 98978: [16:58:14] 93 other players are online. (454 totally in Wurm)
    Line 98986: [16:58:14] 93 other players are online. (454 totally in Wurm)
    Line 100396: [19:34:47] 79 other players are online. (424 totally in Wurm)
    Line 100403: [19:34:48] 79 other players are online. (424 totally in Wurm)
    Line 111283: [18:13:52] 71 other players are online. (431 totally in Wurm)
    Line 111291: [18:13:52] 72 other players are online. (432 totally in Wurm)
    Line 112792: [20:40:31] 83 other players are online. (410 totally in Wurm)
    Line 112797: [20:40:31] 84 other players are online. (411 totally in Wurm)
    Line 113363: [22:13:13] 63 other players are online. (340 totally in Wurm)
    Line 113368: [22:13:13] 63 other players are online. (340 totally in Wurm)
    Line 113380: [03:23:41] 32 other players are online. (214 totally in Wurm)
    Line 113388: [03:23:41] 32 other players are online. (214 totally in Wurm)
    Line 113411: [03:35:38] 31 other players are online. (207 totally in Wurm)
    Line 113418: [03:35:38] 31 other players are online. (207 totally in Wurm)
    Line 113429: [03:36:38] 31 other players are online. (209 totally in Wurm)
    Line 118436: [14:35:22] 87 other players are online. (448 totally in Wurm)
    Line 118443: [14:35:22] 87 other players are online. (449 totally in Wurm)
    Line 119667: [15:52:35] 86 other players are online. (458 totally in Wurm)
    Line 119674: [15:52:35] 86 other players are online. (458 totally in Wurm)
    Line 125708: [20:44:15] 76 other players are online. (432 totally in Wurm)
    Line 125715: [20:44:16] 76 other players are online. (432 totally in Wurm)
    Line 131961: [14:14:57] 93 other players are online. (513 totally in Wurm)
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3: Trust me, Wild/Chaos accounts have value, and still have more value, than most epic accounts that converted over, so as long as they grinded, and continue to grind, during Epic's creation (and destruction?). Epic skill-gain was "for the most part" converted fairly into 1x skill-gain, so any argument that claims Epic accounts are BETTER than Freedom accounts JUST because they came from Epic are pretty much obsolete. Basically, as long as you put the same amount of effort into grinding skills, your account on Wild/Chaos would be the same as an Epic account. Keep in mind, Epic accounts also had their meditation paths revoked, so they still had to work their way back up (half a year or more?) to SoTG. (Also, are we forgetting Tomes didn't cross?)

 

To give some account examples: Dadd and Gavin would be comparable to accounts like Bix and Gary. Bix and Gary did the same, if not more, grinding on their accounts than Dadd and Gavin did, but they were subjected to the meditation path reset when crossing. I'd expect their skills/stats to be relatively equal on Freedom simply because they put relatively equal amounts of effort into skilling their accounts. Keep in mind, their Tomes did not cross, so they had to put even more effort into that than a Freedomer would have.

 

Furthermore, the high level requirements were already a problem long before Epic was allowed to transfer skills to Freedom. Don't you remember all the discussions about this previously? TBH, the skill-level difference isn't the issue, so don't try to make it one. The issue lies with the ridiculous money/luck/waiting in relation to meditation, tomes, and drake/scale. People wouldn't give a crap about dying and losing a set of studded/chain/plate, compared to scale. The only reason this wasn't an issue before is because people wouldn't instantly COD a drake/scale set over to Freedom to try and flog off for top dollar. They'd wear it instead, and probably die with it to keep the recycling nature of armour (and weapons) on-going.

 

 

TLDR #1: Who gives a damn where someone played/plays/doesn't play. It doesn't matter. Quit pretending it does.

TLDR #2: Wild/Chaos has never had a huge active playerbase, but has always dwindled around ~100. (The map doesn't support much larger).

TLDR #3: Epic accounts did not have an easier time grinding, their skills were converted, and the issue does not lie with the transfer of their accounts, but rather with meditation/tomes/drake/scale.

 

 

Anyway, I think a good start would be to implement Epic's armour code (which I will call basically a re-vamp of pre-ff), then we can have our discussions about what else to do.

Edited by Xallo
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apart from the mindless craptalk this has evolved into, just think about it, all you have done is calling people in this thread "epic kiddos" and kept rambling

if you would explain how it would be better in your opinion, or giving actual criticism, then yeah, go right for it, cause thats whats this thread is for

 

we invited the current active pvp community to discuss about these points in the OP, we had 100% agreement on all of those points, however, if you think something is wrong just write what is wrong and dont go and point your dirty fingers at those "epic kiddos"

 

can thank me later

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

 

I feel the same kinda.  I like being able to look at a local list and be able to be worried about the names in it because they're a beast of an account driven by an experienced player.  Kinda blurred with account sales and artificial account buffs like meditation or fancy armor, but meh.  Like when I was new(er) I knew that if there was someone from JK like Kix or Nosyt in local, probably best to get safe and pick another fight.  If everyone ends up 100% equal then the drive to be better is lost and pvp ends up more of a generic battle royaleish game just without the 100 pvpers nor does it really fit into a grind/timebased perpetual game like wurm.  Suppose this is also what keeps Wurm niche but it can't really be changed without just deleting the entire game and starting over

I completely agree, but the PvP servers are never going to gain population at this point without a lower barrier of entry. Short of fresh maps with fresh characters, there really isn't much that can be done in that regard. The gap from 70-99 fs is still fairly significant, as is having archery or multiple weapons skilled, so I think there still would be some level of "wow" for the truly strong accounts. Besides, wouldn't it be interesting to see an account name in local and be afraid because "that dude has a reputation as a really skilled pvper," and you can have a goal of outplaying them, rather than "that dude been grinding longer than me and i have no chance to win". As a somewhat recent example, when Proph came to Chaos on Doctorchaos/Kix/Thornbush(which are all fairly mediocre stat-wise), he was destroying other kingdoms in pvp(don't travel on highways alone lol). It was because the dude is a goat pvper, not the account being Dadd-tier.

Edited by Kabill
i can't keep track of all these accounts yo
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