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Mclavin

Updates the current pvp community want

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18 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

Most kingdoms would likely have an in-house crafter creating their sets. Those who win fights would simply loot it off their opponents and keep those in reserve. Regardless of what type of armour is in demand, the fact that there is no "sink" to remove armour from the economy makes looping in trade very difficult unless the armour is as rare as drake and scale. If you can think of a way to create an item sink to get armour (and weapons, possibly) out of the system via PvP, that would be something highly interesting to hear.

Maybe linked somehow to champhood? Sacrifice a certain type of high end weapon or piece of armor to your god for a chance to become Champion. Dump idea, but only one i got at the moment.

Or maybe, since there are 3 champions on each kingdom, make it possible for 1 champion to become slightly better (like increased movement speed since u feel lighter? drops weight by 20 or something cooler) when sacrificing high end stuff to god.

 

*edit*  or maybe few extended lifes for that 1 champion who has sacrificed, so it is actually usefull

Edited by Themystrix

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if we're "balancing" pvp based on freedom market we probably won't ever get anywhere. Theres no possible way for you to make adjustments to plate, chain and leathers that cost 2silver for a set ( and can also be made on demand) that make them competitive as something you want to have at a 90 euro value

 

i just don't see it working

 

Spoiler

delete chaos, force all pvp onto epic make the rest of the said changes there, new map. Oh? you can't do that either? because Chaos is responsible for a good portion of the freedom market? ahh, the dilemma

 

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8 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

if we're "balancing" pvp based on freedom market we probably won't ever get anywhere. Theres no possible way for you to make adjustments to plate, chain and leathers that cost 2silver for a set ( and can also be made on demand) that make them competitive as something you want to have at a 90 euro value

 

i just don't see it working

 

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delete chaos, force all pvp onto epic make the rest of the said changes there, new map. Oh? you can't do that either? because Chaos is responsible for a good portion of the freedom market? ahh, the dilemma

 

Chaos once was only a freedom server.

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I agree with every suggestion, but the wording and verbage I don't.

 

Saying stuff like "to increase the amount of fights" is sort of misleading, if there's ever a situation where you're searching or looking for enemies; it's because they're running and you're ganking them, and this change would only secure the gank. If any two forces go out and want to fight they won't need any amount of game change or implementation, but either way I agree with all of it. 

 

 

Also, I agree with hellhorses being around, but like I keep saying i'm whatever on the changes; so what's an alternative use for them? Maybe buff them a bit and allow them to have bardings still and they become a "below troll level above crocodile" powerful tamable?  If you remove hellhorses you're going to see the return of everyone running around with champion animals because everyone has taming enough to tame hellhorses as is, that might be an unintended circumstance from this.

Edited by Cornchips
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1 hour ago, Sindusk said:

 

Tower Chaining

 

Being able to place a tower wherever you want does seem rather unintuitive. The changes proposed make sense to me, but I also don’t have the background as to why the tower chaining system from a long time ago was removed. If someone could explain why that happened, I’d be far more onboard with this.

 

 

I'm not 100% confident i'm complete on this yet i believe maybe 6-7years back or more the chaining tower system was in place on chaos and one kingdom effectively blocked another kingdom from moving and expanding off the initial deed near gold coast and could not expand or grow being surrounded with only ability to extend was to link by taking dominant kingdom link.  This boxing in when one kingdom is overwhelmingly dominate caused a deadlock for the smaller kingdom.  In this scenario, yes the dominant kingdom extended all the way across the map in a chain system to push the opposing kingdom to the far edge of the map.  This struggle to then grow resulted in the ability to leap frog and drop a tower in a no influence area then make a deed that we have today.

Edited by Bloodscythe

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I'm going to piggyback on what Gary said in some other thread; but remove tower conquering all together. It took a time sink that needed you to play together as a community for a whole weekend building and bashing and turned it into a 10 minute ordeal to switch land over.

 

This needs to be the return of community activities you did as an entire kingdom I believe, instead of the current "yea we have like 2 or 3 guys that roam around every few days, you can go out with them if you'd like" approach to teaching new players and people the game. 

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/s Dear Devs, the current pvp community wants you to make wurm into instant gratification COD where everyone is wearing the same armor and all riding the same horses while character development has minimal impact on gameplay, kthxbye /s

 

If you want to increase PvP on Chaos start with reverting every rule change from the Mol Rehan nerf pvp update of 2016 forward. 

 

Prohibit staff from participating on Chaos as players in any capacity, gms should be 100% impartial and professional at all times and not pick and choose which tickets they want to answer, when they want to answer them, and how they want to answer them based on their kingdom affiliations or even have the appearance of doing so. 

 

Permanently remove players that insist on cheating as a way of gameplay and those that benefit from said cheating.  For example, the last raid on Checkers when the mayor account was hijacked, not only should all of the forum hackers been banned, any player that raided Checkers should have been permanently banned too because the mayor was illegally controlled by one of them.  I still have evidence left by the OP when he participated in the theft of an account and moonmetals off a freedom deed whose account info was gleaned from the hacking of our private forums.

 

You've had  just about 2 years of the cheaters & hackers running chaos and the server numbers don't lie.  Before they were given the server by the devs, more often than not there were at least 50+ players on Chaos most of any particular day, as of this minute there are 13 on during peak time in the EU in the middle of the summer.  I am sure the number of deeds has dropped by the same percentage and that is lost revenue no matter how you much lipstick you want to put on this pig.

Edited by madnezz
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Yea let's take away volunteer GM's ability to enjoy the game, they aren't players themselves and got to where they are because they have a great understanding and are the best to help you in any situation or anything,  you sure are a dribbling pasta strainer 

Edited by Cornchips
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6 minutes ago, madnezz said:

/s Dear Devs, the current pvp community wants you to make wurm into instant gratification COD where everyone is wearing the same armor and all riding the same horses while character development has minimal impact on gameplay, kthxbye /s

 

If you want to increase PvP on Chaos start with reverting every rule change from the Mol Rehan nerf pvp update of 2016 forward. 

 

Prohibit staff from participating on Chaos as players in any capacity, gms should be 100% impartial and professional at all times and not pick and choose which tickets they want to answer and when they want to answer them based on their kingdom affiliations. 

 

Permanently remove players that insist on cheating as a way of gameplay and those that benefit from said cheating.  For example, the last raid on Checkers when the mayor account was hijacked, not only should all of the forum hackers been banned, any player that raided Checkers should have been permanently banned too because the mayor was illegally controlled by one of them.

 

You've had 2 years of the cheaters and hackers running chaos and the server numbers don't lie.  Before they were given the server by the devs more often than not there were at least 50+ players on Chaos most of any particular day, as of this minute there are 13 on during peak time in the EU during the summer.  I am sure the number of deeds has dropped by the same percentage and that is lost revenue no matter how you much lipstick you want to put on this pig.

This post is just dribbling with bias.

 

I will not defend the actions of those individuals, but they are gone and banned. Anyone who cheats/exploits in the game should be and they were. Even my mayor/kingdom leader Cubeman was banned for macroing and at the end of the day I am more pissed that the idiot was doing it than I am at him being banned.

 

Mol-Rehan was not a shining beacon of light on the horizon, in fact if anything we saw the true character of MR on the very forums you mention, there are still archives of people in that group openly advocating cheating and exploitation of their own. So you can call the kettle black all you want, pot.

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@Sinduskre: sink.  In the majority of the games I've played its a container (space ship, sailing ship, tank, etc.) that gets blown up and is completely lost or some % is salvagable.  Here it is the character that is destroyed and recreated completely.  The container armor is just dropped to the ground. I don't see any good way to assess loss based on that.

 

However, loss based on a very small % chance that a blow will shatter or damage an item beyond repair should be feasible and would mimic real life. As well in RL nothing is truly repairable forever.  Metal weakens with age, with use, with repairs.  It thins due to rust, gets brittle due to bending and welding (which is what blacksmithing does).

 

The game already tracks damage due to use and non-use for each created piece in the game.  Set a lifetime damage  total where once an item has passed it, it can no longer be repaired.  The metal can be smelted back into usable lumps, leather and cloth just get tossed.  It is insane that I can find a boat or maul at 99% damage, click repair a couple of minutes later I have a perfectly good item.  I should get a message that says "Sadly the item was too damaged and crumbled into dust". In this way during a fight the armor and weapon stays intact, taking damage and protecting as well as it can until the fight is over.  Once over it is determined if the piece is too damaged to be repaired.  Would you risk your life on a breast plate that had 3 2" spear holes that had a patch placed over them?

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I feel like this list is not nearly as comprehensive as it needs to be.

 

I disagree with the reduction in local, for both open field PvP and on deed.  If the proposed solution is to reduce it to what... half?  Then you could stand out of local and fire trebs and longhouses all day.  It also allows for easier baiting, which is just free kills for whoever has the numbers.

 

As for the "removal" of hell horses and unicorns, I disagree with this as well.  If you put forth the effort to get SoTG and fight/weapon skills for PvP, then the same is true for animal taming and 31 body control for riding hell horses (and unicorns).  To remove this, you might as well remove the need to have high fight skill and let everyone with 1 sickle skill be able to attack as proficiently as someone that grinded it.

 

I also think we could do without taunting, oakshell and the severe movement penalty associated with plate wearing players in a hurting status.

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Instead of removing hota it could be reworked into something more interesting. Say make it global with a min/max height so no water/cliff pillars, x tiles away from deeds. Give them a big light beam like rifts where the pillar is spawned somewhere in x radius of. Hota ain't over until all pillars are capped - not by one kingdom, just none left neutral. Maths and a curve to divy winnings based on how many pillars a kingdom has at the end. Ezpz

Edited by Kabill

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It's not how the game plays out it's how the mini-game causes you to be limited to one part of the map. 

There is no reason to go anywhere else except deed towards hota

Edited by Mclavin

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10 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

As for the "removal" of hell horses and unicorns, I disagree with this as well.  If you put forth the effort to get SoTG and fight/weapon skills for PvP, then the same is true for animal taming and 31 body control for riding hell horses (and unicorns).

Just because you feel entitled to your 31 body control doesn't mean it should affect the game negatively like it's doing right now. People riding horses at 43 km/h is not a good thing. Someone enters ur local and exits it in 3 seconds because he is that fast

10 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

I disagree with the reduction in local, for both open field PvP and on deed.  If the proposed solution is to reduce it to what... half?  Then you could stand out of local and fire trebs and longhouses all day.  It also allows for easier baiting, which is just free kills for whoever has the numbers.

Uhm... You can't treb from 40 tiles away tho.. And even if you could, people are already doing it ... Most people would treb down half your houses before they ever pop the alarm... I think the local reduction would be great for giving people some courage but at the same time i haven't experienced it like the other guys on WU, but all they gotta say is that its great. Also, it's not easier to bait . It's the same thing. 

Edited by Gladiator
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Lower local has been tested for nearly a year, it works, go test it then come back and tell us the draw backs.

Faster horses are just used to dash from South coast to North coast and respond to any situation at anytime across the map, this is bad.
We actually wanted no horses and everything to return to the good days of on foot so your little hot zone deeds were actually lived in, not travelled to in 10 minutes. 

+ What glad said. 

Hellhorses have been a pain since introduction and just adds a requirement NEEDED to pvp. It's been a call for ages now to have them nerfed/removed. Not being able to mount is just fine.
You can always go on freedom and dash across highways still, for pvp? no, doesn't work. 5 years tells us so.

Edited by Mclavin
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3 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Just because you feel entitled to your 31 body control doesn't mean it should affect the game negatively like it's doing right now. People riding horses at 43 km/h is not a good thing. Someone enters ur local and exits it in 3 seconds because he is that fast

 

It's not about entitlement, it's about taking advantage of something you worked for to better your character.  Just like SoTG, fight skills, channeling skill if you're a priest, etc.  If we're homogenizing horse gear and speed, we might as well homogenize everything else to make it easier for the little guys. 

 

As for treb range, you're really splitting hairs here.  My point is that unless I'm standing on my longhouse, I might be 20-30 tiles from it (on a large deed) unable to see enemies in local firing away.  

 

 

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On epic when they made it so you could only see 25 tiles OUT of a cave, I never had an issue at any deed being in my cave dwelling not being able to see 25 tiles away, ever. 

Hairs are being plucked.

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And I'm a fan of the local range of caves being shortened on Chaos.  But on the surface, it's just fine the way it is.

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1 hour ago, Grumpysmith said:

@Sinduskre: sink.  In the majority of the games I've played its a container (space ship, sailing ship, tank, etc.) that gets blown up and is completely lost or some % is salvagable.  Here it is the character that is destroyed and recreated completely.  The container armor is just dropped to the ground. I don't see any good way to assess loss based on that.

 

However, loss based on a very small % chance that a blow will shatter or damage an item beyond repair should be feasible and would mimic real life. As well in RL nothing is truly repairable forever.  Metal weakens with age, with use, with repairs.  It thins due to rust, gets brittle due to bending and welding (which is what blacksmithing does).

 

The game already tracks damage due to use and non-use for each created piece in the game.  Set a lifetime damage  total where once an item has passed it, it can no longer be repaired.  The metal can be smelted back into usable lumps, leather and cloth just get tossed.  It is insane that I can find a boat or maul at 99% damage, click repair a couple of minutes later I have a perfectly good item.  I should get a message that says "Sadly the item was too damaged and crumbled into dust". In this way during a fight the armor and weapon stays intact, taking damage and protecting as well as it can until the fight is over.  Once over it is determined if the piece is too damaged to be repaired.  Would you risk your life on a breast plate that had 3 2" spear holes that had a patch placed over them?

 

I really don't like the idea of random equipment failure, and lifetime armor damage will penalize and thus discourage armor use.

 

Basically, though, I don't like the idea that PvP needs to be changed to suit the economy.

 

 

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The biggest +1 to ever be given!

And please do not use economy as a restriction of making a great game better!

I have said it before the biggest loosers in % must be the pvp comunity, you never see as high dens of drake on any pve server?

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28 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

I really don't like the idea of random equipment failure, and lifetime armor damage will penalize and thus discourage armor use.

 

Basically, though, I don't like the idea that PvP needs to be changed to suit the economy.

 

This is actually a topic that really should be discussed at further length. The fact that there is no sink for items is actually not just an "economy" problem - it's a power creep problem. Let's imagine 10 years from now when there's 10 years worth more of drake sets and dragonscale available. The supply is going to be so high that everyone will be able to get their hands on it for what's essentially free. All gear in Wurm, including tools, weapons, and equipment, are decreasing in value over time.

 

This also poses a challenge as a designer, too. Once an item is implemented, it's stuck in the ecosystem for good, continuing to be repaired and improved back up to top shape as long as it exists. It's hard to balance scarce armour X against common armour Y when kingdom Z has dozens of backup sets of each.

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When you die, random amount of items turns to scraps or junk, albion did this pretty good.
takes the item out of the game and creates a sink linked to death. 

I think Freedom is the area to look at sinks, not really pvp. In pvp we will sac 100 80ql wooden shields for some war bonus, so something along those lines would work as it does already

Edited by Mclavin

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You lose items by normal attrition as players leave the server or stop playing, deeds disbanding, smelting etc.  If the game ever grows in population again this stock pile you are so concerned with should be doled out to new players too.   Not to mention the game already has decay and players will prefer to do be doing other things than repairing and imping gear if they dont have to.   You are dwelling on a hypothetical problem instead of working on real ones.

Edited by madnezz
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6 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

 

This is actually a topic that really should be discussed at further length. The fact that there is no sink for items is actually not just an "economy" problem - it's a power creep problem. Let's imagine 10 years from now when there's 10 years worth more of drake sets and dragonscale available. The supply is going to be so high that everyone will be able to get their hands on it for what's essentially free. All gear in Wurm, including tools, weapons, and equipment, are decreasing in value over time.

 

This also poses a challenge as a designer, too. Once an item is implemented, it's stuck in the ecosystem for good, continuing to be repaired and improved back up to top shape as long as it exists. It's hard to balance scarce armour X against common armour Y when kingdom Z has dozens of backup sets of each.

 

Thoughts:

 

- How much gear is lost in banks/inventories due to players leaving?

- Epic armor balance seems pretty good, though, despite the challenge of item persistence. Is armor balance by itself a good enough reason to start sinking items?

- Armor/weapons do take damage, and must "continue to be repaired and improved back up to top". That requires player effort, otherwise the items -would- vanish.

 

While you could simply increase the damage rate to gear, forcing players to continually remake gear is repetitive, and that's a bad thing for gameplay (especially given how unfun imping is).

 

To me, the ultimate conclusion of any "sink" idea involving decay is simply doing more chores, which leaves less time for the fun stuff. Meh. :P

 

On the other hand, whoever posted the idea about saccing armor/gear for bonuses of some kind is on a better track, I think.

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While I'm at it, I personally know of an incredible number of rares/supremes on merchants that one day just went "poof". I assume those items were then mailed to the owner in backpacks (if the wiki doesn't lie), but if the owner never logs in, don't those items simply vanish once the imps get tired?

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