Sign in to follow this  
DevBlog

Patch Notes: 10/JUL/18

Recommended Posts

There's always going to be fringe cases or scenarios not thought of in testing, production of higher ql items is fine, it was the purpose of the imbues, but we did not consider those who would focus on creating tiny weight items that could then sbe smelted again to bypass ql cap mechanics and lump weight requirement mechanics. 

 

We were informed of this fairly quickly by a player who discovered it and wished to know whether it was intended, which we quickly agreed it was not. 

 

Unfortunately, not every player approaches a situation like this in the same manner "this is obviously broken" doesnt always mean "we should report it", and we'd like to stamp out those who seek to profit off such mechanics, and as such are in the process of reviewing our logs to identify if any individual did push this mechanic to extremes, that process and the outcome will be up to the GM team to determine whether vacations are necessary. We'll also be looking at a report reward for the player who did report it, it's not just a stick, there's a carrot too. 

 

We aren't psychic, and cannot always predict consequences, approaching absolutely every angle to ensure that in absolutely no way the mechanic could be abused would be impossible, things slip through. Defending the practices of abusing any possible scenario under the guise of "you guys should have thought of that!" fails to recognise your role in this, we all want a balanced game, at times we will rely on players to provide feedback on what feels broken, especially if it's something like this. 

 

This isn't a witch hunt, this is a crack down on poor attitudes and failure to report bugs or broken mechanics because they benefit the player

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was well a long time since it was declared from admins that exploits would be followed up in this way,

and that people reporting possible exploits would be rewarded, so should be clear for all not to do the exploits by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@RetrogradeWithout my knowledge, the person who reported it used the shared account i own to reproduce the bug.

Congrats to him to have reported it, but i just hope he didn't open a ticket with his own account and mine will be banned because used to reproduce the exploiting.

I just want to make things clear, (I've already removed access to him as soon as people informed me)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Davy said:

@RetrogradeWithout my knowledge, the person who reported it used the shared account i own to reproduce the bug.

Congrats to him to have reported it, but i just hope he didn't open a ticket with his own account and mine will be banned because used to reproduce the exploiting.

I just want to make things clear, (I've already removed access to him as soon as people informed me)

 

 

While I know many things happen on chaos with varied reasons.  I have to ask why you would remove someone that reported an exploit.  They must be an honest person.  Seems like that would be who you would keep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Pashka said:

 

While I know many things happen on chaos with varied reasons.  I have to ask why you would remove someone that reported an exploit.  They must be an honest person.  Seems like that would be who you would keep.

Because i’m the owner he must ask me if he may reproduce a bug in order to report it.

Will you let a person use your account with the risk to get it banned?

And by the way, this isn’t a Chaos fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't miniroll get an account banned for reproducing some exploit to show how it could be done?

 

Davy has good cause to worry.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I discovered that I could produce source salt 1/10 actions when mining ore, not only did I not get banned for reporting it, but I was allowed to keep the source that I produced before reporting it and while testing it with GM.

 

Report early, report often. I have no doubt that the GM team has the ability to determine the truth of an innocent mistake or an exploit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

This isn't a witch hunt, this is a crack down on poor attitudes and failure to report bugs or broken mechanics because they benefit the player 

 

The impression I've gotten lately from developer comments is that you all are viewing the general playerbase as the enemy.

 

I can't see that as a good impression to foster. (I'm hoping it's not an accurate impression, but if it is, that's an even more serious problem.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Davy said:

Because i’m the owner he must ask me if he may reproduce a bug in order to report it.

Will you let a person use your account with the risk to get it banned?

And by the way, this isn’t a Chaos fact.

 

No.  But then I don't share my account period.  There is no chance I would willingly hand over the reins to my chars.  Not because I think people are untrustworthy but because if I can't reach out and touch you, you have no business on my account.  Ok, I don't inherently trust people that I do not know and socialize with in real life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Davy said:

@RetrogradeWithout my knowledge, the person who reported it used the shared account i own to reproduce the bug.

Congrats to him to have reported it, but i just hope he didn't open a ticket with his own account and mine will be banned because used to reproduce the exploiting.

I just want to make things clear, (I've already removed access to him as soon as people informed me)

 

Rest assured, unless he decided to reproduce the bug hundreds of times "just to make sure" nothing will happen .

 

8 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

The impression I've gotten lately from developer comments is that you all are viewing the general playerbase as the enemy.

 

I can't see that as a good impression to foster. (I'm hoping it's not an accurate impression, but if it is, that's an even more serious problem.)

Not at all, and I'm sorry if that impression has come across

 

What it is is that it's frustrating having to second guess every QoL update because we can't guarantee there isn't a scenario we haven't thought of about people abusing it. it falls back into the "this is why we can't have nice things" which frustrates both us and players. We want more ease of play and little things that help remove that grating edge to mechanics, the problem is when something makes things a little TOO easy we face a scramble to address it before players take advantage, which many do. 

 

We are extremely grateful to the players who do speak with us when they feel things might be unintended and too easy, we want to encourage that, which is why we will always seek to reward if applicable. Exploiting a mechanic for personal gain is not cool, and not only hurts the game but hurts other players experiences as well, with QoL features rolled back because of it, the argument of "well you should have thought of that!" doesn't help as it only means we need to spend longer looking at each feature and scrap it if we can't think of every angle of its use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

What it is is that it's frustrating having to second guess every QoL update because we can't guarantee there isn't a scenario we haven't thought of about people abusing it. it falls back into the "this is why we can't have nice things" which frustrates both us and players. We want more ease of play and little things that help remove that grating edge to mechanics, the problem is when something makes things a little TOO easy we face a scramble to address it before players take advantage, which many do. 

 

We are extremely grateful to the players who do speak with us when they feel things might be unintended and too easy, we want to encourage that, which is why we will always seek to reward if applicable. Exploiting a mechanic for personal gain is not cool, and not only hurts the game but hurts other players experiences as well, with QoL features rolled back because of it, the argument of "well you should have thought of that!" doesn't help as it only means we need to spend longer looking at each feature and scrap it if we can't think of every angle of its use. 

 

Players will always be able to test more thoroughly than devs, so the idea of rewarding players for reporting exploits sounds good, especially if it's public knowledge that a worthwhile reward was given. That would encourage players to test and report, instead of exploit and hide.

 

And to get the effect, I don't think you'd need to name the whistle-blowing players publicly, only the exploit and the reward for its revealing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Fixed equipped electrum chain coif
  • Fixed electrum necklace for lower resolution settings
  • Added additional terrain normal maps and tweaked specular values
  • Fixed buff hover text for necklaces
  • Pry action with crowbar no longer shows as a checkerboard on the select bar
  • Stone bench now has an unfinished model
  • Texture optimizations

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody abused it besides me who reported it.  Davy, I would personally skill up weaponsmithing to 90 and then give you Johnston if something happened.

 

I didn't know what I was getting into, but at some point I felt the need to report it.  No mortal man should have that kind of power.  Only god should be able to get 5 100ql maul imps out of 0.20kg of glimmer.  I know better than that.

 

I'm glad they fixed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2018 at 7:05 AM, DevBlog said:
  • Due to a potential exploitable situation, the quality boost on creation from imbued potions and oils has been removed for the time being. 

 

Can we please get a time frame on this? I want to start cutting bricks (10,000 of them), and would prefer not to wait. Imbued chisels help a ton with output QL, and it's important for end wall QL.

 

Can we just make it a bannable offense to continue exploiting in that regard, and re-enable the imbues? Or at the very least, can we know when you will revert the change?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Xallo said:

Can we just make it a bannable offense to continue exploiting in that regard, and re-enable the imbues? Or at the very least, can we know when you will revert the change?

No timeframe as of yet, likely won't be next patch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Retrograde said:

No timeframe as of yet, likely won't be next patch

 

Keep in mind although a lot of us have gathered the imbues ourselves, there are some people who have bought them, and they are now "useless" for the time being - so wasted money (and effort). So I'd really hope so see some sort of information about the subject, rather than "sometime".

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Xallo said:

Keep in mind although a lot of us have gathered the imbues ourselves, there are some people who have bought them, and they are now "useless" for the time being - so wasted money (and effort). So I'd really hope so see some sort of information about the subject, rather than "sometime".

 

Thanks.

 

I'll give you the full background of what happened, since it's been taken out and reverted. I'm the one who made the changes so I'll take the full blame for it all.

 

There was a bug in the code which caused imbues to not function properly when using the crafting window. For those familiar with the code, the bug was mentioned in this thread. For those not, the bug essentially boiled down to having the imbue do nothing if the imbued tool (the chisel, from now on out) in the right slot of the crafting window. If you had rock shards on the left, and the chisel on the right, it would check the rock shards for the imbue which was incorrect.

 

I fixed this bug, then went to test it to ensure it was functioning. What I noticed was... well.. nothing. When I used the imbue chisel, I didn't notice any changes to the quality of the bricks I was making. I took a stack of 50QL shards out and had 90 stone cutting with an imbued chisel, and they all came out to 50QL bricks. So what gives? I thought imbues were supposed to increase QL, just like they do on gathering with woodcutting and mining. I looked into it, and added the additional QL to creation so it matched other imbues, assuming that too was an oversight.

 

Obviously, in hindsight, this was a mistake, which is why we arrive at this hotfix. However, that's not to say that imbues are currently useless.

 

Imbues currently increase the power of your skill check when creating, but are capped to the QL of the material. Let's say that you have a 100QL rock shard. You have a very, very low chance of making a 100QL stone brick even at 99 stone cutting. However, this changes with creation imbues. You now have an increase to your power on every skill check, giving you a pretty decent chance of getting a perfect 100QL resulting whetstone or brick. It's still capped to the resource QL, which means using an 80QL rock shard will never yield a brick or whetstone above 80QL. However, you at least have a higher chance of turning that 80QL rock shard into exactly an 80QL stone brick.

 

This issue has caused some discussion about where the root of the problem lies with these types of choices, and we're trying some different changes first before revisiting the idea of increasing creation QL again. They're not going to take forever - you'll probably see some adjustments in the upcoming few patches to lay the groundwork. It's something that would be really nice to have and, as you stated, it was earned. It should be rewarded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 20ql resource ql bump is too way too much.  Consider that after you mine with an imbued pickaxe you might cut rockshards with an imbued chisel: way too easy to get 100ql.  What you described, Sindusk, sounds like the way imbues should be working.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this