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Hypatia

Useless Unicorns

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32 minutes ago, Hypatia said:

Plus they attack me more than not.

 

great grind for shield skills while doing your taming grind

 

so many uses

 

Edited by JakeRivers

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2 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

the horns are the best alchemy items

True, they are the highest potency, but black mushrooms, spider hearts, and glands are too, and they are easier to get.

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3 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

great grind for shield skills while doing your taming grind

 

so many uses

 

I don't tame grind on the unis since my success rate is still too infrequent for my patience level.  xP   But that's still a good point!  I should pick up a shield whenever I need to tame them.  I like to fight with a large ax, but why not get in a little shield skill!    Anyway, fight skill has not been a high priority to me.  And when I want to work on it, I like to grind for practical reasons so I cull all the many stray cows on my isle, haha!  Soooo much beef...... :)

 

Anyway, that brings me to another point, we all have different play styles so why not make unicorns more useful to more players?

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The reason why unicorns cant be lead without taming them is because they are not agressive creatures. They dont attack you when you try to lead them/ride them. Theg would be hitched to carts and wagons, used as mounts and backups. That with the fact they are faster, stronger and can carry two preople, they would make hell horses and regular horses completely irrelevant, along with the taming skill.

 

-1

Edited by Angelklaine
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5 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

The reason why unicorns cant be lead without taming them is because they are not agressive creatures. They dont attack you when you try to lead them/ride them. Theg would be hitched to carts and wagons, used as mounts and backups. That with the fact they are faster, stronger and can carry two preople, they would make hell horses and regular horses completely irrelevant, along with the taming skill.

 

-1

Those are good points!  ...But I'm not sure it would really be that different than the hell horse.  Are they  a lot faster and stronger than the hellies?  I'm asking sincerely, because I honestly don't know.  They don't attack, true but does that matter?  The attacking hellies never stopped me from using them and many people prefer the looks of the hell horses over unicorns.  The only way I could see it becoming unicorns everywhere for everything and usurping horses and hellies is if they are truly that much faster and stronger.  Anyone have the stats?  I'll have to test this myself.

 

And the carrying two people is neat, but you can carry more than that with a cart, wagon or boat so I still don't see that it's all that useful.  You'd still need to level up BC to ride them, or be with someone with 26 BC to use this feature.  Anyone who isn't a low level player will have geared up 5 speed horses.  How many would dump them for unicorns?  I think some people would stick with horses just because they'd be embarrassed on a unicorn.  But I think this could be solved the same way as with hellies.  You can lead them and hitch them but only ride them when they are tamed...Which is how riding them now works so the only difference would be the easier use of carts and easier breeding.  I may be missing something though, so please let me know. :)

 

I'm also not sure how it would ruin taming skill since there are so many other critters to tame.

 

If they are really that much faster and stronger, I see your point.  But I having played on WU servers where unicorns stay hitched after becoming untamed, I have my doubts it would be much of an issue.  I'm not seeing everyone hitched to unicorns and riding unicorns, on the modded servers I have played.  I do see the occasional unicorn drawn cart, though.  Something I have never seen in WO.

 

Maybe unicorns aren't so much the issues as how taming works.  I don't know...  But would it really be that bad if unicorns worked like hell horses? (Including unhitching as they age up and not being hitchable in their elder years....something I think even horses/bison should have. Ref: The many abandoned horse drawn carts/wagons with "cared for" animals hitched until the wagon eventually decays.)

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48 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

The reason why unicorns cant be lead without taming them is because they are not agressive creatures. They dont attack you when you try to lead them/ride them. Theg would be hitched to carts and wagons, used as mounts and backups. That with the fact they are faster, stronger and can carry two preople, they would make hell horses and regular horses completely irrelevant, along with the taming skill.

 

Unicorns are faster and stronger than hellies? Interesting. Note that Fo priests (and others) can ride hellies without taming them, but get no such bonus with unicorns.

 

At any rate, unicorns feel somehow wrong as implemented, but I don't know what right looks like. I think for all the trouble it takes to actually use them, they should be more useful when used (if that makes any sense). Hellies are just easier to do useful things with.

 

If nothing else, I'd love to see a set of unique names for unicorns.

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8 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

Unicorns are faster and stronger than hellies? Interesting. Note that Fo priests (and others) can ride hellies without taming them, but get no such bonus with unicorns.

 

At any rate, unicorns feel somehow wrong as implemented, but I don't know what right looks like. I think for all the trouble it takes to actually use them, they should be more useful when used (if that makes any sense). Hellies are just easier to do useful things with.

 

If nothing else, I'd love to see a set of unique names for unicorns.

Wow, you worded what I was trying to get at so much more succinctly.  Especially the bit about unicorns feeling "wrong" but not really knowing how to fix it.  Nearest I could get was the idea of making them work more like hellies, but I'm open to other ideas. 

 

But yes, what Roccandil said, exactly that.  :)

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9 hours ago, Seriphina said:

Some people are into that girly girl stuff, and that's fine.

 

Im not sure what makes unicorns invoke such a denigrating tone

 

9 hours ago, Seriphina said:

If you're going to give it an ability, let it occasionally heal the rider if the rider is a female.

 

Wait, first its a derogatory comment now its a sexist suggestion? We took years to step away from ridiculous gender split mechanics and we don't need to head back there.

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They arent necesarily faster than hellhorses but they are stronger combatwise, are not agressive (meaning you wont split its head in two when you start riding it without taming), and will not get attacked by hostile mobs while you hunt on them. Basicly they would be a normal horse that can carry an extra passenger and do 40kmph. Thats super op.

 

A cart with hellhorses goes about 32kmph with awesome gear. A wagon goes maybe 18-20? Cant remember. Normal horses boost up to about 28? I'm guestimating.

 

Unicorns go naturally faster, and proc speed boost much more often. Thats why they need to be tamed.to be used. If they didnt have that mecanic, normal horses would be like riding a cow: no point to ride, and no one does it.

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38 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

They arent necesarily faster than hellhorses but they are stronger combatwise, are not agressive (meaning you wont split its head in two when you start riding it without taming), and will not get attacked by hostile mobs while you hunt on them. Basicly they would be a normal horse that can carry an extra passenger and do 40kmph. Thats super op.

 

A cart with hellhorses goes about 32kmph with awesome gear. A wagon goes maybe 18-20? Cant remember. Normal horses boost up to about 28? I'm guestimating.

 

Unicorns go naturally faster, and proc speed boost much more often. Thats why they need to be tamed.to be used. If they didnt have that mecanic, normal horses would be like riding a cow: no point to ride, and no one does it.

Ok that's interesting to know...thank you!  

But, I still don't think everyone would flock to unicorn use because of this.  Some people role play, some prefer a certain "look" and that may not involve unicorns.   Also, it doesn't seem to be happening on the Wurm Unlimited servers, so there is that as a testing ground.  Also, 40kmph is really fast...too fast for me!  Anything over thirty gives me sensory sickness and the potential for an incredibly painful migraine, that can last days, so I have to be careful.  30kmph is plenty fast for most things, anyway.  Unless you are traveling far.  25-30 is my happy range, when I need to go fast.  A regular geared up horse will do me fine for most travel (I have had more than to 30kmph on high gear riding horses, I should double check though...I stopped riding 5s in high gear because of this).  Even with unicorns available, I can't see switching to them completely.   I just can't imagine that having the "max speed" matters so much to everyone, but I could be wrong! 

 

If so, is there anything else that would make the unicorn more practical to use while keeping balance?  Because what is the point of making them so "op" if they're...well, OP when used, ...but too annoying to really use practically? 

 

I just feel like if the unicorns where made more readily usable like hellies, even if that required a bit of nerfing for the unicorns, there would be unicorn people and helly people and horse people, and those who use all three, and it would all be just fine. :)

Edited by Hypatia

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12 hours ago, SmeJack said:

 

Im not sure what makes unicorns invoke such a denigrating tone

 

 

Wait, first its a derogatory comment now its a sexist suggestion? We took years to step away from ridiculous gender split mechanics and we don't need to head back there.

First, what you consider to be a tone. Girly girl is a subset of the unicorn fan base and branding that is over the top with sparkles, pink, purple, and rainbows. It's an aesthetic I do not enjoy. A simple google search would have quickly explained my "tone". It's even bled into branding and marketing: https://www.toyuniverse.com.au/products/ravensburger-unicorns-girly-girl-3d-puzzle-storage-box https://www.crayons.com.au/ravensburger-unicorn-utensil-holder-girly-girl-54pc

 

Second, actually the comment isn't sexist if you take two seconds to look into the mythology of unicorns. 

 

" One of the earliest such interpretations appears in the ancient Greek bestiary known as the Physiologus, which states that the unicorn is a strong, fierce animal that can be caught only if a virgin maiden is thrown before it. The unicorn leaps into the virgin’s lap, and she suckles it and leads it to the king’s palace. Medieval writers thus likened the unicorn to Christ, who raised up a horn of salvation for mankind and dwelt in the womb of the Virgin Mary."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/unicorn

Furthermore, " Those who drank from its horn were thought to be protected from stomach trouble, epilepsy, and poison. It was very fleet of foot and difficult to capture." pulled from the same source coincides with the version of unicorns within Wurm in that they require high taming, and their parts, especially the horn, are potent ingredients for healing covers.

 

So no, not being sexist, rather being true to the history of the creature in mythology.

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A subset doesn't make it the only set.

If its a game mechanic for one gender and not the other then that is sexist and unbalanced.

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Unicorns are the meta! Havn't used any mount but unis for over a year.

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Person who made this post has absolutely no clue what he's on about. A unicorn is 

1st of all : Faster than a hell horse. Not by much, but me, and my whole kingdom tested it and they are indeed faster than a hellhorse

2nd of all : They have more hit points than a hellhorse, they're tankier, not by much but they're tankier

3rd : They only require 26 body control and 25+ taming skill to use.

 

Do your research before doing posts like these my man cause you spouting BS

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23 hours ago, Hypatia said:

And I'm not sure why they are so difficult to use since they have no special or magical properties other than being "unicorn"?

 

23 hours ago, Hypatia said:

I don't care, just please give them a purpose other than "unicorn"?:P

 

1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

A subset doesn't make it the only set.

If its a game mechanic for one gender and not the other then that is sexist and unbalanced.

Though it's not the only set, judging from the emoji use on behalf of the OP, it does seem to be the intended subset.

 

As far as the sexist game mechanic, a sarcastic comment (which was enthusiastically accepted by the OP, further cementing point #1) does not indicate it is a mechanic I would want. The point was made to highlight the absurdity of making unicorns yet more "special" within the scope of mythology of the creatures. The mythology is sexist, and degrading to women, which is part of what baffles me as to why the concept of unicorns is so embraced in modern pop culture. Please stop trying to defend whatever point you're trying to make by adding intended sexist context where it does not exist. Do you have any purpose in this conversation other than to try to call me sexist for some reason? I see no other comments on your part on the actual conversation at hand, nor do I see you trying to do any more than single me out and attempt to twist my words.

22 hours ago, Seriphina said:

Because in a game that goes out of it's way to maintain a level of immersion, commonplace mythological creatures lose any kind of delegation of being "special" and become rather jarring.

 

I'll just close by saying, please god, no.

 

-1

 

Herein I believe I was quite clear on my stance on any of this. 

Edited by Seriphina

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How many virgin maidens does wurm have?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

How many virgin maidens does wurm have?

 

 

Hard to say since beds only fit one wurmian and new wurmians are created through some strange email ceremony.

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I think part of solution could be either to allow one person to have 2 tamed unis at same time or not to unhitch them when untamed so they can be used for pulling cart by one player. I would like that more creatures are special in wurm, sea serpents, unicorns, sharks, whales...

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20 minutes ago, Seriphina said:

Hard to say since beds only fit one wurmian and new wurmians are created through some strange email ceremony.

-1 to mail order players

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1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

Person who made this post has absolutely no clue what he's on about. A unicorn is 

1st of all : Faster than a hell horse. Not by much, but me, and my whole kingdom tested it and they are indeed faster than a hellhorse

2nd of all : They have more hit points than a hellhorse, they're tankier, not by much but they're tankier

3rd : They only require 26 body control and 25+ taming skill to use.

 

 

I think the issue is that unlike hellies, to do -anything- with unicorns you have to tame them (lead/breed/hitch/etc.). That's a logistical burden that makes unicorn use impractical.

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49 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

 

I think the issue is that unlike hellies, to do -anything- with unicorns you have to tame them (lead/breed/hitch/etc.). That's a logistical burden that makes unicorn use impractical.

you dont need every animal to satisfy every need

You have hellhorses for carts

You have unicorns for riding.

Stop complaining 

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With that logic you should be able ride bison then.

 

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2 hours ago, kochinac said:

I think part of solution could be either to allow one person to have 2 tamed unis at same time or not to unhitch them when untamed so they can be used for pulling cart by one player. I would like that more creatures are special in wurm, sea serpents, unicorns, sharks, whales...

 

Honestly, animal taming/training in general could use a rework.

 

Part of this could be intermediate stages of taming, which I think I've mentioned elsewhere:
Basically, right now the training/taming progression is:

Totally neutral/hostile -> Will die for you

And nothing else. Taming brings it from the former to the latter, and then as loyalty is lost, it immediately drops back. And you can only have one tamed at a time, of course. There's no real nuance to it at all.

I would prefer something like this:
Hostile -> Neutral -> Domestic (lead, groom, breed) -> Tame (hitch, ride) -> Loyal (will fight for you and follow orders)

Plus or minus one stage, whatever works best.

 

Creatures would naturally start off at different stages, where applicable. A sheep would start off as "Domestic" and be relatively easy to get to "Tame", whereas a similar creature naturally "Neutral" instead would be harder to get up to "Tame" since it's further from their wild state.

 

Point being, a more gradual progression, so the system can be more flexible. Like, in this example, maybe you can still only have one "Loyal" pet, but multiple "Tame" creatures based on Animal Taming skill, similar to Animal Husbandry's "care for" limits. Maybe some of these stages could even be permanent, or at least long-term enough that regular grooming, manual feeding, etc. could be enough to keep your cart unicorns/hell horses happy enough to stay tame and usable.

 

Point being, by making "tameness" more graduated, making some of those stages longer-term, and tying that creature count to Animal Taming, this solves a few problems:

  1. No more instant jump from "I'll die for you and pull your wagon" to "I'm gonna try to murder you now after instantly unhitching"
  2. Ability to hitch multiple creatures requiring taming to vehicles, if your skill is good
  3. Better incentives to have high Animal Taming, for more domesticated critters
  4. Ability to breed hostile creatures without weird multi-character taming tricks or breeding a critter with another critter actively trying to kill you
  5. my freaking cats won't try to murder me every time I feed them (granted, this may be true to real life)
  6. Maybe age restrictions for hitching some animals could be loosened, and have this covered by the taming system?
Edited by Ostentatio
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19 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

The reason why unicorns cant be lead without taming them is because they are not agressive creatures. They dont attack you when you try to lead them/ride them. Theg would be hitched to carts and wagons, used as mounts and backups. That with the fact they are faster, stronger and can carry two preople, they would make hell horses and regular horses completely irrelevant, along with the taming skill.

 

-1

Yeah, but the whole carry two people thing is not a big bonus, last I check when two people mounted a unicorn it came to a crawl.

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2 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

 

Honestly, animal taming/training in general could use a rework.

 

Part of this could be intermediate stages of taming, which I think I've mentioned elsewhere:
Basically, right now the training/taming progression is:

Totally neutral/hostile -> Will die for you

And nothing else. Taming brings it from the former to the latter, and then as loyalty is lost, it immediately drops back. And you can only have one tamed at a time, of course. There's no real nuance to it at all.

I would prefer something like this:
Hostile -> Neutral -> Domestic (lead, groom, breed) -> Tame (hitch, ride) -> Loyal (will fight for you and follow orders)

Plus or minus one stage, whatever works best.

 

Creatures would naturally start off at different stages, where applicable. A sheep would start off as "Domestic" and be relatively easy to get to "Tame", whereas a similar creature naturally "Neutral" instead would be harder to get up to "Tame" since it's further from their wild state.

 

Point being, a more gradual progression, so the system can be more flexible. Like, in this example, maybe you can still only have one "Loyal" pet, but multiple "Tame" creatures based on Animal Taming skill, similar to Animal Husbandry's "care for" limits. Maybe some of these stages could even be permanent, or at least long-term enough that regular grooming, manual feeding, etc. could be enough to keep your cart unicorns/hell horses happy enough to stay tame and usable.

 

Point being, by making "tameness" more graduated, making some of those stages longer-term, and tying that creature count to Animal Taming, this solves a few problems:

  1. No more instant jump from "I'll die for you and pull your wagon" to "I'm gonna try to murder you now after instantly unhitching"
  2. Ability to hitch multiple creatures requiring taming to vehicles, if your skill is good
  3. Better incentives to have high Animal Taming, for more domesticated critters
  4. Ability to breed hostile creatures without weird multi-character taming tricks or breeding a critter with another critter actively trying to kill you
  5. my freaking cats won't try to murder me every time I feed them (granted, this may be true to real life)
  6. Maybe age restrictions for hitching some animals could be loosened, and have this covered by the taming system?

 

I really like these suggestions, and I'd add the following:

 

- For lower-level tameness, don't turn them allied/green, leave them neutral/blue. Only make an actual loyal pet an ally.

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