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Etherdrifter

Runes - An Equitable Solution

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Actually it's a pretty simple solution:

 

Allow all priests FULL (including improving) use of Fine Carpentry, Stonecutting and Jewellery Smithing.

 

Why?  That way they can gain skills in rune crafting on equal footing to existing players without extra kicks to the teeth.

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give them toymaking ropemaking and cloth tailoring too, because they need them to make their special sacc's!

 

-1 just depriest and grind them in the week it takes to get back to 30 my dude, runes are supposed to require a skillful smith working together with a priest with high sd to make the full thing, not for one guy to do it all. 

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25 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

give them toymaking ropemaking and cloth tailoring too, because they need them to make their special sacc's!

 

-1 just depriest and grind them in the week it takes to get back to 30 my dude, runes are supposed to require a skillful smith working together with a priest with high sd to make the full thing, not for one guy to do it all. 

So...  If it's not such a big deal, why not give that little extra QoL?

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the whole point of being a priest is that you give up almost everything you can do in order to get the favor of your god, if you want QoL a priest isn't for you.

"You may chose to become a priest of <your god>
If you answer yes, you will receive special powers from your deity, such as the ability to cast spells.
You must also walk this path if you strive to become a Champion of <your god>.
You will however by very limited in what you can do.
You will for instance not be able to do such things as dig, mine, improve items, or use alchemy.
You will also not be able to steal, pick locks or destroy structures to mention just a few other limitations.
If you later decide to become a Champion of <your god> these restrictions will be lifted.
As a Champion, you may only escape death a few times though.
If your faith ever fails you, you will lose your priesthood.
Do you want to become a priest of <your god> despite the severe limitations it will have on your actions?"

 

Give that a read since you seem to not have read it.

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I think the point Etherdrifter is making is that Runes are detracting from the usefulness of priests, which aside from new player gods and being able to sac chopped veggies, have not received updates in what feels like a decade.

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28 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

I think the point Etherdrifter is making is that Runes are detracting from the usefulness of priests, which aside from new player gods and being able to sac chopped veggies, have not received updates in what feels like a decade.

Pretty much; new spell content seems to be getting funnled into runes rather than priests.

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46 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Pretty much; new spell content seems to be getting funnled into runes rather than priests.

Runes are a system that is available to more players, rather than requiring them to have priest alts, which was a common complaint in the past. 

 

Limiting things to priests in order to favour the few who main priests despite knowing the drawbacks as opposed to providing quality of life and accessible content to most players would be quite backwards, and would not benefit your playstyle at all, merely force others to have premium priest alts to do the casting for them. 

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There is no way those runes are replacing priests any time soon, they are extremely time consuming to make and if you don't have the skills, they are not really all that useful.

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14 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Runes are a system that is available to more players, rather than requiring them to have priest alts, which was a common complaint in the past. 

 

Limiting things to priests in order to favour the few who main priests despite knowing the drawbacks as opposed to providing quality of life and accessible content to most players would be quite backwards, and would not benefit your playstyle at all, merely force others to have premium priest alts to do the casting for them. 

Although I do not agree with the suggestion, I am a bit in the fence with this response. Sure, limiting things to a smaller group of players is a bad move, but it wouldn't be so if priests werent forced to be alts in the first place. I think some effort should be put into making Priests more attractive as mains instead of shrugging our arms and just labeling them as alts. When a waylaid Vyn priest cant even light his own campfire to cook his own food... well, thats a bit silly, don't you think?

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54 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Runes are a system that is available to more players, rather than requiring them to have priest alts, which was a common complaint in the past. 

 

Limiting things to priests in order to favour the few who main priests despite knowing the drawbacks as opposed to providing quality of life and accessible content to most players would be quite backwards, and would not benefit your playstyle at all, merely force others to have premium priest alts to do the casting for them. 

 

Priests as alts, as a whole, was the "common complaint in the past", largely because myself and others made it, repeatedly.  Again, not the requirement to have a priest alt, the requirement that priests must BE alts by the very nature of their mechanics.

 

The current logic (enhancing priest restrictions by introducing more content locked out to them) is simply worsening the problem of "need a priest alt".

 

Priests can become runecrafters if you either exploit a mechanic (de-priest, grind needed skills (and all gathering skills linked to it), re-priest, re-grind faith), or grind the skills on creation ticks, but they'll have a much tougher time doing it than regular crafters.  It seems a bit "backward" that the magic based "class" on wurm has a harder time learning a magic based skill no?

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26 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

Priests as alts, as a whole, was the "common complaint in the past", largely because myself and others made it, repeatedly.  Again, not the requirement to have a priest alt, the requirement that priests must BE alts by the very nature of their mechanics.

 

The current logic (enhancing priest restrictions by introducing more content locked out to them) is simply worsening the problem of "need a priest alt".

 

Priests can become runecrafters if you either exploit a mechanic (de-priest, grind needed skills (and all gathering skills linked to it), re-priest, re-grind faith), or grind the skills on creation ticks, but they'll have a much tougher time doing it than regular crafters.  It seems a bit "backward" that the magic based "class" on wurm has a harder time learning a magic based skill no?

Nothing in the skill requires magic, other than the use.of.the 'arguably' magical nature of rift materials (I think rift materials are more 'demonic origin' than 'magical origin'. Extraplanar if you will). Its a costly and very rng way to get effects similar to spells applied to items. So no, they dont seem to be inherent to Priests.

 

What you are asking for is for an 'easy' way to be able.to create runes. You want to be able to imp without loosing faith. I know countless people who have depriested, grinded skills they need, then gone back and priested again, myself included: Blacksmith priests who want to easily craft their own weapons to enchant, PVP priests who want to grind body stats, even priests who need to make.their own houses. Not to mention champs are forced to regrind their faith once their 6 months are up.

 

Your complaint is a never ending one. You want a priest without restrictions. Before it was general crafts. Now its runes. Tomorrow it will be archeology or some new mechanic released that provides something you dont have. 

 

Depriest, grind your skill, priest back up. This is Wurm. Grinding is the name of the game. There is a mechanic in place to address your issue. What you suggest does not address a flaw in the game. It simply is a way for you to achieve something with much less effort.

 

-1.

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You know, I think you're right.  It is a never-ending complaint; at one time I wasn't the only one making them either. 

 

Take a look at the player count; those are the people who gave up complaining.

 

I reckon I'm done; you elitist *palms* are a waste of time and words.

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I honestly agree with loosening priest restrictions in some fashion, although not totally eliminating them. That said, that's not a problem with runes per se, nor do runes make what priests do significantly less valuable.

 

Depriesting to grind skills, meanwhile, is not really an "exploit"; after all, you do have to get your faith back up afterward.

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-1

 

Priest spells aren't "magic". They're channeling your faith into an object for a result. There are extreme limitations to be able to gain a deity's favor. That's how the entire class is designed.

 

Over and over your complaint is that you essentially want to play a wizard in a game that doesn't offer them. Priests aren't wizards. They shouldn't be able to do everything because they can do something powerful that others are barred from.

 

Thank you DEVS for giving more opportunities to the masses instead of another cash cow for the people who have high level casting/faith.

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

You know, I think you're right.  It is a never-ending complaint; at one time I wasn't the only one making them either. 

 

Take a look at the player count; those are the people who gave up complaining.

 

I reckon I'm done; you elitist *palms* are a waste of time and words.

 

When we can make w100 and c100 runes to enchant items without the need of a Vynora/other priest, you would have a legitimate complaint.

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

You know, I think you're right.  It is a never-ending complaint; at one time I wasn't the only one making them either. 

 

Take a look at the player count; those are the people who gave up complaining.

 

I reckon I'm done; you elitist *palms* are a waste of time and words.

 

Have you actually tried cranking out all these runes which are replacing your priest?

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Why is everyone speaking of priests as alts? A very big chunk of the comunity i play in have priests as main, and crafters as alts!

Me included.

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I understand where he is coming from. There is nothing wrong with loosening restrictions to make priest qol easier. For instance, I am all up for allowing all priests to do all 3 of the main gathering professions: Dig, cut wood and mine. It puts all priests on even ground and increases their use as support.

 

The issue is that this suggestion is not a QoL improvement suggestion. Its a "I want crafting professions too" suggestion. Creating runes has nothing to do with QoL improvements and does nothing in that regard. It simply allows someone to have another means to make money, something priests already have.

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Priest restrictions are an ongoing discussion, and several ideas have come up, it's not as simple as "let them grind skills" or "let them do everything" but more "what makes living as a main priest possible" 

 

Being a priest will ALWAYS restrict you as a crafter, it's the one "class" choice of a classless game, which will always grate, but we are looking at making them easier to play solo on. 

 

My comments about priest alts refer to the days when runes didn't exist, most players just had pocket priest alts to cast the spells they need, very few travelling spellcasters were in business and most felt they were forced to pay multiple premiums to be functional, runes addressed a few of those issues and we'd rather the content more accessible than going back to that 

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I'd consider allowing priests to repair walls and bash.

 

Priests do feel inconsistent in the context of Wurm, though. Shipbuilding is a far cry from weaponsmithing, but there is no "shipbuilder" class or "weaponsmith" class that locks out other types of crafting. Wurm relies on the sheer time it takes to grind skills to be a "soft" class lock.

 

Why not do something similar for priests? Make each spell something you have to grind separately (as child skills of channeling?), and then unlock priests completely. That way you can decide if you want to spend your time grinding a bunch of priest spells and few/none crafting skills, or grinding a bunch of crafting skills, and a few/none priest skills.

 

(Yeah, I know that would be a pain for existing priests, but maybe you could get a one-time deal where you take all the skill points you'd earned in channeling, and distribute them among spells, or get a certain amount of child skill points to distribute based on your channeling.)

Edited by Roccandil

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12 hours ago, Roccandil said:

I'd consider allowing priests to repair walls and bash.

 

Priests do feel inconsistent in the context of Wurm, though. Shipbuilding is a far cry from weaponsmithing, but there is no "shipbuilder" class or "weaponsmith" class that locks out other types of crafting. Wurm relies on the sheer time it takes to grind skills to be a "soft" class lock.

 

Why not do something similar for priests? Make each spell something you have to grind separately (as child skills of channeling?), and then unlock priests completely. That way you can decide if you want to spend your time grinding a bunch of priest spells and few/none crafting skills, or grinding a bunch of crafting skills, and a few/none priest skills.

 

(Yeah, I know that would be a pain for existing priests, but maybe you could get a one-time deal where you take all the skill points you'd earned in channeling, and distribute them among spells, or get a certain amount of child skill points to distribute based on your channeling.)

I am not against this idea, but it would require a major overhaul of the priest system. More, people who have invested into priests may end up with something that is not what they purchased/grinded their priest for. Plus, there is no way for staff to please everyone.

 

I think that a revision of priest limitations as @Retrogradesuggests is the right way forward. Many ideas have been pushed forward and I am sure staff is considering them. Just keep making your suggestions and brainstorming!

 

 

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I am not really for removing most priest restrictions. I do favor the allow priests the gather skills. I find this the largest restriction.

 

On the other hand, I do agree priests need some love. Virtually none of the changes in the past 2 years have been priest specific. Some could say the favor changes with chopped veggies, but that was more balance than boost and chopping 10,000 veggies isn't that big a difference than making 10,000 ropes except maybe ql, which could have been normalized, rather than left random.

 

So please, find some love for priests, even if you have to kill player gods to buff the main 3.

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13 hours ago, Roccandil said:

I'd consider allowing priests to repair walls and bash.

 

Priests do feel inconsistent in the context of Wurm, though. Shipbuilding is a far cry from weaponsmithing, but there is no "shipbuilder" class or "weaponsmith" class that locks out other types of crafting. Wurm relies on the sheer time it takes to grind skills to be a "soft" class lock.

 

Why not do something similar for priests? Make each spell something you have to grind separately (as child skills of channeling?), and then unlock priests completely. That way you can decide if you want to spend your time grinding a bunch of priest spells and few/none crafting skills, or grinding a bunch of crafting skills, and a few/none priest skills.

 

(Yeah, I know that would be a pain for existing priests, but maybe you could get a one-time deal where you take all the skill points you'd earned in channeling, and distribute them among spells, or get a certain amount of child skill points to distribute based on your channeling.)

I actually really like this idea since it's in true nature of wurm, that is classless and that you can be anything you want if you put your time into it, and also bring max cast result close to skill so you can't fluke 100 cast with 50 skill to further balance it. That might even remove need for shattering. I understand people would be upset, I myself have 2 priests from which one has over 93 channeling, but this proposal seems much more fun and immersive than current system to me. People could make their own crafter/caster combo like grinding blacksmithing and botd/coc/wow spells, grinding weaponsmithing/life transfer /frostband spells... Speaking of which in that case spells should also be fully revised to adjust and possibly reinvented. This will also make the players to trade more since not all spells are at one powerbank priest player and tbh enchants market also became pretty ridiculous

Edited by kochinac

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