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KanePT

How is Wurm?

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Hey guys!

I've been away for like 3 years now, so how's Wurm?

Is everyone playing Unlimited or are there still some old-school wurmians in the Freedom Isles?

The old server status thingy on the forums is gone.

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Welcome back! :) 

 

If you've still got your character - or even if you need to make a new one - jump back in and find out for yourself :) 

 

There's so much new stuff to see and do!

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I've been playing Wurm Online for a little over a year and a half.  Each of the Freedom Isles has established players, and Xanadu has a large churn of new players. The development team is considerably larger than in the past,  with 13 developers actively working on the game.  As a result, they're producing a LOT of new content - new skills, new material types for building, new material types for armor, weapons, and tools, new graphics, soon a new UI, etc.

The economy seems to be a thing for returning players. The economy doesn't resemble what you may remember.  Even with new blood, it's a fairly mature playerbase, with many people having been here 5, 10, 12, and longer years.  So there's a lot less opportunities for commerce.  But I self-fund the game with commerce, and there are opportunities for everyone who wants to be a seller to succeed (if they just pay attention to the market as it shifts).

Wurm Online is a very social place, the forums continue to be quite active, and Discord is active.   You don't see as many people in-game as I'm told you used to.  That's also a good thing, as it means you can make a new home for your character anywhere you want, because there's plenty of available tiles.

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22 minutes ago, KanePT said:

Hey guys!

I've been away for like 3 years now, so how's Wurm?

Is everyone playing Unlimited or are there still some old-school wurmians in the Freedom Isles?

The old server status thingy on the forums is gone.

 

It's different, but still clinging to life. There are people around, but as Finndar said, not as many as there used to be. The game is very top heavy - lots of high skilled players and few new ones.

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Hoping with Sindusk joining the dev team will bring some active changes to PvP which for sure would bring some people back to Wurm Online.  People selling out because PvP not getting any real attention.  Maybe this gets them buying back in. 

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Wurm is still lacking in a lot of areas but it's improving gradually. With the introduction of a few new developers some very talented ones, noticeable improvements are starting to occur.

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A lot has changed in the last tree years and the best sandbox mmo got even better :)

And the WO and WU population seems pretty even right now.

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The player population feels pretty low on the larger servers (Xanadu feels practically haunted!) and, if you play a priest on PvE, you're not going to find much new that you can sink your teeth into.

 

But if you're among the vast majority (crafters), the game has come a long way and the continued improvements are pretty neat.

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It's still ###### amazing without you and your terrible suggestions 

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On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 8:25 PM, KanePT said:

I've been away for like 3 years now, so how's Wurm?

One thing you could do to find out a lot of information is to read through the Valrei International posts in City Hall, as they list all the new additions to the game as they become available. Also the Patch Notes in the Website News section cover all the specifics.

 

I would agree that the introduction of Wurm Unlimited did draw off a good portion of the Wurm Online population. Yet even then, some players continue to play both versions of the game.

 

Best bet to see is just to *sneak* into WO and take a look around at some of the more active Villages to see what they have done with all the new creative additions made to the game. I find the progress in this respect to have been most enjoyable, with many new options to choose from.

 

=Ayes=

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There are over 100 players waiting to pvp again and we don't need new content to fix the reasons why we are still waiting.

Edited by madnezz
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On 7/6/2018 at 3:45 PM, Etherdrifter said:

The player population feels pretty low on the larger servers (Xanadu feels practically haunted!) and, if you play a priest on PvE, you're not going to find much new that you can sink your teeth into.

 

But if you're among the vast majority (crafters), the game has come a long way and the continued improvements are pretty neat.

 

Unfortunately that's because it is low. It's the lowest I've seen since 2009. Here's the premium accounts graph:

http://jenn001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/paying.html

2mgjb5t.jpg

 

Last year we dropped to 3k premium players and I thought that was low. Now we're less than 2400. At this point I think WO has corned itself. The population is spread far too thin to get the same experience you could have years ago and the solution to that is to close some servers, but nobody wants that (understandably) because they will lose hundreds of hours of work they've put into their deeds.

 

Either way, I'll likely get flamed for saying this, but the devs need to start making drastic changes, to both the economy and the population spread, or the game is toast within the next 2 - 3 years. 

 

Over the past 10 years I've watched all of the features that kept the in-game economy healthly be stripped away. To name a few:

  • Removal of wood/metal scrap failures - This one had the biggest impact on item value. Back then, when you failed to craft something, you really failed. Now we have mostly soft-fails.
  • Reduced decay rates/damage
  • Removal of inventory decay for most items
  • Reduced tool damage
  • Reduced deed prices/costs
  • Reduced mail costs
  • Breaking traders even more than they were in 2009/2010

That's obviously not all of them., but if anyone thinks the in-game economy doesn't matter in a game like this, they are either extremely ignorant or naive. Removing useful money sinks or features that ensure a certain level of item turnover, is not exactly smart, especially after each one had a negative impact on the in-game market. I understand why each one was removed/changed of course, but no alternative was added for many of them to maintain economic balance.

 

The question I hear most from newbies is "how to make money in this game?". The only answer left in the game's current state is some form of "spamming bulk items", but as expected, not many newbies want to spend hours/days grinding on such items with their extremely low skills, so few of them stick around for long, if at all.

 

The biggest hit of them all of course was Wurm Unlimited. While the idea was good, the execution was horrible. Before WU, WO was well over 6k premium accounts and still gaining towards 7k. After WU, it lost over 1000 players within 6 months. All in the name of a quick buck. Even to this day, I cannot comprehend why WO was not also released on Steam.

 

The economy isn't the only thing in the toilet. PVP is too. Now, I've not done much of it, but I've been around long enough to know that before Epic split the PVP playerbase in half (and then proceeded to decimate it with countless bugs), there were far, far more PVP players around than now. Splitting a playerbase is never a good move (as WU has also proven).

 

I absolutely love Wurm and despite all the above, everything else the developers have added in the last 2 years has been nothing short of amazing, but all of that is going to go to waste if the main problems are not fixed very soon. It sucks to see it die a slow death when so many things can be done to prevent its decline (and even turn it around).  It really isn't going to matter how much extra content you add to the game, if the core issues are not fixed, it's simply isn't going to retain players.

 

Marketing it in it's current state wouldn't help long-term, since it can't even retain many (if any) of the new players that do try WO currently.

 

I know this is definitely not what people want to hear, but things like closing servers or significantly altering/re-balancing the economy are going to have to be done at some point. Even if that means implementing a way to copy-paste deeds between servers to avoid the loss of people's time and effort. I just hope it's not left until WO's playerbase is too low to recover, which isn't that far off.?

 

EDIT: I apologize if this sounds/looks like a rant, I'm just disappointed to see each year since 2015, the player count decrease in pretty large amounts.?

Edited by syncaidius
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1 hour ago, syncaidius said:

Either way, I'll likely get flamed for saying this, but the devs need to start making drastic changes, to both the economy and the population spread, or the game is toast within the next 2 - 3 years. 

 

Over the past 10 years I've watched all of the features that kept the in-game economy healthly be stripped away. To name a few:

  • Removal of wood/metal scrap failures - This one had the biggest impact on item value. Back then, when you failed to craft something, you really failed. Now we have mostly soft-fails.
  • Reduced decay rates/damage
  • Removal of inventory decay for most items
  • Reduced tool damage
  • Reduced deed prices/costs
  • Reduced mail costs
  • Breaking traders even more than in 2009

 

This has turned into the same old discussion here on to "save" the game from its "inevitable" demise. All the things you listed as problematic to the game "economy" have decreased the costs of playing the game for everyone, except of course those who would profit financially from selling items to other players and taking advantage of opportunities. Only really the reduced deed costs and mail costs directly reduce game income since they are not player mechanics that can be used for personal profit. Yet those reduced costs benefit everyone financially by reducing the costs for playing the game. Even more so the reduced mail costs greatly encourage trade among players since most purchases and improvements to items go through the mail. Somehow you think to list this as problematic when even those who profit from increasing the game costs to promote their trade (making money) are benefited from mailed items reduced to 1c in contrast to 10c.

 

Sure some people play the game because of these effects listed and yet they cost everyone else more to play the game. So all the changes you have listed here I see as positive effects since I and many/most others pay to play the game directly out of their own financial reserves obtained from outside the game. 

 

1 hour ago, syncaidius said:

I know this is definitely not what people want to hear, but things like closing servers or significantly altering/re-balancing the economy are going to have to be done at some point.

 

As for this idea, it really eludes me as to how it would create anything but loss for all those who play and continue to play the game because of the Villages that they have created. Somehow packing players into more confined spaces (fewer servers) will "encourage" them to interact more and make the game seem more populated? If the objective is to create more player interaction, making the game more attractive and enjoyable to those who are positively influenced by this aspect, then I see a far better way to do so. That would be to make it easy for this to happen by having Portals able to be created on every deed to every starter Village. Then at every starter Village have a Portal to every other server. This would make social gatherings and visits to other players readily available with minimal time devoted to traveling to them. This system can be easily created by the Developers since it is already in existence in the game but in a much more restricted format.

 

Even then these points are not what will "cure" the decline in the Wurm Online population and I think they are the wrong direction to look if that is the goal. Wurm Unlimited is now the great direct competitor to WO since it is basically the same game. Yet this has had some positive effects in that ideas from the Modders there and certain concepts have been gradually and gently introduced into WO. Until WO can become as player friendly *time wise* as WU it will always have the lesser advantage, thus drawing more players to it (WU) who prefer this style of game. The *time* needed to accomplish anything is the great destroyer of the WO player and as you see, only the strongly determined survive. Reducing some of these time sinks are the most beneficial changes for the game population as a whole, as well as new players to come. This is I think what should be focused upon as an improvement to player enjoyment and retention.

 

Beyond all this, if a person plays the game to enjoy the creative sandbox elements which are its core, then I only see the game as accelerating positively in these respects by what the Developers have added to it over these past number of years. What the future holds in this respect I have no control over, so I don't see it as my problem to resolve, which pretty much frees me up to just enjoy what the game has to offer.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
?
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On 7/6/2018 at 12:16 PM, Wulfmaer said:

The server status thingy is available from http://wurmonline.com/status-new/

 

And https://www.niarja.com/servers gives a nice graph of the last day, as well as other information.

Oh wow... 20 in exodus...

 

On 7/6/2018 at 1:30 AM, Muse said:

Welcome back! :) 

 

If you've still got your character - or even if you need to make a new one - jump back in and find out for yourself :) 

 

There's so much new stuff to see and do!

Not really back though, but thanks. I just popped in to see how it's going.

I've realized that, but honestly, from what people said here and what the server status says, it seems the game is worse than it was when i quit. The main appeal to this is the community, and with it dwindling, i don't see much appeal to it.

The most fun i had with this game was when i created a big ass deed at the top of a mountain and terraformed it into a "training" deed that housed a bunch of new players.

 

But honestly i don't miss spending 8 hours a day spamming sword blades to get a 0,01 increase in weapon smithing.

 

On 7/7/2018 at 10:30 PM, Cornchips said:

It's still ###### amazing without you and your terrible suggestions 

Good to be remembered. Sorry, i don't have the faintest of who you are though.

It might have been a better game if some of those were implemented!

 

Good to know the game is still going, sad to know it's not really thriving. There was a time where i would spend most of my time on Wurm. I don't regret those days, and its fun to look at a map of exo and see that on the last map dump most of my old deeds are still quite like i left them.

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On 7/11/2018 at 10:34 AM, syncaidius said:

 

Unfortunately that's because it is low. It's the lowest I've seen since 2009. Here's the premium accounts graph:

http://jenn001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/paying.html

2mgjb5t.jpg

 

Last year we dropped to 3k premium players and I thought that was low. Now we're less than 2400. At this point I think WO has corned itself. The population is spread far too thin to get the same experience you could have years ago and the solution to that is to close some servers, but nobody wants that (understandably) because they will lose hundreds of hours of work they've put into their deeds.

`Yearly' Graph (1 Day Average)

year

  Max Average Current
Returning: 3069 players 2628 players 2276 players
Total: 3071 players 2630 players 2278 players

 

 

Yikes 55 less premium accounts in 3 weeks. ?

 

Every day 2-3 players stop paying premium/playing.

Edited by FranktheTank

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On 7/12/2018 at 1:36 AM, Ayes said:

Yet those reduced costs benefit everyone financially by reducing the costs for playing the game. Even more so the reduced mail costs greatly encourage trade among players since most purchases and improvements to items go through the mail. Somehow you think to list this as problematic when even those who profit from increasing the game costs to promote their trade (making money) are benefited from mailed items reduced to 1c in contrast to 10c.

 

No, the reduced mail cost encourages sending your tools/armor to whoever's got the highest skill, because they'll imp it the fastest and therefore sell it cheaper, screwing over anyone that's not a turboautist. If you don't have 95+ in a skill it's more effective to forage for your coins. There used to be actual trade in this game, bulk for imps, high ql tools for enchants from the one priest within an hour of your deed that can do high enchants, now it's just have 95+ skill and undercut everyone else to maybe get a couple of customers a day. It may be cheaper for someone that buys silver to spend ingame but it screwed over nearly everyone that traded. If you think mailing for 1c helps smaller traders you were probably dropped on your head repetitively. The market being bad is a huge issue for player retention, trading was and always will be one of the main selling points of the game due to its nature.

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On 7/11/2018 at 11:36 AM, Ayes said:

The *time* needed to accomplish anything is the great destroyer of the WO player and as you see, only the strongly determined survive. Reducing some of these time sinks are the most beneficial changes for the game population as a whole, as well as new players to come. This is I think what should be focused upon as an improvement to player enjoyment and retention.

 

Not only does Wurm require a great deal of time, it also maintains a steady stream of failure for core gameplay: skilling, imping, creation, enchanting.

 

That is an enormous mistake. Every time an action fails, the game tells the player they wasted their time, and there's no escaping failures, especially for new players. I've heard excuses and hand-waving to justify that, but the truth is this:

 

Wurm makes it very easy for new players to quit.

 

I find that mind-boggling. A game requiring as much time investment as Wurm should -never-, EVER tell a new player to leave. Everything a new player does should be incrementally rewarding: EVERYTHING.

 

And that should never stop. The game should draw in players with successive micro-gratifications, not push them away with repeated failures the first time they try to light a campfire.

 

For myself, I would have quit long ago without the Epic update that, to an extent, performed the above correction to skilling. In the old system, when I realized what it took to grind a skill via the 1-39 system, I was infuriated.

 

After the change, however, in which nearly every action gave me a small skill reward, my experience shifted 180 degrees, and I had fun leveling many skills to 90+. (In Epic, this is best done at low QL, so the failure nightmare is largely avoided.)

 

Even now, however, I dread crafting or enchanting sessions, and eventually my fun in the game will dip below the ever-increasing frustration, and I'll leave too.

 

If I ever develop my own game, one thing I have learned and determined: I will do everything in my power to -not- treat potential customers the way Wurm does.

Edited by Roccandil
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The only thing that hasn't been tweaked for the players is the cost of premium, which is the single-most complaint from every person I have ever tried to get interested in Wurm,  "You pay how much to play?  Yeah, no thanks!"  The second major flaw to Wurm is silver tied directly to a real currency.  I still cannot fathom why anyone would pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a Wurm asset - be it character or item.  This top-heavy population is eventually going to flip and sink Wurm unless something changes with the economy and the premium costs associated with playing.

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:34 PM, syncaidius said:

 

Unfortunately that's because it is low. It's the lowest I've seen since 2009. Here's the premium accounts graph:

http://jenn001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/paying.html

2mgjb5t.jpg

 

Last year we dropped to 3k premium players and I thought that was low. Now we're less than 2400. At this point I think WO has corned itself. The population is spread far too thin to get the same experience you could have years ago and the solution to that is to close some servers, but nobody wants that (understandably) because they will lose hundreds of hours of work they've put into their deeds.

Let's  face it, there are also other solutions than shut down servers.. one thing would be limiting new player spawns to one-two servers for example. Don't allow new deeds to some servers, existing ones stay intact. Nothing would be deleted, but eventually players would concentrate on certain servers, making player experience bit better than current ghost towns. If population increases, open up some of the "closed" servers and done.

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2 hours ago, KanePT said:

But honestly i don't miss spending 8 hours a day spamming sword blades to get a 0,01 increase in weapon smithing.

What?

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On 7/31/2018 at 4:46 PM, Eyesgood said:

The only thing that hasn't been tweaked for the players is the cost of premium, which is the single-most complaint from every person I have ever tried to get interested in Wurm,  "You pay how much to play?  Yeah, no thanks!"  The second major flaw to Wurm is silver tied directly to a real currency.  I still cannot fathom why anyone would pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a Wurm asset - be it character or item.  This top-heavy population is eventually going to flip and sink Wurm unless something changes with the economy and the premium costs associated with playing.

Hey Eyes!! I remember you!!

 

Yeah, i've said so a lot of times, Wurm is way too dependent on the "old guard" and doesn't provide incentive for new players. Now with the wave of "minecraft derivatives" that was spawned with the success of Wurm's baby brother you have a ton of games that look and feel alot like Wurm, but much more polished, with better graphs and systems.

 

Wurm was great back in 2009 or something when i first played it, because i mean, there was really nothing else like Wurm. The problem is, the game never improved the core problems with it, but mainly the overall lack of interaction, i mean if nothing changed 90% of wurm game time is looking at a progress bar filling up. That pretty much covers all the things that led me to stop playing and just let my ~500+€ deeds and stuff decay and get plundered, i didn't even bother to auction my stuff, that's how tired i was of Wurm.

It's a second job playing this, and while if you don't look at any alternatives, Wurm is awesome, as soon as you start looking, it kinda starts being obvious just how bad of an experience it is. And given that it's bleeding away the only real asset that it had, the community and the economy. I don't think it's worth thinking of returning, really.

 

On 7/31/2018 at 5:43 PM, armyskin said:

What?

Yeah, 0.01 is a lot, more like 0,001 increases. It's been 3 years since i've played, so.

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On 7/11/2018 at 7:34 AM, syncaidius said:

 Unfortunately that's because it is low. It's the lowest I've seen since 2009 ...

The biggest hit of them all of course was Wurm Unlimited. While the idea was good, the execution was horrible. Before WU, WO was well over 6k premium accounts and still gaining towards 7k ...

 

 

Some good stuff but at least two quite incorrect facts. Population was much lower in 2010 and 2011 than now (I am not sure how many were lost when Rolf briefly opened the PvE home areas to PvP raiding), but regardless, it was lower in 2010/2011 so "lowest since 2009" is clearly incorrect, it took a sudden increase in the next few years after that as Wurm opened to "free" players and added new servers  as the old pve server of Indy was pretty badly overcrowded, and the new servers added a great deal of excitement and boosted populations :

 

VqWr5.png

 

Second, Wurm was losing players at an escalated rate LONG before WU and was NOT on some mythic climb  to 7k just prior to WU -- since 2014 the game was on a clear and steady DECLINE, boosted very briefly by the introduction of Xanadu and bridges and the Elevation reset, before returning again to a long slow decline:

 

etbbyCh.png

 

Last time we were close to 6k, let alone the idea of hitting eventually 7k,  was back in 2014 .   There was a very SMALL bump up again in early 2015 clearly tied to the Elevation reset and bridges, but after that  we were pretty steadily losing over 100 players a month. If WU had actually escalated that rate over  the past three years, we would be closer to 500 players today, instead of eventually stabilizing in the years immediately after WU to around 2500 now. WU in fact was what made it possible for them to hire many more devs, over a dozen devs today, adding massive amounts of new content on a regular basis that has actually slowed the decline between 2015 and 2018. (There is still a decline, just no longer 100 players a month)  And, some new players came to WO specifically after trying out WU, and wanting a server/amin system that was much more reliable steady and consistent than some of the more erratic WU servers, where some people start new servers in great excitment then close them 6 months later because they are bored or got a new job.

 

I was trying to find some graphs specifically looking at 2015-2018, because we have had this discussion before about the impact of WU on WO,  but can;t find them now. Perhaps BDew (who made most of the "population over time" graphs in the last decade), can do an updated chart looking at Wurm over the past 10 year period, which will make actual trends much easier to spot.   In any case, one thing that won't help, is people relying on "memory myths" to make points on causes/solutions for Wurm.  

 

____

 

PS: the biggest issue with Wurm's economy was it was from the start built on a "Pyramid Scheme" where early adopters who maxxed their skills the soonest and fastest, could corner the markets, buy and sell accounts, manipulate traders, and relegate newer players to a  source of fresh income for veterans and a source of cheap brick-making labor. That was very clear even back in 2011-2015. It also was based on the false idea that if you kept feeding massive cash to high level players via trader accounts etc, the benefits would "trickle down" to everyone else. Instead, high level players simply stopped buying silver and subscriptions, and instead started selling silver and gold as a regular form of real life profit, while newer players to the game realized no one wanted them for anything but making bricks for 30c an hour, and left.

 

That was an economy  "Bubble" that was completely unsustainable and quite unsurprising for it to eventually burst.

 

There are also a TON more new building-crafting-survival games today than when Wurm started. Wurm has competition to a degree it never had in the past, players have a lot more freedom to expect and get certain conveniences, and at far less cost than Wurm, since most games now require a relatively small "upfront" cost to buy the game and after that, no ongoing expense.  Very few games in 2018 require ongoing subscriptions, and many of those that do, players can pay $100 a year for a "package subscription" that covers 100 games

 

I am pretty sure Wurm can still be "saved," but not if we base the causes of it's decline on personal biases and misremembered facts.

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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4 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

PS: the biggest issue with Wurm's economy was it was from the start built on a "Pyramid Scheme" where early adopters who maxxed their skills the soonest and fastest, could corner the markets, buy and sell accounts, manipulate traders, and relegate newer players to a  source of fresh income for veterans and a source of cheap brick-making labor. That was very clear even back in 2011-2015. It also was based on the false idea that if you kept feeding massive cash to high level players via trader accounts etc, the benefits would "trickle down" to everyone else. Instead, high level players simply stopped buying silver and subscriptions, and instead started selling silver and gold as a regular form of real life profit, while newer players to the game realized no one wanted them for anything but making bricks for 30c an hour, and left.

 

That was an economy  "Bubble" that was completely unsustainable and quite unsurprising for it to eventually burst.

 

There are also a TON more new building-crafting-survival games today than when Wurm started. Wurm has competition to a degree it never had in the past, players have a lot more freedom to expect and get certain conveniences, and at far less cost than Wurm, since most games now require a relatively small "upfront" cost to buy the game and after that, no ongoing expense.  Very few games in 2018 require ongoing subscriptions, and many of those that do, players can pay $100 a year for a "package subscription" that covers 100 games

 

I am pretty sure Wurm can still be "saved," but not if we base the causes of it's decline on personal biases and misremembered facts.

 

But the benefits DID trickle down to everyone else. The same newbies, who sold their labor, they ALL benefited from cheap money of the traders. It was cheap brick making labor as you say, but new player joined the game, they had a way making money. But now? Put yourself into new players shoes, to make money, what do you do? It is only now, that noone needs them. But before there was interaction on market between old players and new players. Goods(labor) went up, money came down.

 

If you don't believe me. Think about it a bit. Changes are in for long time.. Traders aren't a thing, newbies aren't any more a cheap source of labor etc.. Basically all the things, which were causes of problems in economy(for the game) have been "fixed".. But have things improved? Nope, it has actually gone worse. So I think it is safe to claim, that those things fixed, weren't really a problem.

 

To the devs, if you don't really understand the "ecosystem", don't touch it. Fixing one thing might make things a lot worse somewhere else.

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