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Clywde

A kind request from a paying customer (DEVS/STAFF response required)

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7 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

This would require completely changing Wurm's network architecture and how the server code functions. This would be an incredibly arduous undertaking.

 

You're suggesting changing what types of servers Wurm has, how they communicate with each other, and all underlying code relying on that, while also saying that things wouldn't have to be rewritten "from scratch"; they basically would, at least enough to make this a non-starter.

Yeah, it requires a lot of work, but it would have some positive effect with this lag issue. There is another way too. If a player loses his stuff or dies because of the lag, then wurm should have a way (and will) to compensate player losses before they quit the game :)

Edited by Clywde

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2 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Yeah, it requires a lot of work, but it would have some positive effect with this lag issue.

 

You know what, I think it's a great idea!

 

Ok so, the plan is, since you are evidently a knowledgable coder, you go make a WU mod that achieves this, just for a 2x2 server cluster, shouldn't take you long right?

 

You get back to me with the results, I'll personally see it the devs implement it, and I'm sure they'd front you some premium time too, to make up for the time it takes!

 

Win win right?

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10 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

You know what, I think it's a great idea!

 

Ok so, the plan is, since you are evidently a knowledgable coder, you go make a WU mod that achieves this, just for a 2x2 server cluster, shouldn't take you long right?

 

You get back to me with the results, I'll personally see it the devs implement it, and I'm sure they'd front you some premium time too, to make up for the time it takes!

 

Win win right?

Sounds like you assume I should work for free? A subscription wouldnt fill the expenses. I charge more money / hour than a month sub, so ? I'd like to work for real money...

Edited by Clywde

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15 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Yeah, it requires a lot of work, but it would have some positive effect with this lag issue. There is another way too. If a player loses his stuff or dies because of the lag, then wurm should have a way (and will) to compensate player losses before they quit the game :)

 

 

Wurm Online is a product that has grown organically and in unexpected ways over more than a decade of time. With projects like that, it's almost inevitable that things could have been done better in hindsight, or that a total rework could hypothetically improve things. However, the amount of work involved means this is very rarely feasible, especially for a small development team.

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It's a small community game pretty much.  I wish there was big changes also since it's such a unique game, but have to take Wurm Online for what it is.  No other game has came close to being what Wurm Online is.  I've played the others and was hoping Life is Feudal MMO would be Wurm's successor, but it's not that great of a game and makes me want to come back to Wurm Online even more.

 

If you have some skills then do something in Wurm Unlimited and then maybe those changes can be put into Wurm Online.  Look at Bdew.  A lot of stuff from Bdew comes over from Wurm Unlimited mods to Wurm Online and I don't even think he gets paid.  Hope he gets free premium at least.  lol  Wasn't Bdew the reason we finally have stuff on tables?

Edited by nicedreams
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4 hours ago, Clywde said:

Please read the first description "the fact of having a right to something". As a PAYING CUSTOMER I have a right to get something ;)
 

 

As a paying customer you have a right to the service which is being provided.

 

If you don't like the service, you can quit paying.

 

Spending money does not entitle you to arbitrary demands regarding Quality of Service. 

 

tldr; 404 Contract Not Found. 

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And also I work with a ton of database servers and you can't just cluster everything and it goes faster.  Doesn't work that way.  A lot of times the program has to be cluster aware to work properly.  For example; just because you have a Quad Core processor doesn't mean your games use all cores.  I think most of the games out there were optimized not to use more than 2 cores even if you have more.  Most Battlefield games will only use 2 cores even if you have more will still use ONLY 2 cores.

 

I also have huge medical database servers in where even putting in a SSD didn't make much difference.  SSD is great and normally HUGE difference, but once it's all cached in ram you can pretty much take the SSD out of the server and it will keep running.

 

I've gotten some servers running faster after converting physical hardware to KVM using Debian.  I like it a lot more than ESX which I've used a lot over the years, but moving those to KVM.  Make sure to use RAW and not QCOW2.

 

Then of course I live in North America and the servers are in Europe so I get more lag than others too.

 

They would have to re-write a lot of the foundation code to make it work 100% and I don't see that ever happening.  They won't even fix PvP.  lol

 

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I'd rather not have more loading times, so not a fan of the whole cutting the server up thingy. Also I don't think people would like having deeds their cut up in pieces.

The lag ain't even that much of a problem anyway. You get a lag spike once a while but we used to get those too on the other servers some years ago.

 

Edited by Timoca

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46 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Sounds like you assume I should work for free?

 

Think about that for a while.

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4 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Kids these days. I tell ye.

 

Okay okay. Want a description of the Xanadu server architecture?

 

...well, I snuck up into Rolf's garage and took pictures of the Xanadu server during peak times.

 

giphy.gif

 

Look, we're running as fast as we can, and we can't turn the hamster wheel and completely rewrite the server code at the same time.

 

...also, I got the giggles, and now I can't remember what I just changed in the code. 

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22 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

Think about that for a while.

I might take a look at the code for free, but if I ever manage to create a solution, it wouldnt be free. Btw, do you know where the code is available for browsing? And is there a guide to setup dev environment?

Edited by Clywde

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Thing is the way Wurm works there HAS to be water between servers, so splitting Xanadu in 4 would be problematic to begin with as some said, until someone figures out a way to code land crossing among servers which I doubt hasn't been tried yet.

 

To split Xanadu, even if someone took the time to split it into 4 databases by quadrant AND managing to get it into 4 new servers AND load, THEN terraformed the "+" among the server (guessing a few thousand man hours of GM wand action), THEN took the map file and managed to properly cut it into 4 functional files..... well there are just too many moving parts for it to not blow up.  May be faster to redesign the engine from the ground up and just start a new MMO which brings us back to the mythical and debunked Wurm II.

I'm partial toward trying on some serious RAID action but I think the code's still the biggest factor.  Streamlining the database could be the worthwhile huge project but once again, sounds like a Wurm II size job.

 

The beta tag on Xan may be the best bet to give new players a fair warning.  I do agree, as someone who left Xanadu, that it's rather not worth the price tag vs stability.  That server you either love it or you don't live there.  For those willing to put up with some quirkyness, the map itself is rather gorgeous.

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2 minutes ago, Clywde said:

I might take a look at the code for free, but if I ever manage to create a solution, it wouldnt be free. Btw, do you know where the code is available for browsing? And is there a guide to setup dev environment?

 

Grab a copy of WU.... it's on sale for a buck somewhere half the time heh heh.

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45 minutes ago, Timoca said:

I'd rather not have more loading times, so not a fan of the whole cutting the server up thingy. Also I don't think people would like having deeds their cut up in pieces.

The lag ain't even that much of a problem anyway. You get a lag spike once a while but we used to get those too on the other servers some years ago.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

Thing is the way Wurm works there HAS to be water between servers, so splitting Xanadu in 4 would be problematic to begin with as some said, until someone figures out a way to code land crossing among servers which I doubt hasn't been tried yet.

 

My cell servers would work transparently. Player wouldn't notice one switched to another server :) Cell servers would not work like current separate servers...

Edited by Clywde

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4 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

 

Grab a copy of WU.... it's on sale for a buck somewhere half the time heh heh.

I didn't mean the compiled byte code ;)

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Wurm Unlimited is fairly trivially decompiled.

 

And, to reiterate: Making changes on the scale you're suggesting would require rewriting/refactoring extremely fundamental aspects of how Wurm works. Period. There's no getting around this. If you ask the devs "Could Wurm be better if reimplemented from the ground up?" of course they're going to say "yes", because 10+ years of hindsight is a wonderful thing. That doesn't mean it's going to happen, or is plausible, given the effort and resources required. I don't know why I keep having to repeat this.

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5 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

rewriting/refactoring extremely fundamental aspects

^ is something I do everyday at my RL job :) 
 

6 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

I don't know why I keep having to repeat this.

Don't know, maybe because I wouldn't like to give up on wurm. It's a great game tho :)

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29 minutes ago, Clywde said:

I didn't mean the compiled byte code ;)

 

Most of the server code is in there are decompiles quite cleanly.  The server's free once you got the client if i remember correctly.

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Yep; Wurm Unlimited includes both the server and the client, by necessity.

 

7 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Don't know, maybe because I wouldn't like to give up on wurm. It's a great game tho :)

 

Maybe "complete refactoring from the ground-up" and "give up on the game entirely" aren't the only options, though?

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If you had the servers split individuals based on some square or hex pattern, how would animals work into this mix? In wurm animals can theoretically make it from one end of the server to the other seamlessly. Would the plan be to make animals specific to only that server?

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9 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

Maybe "complete refactoring from the ground-up" and "give up on the game entirely" aren't the only options, though?

You got that right. I have my stuff and home in Xanadu, it's not so simple to move a whole deed to another server. And if enough players moves to "my" server, it might eventually have same kind of lag issues. Launching 2-3 new small sized servers wouldn't hurt anyone ;)

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14 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

If you had the servers split individuals based on some square or hex pattern, how would animals work into this mix? In wurm animals can theoretically make it from one end of the server to the other seamlessly. Would the plan be to make animals specific to only that server?

Data of animals are stored to the master db. Cell servers would only know/handle animal movement+actions in that server, but the animal data is loaded/stored to master server. Same thing with any "global" object. Animals/players "don't know" they are splitted to multiple servers, their locations are not restricted only to one cell server area.
Anyways, you could stop making further questions about this. As Ostentatio said, no one has time to implement this kind of approach...

Edited by Clywde

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Launching 2-3 more servers would hurt, it is not the answer. That has been tried and proven to not be the solution. In fact it can quite convincingly be argued that launching a few more servers greatly contributed to Wurm's demise.  Operating within the confines of the current state of code and dwindling playerbase, investing to achieve a lagless Xanadu does not have an interesting ROI. Basically, pray for Wurm 2 (Kickstarter? Come on devs!), live with the lag, or move. I am on Xanadu so I feel your pain but there is no viable solution else they would have done it already. All hypothesis of course, but seems logical and obvious to me.

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Well I can tell you in the games current state, you pretty much cannot bring animals across server, it is literally impossible that would require massive and major changes that will not be seen for years. Keep in mind we literally made crates to transport animals because of this. 

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3 hours ago, Clywde said:

You got that right. I have my stuff and home in Xanadu, it's not so simple to move a whole deed to another server. And if enough players moves to "my" server, it might eventually have same kind of lag issues. Launching 2-3 new small sized servers wouldn't hurt anyone ;)

 

There are already several smaller servers to choose from.

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