A kind request from a paying customer (DEVS/STAFF response required)

[Alkhadias 548]

You will be missed, bye o7

[Miner 41]

[Ostentatio 1,970]

You could move to a different server. There are several to choose from.

[Mclavin 3,704]

Just move server if you are having issues.

Really tho the Xan server should actually come with an Alpha-type warning before selecting as a starter place / dropping a deed with Budda's statement. 

Honesty is the best policy and people won't feel screwed over down the line.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Mclavin

[Retrograde 12,013]

3 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Ok, so it seems Xan is running on a single server. Shame on you, you're running a MMO. I bet you're using sqlite as database ;)) I can't stay here, thx to everyone for making my wurm journey special ?

I think you have misunderstood a few factors there, MMO's being run on multiple servers doesn't mean that a single instance is being shared by multiple servers, usually it's instances tied to a single server, which is what Xanadu is. 

 

Also, it's not sqlite. 

[FranktheTank 1,901]

5 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Ok, so it seems Xan is running on a single server. Shame on you, you're running a MMO. I bet you're using sqlite as database ;)) I can't stay here, thx to everyone for making my wurm journey special ?

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

3 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Ok, so it seems Xan is running on a single server. Shame on you, you're running a MMO. I bet you're using sqlite as database ;)) I can't stay here, thx to everyone for making my wurm journey special ?

It uses mysql.  You're extremely judgemental of the backbone of a game thats like 14 years old lol, do you go on the everquest forums and complain there too?

[JakeRivers 2,921]

LOL

 

Just move to a better server.

 

Everyone knows xanalag sucks.

[Alkhadias 548]

"But it's mmo" we need to work harder on quantum computing, unless Wurm won't handle it's own mass database. As a physicists I promise to do my best to keep Xanadu safe. For you, fellow judge. Let's remake LHCs plans and schedule on 2018/ 2019.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Alkhadias

[Mordraug 2,542]

Re: Xanadu.... yeh yeh yeh I ain't staff but did toy a lot with the WU server setups.

 

First off, between a 4k map and an 8k map, we're talking going from 16mil tiles to 64mil tiles.

 

I ran WU, 4k map on a normal drive for a while no sweat (solo map, this is without adding thousands upon thousands of items and structures into it).  Tried an 8k map started seeing all the same Xanadu symptoms.

 

Switched to SSD, tried again.  The Xanadu-sized map ran way better but the symptoms were still there, and my 8-core ain't exactly a potato.

 

tl;dr, Java itself seems to struggle a bit with a server that size.  Can't do much about THAT.  The game's engine itself maybe could at some point but that's gonna take quite a bit of coding.  Long story short, if Xanadu's lag issues ever get fixed, smaller servers are gonna get one heckuva boost in performance as a result.  I believe a big part of it would be redoing and rebuilding the entire database to somehow getting the same processes done with way less queries.... sounds sooo easy but I really doubt it is.

 

I'd like to hear from someone who's run a Xan-sized server on some overkilling rig, see if there's some minimum cap in computing power that needs to be passed, but I got the feeling that throwing a supercomputer at it wouldn't solve much.

[Wonka 438]

For larger servers, IO limitations are probably more relevant than pure CPU.  I'd love to see what it's like running off a RAMdrive, but I doubt anyone has that much memory.

[Niki 2,278]

To be honest at this point, it's highly unacceptable, but I really don't care to keep pointing out the obvious. How many threads must it take, you want to FINALLY do restarts on a weekly basis? Wow.

 

There have been plenty of suggestions and feedback in the past to alleviate the server lag. Look for a permanent solution, fix embarking while your at it. So many people quit because of these issues. Cutting the server into 4 using zone borders could even work.

 

 

Let me also mention, for new players they should get a WARNING when selecting Xanadu as their home like right out of the tutorial.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Niki

[ChampagneDragon 971]

It's really not that difficult: the more people and items on any server, the more lag. Xan= big, more populated, and more items. More lag. This is why so many vets avoid Xan whenever possible.

 

Smaller server, less people, and fewer items, no lag. I'm on Indy, not even in a remote area, and I have no lag. Go to a rift on Indy during peak times, when population in a close area jumps and you'll see some lag, but typically manageable. 

 

Anyone with any bit of gaming experience knows this.

 

*edit* 

 

And as for your demand:

 

I work in IT (security side). I see customers like you. I tell them the same thing I'm going to tell you: buck up, it's I.T. You can demand all you want, but some things are not that easy to fix. You have to weigh the benefits vs. the problems. If you can't deal with the problems, then there's always other options. In this case.. sayonara..

Edited June 29, 2018 by ChampagneDragon
more info

[Clywde 3]

31 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

I'd like to hear from someone who's run a Xan-sized server on some overkilling rig, see if there's some minimum cap in computing power that needs to be passed, but I got the feeling that throwing a supercomputer at it wouldn't solve much.

A single computer for a whole server won't be enough. How about if there is a server for every coordinate cell. Then the xanadu would be served with 32x32 servers. The system would still need one master database for all item/creature IDs and their data but serving players and map (modifications/creatures) data would be synced only with the cell-server the player is on. This is just an example how things could be solved. Scalability is the magic word. I'm sure devs know what it means  

Edited June 29, 2018 by Clywde

[Clywde 3]

40 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I think you have misunderstood a few factors there, MMO's being run on multiple servers doesn't mean that a single instance is being shared by multiple servers, usually it's instances tied to a single server, which is what Xanadu is. 

 

Also, it's not sqlite. 

Thanks. I didn't find any clues about scalable server architecture in your post. That's why I made my assumption. Anyways Xan is laggy and I think you have something wrong with the architecture. I don't want to underestimate your skills, but this is how it seems at my side ? Running MMO game is not simple..

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

10 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Then the xanadu would be served with 32x32 servers. 

Ah yes, the classic fix of having over 1000 servers, all communicating with each other. Perhaps you could package the server into a crypto-miner and out-source it lol

 

7 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Anyways Xan is laggy and I think you have something wrong with the architecture

Its not an issue with hardware, its an issue with the map being 1024 square km with ai and terraforming.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Take xanalag and cut it into 4-5 chunks, say a asteroid hit the middle of the sucker and just make new mini xana servers, but there are a lot of people who live on xanalag because they must love the lag or are sadists.

[Niki 2,278]

1 minute ago, JakeRivers said:

Take xanalag and cut it into 4-5 chunks, say a asteroid hit the middle of the sucker and just make new mini xana servers, but there are a lot of people who live on xanalag because they must love the lag or are sadists.

Literally what I'd do to fix it to be honest.

[Clywde 3]

7 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Ah yes, the classic fix of having over 1000 servers, all communicating with each other. Perhaps you could package the server into a crypto-miner and out-source it lol

 

Its not an issue with hardware, its an issue with the map being 1024 square km with ai and terraforming.

Why would all the servers need to communicate with each others, only adjacent ones needs to do that  And it was just an example, you could divide xanadu to 4x4 blocks if you want.

And if it's a problem with terraforming, would the separate (cell-)servers for map data and modifications help the issue?

Edited June 29, 2018 by Clywde

[nicedreams 1,035]

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

As for hardware, the devs assure me we have at least 5 rams. 

 

Duh there's your issue.  You need 5 speed horses or bison for a proper upgrade.

[Milkdrop 278]

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

As for hardware, the devs assure me we have at least 5 rams. 

 

What do you mean? African or European rams?

 

Fun aside, been said - as mentioned before as well - that the devs are working on it and its a work in progress that won't be solved in a week or month... apparently not even in a year. ^^`

 

I have been enduring the lag for years, sometimes its ok, sometimes not so much.

However, I do trust the devs that they know their trade and will handle it sooner or later... I have been pondering to move server, but I like my spot of land and the work I put into it so meh.

The only thing currently that would be rather bleh is going to hunt, but I guess I will just hop servers for that sometime soon - specially now that we got creature cages its vastly more viable to just hop to a smaller server with some cages loaded (if you are living on the coast like I do anyhow).

 

For the greater good of the game I do strongly hope that a solution is found rather sooner than later, specially as it seems that most people do start on Xanadu due it's charming size and most untouched areas.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Milkdrop
Adding something more than just a random edited quote from a funny movie. :p

[Ostentatio 1,970]

32 minutes ago, Clywde said:

Why would all the servers need to communicate with each others, only adjacent ones needs to do that  And it was just an example, you could divide xanadu to 4x4 blocks if you want.

And if it's a problem with terraforming, would the separate (cell-)servers for map data and modifications help the issue?

 

To put it bluntly, this simply isn't how Wurm Online works. It was not built with the assumption that a map could exist across multiple servers, and doing so would essentially require building the game's server code up from scratch.

 

And the servers would indeed need to communicate with each other, pretty much constantly. Many events (e.g. Rifts, unique spawns) are server-wide, as are the highway system, deed membership, alliances, which animals are related to which other animals, and any number of other things. Note that I use "server" here as a synonym for "island" or "map" because it essentially is.

[Jaz 2,665]

Who cares about a few seconds of lag when anything you want to achieve takes months anyway? This is why we love Wurm.

Use the servers perks to your advantage: have a huge storage (or architectural madness) deed on Xanadu for the lower monthly upkeep, grind there for the lower SB consumption.

Go for hunting and other activity type funs to smaller servers.

All you need is a boat...

Edited June 29, 2018 by Jaz

[Clywde 3]

1 hour ago, Ostentatio said:

 

To put it bluntly, this simply isn't how Wurm Online works. It was not built with the assumption that a map could exist across multiple servers, and doing so would essentially require building the game's server code up from scratch.

 

And the servers would indeed need to communicate with each other, pretty much constantly. Many events (e.g. Rifts, unique spawns) are server-wide, as are the highway system, deed membership, alliances, which animals are related to which other animals, and any number of other things. Note that I use "server" here as a synonym for "island" or "map" because it essentially is.

I think you missed my first description of the example. Local "cell" servers doesn't have event or any global data stored, only the map (+all local data, if any). Cell servers would handle player connections and talk to adjacent cells to provide continuous map to players. Of course they would need to communicate with the master server. Master server would have to have an in memory cache, because db queries are rather slow, even with quick SSD disks. Anyways I believe there is a solution without rewriting the code from scratch. 

(This kind of solution would split network resource usage (connection read/write/encrypt/decrypt/eg) by player location and map queries/modifications wouldn't load the master server...)

Edited June 29, 2018 by Clywde

[Ostentatio 1,970]

7 minutes ago, Clywde said:

I think you missed my first description of the example. Local "cell" servers doesn't have event or any global data stored, only the map (+all local data, if any). Cell servers would handle player connections and talk to adjacent cells to provide continuous map to players. Of course they would need to communicate with the master server. Master server would have to have an in memory cache, because db queries are rather slow, even with quick SSD disks. Anyways I believe there is a solution without rewriting the code from scratch. 

(This kind of solution would split network resource usage (connection read/write/encrypt/decrypt/eg) by player location and map modifications wouldn't load the master server...)

 

This would require completely changing Wurm's network architecture and how the server code functions. This would be an incredibly arduous undertaking.

 

You're suggesting changing what types of servers Wurm has, how they communicate with each other, and all underlying code relying on that, while also saying that things wouldn't have to be rewritten "from scratch"; they basically would, at least enough to make this a non-starter.