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Hoseph

PMK Upkeep Change: Bulk Items Instead of Coins

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It is my understanding that Wurm's economy is struggling due to excess supply of items and a lack of buyers. I believe that PMKs can provide a much-needed backbone to Wurm's economy in several important ways by providing many item sinks at once, while also giving them greater flexibility when it comes to maintaining themselves.

 

To that end, I propose that a PMK should have to pay a monthly demand of items in lieu of coins.

 

These items may include bulk goods such as:

  • lumber
  • stone
  • metal
  • crops
  • squares of cloth
  • meats
  • fish
  • Herbs/Medicine
  • Arrows

 

And individual items up to a certain quality such as:

  • Clothes
  • Tools
  • Weapons
  • Armor
  • Food

 

To encourage variety a PMK would have to use different items or face diminishing returns

An example of how this might be arranged: a PMK on Chaos has an upkeep of 20k bulk items and 200 finished goods per month. It pays off that upkeep by producing 10k stone bricks, 100 Saws, and buying the rest from Freedom. After the month is over, the PMK's upkeep is adjusted, and 20k bulk items and 200 finished goods are still needed, but since they use ONLY stone bricks and ONLY saws, submitting bricks and saws would now require 50% more than last time. Other items are unaffected, and over time a kingdom may switch to other items based on market value, availability, and obtainability. Creating a (hopefully) dynamic economy of supply and demand.

 

The amount and variety of items needed should be sufficient enough to prove difficult but not impossible for a kingdom to provide on its own. This creates a demand for goods, and since they can at least partially sustain themselves, each kingdom can avoid being at the mercy of the economy or the financial might of its rivals. There also remains a cost associated with running a PMK.

 

Pros:

  • Creates item sinks
  • Flow of economy
  • Wider variety of professions become useful
  • People can earn money by selling things to Kingdoms
  • Kingdoms can still sell PMK items for money to buy goods
  • PMK members can easily and directly provide for their kingdom's needs
  • Encourages larger kingdoms when supplemented by its own members
  • Physical transportation of goods creates logistics and player activity through escorting and interception of cargo

 

Cons:

  • Creation, growth, relapse, and collapse of kingdoms potentially affecting prices as demand changes
  • PMKs potentially become interested in reducing costs by paying less for products
  • Sellers potentially interested in lowering price to stay competitive
  • Proper "value" of items needs clarification

 

Neutral points:

  • Refocuses PMK role in the economy from silver sinks to item sinks
  • Silver still leaves the game by going to the average player who spends it on premium and deed upkeep.
  • Training skills to produce goods competitively is still rewarding to currently-dedicated players and those who need a reason to train
  • Physical transportation of goods to PMK enables rival kingdom to disrupt and directly interfere with a kingdom's ability to pay the bills
  • Interference affects demand for something

 

That's all I can say for now. Please point out any flaws or possible issues you might see.

Edited by Hoseph
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PMK's don't have upkeep.  Deeds have upkeep.

 

-1

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I think this is a great idea. In fact, i just logged in to the forum to make a similar suggestion for deed upkeep (but mine would have been way less detailed and not as well presented as this one).

 

Maybe not replace completly the silver coins by items for upkeep, but having à little bit of both would certainly be very helpful to create a more dynamic economy in this game.

 

Currently, there is not enough incentive for players to continue making new items, appart from pure grinding which is boring as hell.

Creating artificial demand for items like this would help keep players busy and hooked to the game.

 

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It's only fair to point out, most PMK's are self sufficient when it comes to bulk, each has their own group of crafters, smiths, priests etc that they have to make their deeds, build giant defensive walls, safe tunnels, new gear etc. So if it switched to making x bulk for deed upkeep (as Wargasm said, its just individual deed) there's a high probability that the kingdoms will just make it all themselves. ( I know from experience, i'm one of those crafters for a pmk)

 

No +/- just my two copper

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on a roleplay base it makes sense that kingdom could pay for its upkeep with full coin ( buy the goods needed and the different coin cost of things, like peasants, guards pay and gears) or with coins and goods (guards and peasants get their pay and can use the tools and supplies for other kingdom tasks) so kingdoms could have the option to pay 'upkeep' full coin or with coin and goods.

 

as a crafter in the PVE lands, not gonna lie that the idea could be intresting to create demand. few questions tho.

 

- what happens if a kingdom fails to meet its required supply of arrows or tools? would guard tower produce less guards/ be easier to capture then? or some other negative effect or they would just disband?

hard to picture a kingdom going to ruins cause someone didnt supply a few bricks and saws.

or perhaps it would work on a bonus system, extra demand giving an extra boost, but if not active no negative point?

 

- how would goals be set?

not to brag but producing 1k bricks and 100 saws is quite easy at my lvl and i'm far from the best compard to some others out there. a 10 player kingdom wouldnt need any help for this.

might also create tensions towards recruiting if demand is based off total members, you'd want to make sure not to pay for innactive people.

 

-i assume the QL of items would matter: 100 ql 1 saw wouldnt work as well as 100 ql 90 saws in the example right? would items be counted as a gain towards kingdom needs like on the favor system where some items are worth more depending on item type and ql?

 

-deeds in pvp can be looted for their silver and goods lying around. would those supplies be lootable as a 'kingdom supply' item (and have it weight something)  you can use to refill your own kingdom, or open and play a gamble game of what is inside?

 

-regarding transport, wouldnt this give people who never entered chaos a priviledge on mailing items over? and thus making tools worth more points more easily sent over and used, for barely a bit more: 100 saw would be just 1s in mailing wouldnt it? but paying 1s for complete fast and secured transport not sound good?

 

 

you also mentioned this in the con list:

1 hour ago, Hoseph said:
  • Sellers potentially interested in lowering price to stay competitive
  • Proper "value" of items needs clarification

those 2 points are not really con points per say as currently the market is overflooded with skilled people who can produce supplies in high quantities and quality rather quickly...and thus the undercutting of prices and ressources to sell your wares is already happening too ( see the price of a ql 90 tool a few years back vs now)

one of the reason the economy is unsteady is the lack of demand. i dont think those are proper con point as this drain on supplies would help stabilise the demand and supply a little. the main point tho is 'what would be a correct price for those items' since its not tools people would be using to work but more to just pay the area upkeep.

but then again someone ordering 10 or 20 tools of the same type at once can already ask for a discount. personaly it doesnt feel so much like it would damage the already weakened tool market.

 

 

so overall, a few questions, couple small concerns, mostly worried about pvpers complaining about balance, extra work and other things... but the idea to add a drain to the already growing piles of items we produce and nobody seems to want wouldnt hurt for sure. perhaps a small similar idea to equip your guards in pve? or even pvp, but balance, complains, ect. like when a new guard spawn you can give them weapon/armor they will consume, and will boost them a bit.

so yes, a +1 on the idea, would likely need some digging and smoothing things out but its not a bad idea to give people other small goals, so long as they dont eat away at the entire time. maybe a bit like god missions perhaps

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No pmk wants deal with buying 20k bulk items per month. This meme post reminds me of "just tax the 1%" and it will fix the economy.

All you guna get is even less activity on chaos cause no one wants deal with that.

No one also escorts cargo thats just a new player idea people get from other games because sailing is slow and boring.

Also your argument of pmk items still being main way fund this is not true.

PMK merch is pretty much impossible to lose on freedom deeds versus bulk is being consumed to "fund" the pmk.

Most freedomers are not going keep buying the pmks flag/banners every month.

 

What happens if the pmk fails to fund the bulk items?

Do all the deeds under that pmk disband even tho they still have to pay silver upkeep like freedom deeds?

 

There isn't much flow of economy just a forced consumption on chaos players. There is no reason why freedom players should spend their silver earned back on chaos.

 

 

EDIT: better way fix economy is removing QOL mechanics.

Make buildings on deeds decay.

Bring back decay on items in bsbs/crates.

Prevent repairing on knarrs/large carts so you don't own the same boat for 4+ years.

Slash the animal life span.

Spike the decay rate on items not used within 2 weeks.

Spike usage decay on enchanted items

force drake/scale not be repairable since uniques always spawn every month now.

 

Reason these mechanics are not like that is cause people are lazy and don't want constantly maintain things.

If you want an economy where there is demand then you need remove a lot of good updates that made it easier be lazy on wurm.

Of course many will rage quit because most people value having a fun time in wurm vs making money in 

 

 

 

 

Edited by shankiest
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A grand way to kill Chaos. As mentioned above, PMK's do not currently have an upkeep cost, deeds do. And generally all PMK's on Chaos are self-sufficient and do not generally either Import nor Export from freedom in mass, therefor they do not currently affect the Freedom economy in any way.

This does not need to be changed. And if it were changed I have the utmost certainty that it would royally screw up the economy in Wurm even moreso than it already is, combined with the fact that I can almost guarantee you that (as with nearly anything that's ever been added to the game, ever) the team would initially #### it up horribly and something would go wrong. Creating either a Window of Opportunity for someone or causing detriment loss to those affected by the inevitable screwup.

 

Huge -1 to changing something that doesn't need to be changed.

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Good joke!

 

Code Club relies on the money in the upkeep they will never ever disable or change upkeep. If you don't have enough money, stop playing wurm and get a job.

Edited by Sklo:D

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Worst thing i heard this month. Congratulations. Even worse than Mal's sh1ttalk, you need an award for this.

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+1 to alternate upkeep methods. I wouldn't replace the silver upkeep (or add new upkeeps), but simply give the option to either pay deed upkeep outright via goods instead of silver, or defray a certain percent of the silver cost.

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Oh, and depending upon how you pay your deed upkeep, you could even add different temporary bonuses to the deed. A majority of blacksmithing items could give a blacksmithing bonus, etc.

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I'll try to address some of the comments so far. I appreciate the feedback. It really helps me hammer this out.

 

15 hours ago, Wargasm said:

PMK's don't have upkeep.  Deeds have upkeep.

I have no experience in maintaining or running a PMK, but maybe you can tell me if PMKs typically have multiple deeds running on Chaos. If that's the case, maybe the topic should be addressed to Chaos deed upkeep and not that of PMKs. I still think it would be a worthwhile idea but maybe you can convince me otherwise.

 

14 hours ago, Fares said:

I think this is a great idea. In fact, i just logged in to the forum to make a similar suggestion for deed upkeep (but mine would have been way less detailed and not as well presented as this one).

 

Maybe not replace completly the silver coins by items for upkeep, but having à little bit of both would certainly be very helpful to create a more dynamic economy in this game.

 

Currently, there is not enough incentive for players to continue making new items, appart from pure grinding which is boring as hell.

Creating artificial demand for items like this would help keep players busy and hooked to the game.

 

I think you're on to something if regular deeds would have some kind of item sink of their own. An optional supplement to their normal upkeep fees, but not entirely replacing it.

 

14 hours ago, punishlife said:

It's only fair to point out, most PMK's are self sufficient when it comes to bulk, each has their own group of crafters, smiths, priests etc that they have to make their deeds, build giant defensive walls, safe tunnels, new gear etc. So if it switched to making x bulk for deed upkeep (as Wargasm said, its just individual deed) there's a high probability that the kingdoms will just make it all themselves. ( I know from experience, i'm one of those crafters for a pmk)

 

No +/- just my two copper

Fair point, I suppose the amount of bulk needed for upkeep would have to depend on a few factors that would at least encourage a kingdom to outsource its goods, but at the same time without leaving them helpless to sustain themselves. At the very least, a larger variety of skills would have a purpose. And even a simple cloth tailor could find a niche. That's part the idea anyway. The overall goal of course is to leave the PMKs spending the same equivalent amount of silver on goods instead of simply going into upkeep. But this would indeed have a dramatic effect on the economy if not VERY carefully done. Which is also a fair point to be made against it when there are likely to be glaring errors in such a large implementation like this.

 

Ah well, that's why this is on the suggestions forum.

14 hours ago, Ekib said:

on a roleplay base it makes sense that kingdom could pay for its upkeep with full coin ( buy the goods needed and the different coin cost of things, like peasants, guards pay and gears) or with coins and goods (guards and peasants get their pay and can use the tools and supplies for other kingdom tasks) so kingdoms could have the option to pay 'upkeep' full coin or with coin and goods.

 

as a crafter in the PVE lands, not gonna lie that the idea could be intresting to create demand. few questions tho.

 

- what happens if a kingdom fails to meet its required supply of arrows or tools? would guard tower produce less guards/ be easier to capture then? or some other negative effect or they would just disband?

hard to picture a kingdom going to ruins cause someone didnt supply a few bricks and saws.

or perhaps it would work on a bonus system, extra demand giving an extra boost, but if not active no negative point?

- how would goals be set?

not to brag but producing 1k bricks and 100 saws is quite easy at my lvl and i'm far from the best compard to some others out there. a 10 player kingdom wouldnt need any help for this.

might also create tensions towards recruiting if demand is based off total members, you'd want to make sure not to pay for innactive people.

The amount and type of items is definitely up in the air at the moment. The most fair way I can currently think of is to follow the same rules as regular deed upkeep costs. The larger the deeds, the more items you need. And (maybe) the more members you're encouraged to recruit to help meet that need. I know I've done my fair share of grinding out bricks and mortar for the cause, and would love other ways to contribute somehow.

 

As for failing to meet the demand, I suppose it would have to be part of an optional bonus. Like you said, possibly affecting things like guards and towers or preventing building decay outside a certain distance from the deeds, or even providing a bonus to offensive seige weapons. But not necessary or crippling to do without of course.

 

Quote

-i assume the QL of items would matter: 100 ql 1 saw wouldnt work as well as 100 ql 90 saws in the example right? would items be counted as a gain towards kingdom needs like on the favor system where some items are worth more depending on item type and ql?

For Quality, I think it should only matter for finished goods like tools and weapons and armor, not necessarily bulk goods. There could be a certain threshold (say 50QL) that changes under certain factors, and then higher quality of course being more effective at contributing towards the demand. Rewarding high level crafters but also giving lower levels something to work on too.

 

Quote

-deeds in pvp can be looted for their silver and goods lying around. would those supplies be lootable as a 'kingdom supply' item (and have it weight something)  you can use to refill your own kingdom, or open and play a gamble game of what is inside?

Interesting question, I don't know how they could handle the looting of deed tokens, maybe as a generic package item that must be hauled back to to your deed to redeem. But I can see the issue being that PMKs would be disincentivized to produce high QL items for the sake of depriving another kingdom of decent loot. So maybe that part would be in coins only to keep things simple.

 

Quote

-regarding transport, wouldnt this give people who never entered chaos a priviledge on mailing items over? and thus making tools worth more points more easily sent over and used, for barely a bit more: 100 saw would be just 1s in mailing wouldnt it? but paying 1s for complete fast and secured transport not sound good?

Woops, I totally forgot that weird little restriction on mailing things to Chaos. Not sure how to address it. Maybe you or someone else has any ideas?

 

Quote

 

you also mentioned this in the con list:

those 2 points are not really con points per say as currently the market is overflooded with skilled people who can produce supplies in high quantities and quality rather quickly...and thus the undercutting of prices and ressources to sell your wares is already happening too ( see the price of a ql 90 tool a few years back vs now)

one of the reason the economy is unsteady is the lack of demand. i dont think those are proper con point as this drain on supplies would help stabilise the demand and supply a little. the main point tho is 'what would be a correct price for those items' since its not tools people would be using to work but more to just pay the area upkeep.

but then again someone ordering 10 or 20 tools of the same type at once can already ask for a discount. personaly it doesnt feel so much like it would damage the already weakened tool market.

 

 

so overall, a few questions, couple small concerns, mostly worried about pvpers complaining about balance, extra work and other things... but the idea to add a drain to the already growing piles of items we produce and nobody seems to want wouldnt hurt for sure. perhaps a small similar idea to equip your guards in pve? or even pvp, but balance, complains, ect. like when a new guard spawn you can give them weapon/armor they will consume, and will boost them a bit.

so yes, a +1 on the idea, would likely need some digging and smoothing things out but its not a bad idea to give people other small goals, so long as they dont eat away at the entire time. maybe a bit like god missions perhaps

I felt they were cons because the new demand by PMKs would not necessarily align with the average seller's interests. Because they could produce their own goods, other people would have to sell low enough for the kingdom to consider it worth while. That's my take on it at least. But you're right, it's still a fair uptick in demand overall.

 

As for the guards, I think there's potential to make them a lot more interesting by giving them different weapons and equipment.

 

13 hours ago, whereami said:

A grand way to kill Chaos. As mentioned above, PMK's do not currently have an upkeep cost, deeds do. And generally all PMK's on Chaos are self-sufficient and do not generally either Import nor Export from freedom in mass, therefor they do not currently affect the Freedom economy in any way.

Okay, so outright requiring items for upkeep won't work. But we seem to be gravitating towards the idea of being able to dump items into a PMK to get appropriate bonuses. Not necessary, but nice to have. PMKs would still be self-sufficient, and they would have the option to buy stuff off Freedom and potentially raise demand for surplus goods. Maybe not on a large scale, but hopefully noticeable enough. Kinda like those Valrei items you can find and sacrifice on a deed for little bonuses. Although I don't recall if people buy those a lot. Personally I think regular deeds could have a certain bonus or specialization depending on what kinds of items they put in, so those of a profession can benefit from grinding low QL items or buying from others.

 

1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Oh, and depending upon how you pay your deed upkeep, you could even add different temporary bonuses to the deed. A majority of blacksmithing items could give a blacksmithing bonus, etc.

That sounds more interesting than replacing silver as upkeep. It reminds me of how they do Realms in Haven and Hearth, with various benefits. I don't think having blacksmithing benefits from sacrificing blacksmtihing items would seem balanced though. At least, it should be more rewarding to use items from different professions. It might be interesting to create an interdependency between deeds specializing in different things. Maybe industrialized deeds would rely on agricultural goods, requiring crops to increase their blacksmithing and mining benefits on deed. And agricultural deeds require a monthly supply of tools and metal crafts for their farming benefits. Said benefits being things like faster action timers or imp/creation success rate. Or something more interesting like exclusive items that can only be made by specialized deeds.

 

Of course, people love to tweak and customize, so perhaps the mayor would be able to set what kinds of perks they want, and generate the demanded items for the month based on that.

 

Thanks guys, I look forward to more responses.

Edited by Hoseph
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-1

 

PMK's have 1 trader to start with to offset monthly upkeep and may buy more traders, in addition the trader income can be supplemented by taking over the various forts.

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46 minutes ago, Hoseph said:

I'll try to address some of the comments so far. I appreciate the feedback. It really helps me hammer this out.

 

I have no experience in maintaining or running a PMK, but maybe you can tell me if PMKs typically have multiple deeds running on Chaos. If that's the case, maybe the topic should be addressed to Chaos deed upkeep and not that of PMKs. I still think it would be a worthwhile idea but maybe you can convince me otherwise.

 

 

You should first join a PMK and experience it before suggesting to change something you no nothing about.

Edited by nicedreams
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-1 not all players like making bulk or have that much game time to make bulk items. Mainly me

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It is naive to think that Code Club AB would give up the cash cow that is pvp deeds.

Cash is King.

The pvp'ers sure also wanna continue to drain other deeds to gain coins for their own upkeeps.

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While being able to offset at least part of deed upkeep via bulk je instead of silvers might not be bad(on freedom or chaos) original thought of forcing pmks to hastle with the bulk in necisity sounds je pretty bad but numbers must be calculated very carefuly as i cant clearly predict what impact that would have. Also pmk gear is not vialable je source of income these days, if they introduce je pmk shields and sails it might help but for short period of time. I like the idea of having different je bonuses to deed for by providing bulk items, exclecially different ones, like providing 100 50,70,90ql rakes every month could provode farming je bonus to citizens of that deed, bonus na power depending on ql of rakes, providing weapons in bonus in fighting, even providing barells of alcohol to token can give some je kind of overall efficientcy bonus.Bricks, planks and things je like that i would put as alternative for upkeep cost, charcoal, tar, and peat for bonus that furnaces on deed burn longer, having coal to give highest bonus. There is potential in that i belive if its carefuly worked out being some small bonus instead of necessity.

Edited by kochinac
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56 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

i don't get it

he made a suggestion about the upkeep on Chaos , not knowing anything about PMKs and people letting him know how bad of an idea it is.

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Bigger joke is people suggesting perks for deeds that already exist. Reason not many people know about on deed bonus is cause its a pain maintain the bonuses cause its same idea of consuming items to maintain something.

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Suggestion Court is now in session, presiding is the honorable Judge Cndo.

 

I would like to note I did not read the other posts yet, sorry if some of this was covered.

 

Firstly I would like to say that I appreciate the time and effort you actually put into this suggestion, however I want to point out that you seem to lack knowledge of what I refer to as "high level game mechanics". Freedom often plays at a level of low-mid tier game mechanics, occasionally touching the high level for projects. PvP requires a player to constantly be aware, crafting, fighting, and expanding game knowledge to develop their kingdom into the best. When you mentioned upkeep for PMK's it is hard to tell if you actually want a new system entirely or think you are changing the old system, in which case there is none. PMK's are just a deed or series of deeds, essentially this would be an alternative upkeep system to the way deeds currently work or an additional piece to the current kingdom.

Kingdoms cost 1 gold, or 100 euros and usually require a decent sized group (unless you have cash like gratsalot) to found the kingdom. Not as simple as just putting down a settlement stake. Now to dive into the actual suggestion.

 

In your introduction you state you feel as though PMK's should be charged with bolstering the economy of Freedom. I would like to state that Chaos is highly involved with the freedom economy already, far more than you know. I, like many on the forums, often check the trade section to see what is for sale and what is being bought, and almost every time you can find several pvper's in these threads buying more than they sell. Chaos provides various luxury goods for the economy, hota statues, banners, war loot, moon metal, and more. While often purchasing materials, tools, gear, unique armor and products, and the occasional deed for sale for what is essentially their retirement. As stated above they pay 1 gold for the kingdom, and upkeep on all the deeds, a successful kingdom can often take advantage of various opportunities to make enough coinage to pay for their upkeeps. Many PMK's have multiple deeds, and therefore multiple upkeeps. To imply that Chaos should be continuing to pay for any additional goods is either a lack of knowledge of the input and output of these groups, or just disdain for the pvp community. Even if you changed it to only be those items listed as upkeep, there was still an initial investment placed.

 

The resources you mention mainly the bulk goods would be yet another barrier that would serve as another grievance. Between the acquisition of the materials, transportation, self harvesting, or even paying for them you are forgetting a resource that everyone has and needs and that is time.  In a game where to light a forge I have to, go outside, chop a tree, chop up the tree, get a log, go back in my house, chop the log into kindling, use the flint and steel on a forge, then add the log to burn, wait for the forge to heat up therefore heating up the metal just to make nails. Now you are telling me I have to spend my time crafting, obtaining bulk items, obtaining certain quality finished items, and somehow find time to actually kill my enemy or plan a raid? That is way too much on the shoulders of the player, the game would feel less like a game and more like work. This is creating so much additional stress for someone, why even play on a pvp server? Why have a pmk?

 

There are some pmk's out there that are struggling pretty bad to just keep playing the game, I could not imagine a world in which they also have to transport thousands of bulk goods suddenly, get hit by a larger kingdom, and lose everything they just spent significant silver on. Sorry but if I incurred a huge money loss on bulk goods I am not even going to use, but to sacrifice to the ether I would probably jump off a bridge to lose it all. What you are essentially asking for is chaos to become not only your customer exclusively but also for them to quite literally work for you. "Hey chaos, you have to buy these bulk mat and gear. Only you guys have to do this though because we want some money." It is practically a form of indentured servant, pay us to play there.

 

PvP is in a delicate state, a lack of updates combined with animosity towards developers for what many call a lack of vision are problems every pmk has. I think you seriously underestimate the amount of abuse people are willing to take to continue to bolster freedom, a server set that many in the pvp community grow to dislike more by the day.

 

The problems with the economy should not be the problem of Chaos to solve, who more often than not buy the most from the community. It should be solved on the server that cares the most about it, and keeps making threads about it. Stop being the jack of all trades in your villages and start buying your neighbors buckets.

 

 

To shankiest, I am starting to think deed decay does need to come back pretty hard. 

Edited by FranktheTank
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12 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

 

The problems with the economy should not be the problem of Chaos to solve, who more often than not buy the most from the community. It should be solved on the server that cares the most about it, and keeps making threads about it. Stop being the jack of all trades in your villages and start buying your neighbors buckets.

 

Frankly, I think this is a fair statement. And I am no pvp-er.

 

It's amazing how things unfold. Back when I was against the proposals to keep bulk forever in crates on deeds and remove decay, it felt like I was going to get lynched. Now a lot of imagination goes into suggesting sinks for the load of bulk that many, including myself, hoard on their deeds. Well.

 

We seem to need these sinks, although bulk is probably the lesser part of the "economy issue". Anyway, I think this suggestion is clearer and less controversial: 

 

Now if you will excuse me, I'll have to get back to our deed and get drunk from our reserve of wine... More wine that I can ever drink, but one can try!

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you're offering suggestions no on has asked for and does/will not affect you

why do so many people throw stuff out like this, your idea is dogpiss 

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Let's turn this on its head.

 

PVP has enough to deal with - there is a war going on you know ;)

 

How about PVE doing more for the PVP factions? 

 

I would like to see more initiatives on PVE that benefit and support the PVP players.

 

After all, that's all we do on Freedom isn't it? we grind, we collect stuff, we hoard.  But what are we personally doing for the war effort?  

 

Don't want to get involved? I think most of us on Freedom are happy cocooned in our safety bubble. 

 

We may have been offered the chance to join a faction (sometimes many offers) - but we don't, why?  We think we might die, for one thing, but more importantly we might lose our stuff, our precious stuff....

 

Shock - you don't have to go to Chaos to join a faction - you can work from Freedom (in complete safety) and offer donations of materials to your chosen faction - and really make a difference.   A lot of people don't know this, many of us believe we have to actually go to Chaos and risk life and limb.

 

What your suggestion has highlighted, and what I would really like to see, is some way of converting relatively useless items (say... thousands of ivy seedlings, wood scraps, shards) to something more useful to PVE and/or PVP in a game mechanic. 

 

A little like saccing junk adds to your deed faith bonus... The idea of an item sink is not wrong, it is just the way it was presented as a burden on PMKs which was unpalatable.

 

Instead of a monthly bulk material demand to PMK's - how about some benefit derived from bulk material donations.  It's a different twist on the system, it's not compulsory, it's just voluntary, and offers benefits rather than extra pressure.

 

To work it would have to be of mutual benefit to the donor as well as the chosen PMK.

 

Maybe there is something we can all do for the war effort in Chaos - while we hide safe in our towers, far from the horrors of the front line.

 

 

Edited by Muse
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On 6/27/2018 at 2:09 PM, Anarres said:

Back when I was against the proposals to keep bulk forever in crates on deeds and remove decay, it felt like I was going to get lynched. Now a lot of imagination goes into suggesting sinks for the load of bulk that many, including myself, hoard on their deeds. Well. 

 

Decay is the worst possible, least fun "item sink", because it effectively wastes a player's time and effort, and they'll know it. That's bad design.

 

Much better is giving players something positive to spend hoarded resources on.

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