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Odynn

Achievements difficulty.

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Oh my god, why another post to whine about personal goals?!

 

Well, lets get to the points.

  1. personal goals are not personally chosen
  2. some are way harder than the others
  3. spawns on the servers make them barely possible
  4. the difficulty or amount of actions required has nothing to do with the achievement 'rarity'.

 

Not much to do about the first point, people have complained about it and suggested ways to change it before.

 

The 3 others points are completely different though. Spawns on the servers are broken, since a long while, why is it easier to slay a troll king, kyklops, goblin leader than kill a sea serpent or 100 lava fiends or 100 unicorns? When Enki wurmanniversary reward is to teleport you next to a unicorn because they are so damn rare these days... it kinda means something, right? Fixing the spawns would be nice, if not, removing said achievements from the goals would be better.

 

The "Oh my! The joke!" ... how can some gold achievements compete with each others when the difficulty gap is insane between them. how planting 500 flowers is the same as mining a 99QL gems or doing 100 000 actions... Or why catching 1000 fish is the same 'difficulty' as catching a 190kg fish?

 

It might be wise to re-evaluate the difficulty of all those goals and requalify them in diamond if they are too hard, lower the requirement or completely remove them.

 

The matter is not being able to farm tomes (which can already be done by rolling countless alts - no thanks) but finishing what have been started and changed so many times it became impossible on so many accounts.

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Tbf i liked the idea where you have to finish this many silver, gold and diamond achivements, which means you can choose which you do. Ofc seeing that killing 3-4 uniques would be enough for most, maybe make so you need more diamonds, like 5 or 7 and then 20 gold and 40 silver or so. In that way people can choose which they do and it wont be a walk in the beach cause spamming some of the personal goals would be supereasy (99 ql imp - heh, if you know what i mean @Odynn:D , 10k trash bin, drake slayer and so forward.) . Will still take time, but most people get them thru playing anyway,.

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tbh, drake slayer is only gold... which is kinda fun compared to others gold achievements, changing their level... and allowing people to do X achievements of each type would be nice... not sure if a complete rework would be worth if for the devs, seeing they are planning to scrap the whole thing down some time soon(TM).

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tbf this also fixes the priest problem, which we have a thread for. 

Edited by Wulfgarr

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Yeah, my "repair 6250 fences/walls", "plant 5000 trees" and "make 5000 liters of wine" doesn't encourage me too much. :( 

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+1 Spawns need to be fixed, even if then wasn't relevant for achievements.

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Yes, i've seen the thread and the trouble is real, while it's possible to jump on epic and accomplish a few goals there, I totally understand that epic priests are unable to do the same on freedom... and the whole meh, depriest, that's easy to grind is as false as the assumption of people wanting easy tomes.

 

We faced achievements that were PvP only or Epic only for years, now that it's fixed... we are still limited by the difficulty or impossibility of some.

 

I personally managed to finish the goals on my priest on epic... while my main Odynn is stuck on freedom trying to get a 190kg fish gold achievement (0.08% odds at 95 fishing with a 95+QL fine fishing rod on a shark alone... chances to get a special fish being somewhere between 10 to 60% depending on your rod and extra randomness) and ticking away 5 path of vynora ones (gold - catch 1000 fish).

 

Being done with the incredibly stupid randomness for those achievements would be a nice thing... afterall, making a fantastic item was removed for that reason.

Edit 1 -- 6250 fences is hard but doable, it require you to do 6250 actions... planting 5000 trees is about the same difficulty but gold and not diamond.... and the 5K wine is about as stupid as it can be with the 9.4K or so grapes requirement, the 2500+ kg of sap, turning all the grapes into juice, mixing them and getting everything into barrels... over 30k actions easilly.

Edited by Odynn
moar stuff
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i would like to have achievable personal goals on my main character.  it seems nothing is going to come easy to Delightfuldee.  recipes were broken. and now the personal goals may as well be too  . kill 100 "wild" unicorns , plant 5000 k of trees,  put 10 K items in trash bin. when others only need to put 100 in... should not the amount be the same for every player?

 

personal goals are broken as far as im concerned :(

 

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5 minutes ago, Tor said:

+1 Spawns need to be fixed, even if then wasn't relevant for achievements.

I agree with this always. 

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7 minutes ago, Kadmint said:

Yeah, my "repair 6250 fences/walls", "plant 5000 trees" and "make 5000 liters of wine" doesn't encourage me too much. :( 

i used a friend, to help me with similar achievement for a tome charge. 

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Yeah, these issues (as well as a few others) are pretty much the reason our plan is to scrap this system entirely and replace it one build from the ground up.

 

The current personal goals system won't be receiving any changes until the entire rework due to the issues it has, but the new system will take some of these things into account. 

 

 

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I'd also like to point out the fact to add insult to the injury, some achievements descriptions are not helping or we completely lack a way to track them. Lord of war was recently changed to show that you need to make 100 sword, mauls, axe and shields... 100 of each... knowing they all have an hidden achievement keeping track of those amounts.

 

Quote

template = createAchievement(199, "Invisible:Mauls", true, 1, (byte)3, "", generatedTemplates);
template.setAchievementsTriggered(new int[] { 202 });
template = createAchievement(200, "Invisible:Axes", true, 1, (byte)3, "", generatedTemplates);
template.setAchievementsTriggered(new int[] { 202 });
template = createAchievement(201, "Invisible:Shields", true, 1, (byte)3, "", generatedTemplates);
template.setAchievementsTriggered(new int[] { 202 });
template = createAchievement(202, "Lord of War", false, 100, (byte)3, "You made an art out of providing instruments of war for a large number of people.", generatedTemplates, false, true, "Smith a sword, a maul, an axe and a shield");
template.setRequiredAchievements(new int[] { 198, 199, 200, 201 });

 

Some could really use to be visible :

 

Quote

template = createAchievement(106, "Invisible:ActionsPerformed", true, 1, (byte)3, "", generatedTemplates);
template.setAchievementsTriggered(new int[] { 107 });
template = createAchievement(107, "Ambitious", false, 100000, (byte)4, "You're not fooling around. You're doing things!", generatedTemplates, true, false, "Perform 100000 actions");

 

I mean, 100 000 actions, would it hurt to actually know the amount we made.

 

Others are already inbetween, like the woodcutting one:

 

Quote

template = createAchievement(129, "Invisible:CutTree", true, 1, (byte)3, "", generatedTemplates);

template.setAchievementsTriggered(new int[] { 130 });

template = createAchievement(130, "Deforestation", false, 1000, (byte)3, "There's something with you and trees", generatedTemplates, true, false, "Cut down 1000 trees");

template.setAchievementsTriggered(new int[] { 131 });

template = createAchievement(131, "Paul Bunyan", false, 5, (byte)3, "You can measure yourself with the greatest of lumberjacks", generatedTemplates);

 

You have no ideas of how many trees you cut till you get the first deforestation achievement.

 

The achievements are all there in AchievementGenerator.java the only thing needed is to turn the invisible flag off (that little true you see on the invisible ones) and maybe add some flavor text.

 

Post retrograde answer edit.

12 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

The current personal goals system won't be receiving any changes until the entire rework due to the issues it has from the ground up, but the new system will take some of these things into account. 

 

This I'm afraid is exactly what we wouldn't like to see happen... Telling your player base to sit tight enjoy things and see a title, tome and the ability to finish what we started go away without the ability to actually do them is like telling to just bugger off.

 

The system is broken, thank you for noticing it, the system will be reworked and be different, thank you for doing this... Could you please make it so we have an actual chance of doing it... well that would actually be great. Achievements have been fixed 4 times so far in the last 2 weeks if i'm not wrong... one last thing to make them half decent for everyone is all we ask.

Edited by Odynn
goddamn formating.
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Yeah difficulty gap beetween goals is extremly ridiculous, some more subgroubs in random generating them to be more balanced and equaly hard for everyone could even discourage people from spamming alts for it, but that ship has sailed with current system and fix. And omg i had no idea on 190kg fish difficulty, as someone who had only make fantastic goal unfinished for years i feel you, that one should have been replaced as well based on numbers you showed ? Also for priests it seems trickier than people think, like you get 99 imp and don't feel like it, np just priest up to reroll it for possibly trash bin one which is much easier, thats one scenario i see with that... Having alternative to go on epic or drop faith to grind and imp is incovinient i admit, but not sure what would be good short term solution there tbh. I don't see problem with making people easier to get winner title on their mains i'm afraid of people missusing it to win on ridiculous amount of alts

Edited by kochinac

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One of the things that's a sort of acceptable exploit right now is the fact you can go to epic to do achievements you never could on freedom. Why? Suddenly difficulty scale went down the drain when people could go to Epic (without any consequences), then go back to freedom. 

 

To be honest I'd suggest shifting the goals on Epic vs those on freedom .It's just not right to use Epic now as a sort of insult-playground , where Epic is a dead server that people can use to do any goals they want without any real challenge. Want a free tome? Go to epic, pay someone 20 silvers to kill them to get your "Kill a player with a bucket" achievement. 

 

E.g. The goals on Epic shouldn't be the same as on freedom. The fact that people can use Epic as a staging ground to roll out alts, do easy accomplishments and steamroll tomes on Freedom to sell them for 100 euros a piece is just a sign on how broken this system is and will become up to the point where everyone till have a tome. 

 

Small prediction : most people who want to pvp will be forced to buy one and their main clientele will be Chaos deep pocket people. Great pvp system. Not pay to win at all or not pay to RNG at all. 

 

Want to change it for the better? Make tomes or cherries soulbound. You win one, you can only use it yourself. That means mission alts and all that crap should disappear in the process as well. You do all goals? Congratz, here's a blood of angels, but you cannot sell it for 200 euros just because you managed to do a few easy missions on Epic like kill any of the 50 dragons alive there. 

Edited by elentari

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10 minutes ago, elentari said:

Go to epic, pay someone 20 silvers to kill them to get your "Kill a player with a bucket" achievement. 

 

Right now, you don't even need to go to epic for kill a player with XXX item achievement, you can just obtain them while sparring on freedom.

 

Epic is interesting for its action speed, relatively decent spawns (like kill 20 deers is easier to do on those 'dead' servers... than on any server with broken spawn on the 'freedom' cluster), saving a priest from depriesting... or to do those last pure PvP related achievements not possible on PvE lands (locking 5 door locks... seeing you can lockpick your own boats already)...

 

And not the least, if you do all your goals on epic, you will get your tome (and maybe title) only on epic... which is not what people are looking for. I mean, even the firsts epic players to succeed (just look who they are on niarja) went back to freedom to do them.

 

Edit 1-

11 minutes ago, kochinac said:

I don't see problem with making people easier to get winner title on their mains i'm afraid of people missusing it to win on ridiculous amount of alts 

 

Sadly we already have some alt farming, fixing things for all of us won't change a thing for farmers. Making the system more fair is imho more important than punishing everyone... which never worked so far.

 

 

 

Edited by Odynn
moar stuff

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3 minutes ago, Odynn said:

 

Right now, you don't even need to go to epic for kill a player with XXX item achievement, you can just obtain them while sparring on freedom.

 

Epic is interesting for its action speed, relatively decent spawns (like kill 20 deers is easier to do on those 'dead' servers... than on any server with broken spawn on the 'freedom' cluster), saving a priest from depriesting... or to do those last pure PvP related achievements not possible on PvE lands (locking 5 door locks... seeing you can lockpick your own boats already)...

 

And not the least, if you do all your goals on epic, you will get your tome (and maybe title) only on epic... which is not what people are looking for. I mean, even the firsts epic players to succeed (just look who they are on niarja) went back to freedom to do them.

ohh i can lock 5 doors :D  on freedom 

Edited by Wulfgarr

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11 minutes ago, elentari said:

Want a free tome? Go to epic, pay someone 20 silvers to kill them to get your "Kill a player with a bucket" achievement. 

You can do that on freedom now, goal is triggered by a simple spar now. Which is ok i guess since that goals were ridiculous, but now it just hope maybe just way too easy. Only reason to go Epic is now is if you are priest to imp, build ship and maybe repair fences or mine dig gem if you are non mining/digging priest if i'm not wrong

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Yeah my point is another, this new system will allow people to figure out they can steam roll new accounts , prem them up for 2 silvers , then re roll easy achievements to do on Epic. Then they complete them win the tome on freedom and that's that. They invest some time and gain profit from quick tomes on Freedom cluster. Rinse and repeat. 

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Many achievements, including the lord of war one were updated to clarify what was required in the last update, which if you're going by the WU code is outdated and doesn't include all the fixes that have come in.

 

26 minutes ago, Odynn said:

The system is broken, thank you for noticing it, the system will be reworked and be different, thank you for doing this... Could you please make it so we have an actual chance of doing it... well that would actually be great. Achievements have been fixed 4 times so far in the last 2 weeks if i'm not wrong... one last thing to make them half decent for everyone is all we ask.

Difficulty between goals, and luck of the draw in achieving them is not ideal, it's far too early to talk about any new system as it's likely to go through a dozen changes over time.

 

With that said we won't be doing any new rerolls because it only causes further issues, some may require more work than others, that's a flaw in the system that we aim to resolve with the new one, but for this case we'll be playing it as is until the new system comes in. 

 

What we will be doing is taking note of major issues within this system that we can ensure they aren't repeated in the new system. 

 

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And yes, since Epic timers are 2x, even faster with WOA tools, you can pretty much repair 5000 fences in a few days really. Repair timers for me on epic are somewhere in the 2-5 sec area with woa tools. Not to mention other goals that are now super easy due to having 6 sec timer for imping, or even less for spam creating stuff. You could eventually do the fantastic goal that way 

Edited by shakys
Moderation Edit

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And It still doesn't fix the fact that anyone at any time can reroll new toons with easy to do goals. 

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2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

With that said we won't be doing any new rerolls because it only causes further issues, some may require more work than others, that's a flaw in the system that we aim to resolve with the new one, but for this case we'll be playing it as is until the new system comes in. 

 

1 minute ago, elentari said:

And It still doesn't fix the fact that anyone at any time can reroll new toons with easy to do goals.

 

This and that... the mains are shafted and will never get their hard won achievement and title, the alts (and tomes) will flow... fair, absolutely not.

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4 minutes ago, Odynn said:

 

 

This and that... the mains are shafted and will never get their hard won achievement and title, the alts (and tomes) will flow... fair, absolutely not.

Totaly agree on that.

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

we won't be doing any new rerolls

 

But could you increase unicorn spawn rates?

Or at least remove the "wild" restriction in that goal and allow player bred animals to count. This was a hard goal even before the rerolls happened, but now there are more people who got it rolled to them! ?

I'd much rather get my "kill drake spirit and eagle spirit" back...

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