Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Gladiator said: If TC got 100 fantastic max enchanted sickles by the same means as WU would be getting 100 50ql iron shortswords then yes, it would not be fair . What's your point? Sorry, i was just making up scenarios.. i thought thats what we were doing when you started talking about 200 tomes oops Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Xor said: Sorry, i was just making up scenarios.. i thought thats what we were doing when you started talking about 200 tomes oops My example came with reason : " All i want is to play a PVP game in which RNG doesn't change the outcome of my battles with the enemy" Yours did not. I'll ask again, WHat is your point? Or are you just here to show people how dumb you are? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 53 minutes ago, Gladiator said: My example came with reason : " All i want is to play a PVP game in which RNG doesn't change the outcome of my battles with the enemy" Yours did not. I'll ask again, WHat is your point? Or are you just here to show people how dumb you are? Being inflammatory again I see, why is it so hard for you to have an actual conversation/debate on the forums? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, FranktheTank said: Being inflammatory again I see, why is it so hard for you to have an actual conversation/debate on the forums? implying he was having a conversation there.... U know, a conversation requires you to think before you say whatever's in your head, he didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, Gladiator said: implying he was having a conversation there.... U know, a conversation requires you to think before you say whatever's in your head, he didn't. Lololololol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Xor said: Everyone knows the reward going into it. A random tome or wand or whatever this isn’t bad management. It’s a seriously way out of hand entitlement issue from some of their player base. Should they make sure they don’t give you the same tome you already received on an alt? Or it would be fine if you kept getting popular tomes so you could sell the charges? you get a random item for “winning” by completing a random set of arbitrary goals at this point it couldn’t be MORE obvious what happens for winning so if you don’t like the reward don’t bother. If you think it’s a balance issue in pvp just ask they all be removed. That seemed semi popular among them. This thread SCREAMS I need more money for this stupid item I don’t want. Its completely ridiculous, and to top it off some of you have an attitude like the Dev’s are the incompetent ones who put you in this situation! Your attitude that gamers shouldn't have expectations of rewards is completely ridiculous, when most Winners -are- going to get something nice. Blaming the few who get trash for then being upset disgusts me so much that again, I find myself running into the forum policy barrier. Giving most Winners something nice, and a few trash, is both bad business and developer incompetence, and yes, they -did- put the gamers in that situation. The irony is that it's utterly needless. If you're going to piss off customers, at least have a good reason for it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 By the way, as to tome balance, I keep hearing from certain parties that 5% DR is negligible. If that's actually true, then two very simple solutions present themselves: 1) On all tomes, set the resistance boost to 5% and remove the resistance penalty. The Red Cherry would no longer hurt physical resistance, while providing 5% poison resistance. A nice little bonus, and without a penalty, why not use it? The 5% physical resistance nerf to Smoke from Sol (from 10% to 5%) would be negligible (as we all keep hearing), and when all tomes are used, the end result would remain exactly the same: 5% resistance across the board. 2) Remove resistances completely, bonuses and negatives. After all, a 5% boost across the board is meaningless (or so we hear). Tomes can just be about spells, which should make them easier to balance. Maybe we could even have the Red Cherry spell be an actual -counter- to the Smoke from Sol spell, and vice versa (since we keep hearing about all this perfect balance and countering amongst tomes)! The bottom line again, of course, is that without any penalties, why not use a Red Cherry or White Tome? A spell is a spell! Gotta like that. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 To triple post (unless someone hops in), I see no reason why the Winner award -has- to be a tome. Personally, I'd rather see something like a randomly-rolled fantastic item (weapon/tool/armor/etc.)... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Roccandil said: To triple post (unless someone hops in), I see no reason why the Winner award -has- to be a tome. Personally, I'd rather see something like a randomly-rolled fantastic item (weapon/tool/armor/etc.)... Would be fine with me also i think. Also agree with your post for balancing them. I'm all for a rebalance, or hell a removal (please dont take my necromancer title though! lol). But I dont at all agree that the red cherry needs to be buffed, or that its unfair some get the cherry or other less desirable prizes VS some more desirable ones. Everyone knows what you might get before going into it. Everyone has the same chances to get them (even if by spamming alts until you get an easy set of goals or whatever like rumors of some are doing). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 If you got a fantastic sword , armour, even scaleset, it would not be the worth of a tome (and i dont mean money worth , i mean actual worth) simply because the tome never goes away. PVP with that shiny sword a bunch of times and you'll eventually lose it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Xor said: But I dont at all agree that the red cherry needs to be buffed, or that its unfair some get the cherry or other less desirable prizes VS some more desirable ones. Everyone knows what you might get before going into it. Everyone has the same chances to get them (even if by spamming alts until you get an easy set of goals or whatever like rumors of some are doing). Oh, it's not a question of fairness, but rather of needlessly disappointing a customer. I just don't see any good reason to do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Roccandil said: Oh, it's not a question of fairness, but rather of needlessly disappointing a customer. I just don't see any good reason to do that. Where does that line end though? Some customers were disappointed about the anniversary gift too. Plenty complained about the holiday gifts too. I think you’re pinning a “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” scenario on them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Gladiator said: If you got a fantastic sword , armour, even scaleset, it would not be the worth of a tome (and i dont mean money worth , i mean actual worth) simply because the tome never goes away. PVP with that shiny sword a bunch of times and you'll eventually lose it True. You bring up a good point about tomes: once used, they can't be stolen. Tomes are at least theoretically meant to be permanent account improvements, and removing tomes would destroy that mechanic, which I think should be acknowledged in any such discussion. (And for the record, I like the idea of permanent account improvements.) At any rate, what about no-drop fantastic items for Winners? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Roccandil said: At any rate, what about no-drop fantastic items for Winners? Everyone would buy a full scale set of that and weapons and armour and noone would ever lose anything . We got bags of keeping already being sold for a LOT of money, dont want that sh1t into my economy , and into my pvp Edited June 12, 2018 by Gladiator Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Xor said: Everyone knows the reward going into it. A random tome or wand or whatever this isn’t bad management. It’s a seriously way out of hand entitlement issue from some of their player base. Should they make sure they don’t give you the same tome you already received on an alt? Or it would be fine if you kept getting popular tomes so you could sell the charges? you get a random item for “winning” by completing a random set of arbitrary goals at this point it couldn’t be MORE obvious what happens for winning so if you don’t like the reward don’t bother. If you think it’s a balance issue in pvp just ask they all be removed. That seemed semi popular among them. This thread SCREAMS I need more money for this stupid item I don’t want. Its completely ridiculous, and to top it off some of you have an attitude like the Dev’s are the incompetent ones who put you in this situation! Why does an item exist that does literally nothing good, and makes your account worse, permanently. Outside of money value and pvp scenario, this is silly and should be re-balanced. Every tome should be roughly of equal use, wether it is through a great spell, or a useful resistance. Just like each armour has its pros and cons, (although its a bit better on epic than on freedom, please gib code) - you trade of defense for cost or movement speed. Weapons, you trade parrying ability for more damage output. It was very boring when everyone used longsword + large shield, its a lot more fun now that all weapons and shields are viable (and hopefully dual wielding soon too) - I don't see the point in having this item if it does nothing good. Just get rid of it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Xor said: Where does that line end though? Some customers were disappointed about the anniversary gift too. Plenty complained about the holiday gifts too. I think you’re pinning a “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” scenario on them Gifts are just that, gifts. "Winner", however, represents a significant investment of time and effort, and naturally people are hoping to get something nice from it, which is encouraged by the fact that most -do- get something nice. A handful, however, get complete trash. Is it really surprising that those people might be upset and disappointed? Sure, you can't please everyone, but this one doesn't look hard to fix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Gladiator said: Everyone would buy a full scale set of that and weapons and armour and noone would ever lose anything . We got bags of keeping already being sold for a LOT of money, dont want that sh1t into my economy , and into my pvp I hear you, but I shudder to think how many Winners and how many years we'd need for everyone to have a full fantastic scale set! Still, I like the idea of "Winner" providing something nice you can't lose. Edited June 12, 2018 by Roccandil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Alyeska said: Why does an item exist that does literally nothing good, and makes your account worse, permanently. Outside of money value and pvp scenario, this is silly and should be re-balanced. Every tome should be roughly of equal use, wether it is through a great spell, or a useful resistance. Just like each armour has its pros and cons, (although its a bit better on epic than on freedom, please gib code) - you trade of defense for cost or movement speed. Weapons, you trade parrying ability for more damage output. It was very boring when everyone used longsword + large shield, its a lot more fun now that all weapons and shields are viable (and hopefully dual wielding soon too) - I don't see the point in having this item if it does nothing good. Just get rid of it. Those are good points. I’m not arguing against rebalancing the tomes. I think roccandil made some good suggestions for it actually. Just don’t like people trashing the devs or the way things are because It’s been in the game for years and they’re suddenly hollaring about it being unfair because they didn’t get the “good ones”. Would be cool if poison was more viable and people would actually want some poison resistance too. I’m for options and variety so anything that moves us towards that is great. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Xor said: Would be cool if poison was more viable and people would actually want some poison resistance too. I’m for options and variety so anything that moves us towards that is great. ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 14, 2018 On 6/12/2018 at 11:08 PM, Gladiator said: Everyone would buy a full scale set of that and weapons and armour and noone would ever lose anything . We got bags of keeping already being sold dont want that sh1t into my economy , and into my pvp Daym, don't forget to put a banner in our galaxy center, in case somebody haven't heard yet it's yours. On 6/12/2018 at 10:39 PM, Roccandil said: By the way, as to tome balance, I keep hearing from certain parties that 5% DR is negligible. If that's actually true, then two very simple solutions present themselves: 1) On all tomes, set the resistance boost to 5% and remove the resistance penalty. The Red Cherry would no longer hurt physical resistance, while providing 5% poison resistance. A nice little bonus, and without a penalty, why not use it? The 5% physical resistance nerf to Smoke from Sol (from 10% to 5%) would be negligible (as we all keep hearing), and when all tomes are used, the end result would remain exactly the same: 5% resistance across the board. 2) Remove resistances completely, bonuses and negatives. After all, a 5% boost across the board is meaningless (or so we hear). Tomes can just be about spells, which should make them easier to balance. Maybe we could even have the Red Cherry spell be an actual -counter- to the Smoke from Sol spell, and vice versa (since we keep hearing about all this perfect balance and countering amongst tomes)! The bottom line again, of course, is that without any penalties, why not use a Red Cherry or White Tome? A spell is a spell! Gotta like that. This is actually a really nice one suggestion. At least better than others. I also feel Xallo, however i'm not sure if using karma for rerolling everything is the way. Instead of, I'd offer players who already used a cherry, one time possibility of removing it and giving back a charge as an item again. Just thinking louder. People were asking for years about removing non doable goals and allow people to win a game. Recently, devs removed them AND also removed tomes goals, what made winning a game so easy, almost irrelevant. After watching wurm's lately, i think it was a wrong move... anyway, devs made it so easy, and many of players that won the game before changes, left with nothing, regardless that many of their goals were way more difficult. Even title wasn't changed. And now players are able to win a game in no time, and multiple times, and still are complaining about rewards. Damn. At this moment, I'd bring back tomes goals or either disallow winning on alts. Someone complaining about a red cherry. If you don't like it, gimme! I'll use multiple charges. When I won a white tome, did I complain? No, i used one and gave away the rest. Of course I'd prefer a smoke or wand, but winning a game, wasn't yet only about a rewards, not to me. It was something rare, unique achievement. Tome was only and additional stuff. Now it's yet another thing that lost meaning and dropped to dirt. My 2 coppers. Not a fact, barely an opinion. I don't pvp, after reading all topics like this i'm still glad i don't. Also I'm not saying about "my pve". And what's good for it or not. It's not my position to state my consideration as solid facts and saying others what's good or bad just because i don't or I do like it. Everyone have a right to say what's on their minds, but we can't fall into an illusion that our vision is the only right one. And if we discuss something, we DISCUSS, not argue trying to sow our ideas into others heads. That sows only more toxicity seeds. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 14, 2018 On 6/12/2018 at 10:50 PM, Xor said: Everyone has the same chances to get them (even if by spamming alts until you get an easy set of goals or whatever like rumors of some are doing). Personalgoalfifteen name on winners list suggests that it is more than purely a rumor 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 14, 2018 Quote Recently, devs removed them AND also removed tomes goals, what made winning a game so easy, almost irrelevant. I wish. All my priests but one have non-doable goals: imp to 99, a Fo priest needing to mine a 90QL gem, etc. Obviously, if I really cared, I could just spam new toons. To be honest, since you -can- spam new toons to effectively spam goals, I wish we could just re-roll personal goals on our existing toons (is there a real difference?). But, maybe the new system the devs are talking about will take care of that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, Roccandil said: I wish. All my priests but one have non-doable goals: imp to 99, a Fo priest needing to mine a 90QL gem, etc. If only there was more than one cluster where skills can be grinded separately like everyone else is doing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, MrGARY said: If only there was more than one cluster where skills can be grinded separately like everyone else is doing I think he would have to take his, what I assume epic priest and get it 90 mining on freedom. I dunno man sounds like a baaad time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 14, 2018 1 minute ago, FranktheTank said: I think he would have to take his, what I assume epic priest and get it 90 mining on freedom. I dunno man sounds like a baaad time. yes, but it's doable if he really wanted to is more the point. or he could get 70 on freedom and then on epic go unfaithful and mine only 90ql veins/walls and sermon faith back 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
