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Mclavin

PVP updates eta? Epic plans? 1 server?

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If "epic isn't being worked on" how exactly can you justify your statements that " focus can go elsewhere"


I'll take one example because it's being screamed for: Amour Changes. 

It's remaining Epic only and was released for Epic because Epic was going to become the "home" of pvp - Where we'd cross over and have pvp.
The main reason for this because of Epic code and being able to split mechanics without effecting freedom. 
I remember being told by a staff member "we're worried about chaos because epic will have so many pvp-features"


That isn't the case.


many more updates are/was aimed for Epic, but they should no longer lock this to what Epic is right now.

Imo they need to do a lot more instead of keeping Chaos/Epic split, but how it is now, Epic being focused for future content and not chaos, big no no. 

I think since they been hush about it since Janaury, it's clear player feedback had an effect and they know a bigger move has to be made. Moving Chaos to Epic for example, removing ele and putting us all onto 1 server where items can transfer, to not give it a worthless feeling as epic currently is, but not locking a population down to one server.

idk why you think it's trolling, I love epic, infact I was one of the people who was voicing positity for Epic right up till these updates. Infact I was still pushing for pvp and created that for epic, putting Chaos on my back burner...
But then transfers hit and everything became pointless. There is no hiding from this lol. 

Let's not even talk about the Elevation map. 

I think it's actually more trolling to say Epic is fine and nothing drastic should happen lol.

'Epic' as we all know/love it, is done. "the same users"...The same users yes, but more of the same users than the 6 defending epic spamming "epic is fine", no?

understand, 95% of chaos is fine with being moved to Epic-code/reset/deleted, yet the 6 of epic oppose this because they gonna lose a crap map, ok.

Edited by Mclavin

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20 minutes ago, Inventor said:

If "epic isn't being worked on" how exactly can you justify your statements that " focus can go elsewhere"?

 

This whole thing reaks of FUD and imo had crossed the line from vested interest criticism to downright trolling. The same users spamming nearly every thread with "close epic".

 

Give one reason why Epic should stay.

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That justifies lowest population it's ever seen in it's history despite having pvp changes which most want over to chaos?

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Question for everyone,

 

Do you really think the people on epic will go to chaos, freedom, or just quit the game?

 

If they go to Chaos, that is obviously a win for shutting epic down, if they go to freedom that at least means they are still playing, if they quit, it shouldn't be shut down.

Edited by FranktheTank

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Give Epic the PvE exp math and connect them west of Chaos? 

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2 hours ago, Mordraug said:

Give Epic the PvE exp math and connect them west of Chaos? 

 

Then I'm gone. Freedom exp grinding sucks. I'm not playing on Chaos with the Freedom grind, period.

 

You "let's delete Epic" crowd clearly don't understand (or won't acknowledge) that without Epic, the armor changes you all are so hot to get on Chaos wouldn't exist. You wouldn't know about them at all, or about how well they work.

 

Furthermore, it isn't Epic holding you back from armor changes. If Epic gets deleted, that does nothing to bring armor changes to Chaos. Rather, the opposite is true: it's -Freedom- holding Chaos back.

 

The One Big Change that would help Chaos get things like the armor rebalance isn't removing Epic, but rather splitting Chaos from Freedom.

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I don't think you need to delete Epic. You don't need to disconnect Chaos. You don't need to make armour changes or merge servers or wipe the map. There's a much cleaner solution that could hit a home run across all aspects with only moderate effort.

 

Best of Both Worlds

 

There's very decent playerbase playing Wurm Unlimited. Many of them keep their eyes on Wurm Online and follow what's happening. The battle on Chaos from a few days ago caused conversation among players who had absolutely no involvement and had never played on Chaos, myself included. The reasons for people playing Wurm Unlimited usually contains one of the following reasons:

  • They started on Wurm Unlimited, and feel like they are too "late" to join in Wurm Online. (This is my chief reason for personally not playing Wurm Online)
  • They came from Wurm Online but were sick of the issues that plagued the environments they wanted to play on (stagnation, low population [epic], etc)
  • They prefer the quality of life from mods that run on Unlimited servers. Being able to mine from a wagon into loaded crates, BSB's sorting by quality, etc.
  • They consider Wurm Online to be too slow with how skill gain works, and prefer the Wurm Unlimited method of skill gain.

Not everyone on Wurm Unlimited plays for PvP either. In fact I think a large majority play for the PvE aspects of the game. You can solve almost every problem listed above with one simple solution.

 

The New Cluster

 

Add a new cluster of servers, consisting of both a PvE and PvP map, similar to how Freedom and Chaos work right now. Disconnected from Freedom, Chaos, and Epic, this would provide the first fresh start since Wurm Unlimited released. Players who have never played Wurm Online, myself included, would heavily consider trying Wurm Online for the first time. The promise of a new PvP environment disconnected from all existing servers would allow full creative freedom over balance changes and allow it to be built from the ground up to support longevity, including a proper map. This is all alongside a brand new PvE map, with the cluster running on the Wurm Unlimited skill gain system (with some changes to avoid spam creation, I hope).

 

Launching the new cluster alongside a new limited-exclusive feature would also help the launch. Rifts would be a good example. In a hypothetical, launching the cluster with Rifts as an exclusive feature for the first few months would give players a "gold rush" mentality, where they want to have access to the newest content as soon as it's available. With it going back to the other clusters later, it would cause minimal issues, as dedicated players don't miss out on content that's created.

 

This opens up new design options such as considering limited-time PvP servers that would be reset every few months, trying new features each time. Each one would be satisfactory to play on, since they could transfer everything back to the connected PvE server before it closes. Every reset would bring back players and create an ebb and flow of economics where players enter a heavy spending time before the new server opens, preparing themselves for launch.

 

The Here and Now

 

With that out of the way, I'll come back to reality. I don't forsee that happening, but it would certainly solve a lot of problems from a player perspective and developer perspective. In the meantime, the best that can be done is simply identifying problems. Suggestions are great to an extent, but sometimes they come off too forced. I'm beginning to feel this way about the epic armour changes, and want to rephrase how it's looked at. Instead of asking for the armour changes, answer the following questions:

  • What problems would the epic armour changes solve?
  • What other changes could solve the same issue?

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39 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

You "let's delete Epic" crowd clearly don't understand (or won't acknowledge) that without Epic, the armor changes you all are so hot to get on Chaos wouldn't exist. You wouldn't know about them at all, or about how well they work.

 

.......no?  People have been begging for armor balance since before Wild was even connected to Freedom.  The balance only coming to Epic has nothing to do with players, that is pure dev decision to keep it there only

 

40 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

Furthermore, it isn't Epic holding you back from armor changes. If Epic gets deleted, that does nothing to bring armor changes to Chaos. Rather, the opposite is true: it's -Freedom- holding Chaos back.

 

The One Big Change that would help Chaos get things like the armor rebalance isn't removing Epic, but rather splitting Chaos from Freedom.

 

.....no?  It's been proven that all it takes is simple code checks the same way that epic already has different code than freedom/chaos

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On 5/18/2018 at 7:11 PM, Malvado said:

Well, it's a bit strange to peek back at this game 10 years after I quit, but I honestly still see that the a lot of the parts of the game needs big changes.

 

In my opinion wurm got problems when the new combat system was implemented and instead of being improved and perhaps even revised and changed based on something else than 1 to 100, it became just another part of wurm where you had to spend a lot of time to build your character often repeating the same action x million times or hunting animals far to long.

Back in the old old ages ( 2004/05 ish ) the old system had actually some sense, but once more things where added such as ranged combat, ballistae and catapults, zombies, pets, mountable pets etc it became a big mess that just kept expanding instead of working on the basic system and fixing its issues and then adding more stuff and revising the whole system. The lack of Notch and Rolfs proper planning on that part of the game has probably ruined wurm's probability of achieving a huge playerbase.

So even if the game was indeed restarted it would probably end up in the same problems as now due to serious design flaws, but its also very problematic to disperse the playerbase over so many servers making the game less community driven and more single player ( and for that you have other possibilities ).

So, if wurm 2 wants to succeed it needs some serious redesigning on several areas.

lol, and you popped back in because??????

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On 5/19/2018 at 10:29 AM, Keenan said:

 

The information has been out there. After the recent changes we made to PvP, our focus is on other projects such as the new UI and a new account system. Bumping posts for the sake of hoping for a different answer isn't really helping anyone. When we are able to make PvP a main focus again I'm sure a post will be made.

 

New account system????  hum........

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6 hours ago, MrGARY said:

.......no?  People have been begging for armor balance since before Wild was even connected to Freedom.  The balance only coming to Epic has nothing to do with players, that is pure dev decision to keep it there only

 

Without Epic, the "armor rebalancing" would still be theoretical. With Epic, we got to see it in action.

 

Quote

.....no?  It's been proven that all it takes is simple code checks the same way that epic already has different code than freedom/chaos

 

The developers have stated impacting Freedom is the reason they're not putting the armor changes on Chaos (so far). Call them liars if you want, but I suspect it's more than code, it's economy.

 

Do you deny that the armor rebalance would massively impact armor values on Freedom? How many Freedomers would be upset if their scale were suddenly devalued?

 

The fundamental problem is that Chaos is economically joined to Freedom. To get the kind of PvP focus on Chaos people are asking for, Chaos needs to be split from Freedom. Yes, that would be a huge economic upheaval on Freedom, but in my view, it's a festering wound that needs to be lanced. Do it once, get it done, don't look back.

 

Otherwise, even if Epic were removed, Chaos -still- wouldn't get the kind of updates folks are looking for.

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3 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

Without Epic, the "armor rebalancing" would still be theoretical. With Epic, we got to see it in action.

 

 

The developers have stated impacting Freedom is the reason they're not putting the armor changes on Chaos (so far). Call them liars if you want, but I suspect it's more than code, it's economy.

 

Do you deny that the armor rebalance would massively impact armor values on Freedom? How many Freedomers would be upset if their scale were suddenly devalued?

 

The fundamental problem is that Chaos is economically joined to Freedom. To get the kind of PvP focus on Chaos people are asking for, Chaos needs to be split from Freedom. Yes, that would be a huge economic upheaval on Freedom, but in my view, it's a festering wound that needs to be lanced. Do it once, get it done, don't look back.

 

Otherwise, even if Epic were removed, Chaos -still- wouldn't get the kind of updates folks are looking for.

Roccandil is not wrong. This is the reason why armor changes arent happening. If they come to Chaos, pvpers will move on to using stuff like Glimmer Chain and dump all the drake and scale on freedom. Thats a lot of scale and drake. This will massively devalue those armors, which in turn will frustrate many freedomers who will then quit. Sadly, a handful of players on Chaos do not pay the bills: freedom does.

 

Its a dumb... no... Its a retarded reason to not want to do the change. A sound developmental improvement is being held back to protect Jimmy's slush fund. But if you sit down and think for a moment its blatantly obvious why they are doing it. If the code is an easy fix, and proven to be doable, then the economy is the one obvious reason, and they rather have Jimmy and Timmy in freedom playing with dyes and putting items on tables than a handful  of us pvpers shooting each other on Chaos. Why? Because 300 subscriptions logged in at the same time > 30 any way you slice it.

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4 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

Without Epic, the "armor rebalancing" would still be theoretical. With Epic, we got to see it in action.

What? This is dumb as hell.

 

Sorry Roccandil but I cant just agree with you like in my previous post and not have my poke at you. I have a reputation to maintain! :P

 

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The more I hear arguments centered around the Freedom market the more I question what fun is left in this game and if it's all down to greed and making money. 

 

Gary had a point : One of the greatest things in wurm is you can make RL money from it. One of the worst things in wurm is that you can make RL money from it. 

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Uuuuuuh......

 

"Connect to Chaos" =/= "delete" 

 

The rest of that strange rant was replied to by other folks so I won't bother.

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50 minutes ago, elentari said:

The more I hear arguments centered around the Freedom market the more I question what fun is left in this game and if it's all down to greed and making money. 

 

Gary had a point : One of the greatest things in wurm is you can make RL money from it. One of the worst things in wurm is that you can make RL money from it. 

 

Making money from Wurm Online is no longer a real thing. There are still a few things which give good cash, but most of that market is dead.

 

And if we compare the salary of most things eg. account sales with the salary a cleaning woman gets, it would be better to take a second job as a cleaner somewhere in a mall.

 

 

Back in the days you had the possibility to make quite a lot money. Pen a dragon hatchling and get tons of money after killing it by selling the 36 drake sets from it. Especially as kid going to school in the age of 15-16 it is quite nice to say well I earned 1k+€ by selling drake sets in a game I like to play. Who else can say that in this age but well, nowadays I would not consider Wurm Online as a way to make money.

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9 hours ago, Sklo:D said:

 

Making money from Wurm Online is no longer a real thing. There are still a few things which give good cash, but most of that market is dead.

 

And if we compare the salary of most things eg. account sales with the salary a cleaning woman gets, it would be better to take a second job as a cleaner somewhere in a mall.

 

 

Back in the days you had the possibility to make quite a lot money. Pen a dragon hatchling and get tons of money after killing it by selling the 36 drake sets from it. Especially as kid going to school in the age of 15-16 it is quite nice to say well I earned 1k+€ by selling drake sets in a game I like to play. Who else can say that in this age but well, nowadays I would not consider Wurm Online as a way to make money.

Yet the fact lies salvaging the market is the main reason why some of these great features arent released. If it affects freedom (and thus the market) it carries more weight. We might not like it, but the fact lies that Freedom is where the money is.

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18 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

What? This is dumb as hell.

 

Sorry Roccandil but I cant just agree with you like in my previous post and not have my poke at you. I have a reputation to maintain! :P

 

 

I appreciate the poke. :P

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If Freedom = Market and nothing else then I fail to see why cater to a bunch of people who keep saying the market is dead yet they still want to sell drake sets or buy them.

 

Seems to me the market had a life cycle where it sorta killed itself. Most markets tend to be in flux and constant change because outside forces or variables interact with it. Wurm is a closed space market. I really don't see the point in screwing up an entire game community just because X or Y can't sell his rare hammer or drake set that used to be worth 500$ a few years ago. Pretty damn sure computers were worth a ton of money in the 70s or 80s if you wanted to buy one for private use. Nowadays even a low-end one is dirt cheap and has more processing power than what NASA had in the 50s.

 

My point is, why the well are we catering to people complaining about a damn virtual market when it's sucking all the purpose, fun and enjoyment out of a sandbox game that seems to be centered not in a "sandbox" philosophy but rather mirroring RL economic behavior? 

 

I just want to have some fun in this game that doesn't involve someone getting an edge with RL money (the definition of pay to win). Screw the market. Here's a thought. Donate all drake/scale/rare tools and weps to the Wurm Orphanage and get a nice title out of it called "Robin Hood". 

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6 minutes ago, elentari said:

My point is, why the well are we catering to people complaining about a damn virtual market when it's sucking all the purpose, fun and enjoyment out of a sandbox game that seems to be centered not in a "sandbox" philosophy but rather mirroring RL economic behavior?  

Why? Because CCAB is not going to chase away 90% of their community to carter to the whims of a very vocal 10%. Its a simple business problem. The chance of Freedomers cancelling subscriptions over armor changes outweighs the possibility of CCAB bringing back any pvpers.

 

Business. Thats why. We might not like it, but the company is not here to please us. They are here to make money.

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6 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Why? Because CCAB is not going to chase away 90% of their community to carter to the whims of a very vocal 10%. Its a simple business problem. The chance of Freedomers cancelling subscriptions over armor changes outweighs the possibility of CCAB bringing back any pvpers.

 

Business. Thats why. We might not like it, but the company is not here to please us. They are here to make money.

I got trolled to hell for saying the exact same thing on page 1 ?

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"Business. Thats why. We might not like it, but the company is not here to please us. They are here to make money. " 

 

Kinda ironic but in a lot of fields, a business makes money by pleasing their customers, not ignoring them. Just my 2 cents. 

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

Kinda ironic but in a lot of fields, a business makes money by pleasing their customers, not ignoring them. Just my 2 cents. 

 

Which brings us back to the same question:
The 90%+ that seems to stick around and generally likes the new stuff?

-or-

The really loud couple of dozen who year after year seem impossible to satisfy?

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we already got all the accounts anyone cared about xfered off of epic, why don't we just wipe the goddamn slate clean and start again. wurm pvp glory days occur during the "beginnings" of servers... wild server took a nosedive around 2011. Epic has been one long nosedive since like 2013. Seriously, if it just was a clean slate so many players would come back. You might upset SOME of the very small population spread across 4 servers but so what? You'd gain hundreds...

 

Why do the devs ignore the playerbase so hard on this???

 

"Devs, reset epic pls its dedserv"

"Did you say BALANCE UPDATES FOR EPIC ONLY?? :)"

Edited by enricodandolo
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