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Ekib

lets talk about uniques

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so, as many know the current system for uniques is...troublesome to say the least: unless you are part of a small group of elites, no chance in hell to get to take part in a hunt, which is unfair to the community, as many pointed out but the same few keep abusing it.

to make this simple the system is hardly fair and fairly hard (even finding the uniques itself is trouble).

and i'm sure many will say the curent system is 'fair and doesnt need changing' to those i would just ask this: how 'fair' would it be if someone decided to host an impalong, and charge people to attend? so impers would have to pay a fee, as well as people who got their things imped? that's what the current unique system is like! its supposed to be a community event and its been so wraped and corrupted by greed its become impossible for actual players to take part in it.


one of the reason for those issues is penning. its been made more difficult but some still found a way around it.

as the system currently is, and from what i learned, the uniques are penned underground, in a reinforced room, with the entrance collapsed, and dirt droped over the top so they cant mine out, with a deed up top.

keeping in mind how uniques are basicly demigod like strong creatures, its ridiculous a simple stone wall and dirt would keep them held up.

 

an idea against this would be to teleport the unique topside after it collapse any mine tunnel in an area around it, or to let them destroy reinforcement and mine their way out. freeing it from the trap without too much damage to the area.

option 2 is the unique is pissed, very very very pissed, after all you just tried to trap it, a demigod, into a dark and damp rock room. should the unique be unable to exit, (or as soon as hit by the shadows of a cave, lost link to the sun and the gods in heavens....pretty sure they could be many reasons) they will begin to gather their strength into an attack such as a small meteor hit. it would take some time to charge, likely an hour, so that they dont damage tunnels such as highways too easily.

following the landing, any buildings and mines in a 10-20 tiles radius would be destroyed, the dirt and sands would be blown away, lets not mention the trees, or anyone stupid enough to get too close to the show. as well some lava tiles could appear and the rock levels be wraped. so the unique AND its body could risk ending up in a pool of lava and being destroyed. yes its harsh, but that should stop people from penning them. some effects could change depending of the unique (forest giant could create thorns in its wake, ect)

also if its not killed in lava, the unique could gain a status: enraged (cause pissed off wouldnt be proper, but you get the idea) giving it even more dangerous combat capacity ( think agressive vs normal fighting) faster and harder attacks, more frequent specials, the whole lot. this status could last a few hours up to a few days, stackable several times if someones tried to pen it again.

to avoid people using this to grief the enraged state should make uniques back away when entering the perimeter of a deed, until its calmed (some sort of divine protection). this could also work to keep uniques from going near deeds and actively fleeing the pens if this isnt already the case.

 

so that's a few ideas against penning them. but what about reviewing the whole finding them? currently a tedious process of casting locate monster spells over and over from what i understood. so limited to a few priests with the spell, and those who have the time to travel all over different maps.

some mentioned the rift beams. what if the unique itself created such beams? about once a day perhaps, so its main whereabouts can be found but not its exact location... a beam could also trigger if the unique has been underground a certain time. might be the first sign of the earlier ideas.

 

an other idea would be the rift themselves. the uniques would not come right away instead they would arrive like a rift, an egg or petrified statue of the unique could appear, casting a beam for all to see, and 3 days later the magic it gathered starts to overflow. at this point waves of creatures would be drawn to the area, in relation as to which uniques arrives. wolves, bears and the like for a forest giant, scorpions and crocs for dragons (or weakened drakes not droping any hide but coul get meat from them?), sea creatures like sharks for a sea serpent (give the serpent an update while at it? or add a kraken unique )  i think you get the idea.

as well for this option the loot would be like it is for rifts, you have to take part for a chance to get something, and the more people the more creatures so the more chance of good rewards. this should make it more fair for all taking part, and incite people to be many so that rewards be more intresting, in order to help balance things out. without the need for sharing the loot randomly (or in some case it was mentioned that some auction off the entire loot, making the actual system even less fair than it is)

 

if you have other ideas and suggestions, please add them to the list, i'm sure those few are by no mean the only options to fix the current issue.

 

Edit:

-Milkdrop's idea is to change rifts so once its complete, a 4th 'wave' with a random unique appears. the corpse would dissapear i assume and the loot be shared with the rift system.

personaly i love the idea: would boost people's attendance to the rifts, the share each would take home would be both secure and private. and all people would be present straight for the killing.

only con would be those weary from the long rift fight, but shouldnt be much of an issue to be honest

 

-several people are saying not to talk about this and go hunt my own uniques, using a system that i beleive flawed and not to try to change anything. 

i guess its a dogma like many other. and since we've all been forced to follow this so far i guess no need to list the pros and cons. or shall i ?

and that i'm greedy and only wish to better this system for my own personal gain. no point arguing there, whatever i say will be twisted and used against me :blink:

 

-Mataleao suggests adding soundtracks and visuals in the land from the passage of uniques. making their presence reflect more accuratly their fearsome nature. i like it, something as strong as a giant would leave signs of its passage.

perhaps a mound like with other monsters but it doesnt spawn them, just once the unique is slain we can examine it for reward, might fix some of the issues several hinted at.

 

-Etherdrifter suggest a point system (monster slayer karma!) where participating gives you points to then cash in and choose what we wanted when enough points got gathered. have to admit that would work very well, since the points earned per fights would be limited, the more the merrier :) only concern would be if you go to forest giants only, wouldnt make sense to get drake hide. so maybe individual monster points for each monster class, and can pick something from a type if you have 50% points from that monster minimum? say you want to get dragon skull and it needs 10 points, 5 can be from anything 5 needs to be from dragon/drake kills. definatly an idea that needs more digging!

 

-Roccandil noted an intresting issue in how the fights are boring and most dont need to do much, just wack away for ages until its dead. perhaps adding a hint of strategic actions( like priests do with healings during fights) might help?

 

-Kochinac suggest the alts armies in local dont share of the loot if they didnt take part. links to ether's point system in a way.

 

-Alyeska suggests change on the xanadu map which is one with the most issues of unfound uniques. longer ranged pendulums and limiting the age of the uniques so that if unfound for too long. they re-appear elsewhere.

would certainly work in this map.

 

Edited by Ekib
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I don't know if I like the idea of uniques broadcasting a static location the way rifts do. I'd prefer it be more of an actual hunt.

 

Aside from that: I'm glad you're looking into ways to improve this situation!

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A single person on a hellhorse can 100% search a 8x8 server in 2-3 hours you dont need a group at all, large groups are just for timezone reasons mainly, but uniques spawn at around the same time every time it seens so kind of a moot point. Ive found several uniques in the last few months by myself/with 1 other priest, and i dont even search for them that often.

 

If people couldn't pen them there would be 0 public slayings as you wouldnt trust some random people to not steal the body.

 

For your random impalong suggestion, you can decide not to go, just like you can decide not to hunt for uniques. 

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Just pop a random unqiue as the new 4th final wave of a rift (no dragons ofc, just the troll guy, goblin guy and the giants and idk what else there is); unique hunters still got their uniques and everyone else gets a swing at one at a rift.

Yey everyone is happy... probably not *waits for people crying over devaluing the unique loot or whatever else reason*... almost forgot we play games to have fun. :p

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oblivion sorry but currently the number of public slaying is kind of low if not 0 already. as far as i can tell most of the uniques are kept away and people arent able to attend. also about body theft, a rift like system of drop would cover this. could be like the avatar of the gods: the body scatter into pieces, everyone gets a part in their inventory.

as with the impalong it was to illustrate the point of how ridiculous the system currently is (a metaphor if you will).

some people keep all the uniques to themselves for the rare loot, and sell those for a fortune, cutting away the rest of the community from a community event. its hardly fair at all. we're here to enjoy the game, but some of the content get locked away by other players for personal gain. its an issue. plain and simple. and we're here to discuss possible solutions that could be done.

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Maybe corpse stealing could be preventing somehow, but unique slayings such as they are now is not a fair game at all.

Edited by Rumi

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24 minutes ago, Ekib said:

oblivion sorry but currently the number of public slaying is kind of low if not 0 already. as far as i can tell most of the uniques are kept away and people arent able to attend.

Pen them yourself and make it lublic then, its really not as hard as you think it is.

 

27 minutes ago, Ekib said:

some people keep all the uniques to themselves for the rare loot, and sell those for a fortune, cutting away the rest of the community from a community event. its hardly fair at all. we're here to enjoy the game, but some of the content get locked away by other players for personal gain.

They spent time gems and money finding a unique so they get rewards, you sit at deed and complain on the forums so you get nothing. Seems fair to me. Perhaps try pming people from these dastardly groups and offering your help if you believe that you need a huge group. It really seems like you make no effort hunting uniques but feel entitled to them. The solution is to go hunt uniques but you won't do that.

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oh you want to talk money? ok fine. gems? gems now are pretty worthless. for 1s you could get a good bunch of them. just a few more silver for a deed..lets say...10 silver for a basic deed and a pile of gems tops to find a unique and pen it? and as you said yourself: finding them is so easy! so lets say maximum time it would take would be a day then? that is nothing.

now lets talk 'fair' rewards. those tomes... few years back they sold for about 20s per charge. there's 3 charges. nowadays seems the price was boosted to 40-60 to even up to a gold, some must be really wanted. so...1 gold times 3 at best... for 10s and a day invested. darn i wish i had stock actions that raised to well. that's what... 30 times the initial investment. and we didnt count the other stuff yet!

same thing for a set of drake hide or scale. oh and lets not talk about the blood shall we? few 2s alts and you get enough to make a killing with potions.

also an other method of getting more money is aparently instead of sharing the loot now some people decided to auction it. that's right. no more random winner, you want something? get your wallet out! ... and over 1s for 1 dragon meat does sound a bit exessive.

so clearly 1 kill can bring over a gold coin, possibly 2 with a bit of luck.

in what world is that fair to anyone to hoard all those and sell them for impossible prices, when all you have to do is " pen them yourself, they arent hard to find". that's not a valid solution. the problem is that this system as it is stops people from enjoying the game's content, because a few people decided they would rather take monetary gain over their fellow player's enjoyment, who technicly are also paying customers of the game. it was built back by the devs some years ago to create community events again and since then it has been locked away by a few. and pretending the 'investment' of gems time and money is worth the reward is not only a poor joke its an insult to anyone with a shread of inteligence. since when does placing a deed for a few days is worth items selling for as high as a gold coin.

clearly you enjoy the system as it is, and a look into trade chat logs gave me the proof i needed to see you are one of those who benefit from that, and do not want to see a change. hope those scale gloves and rare bone sold well for you, i dont need to ask to know you made way more than it cost to pen the dragon you got it from. but i would appreciate if you stoped from trying to troll this discuttion. its for ideas into bettering a system that is flawed, and you are clearly biased to keeping it as it is since you benefit from it. also the same argument over and over against change behing "just go pen one yourself" is not a proper argument, you and others just turn around in circles to distract people from the real issues.

 

good thing rift's loot are given randomly to people or with that kind of behavior we'd have people saying "you can just pen a rift and clear it yourself" for moon metals and shoulder pads.

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Well... going out on a limb here as I am not thaaat long around to know stuff of the old days and most I know from that time is hearsay.

The game was designed by Rolf with mainly PVP in mind, I suppose thats how he thought about uniques as well... people fighting over them, competition.

 

Nowdays Wurm is what? 20% PvP and the rest sits on the PvE isles grinding skills.

The game obviously did not went the heavy PvP way Rolf wanted it to be, but the systems surrounding that from back in the days did not yet adjust to this (most probably did, the unique system has not changed much or at all since I play anyhow).

 

Of course the majority which is not highly competative or playing with the knifes against each other throats type of mentality wants to enjoy this content as well... and now the sides clash.

The competative guys want to keep their special toys because they put effort into getting it done and thats their justtification for this and I have to admit - they do have a point.

Having things served on a silver platter works fine in mainstream games, Wurm however is pretty niché.

However, I do think this should not stop us from improving things.

 

Mixing it up a bit would only be good for the game and thats what we want right now, because if we only keep arguing that things should not be changed because "old days" or "it was always like that" or "put more effort into it!" (or because "omg I will lose my cash source!" /s ) then the game will only crumble more... and with that, there wont be many people left buying those tomes or whatever else.

 

I was somewhat serious btw with the 4th Wave add to a Rift being a big bad guy - it shouldn't be to hard and then apply the rift loot system to that one as well.

Would make Rifts better and give everyone who wants to see a unique a chance to go to a Rift and actually see one and cease the old quabble over this topic.

 

But if you take part in the discussion here, please void your mind of any cash related thoughts - this is no place to be greedy when we just want the game to improve and keep people playing or I daresay gain more and new players.

(and yes, I get that this is just a small cog in the entire machine of keeping people playing and happy... but gota start somewhere, and this seems easy enough of a fix to me to push for it)

Edited by Milkdrop
typos v.v
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If its better than your stock options, if people hoard and auction it, if it stps other people from enjoying content go pen it . I wanted WC potions so i went and penned a FG, i needed red dragon for a personsl goal so i got a red dragon and a group to kill it, a persons deed was getting demolished by a kyklops so i went and penned it so itd stop bashing walls. You can assume its all for greed but in reality theres plenty of community in unique groups, you're just not in them. I just pointed out your idea sucks and would lead to all slayings being private, call me biased all you want i really dont care.

 

If its so cheap do it yourself, ill give you guides on how to search for them, their most common spawn areas ill even help you pen it, but even with all that help you'd still put no effort into it and cry on the forums. You're exactly the same as everyone thats complained about the unique groups.

 

TLDR git gud, put some effort into hunting and making friends with others that hunt.

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46 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

You can assume its all for greed but in reality theres plenty of community in unique groups, you're just not in them. I just pointed out your idea sucks and would lead to all slayings being private, call me biased all you want i really dont care.

 

Nah... at least in my opinion you aren't greedy, I have seen you do plenty of good things and for all it matters in my book you are a good guy who plays with a lot effort put towards your goals.

But you have to admit there is people who do it for the greeds sake, that can not be denied.

 

Personally I could care less if someone is greedy or not, but this argument over private slaying and the drama surrounding it has going on for ages and every now and then it flares up again... it's getting old... never ever will everyone be happy with whatever happens, sometimes you just have to please the majority to keep going forward.

It's maybe not always a good thing but I think there could be a good middleground here.

 

 

As for your "get into those groups" or "find friends" ... heck, I do not know what I do wrong, maybe I am to obnoxious on the forums? (or my char is plain useless so there is no benefit for anyone in befriending me :P )

But I have exactly had 7 friends since I started Wurm when it released.

2 I never saw again as they quit 4 weeks into release, 1 is/was a dev whom apparently quit as well, 1 quit and started to play on WU servers, 1 has not logged in since ages - is still around on discord though and 1 is rather new on my list and does play

 

In Wurm it takes a real effort to find people and befriend them, like in any other MMO I played (and I played a lot) you run a dungeon with people or whatever and you may end up with a friend more or not if you performed/behaved well.

In Wurm this is not as easy, the biggest chance to meet people is probably at a Impalong? Maybe at a Rift? Or on the forums... but other than that I would not know.

Oh right, the PvP crowd is probably tight knit in their communities as well - but if you do not take part in PvP you are pretty much out of touch with a lot of people.

And I am not the type of person who slams herself at others just to have someone on her friendslist for whatever else odd reason.

 

Actually, the place I do type the most at with other people (in regards to Wurm) is when Emoo streams.

But in game...? Sometimes a bit in GL, but that does not really foster friendships or makes you suddenly be invited to a private hunting group.

 

Maybe I'm just a social failure, I really don't know but Wurm is the game with the least player interaction for me ever.

Outside of the points I mentioned I really don't see any interaction point with other people.

 

I even considered to move servers merely for the community aspect, as it is easier to get around on a smaller one compared to Xanadu (not to mention the occasional lags).

But ditching 2 years of terraforming work on my deed would really hurt...

 

Essentialy it is most likely my own fault and something I do wrong, but I am not complaining - just telling how it looks from my view.

I am fine with sitting on my deed grinding my skills with my main and priest alts... but making friends... let alone multiple to take down a unique... no idea how to go about that in Wurm.

Edited by Milkdrop
typos v.v

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go find your own and kill it the way you want

Xanadu    Black Dragon Hatchling    2014-10-29 03:29 AM
Xanadu    Troll King    2016-01-02 04:53 AM
Xanadu    Green Dragon    2017-01-27 10:10 AM
Xanadu    White Dragon Hatchling    2017-02-16 11:56 PM
Xanadu    Forest Giant    2017-04-11 11:17 PM
Xanadu    Green Dragon Hatchling    2017-05-01 06:24 PM
Xanadu    Blue Dragon    2017-09-29 06:10 AM
Xanadu    Red Dragon Hatchling    2017-10-30 08:14 PM
Xanadu    Goblin Leader    2018-02-04 08:27 PM
Xanadu    White Dragon    2018-04-20 09:16 AM

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sorry if you read me wrong milkdrop but yea i do love the idea of a rift's unique finnish, its a well thaught idea and could very easily work on all points, was thinking of editing the main post to add it to the end, along with anyone else's ideas.

 

and while i want to avoid the cash issue cause its not my goal, i also want things to be clear: the main reason people keep the uniques for themselves is for the cash. not for the pleasure of hunting one, if so they would be more people invited to those 'group' hunts and they wouldnt try to squeeze every coin they can out of it.

we have to be honest about it since the loot and its value its not just part of the issue, but i also beleive the main cause we have this issue in the first place.

 

and to those who keep saying 'go pen it go pen it' i guess i need to make this clear. this is NOT the discussion for this. this current system as it is is flawed, or it would not have been so easily abused.  thus this topic was made to discuss possible fix that could be done. yet people cannot speak because as soon as uniques are mentioned the post gets flooded with "GO PEN IT YOURSELF" people. all your keep saying is "go use the system as it is and stop talking cause we dont want it to change" by flooding the discussion, and stoping people who could have constructive ideas to be able to reply without taking side in the drama.

 

 

if i want trolls i can find some around my house, dont need the forums. stay on topic. 

and congratulation faty you just listed 10 uniques that are penned...what was the original post about again? oh... woops

 

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One change I would like to see in regards to uniques:

 

Sound & visual cues to their presence.

 

A dragon, for example:

It roars, audible within its local. It leaves a trail of destruction that marks its passage across the lands - fallen and uprooted trees, packed dirt tiles, animal corpses strewn about.

 

I hear birds chirping all the time, even ducks (where they at???). Something as Epic as a dragon (or other uniques) deserves its own soundbytes.

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Any system might be abused, so I guess current one is fine to me.
Only thing that I'm missing still is pendulum working on uniques, that's all what i need yet. And maybe some tracks or other marks on ground. 

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1. Go to Epic.

2. Find an unique (there are plenty).

3. Kill it.

4. Sell the loot.

 

All your skills and stats cross to Epic.

You only need to invest in or get armor/weapon.

You probably find 0 competition to kill uniques. Moreover, some people will thank you for killing it, couse on less populated servers uniques became pain in the ass.

You will find much harder to sell loot, but there are still some people that gonna buy it eventually. Could be a matter of time.

You take your silver back to freedom or other fairyland.

 

Everybody happy.

 

giphy.gif

Edited by Wilczan

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24 minutes ago, Ekib said:

and congratulation faty you just listed 10 uniques that are penned...what was the original post about again? oh... woops

Only charcoal (BDH) is penned afaik. If someone penned all those uniques why haven't they killed them after all this time? All unique hunters are greedy bastards that only care about money, right? Can't see why they wouldn't kill em if that's the case.

28 minutes ago, Ekib said:

this current system as it is is flawed, or it would not have been so easily abused.

If people spent 5+ years hunting uniques and they're really good at it, that would make them master hunters, not make the system abused. It may seem flawed if you're bumbling around on a 0 speed horse while they're set up on all servers but the fact is they're just better at it than you.

32 minutes ago, Ekib said:

all your keep saying is "go use the system as it is and stop talking cause we dont want it to change" by flooding the discussion, and stoping people who could have constructive ideas to be able to reply without taking side in the drama.

 

4 hours ago, Ekib said:

-Oblivionnreaver and Faty are saying not to talk about this and go hunt my own uniques, using a system that i beleive flawed and not to try to change anything. 

No-one said not to talk about it. It's more the fact that someone that has no idea how unique hunts work or anything like that is calling it a broken system without even making an effort to figure it out or get included in it. I'm saying to hunt uniques and you'll see how "flawed" the system is, i offered you help learning to hunt if you completely ignored that, It's perfectly fine the way it is and it'd be stupid to change it because a small group of people are unhappy they aren't handed free imbue potions to sell with 0 effort put in (hint like 90% of people going to public slayings sell whatever they get, watch trade chat when a public event ends, hunters aren't the only greedy ones), while suggesting ways that would actually make it worse. Making it unpennable makes public fights go down to 0 and the rift idea just promotes having a bunch of alts and you'll complain when i go with 9 accs over 30 str and get more loot than you with that system.

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20 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

the rift idea just promotes having a bunch of alts and you'll complain when i go with 9 accs over 30 str and get more loot than you with that system.

Easy fix, limit loot given to one char per connected IP.

If you run 9 VPNs you deserve it though. :P

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-1

 

If you want in on a unique, look for one and claim it. You aren't entitled to anything.

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funny how you all assume i'm entittled or this or that yet blame me for saying that most of those small group that hunt uniques and keep them to themselves make a fortune from it .... want to make this clear? i already hunted uniques, got my loot and can buy more from what i got in the bank i made working honestly. i do not care about the loot, i care about fairness and how a few dictactes to other players what they can and cant do by locking away a section of the game's content. but clearly its more fun for some to troll the subject and flood with missinformation instead of actualy taking part in the discussion with constructive information.

 

 

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This has nothing to do with being entitled to anything, unless you are a melenial who gets that phrase thrown at them around the clock I do not see why you would even bringt it up here.

Oh right - unless you didn't read the post properly and thus failed to grasp what the post is about.

 

Wurm is a game, games are supposed to be fun.

If we keep losing people and not gaining new ones because of non-fun systems then that is worth a discussion imho.

As I said above, I get this is only a small part in the big picture, but it is a part of it and it shows the ugly greedy nature of the some people that play this game so it further drives possible new and old people away.

 

I see no harm done in adding them to Rifts to be honest (we do not have any lore really that would care for that or? :P ), so far I have seen only one attempt to try to counter that idea and it was badly executed as well.

The hunting groups can keep their roaming uniques and dragons and so on and Rift people get a bit more of the games flavor, there is zero harm done in this... ofc unless you want to sell their loot and keep it valuable but then we get back to being greedy and as I said, being greedy only harms the game more in the long run than it does any good.

Open your eyes and take a look at the dwindling numbers, some things have to be changed... not just one... but some, but trying to belittle the discussion will only harm you greedy guys as well, because who is supposed to buy your loot mh?

No one left to do that... or wait, I got an idea... stay with me here...

 

We could invent a new Pendulum cast "Lurker in the Wallet" who locates the players with big coin purses and gold stashes and then those amazing groups could roam the servers, trying to find those players and throw loot at them hoping something sticks!

 

Man... outdid myself here...

 

There, now you see in what direction you steer a possible good discussion.

Maybe the next person thinks before they post and actually adds something of value instead of showing pure greed.

Edited by Milkdrop
typos v.v
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Personally, I always thought a points system would be better.  The only thing to avoid then would be alt abuse.

 

You go to a dragon killing, dragon dies.

Everyone gets some blood

If you were fighting it, or had landed a blow, or healed someone who landed a blow, you get a point.

If you contribute over 10% in damage, you get an extra point. (* could be problematic, but still could work out?)

If you land the final blow, you get an extra 3 points. (so the maximum points one can get is 5 from one slaying if one is heavily involved)

Butchering the dragon gives a ton of dragon meat, and various glands/organs.

It also gives a buff to everyone in local based on the unique slain.

 

Points can be cashed in at spawn towns; the various drops costing a certain number of a points.  Attend 30-50 (or 6-10 with maximum participation) slayings, you should be looking at enough hide (or scale) for a full armour set, or a ONE CHARGE tome.

 

Nice and easy, everyone wins, slayings can be nice and public again.

 

Edited by Etherdrifter
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well looks like i was wrong. tomes selling at 100-200s not 20. still is a fortune in my opinion and why i am not intrested in them personaly. even if my personal goal says i should. but i digress.

they wasnt inflation, but still a very lucrative business to farm uniques...and lock away part of the game to others while at it

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Uniques are fine.  If you're hungry for unique loot, go find it yourself.

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