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Warlander

Interest in Wurm trading site

Wurm trading site  

66 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Wurm trading site is a good idea?

  2. 2. How often would you use it?

    • Every day
    • Few times per week
    • Few times per month to once per week
    • Few times per year to once per month
    • Never
  3. 3. How would you use it?

    • Instead of forums and trade chat
    • In addition to forums and trade chat
    • In addition to forums, but no trade chat
    • In addition to trade chat, but no forums
    • I wouldn't use it


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Like in topic. I'm thinking what would be the possible interest about the Wurm trade site, with 3 questions in this poll.

Please keep in mind that this is informative poll only - it doesn't mean that I will actually create such site, but I would like to see your opinions on such idea.

 

How could such site look like and how would it function? Few key points:

  • No direct connection with a game or forum in any way
  • Registration required for both sellers and buyers, with manual verification of in-game account by site admin or moderator (seller registration required for auctions, but if someone just wants to buy something from shop or other sale he can use site just for a search function)
  • Ability to list normal items, bulk items, creatures and services as auctions, temporary sales and permanent sales (shops)
  • Average transaction looking like this: user winning auction/wanting to buy item > trade offer is shown on site to buyer who confirms it before in-game trade > in-game transaction > both sides confirm on site trade took place, buyer gives seller rating
  • Auctions can have hidden reserve, but this reserve must be actually specified and will be shown after the auction ends if it isn't met
  • High focus on search function (which is in my opinion the biggest problem with Wurm trading right now)
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auctions without fictional buyouts/reserves  +100

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I have to say that I would value such a tool, though I fear that it could have potential misuse problems.

 

One of the early problems with eBay when they were first starting out is that their verification processes could be exploited. Buyers could simply say that they never got the items they did actually receive, and often times sellers would be forced to issue them a refund, meaning they got their product 100% free. Per that there was the ability to contact site admins / game mods upon potential transaction faults, that's where potential for misuse skyrockets in my eyes, so that should probably be left to individuals through PM. I feel like something like this, done by a 3rd party, would really have to use the honor system, and we've all seen how well that works with the community Wurm has attracted nowadays. (It doesn't.)

 

This site is 3rd Party, so obviously your site has no stake or say in whether the transaction is completed successfully or not. But the rating system is where people can be nasty just because they want to be. This is why eBay eventually changed their feedback system so people couldn't leave negative feedback if they did actually get their item.

Edited by whereami

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7 minutes ago, whereami said:

I have to say that I would value such a tool, though I fear that it could have potential misuse problems.

 

One of the early problems with eBay when they were first starting out is that their verification processes could be exploited. Buyers could simply say that they never got the items they did actually receive, and often times sellers would be forced to issue them a refund, meaning they got their product 100% free. I feel like something like this, done by a 3rd party, would really have to use the honor system, and we've all seen how well that works with the community Wurm has attracted nowadays. (It doesn't.)

 

In case of bulk sales, services and animals it's easy to verify with screenshots, in case of item sales there isn't really way to confirm that, but user reputation and comments should give a hint.

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Could this be a official game feature, with a interface ingame and wagoneer support? Cross server wagoneer down the road maybe?

 

Not really sure how I feel about 3rd party.

Edited by Niki

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1 hour ago, whereami said:

I have to say that I would value such a tool, though I fear that it could have potential misuse problems.

 

One of the early problems with eBay when they were first starting out is that their verification processes could be exploited. Buyers could simply say that they never got the items they did actually receive, and often times sellers would be forced to issue them a refund, meaning they got their product 100% free. Per that there was the ability to contact site admins / game mods upon potential transaction faults, that's where potential for misuse skyrockets in my eyes, so that should probably be left to individuals through PM. I feel like something like this, done by a 3rd party, would really have to use the honor system, and we've all seen how well that works with the community Wurm has attracted nowadays. (It doesn't.)

 

This site is 3rd Party, so obviously your site has no stake or say in whether the transaction is completed successfully or not. But the rating system is where people can be nasty just because they want to be. This is why eBay eventually changed their feedback system so people couldn't leave negative feedback if they did actually get their item.

 

The wurm forums are in no way tied into anyones account so really even the wurm forums are just another 3rd party site.

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I would at LEAST try it, and give it a good run.

 

A better search / history compared to forums would be great for traders trying to PC items.

 

I'd also like to see a more legitimate and streamlined form of auctions.

 

I wouldn't be worried about trade / scam issues myself, as those risks are already there on forums IMO. However, it would be wise for anyone to have some evidence for the trades done on a third party site ingame otherwise i'd imagine GMs could do little to help

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Can't say I'd use it; and it may fragment an already fragmented community further.

 

If it had some link in to the official forums, or was well advertised, that may go a fair distance to helping?  But unless it outright replaced the forum/global trade?  I doubt it would be worth it at this point.

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I would also prefer ingame feature like auction house... selling via wagooneers is a step in good direction...

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Consider integrating it with the forum, make it feel like it would be another "section" of wurm site. Like migrating the forums or changing their layout.

 

It would help adoption.

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20 minutes ago, Xor said:

I would at LEAST try it, and give it a good run.

 

A better search / history compared to forums would be great for traders trying to PC items.

 

I'd also like to see a more legitimate and streamlined form of auctions.

 

I wouldn't be worried about trade / scam issues myself, as those risks are already there on forums IMO. However, it would be wise for anyone to have some evidence for the trades done on a third party site ingame otherwise i'd imagine GMs could do little to help

 

I think search/history would really help newbies to determine optimal prices for their bulks, while also giving experienced players rough idea on how to price their stuff, making things much easier and faster both for sellers and buyers. As a side effect through we could see more intense price battle, especially in bulk items market where there are lots of sellers and goods are more or less equal.

 

Auctions under such system would be VERY clear - automated auction end, sniper protection mechanics built-in and full transparency.

 

Evidence would be there in form of past transactions logs everyone can view (if these transactions were registered of course, it would be forced only for auctions and optional for other transactions after all).

 

3 minutes ago, Anarres said:

Consider integrating it with the forum, make it feel like it would be another "section" of wurm site. Like migrating the forums or changing their layout.

 

It would help adoption.

 

IPBoard aren't good target for such customization compared to other forum engines and it would force the site to be completely dependent on it. Plus, I would prefer the tool to be 3rd party to have full control over development and releases. On the other hand, external API would surely be there as it would be needed for live updates/notifications anyway.

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Add on top of it an Ebay like system of upvoting good sellers and leaving reviews, and I like it.

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If via an API your personal wagoner can already set up the delivery to the person that won the auction for bulk goods

Via another API see on the trading website if delivery in progress/delivered etc.

 

Via API individual items sent by your Merchant stocking that specific good via COD to the buyer etc.

 

So in other means truly automated Merchants (like real ones lol)...then I am all for it.

 

 

BIGGEST ISSUE that I see is...with full transparency, the prices for products will continue to decrease at an even higher rate....because only the lowest or almost lowest offers will get accepted - seeing all prices for a specific product.

 

Wurm Market isn't self-regulating, because frankly it is too small for that - too few buyers, so therefore prices will just drop....faster than in a non transparent market

 

Because of that - only as a "yet another 3rd party website"  for wurm....i'd have to say no.....

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1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

 

The wurm forums are in no way tied into anyones account so really even the wurm forums are just another 3rd party site.

 

Fully disagree - the game and chat rules can ONLY be found on the Wurm Forums. Because of that the forums ARE part of Wurm Online. Without using the forums you cannot function properly in the game (a big problem I addressed with the staff a LOT of times)

 

But I don't want to derail the topic. So I won't reply further on this topic :) 

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How about linking merchants to a central hub on each server and that connects between servers. Like the trader is the central hub and the merchant can be on your deed linked to the central hub with wagoneers able to auto-deliver if on highway system or deliver to central hub/ starter towns.

 

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I really miss the live auction system that a mud named medievia has or used to anyways, you would put your item up with a start bid and it would enter the auction queue. When its turn came around it would be time to bid on it if anyone was interested, I think that could work well in wurm for single items, for bulks a new system using wagoneers could be created I am sure.

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7 hours ago, Warlander said:
  • No direct connection with a game or forum in any way
  • Registration required for both sellers and buyers, with manual verification of in-game account

 

Contradiction?

 

Either way GMs wont be involved in 3rd party things so it would have no support

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46 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

 

Contradiction?

 

Either way GMs wont be involved in 3rd party things so it would have no support

 

1. User registers

2. Active site admins/mods get notification about registration, user might receive list of active admins/mods as well

3. One of sides PM another

4. Verification done

 

This could be dropped completely, but I think it gives less chance to exploit auctions if such verification is actually done. Alternatively, instead of gating registration it could be optional and give "verified" status (with option to block non-verified accounts from taking part in auctions).

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I've seen a few people brainstorm this idea, myself included. I disagree with the first tenet of "No direct connection with a game or forum in any way". I think Wurm should move in the opposite direction.

 

Right now there's no link between Wurm Online/Shop accounts, and Wurm Forum accounts. I think that's a bad experience for customers (it's confusing to maintain multiple accounts, and the way emails and accounts are linked and password recovery works...should be revisited), and it's a bad experience for developers (I want to be able to verify that someone owns a Wurm Online account for several use cases for Niarja. That's not possible). Integrating to a single account system would be better (You can set up Invision board to do this), and would also solve a lot of the problems that'd you run into when trying a make an external Wurm trading website.

 

really like the idea of a Wurm trading website, I just have different ideas about the design of the account management system.

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16 minutes ago, Warlander said:

 

1. User registers

2. Active site admins/mods get notification about registration, user might receive list of active admins/mods as well

3. One of sides PM another

4. Verification done

 

This could be dropped completely, but I think it gives less chance to exploit auctions if such verification is actually done. Alternatively, instead of gating registration it could be optional and give "verified" status (with option to block non-verified accounts from taking part in auctions).

 

At most this can assure the wurm players that the account has at least a character in game, there is no way this will validate alts in any fashion.

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I like the idea, but to be fair, what we need is more safe and accessible ways to conduct transactions. If there is no in game support for the website, it will be yet another site for us to check when buying/selling. People are lazy by nature and most people will use either the forums or the trade site, not both. This will force players to look in two places when looking for something. Considering the fact the new site would be yet another registration process requiring more effort, I can see many people just not using it.

 

If it has advertisement? Even less will use it.

 

Point is, you need both a carrot and a stick. The site needs to be reeeealllyyy good and much superior to the forums, and it needs to replace the forums. Both. As long as one is competing with the other, there will be issues.

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I dont get the reason for the idea?

 

We have  a trade channel where people can list WTS WTB WTT and PC.  I do think that it scrolls pretty fast at times so you miss out.  I do think maybe linking trade chat to a bigger website chat logger that shows things a bit clearer and over more time would be a good idea.

 

Also has there been a lot of scams of people buying things and not getting them.. Selling and not getting them?  Whats the impetus for the new auction site?

 

How about we talk about a WURM store first. HECK i sent that email out to a community manager weeks ago and have heard ZIP.  I had lots of people I talked to interested in that?

 

Also if were going to do this and go on about API lets just go full bore into a character bazaar where you can only sell through the auction  site.  Be like Eve online and milk it for a 10 dollar transaction fee. 

 

I think what your trying to do is make a sales/auction tracker where people can get an idea of what things go for.  That way it secures an economic outlook a bit better and gives more data on pricing.  Even Ill admit wurm pricing is wackadoodle even on basic mats.  Mortar which requires less actions then bricks to make yet sells for more..why?  because at first it a pain in the butt to make and has a higher failure rate?  Stuff like that I wonder about.

 

Id like to know more about the WHY we think we need it over just needing something for new people.

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I dont know why we would need this 

Why drag people from the game?

Its same with discord and this 

we got a chat ingame...use it 

we got a trade channel ingame ....use it 

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Perhaps CC would be interested in replacing the market section of the forums with a link to warlanders market site? 

 

If if it were possible to verify forum accounts to the market site it would at least be equivalent to the forums as far as security goes. There are many names I would have no fear of anything short of a smooth transaction and many I don’t know their ign, only forums. 

 

+1 to it being accessible / useable in game somehow. Would love that more than dealing with opening a browser. 

 

Trade channel is nice, but only for quick sale items. Many items, bulks, high value things like drake / scale, etc are not easily sold on a whoever happens to see this in chat basis, and may take a couple days ore more to reach a deal with a buyer. 

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Why bother with this at all?  During my time playing, 80 percent of my sales came from In game, the other few are ones that I actively seeked out ( looked and read the forums to find ) and made.

 

Most folks that buy or sell, new players, will ask In Game, not some 3rd party site that has no connection to wurm. So they post on both forums make it even messier, so one auciton gets 2 buyouts on both forums, then wtf are they gonna do?  Thats like posting an auction on Ebay and cragslist ( lol sorry ) and 2 folks saying 'buyout for 4g ) ok, who gets it? Then the person gets a F'ed up reputation of being a double dealer.  

 

If you're looking for a way to improve the buy / sell / auctions sections on the forums, then how bout first cleaning up all the Closed auctions that are done,

Make it Mandatory that aucitons have timers, Add a button for the original poster that says 'Close' and it closes and locks the post.

 

Reputation - hell most of the folks that play know the names to look for and the names to Not look for, again, no real way to do that, even with a down vote / up vote system that could easily be abused by spoofing ip's and fake email addys.  Again with No connection to wurm, there is no Real way to verify user names, and if it Is connected to wurm again why do you work more towards improving or even changing the existing forums.

 

Security, not even gonna go there, but no way in hell do i register for 3rd party sites connected or not connected to wurm for the purpose of wurm activites ( PvP forums ring a bell to anyone? ) so yeah, good luck with that.

 

Support.  NO support at all means you risk being screwed over.  At least with the Official Forums that isn't a risk for players.

 

So to recap.

 

1. Clean up the current ( delete or archive into a seperate section on the forums ) Closed sales.  Sales posts over 30 days, auto close and archive.

2. Clean up the current ect ect Auction Section.

3. Possible add to the profile of the poster 'Sales Reputation' link it to upvote / downvote ( again have to keep and eye on that for abuse ) but easier to monitor by the player themselves, after all it is OUR responsibility for our own reputation, not someone else.

4. Security, sorry, but personally, I will Never register for another site that is connected to Wurm activites ( playing ) and not be supported by the Wurm Staff officially.

 

Anyways, good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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