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The Wurm Economy Problem

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Remove traders, end account sharing / trading, lower the cost of premium. 

 

Lower the cost of silvers in the store to reflect the decrease in costs of premium. 

 

Do so in a manner that makes it revenue neutral for CC.

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2 minutes ago, Xor said:

Remove traders, end account sharing / trading, lower the cost of premium. 

 

Lower the cost of silvers in the store to reflect the decrease in costs of premium. 

 

Do so in a manner that makes it revenue neutral for CC.

 

I agree with removing traders.

 

I don't see the need to end account sharing or trading.

 

I think silver sales, every so often, is a better idea.  Like maybe Xmas or Summertime a short discount on silver, just to inject some more into the economy.

 

CCP does this with their plex in eve online, to control the value of purchasing game time.

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Just now, Ascorbic said:

 

I agree with removing traders.

 

I don't see the need to end account sharing or trading.

 

I think silver sales, every so often, is a better idea.  Like maybe Xmas or Summertime a short discount on silver, just to inject some more into the economy.

 

CCP does this with their plex in eve online, to control the value of purchasing game time.

Account sales and sharing is exactly why there is such a steep curve for new players entering the markets, as well as PVP. 

 

I think everyone can agree that the game is top heavy on accounts, hell look at the forums WTS threads there are several crafters for sale that aren’t selling. A few years ago they’d never sit long. 

 

Kingdoms literally share high powered accounts among players online to defend when needed. 

 

Im gonna ride this game out until it dies or I stop enjoying it, whether they allow sales / sharing or not. . But it’s definitely part of the problem. 

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I still absolutely hate Wagoneers and Mail, but I doubt anyone else does.

 

Having to go somewhere would deter someone from buying things across map at BIG BOBS WHOLESALE PRODUCTS

 

Over paying 5c more at Jim's Corner Store 5 minutes away

 

For xanadu being such a large server (using xanadu as an example) it sure seems easy to send things to someone without mounting a horse.

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37 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

I still absolutely hate Wagoneers and Mail, but I doubt anyone else does.

 

Having to go somewhere would deter someone from buying things across map at BIG BOBS WHOLESALE PRODUCTS

 

Over paying 5c more at Jim's Corner Store 5 minutes away

 

For xanadu being such a large server (using xanadu as an example) it sure seems easy to send things to someone without mounting a horse.

 

I know there are many people that wish to play in many different ways.  If you do not want to buy from someone that isn't local, then don't.  But that should not affect someone that wishes to get everything in the mail and never leave their deed.  To each their own.  I do not think it will do anything to help anyone's market by making it where you cannot mail things.

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I think this problem has multiple facets to it and not one thing will fix it.

just more new players wont fix it forever, but letting the casts die off and items get destroyed means the high end accounts can keep selling for a bit but the customers cant afford to keep paying it and the new players or mid level players will leave.

 

i think people need to answer the question first whether they want a better market for a better in game market or a better market to make real money, because its not the same thing. 

 

I would love the developers to take a better look at eve online. their market stability is impressive, i played that game for 10 years and they have their sinks and fountains in order.

you can buy In game currency through buying a time card and you can trade a time card in game with other players for in game money. you cant just buy in game currency from the company itself. this means the value of their in game currency is linked to what people would want to pay in game currency for a months subscription. the actual subscription price influences this of course. and CCP can push a price corrections through price adjustments. inflation in game

buying and selling items and accounts and selling in game currency for real money is forbidden.

there is NPC fountains,

death destroys a random amount of your items, don't matter if its PVP or PVE.

 

I would be in favor for all these chances.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Xor said:

Remove traders, end account sharing / trading, lower the cost of premium. 

 

Lower the cost of silvers in the store to reflect the decrease in costs of premium. 

 

Do so in a manner that makes it revenue neutral for CC.

 

As for traders there are fewer and fewer each year and don't effect the server like they use to .

Now for cheaper silver , that still is not the answer for you have just made full circle and sent the money back to the high end crafters.

 

You see there is no easy button for a fix , tolls ware out so do weapons and enchants , nothing last for ever so having them decay faster makes no difference also..

It still comes down to accounts being sold or shared , wen one high end crafter stops playing for awhile or for good someone else see's that opening to lvl there skills to fill the gap that's how things work ...

 

You need to remember even high end players get burned out and take long brakes I have seen it here..

But in all it comes down to the player if they enjoy the game they will stay and play , you just need that carrot in front of them...B)

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41 minutes ago, Damascus said:

 

As for traders there are fewer and fewer each year and don't effect the server like they use to .

They still take a portion, however small or large of the coins and put them back in circulation. That’s a negative, not a positive. 

 

41 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Now for cheaper silver , that still is not the answer for you have just made full circle and sent the money back to the high end crafters.

Cheaper silver = smaller price to play. I also think all of the things I’ve suggested should be done at once. 

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Damascus said:

It still comes down to accounts being sold or shared , wen one high end crafter stops playing for awhile or for good someone else see's that opening to lvl there skills to fill the gap that's how things work ...

 

You need to remember even high end players get burned out and take long brakes I have seen it here..

A lot of those burned out players sell their accounts so that high end account is still in the game. The gap to be filled you mentioned doesn’t really exist because of the oversaturation of Top end accounts always at play. 

 

That isnt even mentioning the high end accounts being shared amongst multiple people at various times. 

 

 

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As a trader owner....when they instituted foraging etc for coins is when the coins in my traders went south.  Yes you can still get some from them just now what they used to pay.  Now those coins are given out in the other methods.  So they didn't stop giving out coins to people, they just changed how they are given out.  For those that thought the traders were what was ruining the game, now you have a new demon to crucify.  (But I don't think you will have as much support getting it stopped now.)   What does this say?  This says that the amount of coins recirculating throughout the game wasn't the problem.  They were not killing the game.  It was looked at and it was decided to give them out in a different way so people would not need to purchase anything in order to get the coins.

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People are looking top to bottom to make the economy work. I don't think that's the primary problem.

Biggest problem is that mid-tier guys (the level 70, 80, and even to some degree, 90 skilled) guys can't really do jack. Or what they do is definitely not worth their time.


A 70 skilled crafter can make a 70QL item, in say, an hour. But that item would sell for 5c...if he could find a buyer. He's better off grinding masonry to 30 and making bricks. The bricks even make more money/action and more money/hour. It's a total disgrace.

 

Murdering of local markets with essentially free mailing was a huge mistake. Why get your tools imped by your neighbor when someone on another server (like me!) with super high skills can do it cheaper and faster?

The constant recycling of high skilled accounts (and account sharing) just makes this problem worse.

Limited skill counts and specialties could also have prevented the top-heavy skill population, but that ship sailed long, long ago.

In short, we need to give mid-tier crafters something valuable to add and cut the bloat out at the top of the population.

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Who really cares what happens in the markets...

 

Cheap prices are great for new players who want to use stuff vs. make stuff.  Never been a better time to be a new player and get what you need. Balance will be found.

 

I know I have a renewed focus these days on meeting my skill objectives and working on my deeds, which is as it should be. If I make a few sales, great, if not, who really cares. 

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Old link now removed.

Edited by Muse

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https://jenn001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/paying.html

 

closing in on 2400 prem accounts

 

no player base, no economy, and yes having 3x the subs makes an economy happen

 

its not about how much stuff is worth, its how much demand there is for stuff, the value of goods is only dictated by supply and demand, but the moving of goods is dictated by how large the population is

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6 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

its not about how much stuff is worth, its how much demand there is for stuff, the value of goods is only dictated by supply and demand, but the moving of goods is dictated by how large the population is

 

I've said it in every other "economy" thread and I'll say it in this one.   If Wurm had an X% higher population, you'd still have 100 sellers to 1 buyer.  

 

New island?  Some implementation that magically brings back 1,000 or more additional players?  Sure, there will be an increase in quantity of things (primarily bulk) being bought, but guess what?  There will also be a spike in production (and sale) of said bulk.

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Every time someone suggest things like faster decay or item breakage, I cringe. That'd mean I'd have more "chores", and less fun. :(

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3 hours ago, GoldFever said:

Cheap prices are great for new players who want to use stuff vs. make stuff.  Never been a better time to be a new player and get what you need. Balance will be found.

 

The reward for grinding is absolutely terrible. You want to grind weaponsmithing? To get anything useful, be prepared to grind 300-500 hours.

Or you can just pay someone every couple weeks or month (depending on how much you fight) to top off your weapon for 50-60c. It's awful and really looking at it from an objective view, it sucks to do any imping or crafting on your own. It's just so, so much cheaper to buy it.

That ruins a huge chunk of "content" (grinding) and most of the satisfaction of getting the skill (actually feeling needed).

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6 minutes ago, Hailene said:

Or you can just pay someone every couple weeks or month (depending on how much you fight) to top off your weapon for 50-60c

 

Yeah, and by the time I get to 90+ WS, it'll be 10-20c.  

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Random items need to get trashed on death/too much use. Happens on Albion, works well. 

Edited by Mclavin

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1 hour ago, Hailene said:

 

The reward for grinding is absolutely terrible. You want to grind weaponsmithing? To get anything useful, be prepared to grind 300-500 hours.

Or you can just pay someone every couple weeks or month (depending on how much you fight) to top off your weapon for 50-60c. It's awful and really looking at it from an objective view, it sucks to do any imping or crafting on your own. It's just so, so much cheaper to buy it.

That ruins a huge chunk of "content" (grinding) and most of the satisfaction of getting the skill (actually feeling needed).

 

Wait! I thought getting the skills was its own reward :).  Here I've been doing it wrong all these years I guess.  Oh well. To late to change now.  Somehow I still manage to feel useful.

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32 minutes ago, GoldFever said:

 

Wait! I thought getting the skills was its own reward :).  Here I've been doing it wrong all these years I guess.  Oh well. To late to change now.  Somehow I still manage to feel useful.

 

I'm happy to grind up random skills. I like the feeling.

Then again I like doing a lot of things I wouldn't want to impose on others. Just because something works for me, doesn't mean it's good for the majority.

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" DEV2:If you're selling stuff in wurm to make bank, you're going about things the wrong way "

 

I used to not care about market too much. But now I want to pvp and progress there, and I need items like drake/dragon armour, or tomes, which cost ridiculous money (accounts seeling cheaper than these today) and  am not willing, or able, for that matter, pay hundreds of euros for those items. So suddenly I care to earn money here, which seems impossible and makes this game too much "pay to win" for me.

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I had a thought what about skill based weapon or tool usage so if you had 20 skill you could only use a say up to 30 ql item in that skills domain ...  That would make the guy next door or down the road as a viable supplier of lower ql items or you could imp them yourself and increase your skill viably.. Heh??

 

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The crux of the matter is that everything that would resolve an economic issue would create a new QoL issue; and wurm's player base is just too low to deal with QoL issues.

 

The phrase "death spiral" springs to mind.

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18 hours ago, Holar said:

 

I didn’t do it purposely for the money but I made enough to transfer cash out into my bank account. Free money? Naawww I’m gunna let it sit in a game where a market could crash and not make anything off of my overall investment. I know people who used it to pay for their electric bill lol. Only reason I see to play Freedom is for social reasons and to play the Wurm market.. what’s the first thing people do when they get a rare item on Freedom? “Pc rare butt cheeks?” 

That's the problem though-"An investment". It's a game or a hobby. People are usually selling things like rares to get small amounts to pay for their deeds or subscription, not to cash out.

 

Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the devs just roll their eyes at these "more newbs/decay=more money" threads, but it looks terrible, 

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Wurm can't have an economy problem without an economy.

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