Pvp recruiters / entrepreneurs

[Mclavin 3,704]

3 hours ago, gorgian said:

This is what i never understood about you pvpers. you are crying you want players, and even before trying out new players through other option your already killing it.  

I'm not crying I want ANY players - I'm crying to get the game out to people who enjoy pvp - and not to be scared of coming over to pvp. I don't want you to come over take a crown and fk my kingdom over?

You try to say you know what you're talking about, you don't. Why should WE take a risk to get somebody a personal reward? Are you gonna share it with me?
Anybody looking to come pvp will come pvp without any expectations of a crown, over time there will be trust grown and eventually that can happen. But no, not the way you say. 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

Ok lets assume for a moment we want to make money the way you are suggesting. What would this reward for risk be? How much will we charge this person for this service?

 

1s? We get that out of a flag sale.

5s? The price of low end hota statue.

10s? The price of a wagon.

20s? The price of one of our rare sail boats.

35s? The price of a Dragon Hota Statue.

 

It takes the theft/craft of a single item for them to run out with more than they paid. Before leaving, anyone smart enough would make at least one wagon, 10 flags, 10 banners, 10 tall banners and 5 tents. Thats about 60-70 silver worth of kingdom funds they are walking out with, and they didnt even have to steal a thing. If they make 3 wagons instead? Do the math.

 

What if they decide to steal one of our supreme boats? Or grab a couple of hotas left over on the token after a few hota wins? Or decide to clean out the moon metal? Or lets not go that far... what if they rob personal items from a members house? Take a drake set?

 

How much should we charge to let someone we KNOW wont stay in the pmk to help them do their personal goals? 100s? 150s? Not worth it. Besides, who will pay 100s for that? The community itself would roast us for taking advantage of people, even if we manage to find someone to pay it.

 

Most likely people would pay something around the realm of 20s. Thats two wagon sales. And by selling the wagons we dont have to risk someone stabbing us in the back and running out with our stuff.

 

I rather my peers stick to recruiting people who actually want to pvp. Your idea is dumb.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Angelklaine

[gorgian 181]

3 hours ago, Prophetears said:

 

It's very unlikely if you come over for a personal goal you will stick around, we did it for many many many people before and almost none of them stuck around longer than necessary, but these people weren't given access to much.

 

And people don't realize how much access you can get. In TC, our like actual management, if i went rogue tomorrow i could leave with over 40kgs in drake hide, upwards of 15 drake sets, 7 or 8 scale sets, several kgs of scale, and hundreds upon hundreds of moonmetal and rift materials. If you have a good reputation, but you have no intention of ever sticking around on a PvP server, and we take a risk and you just are in it for the money and you stay for the long haul, you could very easily just steal everything after a couple months and get your moneys worth and who would care? This goes for pretty much every kingdom.

 

We do weed out the good and the bad, but in my personal experience, we've been right 100% of the time, and if people don't have a vested interest in being with us, the odds of them ###### us over goes up 10 fold. It's not a risk many people would take as a recruitment offer, a quick convert, title, kick, is another thing. Nobody is ever going to give anyone that isn't 100% trustworthy the crown of their kingdom though, again using TC right now as a kingdom of over 100 players, 7 people have access to the current standing kings account, and maybe 11 or 12 would be potential candidates for the next slot.

 

@Sjarn

 

HOTS is the only template kingdom on Chaos. You can become king if one is not present. It is pure RNG, there are no deciding factors, you will either land the sub like 1% chance to get your name on the list one day (it changes every restart and every 24hrs), or you won't. If there is another king, you and a few players can challenge him for his spot. If he has ever used the mechanics before though, it will be 3months or more before you can actually, truthfully, contest his title.

Just with your very first opening line, i can see your vote it to split chaos from freedom. Whats the point of having them linked if your not going to stick around either right? I'm not going to sit here and nit pick everything you say. It was just an option to get player over to pvp side, but clearly you cont want player there long or short term.

[gorgian 181]

1 hour ago, Mclavin said:

I'm not crying I want ANY players - I'm crying to get the game out to people who enjoy pvp - and not to be scared of coming over to pvp. I don't want you to come over take a crown and fk my kingdom over?

You try to say you know what you're talking about, you don't. Why should WE take a risk to get somebody a personal reward? Are you gonna share it with me?
Anybody looking to come pvp will come pvp without any expectations of a crown, over time there will be trust grown and eventually that can happen. But no, not the way you say. 

I enjoy pvp, but only if there is something in it for me just like everyone whos over there they my simply enjoy it. This whole point of this thread was to open up more options to get player over. blah fest. it's simple you either like the idea and run with it or you dont. moving on..

[gorgian 181]

10 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Ok lets assume for a moment we want to make money the way you are suggesting. What would this reward for risk be? How much will we charge this person for this service?

 

1s? We get that out of a flag sale.

5s? The price of low end hota statue.

10s? The price of a wagon.

20s? The price of one of our rare sail boats.

35s? The price of a Dragon Hota Statue.

 

It takes the theft/craft of a single item for them to run out with more than they paid. Before leaving, anyone smart enough would make at least one wagon, 10 flags, 10 banners, 10 tall banners and 5 tents. Thats about 60-70 silver worth of kingdom funds they are walking out with, and they didnt even have to steal a thing. If they make 3 wagons instead? Do the math.

 

What if they decide to steal one of our supreme boats? Or grab a couple of hotas left over on the token after a few hota wins? Or decide to clean out the moon metal? Or lets not go that far... what if they rob personal items from a members house? Take a drake set?

 

How much should we charge to let someone we KNOW wont stay in the pmk to help them do their personal goals? 100s? 150s? Not worth it. Besides, who will pay 100s for that? The community itself would roast us for taking advantage of people, even if we manage to find someone to pay it.

 

Most likely people would pay something around the realm of 20s. Thats two wagon sales. And by selling the wagons we dont have to risk someone stabbing us in the back and running out with our stuff.

 

I rather my peers stick to recruiting people who actually want to pvp. Your idea is dumb.

 

Does it have to be about money? And here i though you wanted more option to get player over to try out pvp. i gave you an other option take it or leave it.. Not a hard choose... Up to you guys if you want to run with it or not.

 

And no need for the flaming either. "Your idea is dumb" sorry but i can flame too it's easy.

Too bad your narrow mind can't see the bigger picture.

 

moving on..

[gorgian 181]

2 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

I've got in touch with someone, who provided me a place to stay. Then I lived there for some time, trying all the time to achieve some of my goals. I've changed my temporary homes a few times also. (i didn't get all of my goals done ona single adventure. I was doing PvP related goals since... oh my gods, so long).  And if one thinks that fighting over everything is a must, is wrong. 
 

My point right there, an option. whether it's a friend,or kingdom(recruiting) or a random person(entrepreneurs).

 

Nice long story.

[Mclavin 3,704]

feel free to make an app so i can decline

[Alexgopen 2,376]

2 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

35s? The price of a Dragon Hota Statue.

 

lmao what

 

freedom sounds like an interesting place

[Prophetears 244]

@gorgian

 

You have a -very bad- habit of putting words in peoples mouths so i'm just gonna stop this conversation here.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Prophetears

[Mordraug 2,542]

"Stupid PvE players afraid to lose stuff come over and risk it!  It's PvP, it's constant risk, deal with it..... by the way it's very safe you barely die... but fyi we live in constant paranoia, we're a close tight-knit community where trust is predominant and we trust no one... and we can't risk letting PvE players in because we may end up losing stuff... by the way we DON'T rely on PvE for income, hell Wurm would do fine without it.... if said Freedomer decides to not stay he could leave with tons of kingdom funds by just making a few flags and wagons on his way out... devs really need to do something to attract more people to PvE... why DON'T more PvE people PvP.... NO!  We don't need a PvE's opinion on why more PvE people don't PvP!"

 

Good.. 

grief... 

 

 

[MrGARY 12,421]

7 hours ago, Sjarn said:

Really?  Did that change with the skill transfer?  Because the only posts I could find suggested that they didn't transfer between Epic and Freedom/Chaos - but they were from 2014.

 

Goals (achievements) have always been tied to the account, not cluster

[gorgian 181]

1 hour ago, Prophetears said:

@gorgian

 

You have a -very bad- habit of putting words in peoples mouths so i'm just gonna stop this conversation here.

I'm sorry you feel like this, But, if you follow along it's no different from where I'm sitting. Just a though before you judge too harshly.

 

[gorgian 181]

1 hour ago, Mordraug said:

"Stupid PvE players afraid to lose stuff come over and risk it!  It's PvP, it's constant risk, deal with it..... by the way it's very safe you barely die... but fyi we live in constant paranoia, we're a close tight-knit community where trust is predominant and we trust no one... and we can't risk letting PvE players in because we may end up losing stuff... by the way we DON'T rely on PvE for income, hell Wurm would do fine without it.... if said Freedomer decides to not stay he could leave with tons of kingdom funds by just making a few flags and wagons on his way out... devs really need to do something to attract more people to PvE... why DON'T more PvE people PvP.... NO!  We don't need a PvE's opinion on why more PvE people don't PvP!"

 

Good.. 

grief... 

 

 

Yep good grief is right.  Stop being so paranoid.  ps. pvers dont rely on pvp income. i'll leave it at that.

[MrGARY 12,421]

will you invite random people to your deed on pve

 

if you dont want to invite random people that may not even be there for the sake of being part of your village on pve, is that paranoia?

[Gladiator 968]

 

35 minutes ago, gorgian said:

Yep good grief is right.  Stop being so paranoid.  ps. pvers dont rely on pvp income. i'll leave it at that.

They may not rely on it, but if they were allowed to, they would try it. Ok let me ask you this, how much do you pay monthly for the game? And i mean apart from buying items or useless AOSP drakesets and whatever else freedomers buy.  You probably have 2-3 premium accounts and 1-2 deeds, thats 25-40 silver  no? Let me tell you that a lot more is spent on taking care of a kingdom, a loooot more mate. A lot more deeds, deeds have the possibility of being attacked, you will spend money on res stones etc etc. That is why somebody coming into a kingdom with only GREED in mind is so devastating. He makes 50 flags and for the next 2 weeks we cannot sell any flags cause the bastard is selling them half price on trade chat. What does he gain? idk like 50s? What do we lose? Maybe a deed or two. And from what i've seen so far the mentality of a player really matters when they ask you to welcome them, it makes the difference between staying on freedom and ocasionally building his pretty canopy beds in your capital and actually doing fun things with the kingdom. Your mentality is the former

[gorgian 181]

28 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

will you invite random people to your deed on pve

 

if you dont want to invite random people that may not even be there for the sake of being part of your village on pve, is that paranoia?

Not sure is it? there's always the kick option. At least you gave that person or persons a chance.  But i'm glad you pointed this out. Things work both ways on pvp and pve. One has more risk then the other, but that's all players choosing what they want. 

[MrGARY 12,421]

6 minutes ago, gorgian said:

Not sure is it? there's always the kick option. At least you gave that person or persons a chance.  But i'm glad you pointed this out. Things work both ways on pvp and pve. One has more risk then the other, but that's all players choosing what they want. 

 

Ok now imagine giving that person a chance means they had the ability to decide to rob you of all your things, kill the horses you spent months breeding, kill all your pets, destroy anything you've ever held dearly in your wurm life

 

That's what it could be like inviting someone to your pmk/deed that isn't really invested into becoming part of it, or even if they are.  Where pve has mechanics to block, pvp has weapons to handle it.  However by that point the damage is already done.  One person killing your kingdom's stock of horses overnight at a dead time can pretty much cripple an entire kingdom from being able to pvp

 

This is why inviting randoms can be troublesome.  If you or someone else wants to take this as being anti pve players or anti new players or whatever else it can be spinned off as, enjoy

[gorgian 181]

6 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

 

They may not rely on it, but if they were allowed to, they would try it. Ok let me ask you this, how much do you pay monthly for the game? And i mean apart from buying items or useless AOSP drakesets and whatever else freedomers buy.  You probably have 2-3 premium accounts and 1-2 deeds, thats 25-40 silver  no? Let me tell you that a lot more is spent on taking care of a kingdom, a loooot more mate. A lot more deeds, deeds have the possibility of being attacked, you will spend money on res stones etc etc. That is why somebody coming into a kingdom with only GREED in mind is so devastating. He makes 50 flags and for the next 2 weeks we cannot sell any flags cause the bastard is selling them half price on trade chat. What does he gain? idk like 50s? What do we lose? Maybe a deed or two. And from what i've seen so far the mentality of a player really matters when they ask you to welcome them, it makes the difference between staying on freedom and ocasionally building his pretty canopy beds in your capital and actually doing fun things with the kingdom. Your mentality is the former

This thread was only meant as an option to get players over to try pvp. What happens after that is really up to players.

[gorgian 181]

17 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

Ok now imagine giving that person a chance means they had the ability to decide to rob you of all your things, kill the horses you spent months breeding, kill all your pets, destroy anything you've ever held dearly in your wurm life

 

That's what it could be like inviting someone to your pmk/deed that isn't really invested into becoming part of it, or even if they are.  Where pve has mechanics to block, pvp has weapons to handle it.  However by that point the damage is already done.  One person killing your kingdom's stock of horses overnight at a dead time can pretty much cripple an entire kingdom from being able to pvp

 

This is why inviting randoms can be troublesome.  If you or someone else wants to take this as being anti pve players or anti new players or whatever else it can be spinned off as, enjoy

Yes i know this. now imagine this no new blood is brought to pvp side... oh wait i dont have to imagine. i can just look. 

 

I guess a lot on pvp side just dont know how to bring in randoms. lots of game do it. they have a screening process, trill process, and so on. guess wurm pvp at this rate will just stagnate. till some other mmo comes alone and more leave. but i could be wrong. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by gorgian

[Alkhadias 548]

Another 2 cents from me.

How I'd try to achieve becoming a king goal.

 

1. I'd go over pvp servers and there or on forum I'd do a research for most reputable and as much as can be, trusted, people and kingdoms with most valuable to me valors.

 

2. I'd contact this kingdom and right persons, and explain myself at the very first. That i need or want this and that, but I don't plan to stay longer. Being clear with people is a firt step in being fair to them.

 

3. Of course, I'd offer my help in deed/ kingdom during my stay there. If I don't want to do pvp i can always offer my best freedom experience. Making, repairing stuff, hauling stuff. If there's such a need always will try to defend deed, repair walls or even haul stuff for a siege. Whatever is needed. To gain kingdom trust and to show them that I'm not there only to get a crown and leave without a word.

 

4. I'd try to explain my reputation among many other trusted wurmians. I think and i want to believe, that at this point, I'm fine. So I think, that my reputation is pretty decent in Wurm. However i gained it, by many years of playing and being fair. If someone didn't... well, now he reaps what he sow...

 

5. If people responsible for kingdom would decide that I might be worthy of handing over a crown for a while, I'd hand over other valuable stuff, my drakes, my scale or anything else, that's at least x1.5- x2 value of a pmk declaration. To exchange it back while later. But that's value vs value, and to the owners, pmk value means much more than declaration price, so still i can't expect, that anyone would accept that. So offering trust vs trust, perhaps I'd propose to give an access to my account and let them do the rest. If someone can't trust others, can't also expect to be trusted by them. If I'd have to sit there for a month or longer, gaining their trust, that's also what I would do.

 

6. If that wouldn't be enough, I'd just found my own pmk. Because i can never expect that leaders of pmk will just give me a crown, just because they see me on forum. That's a stupid thinking.

[Alexgopen 2,376]

21 minutes ago, Alkhadias said:

I'd hand over other valuable stuff, my drakes, my scale or anything else, that's at least x1.5- x2 value of a pmk declaration

 

it's not just the PMK declaration they risk by giving you the crown.

 

its the entire kingdom.

 

all their deeds, all their livestock, all their items, all their current past efforts on the server.  gone.  if you choose to screw them over

 

even if they were to go and buy a new pmk form, they still wouldnt have their old land back, because you would currently control it.  all of the deeds that they once worked hard to build, they would have to raid into disband and then destroy all of the houses to even be able to redeed. 

 

do you have any idea how much work this is? or how much risk is involved in giving over the kingdom to some new guy from freedom?

[Prophetears 244]

4 hours ago, Mordraug said:

"Stupid PvE players afraid to lose stuff come over and risk it!  It's PvP, it's constant risk, deal with it..... by the way it's very safe you barely die... but fyi we live in constant paranoia, we're a close tight-knit community where trust is predominant and we trust no one... and we can't risk letting PvE players in because we may end up losing stuff... by the way we DON'T rely on PvE for income, hell Wurm would do fine without it.... if said Freedomer decides to not stay he could leave with tons of kingdom funds by just making a few flags and wagons on his way out... devs really need to do something to attract more people to PvE... why DON'T more PvE people PvP.... NO!  We don't need a PvE's opinion on why more PvE people don't PvP!"

 

Good.. 

grief... 

 

 

 

Almost none of this is ever said by PvPers, and if it is, you are taking it out of context, just like usual. Prime example of the type of person we PvPers always talk about folks.

 

 

@AlkhadiasYoud basically have to found your own for that one. Getting a crown is basically akin to owning multiple alliances worth of goods on freedom, and all of their deeds in a PMK.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Prophetears

[Gladiator 968]

1 hour ago, gorgian said:

I guess a lot on pvp side just dont know how to bring in randoms. lots of game do it. they have a screening process, trill process, and so on. guess wurm pvp at this rate will just stagnate. till some other mmo comes alone and more leave. but i could be wrong. 

You asked us why we don't bring in randoms for their personal goals aka personal gain/profit in exchange for money. We explained to you why. The risk severely outmatches the rewards. You're too stubborn to understand things = another reason you won't be welcome in PMKs, expecially for a goal

Edited April 27, 2018 by Gladiator

[Oblivionnreaver 5,175]

So what's the point of this thread, you tell people they should give out the crown to anyone that asks nicely, they say no and you argue with them about why they're wrong?

You could get the hots crown and ###### that for personal goals if you'd like, could even have that entrepreneur mindset and sell off crown/kingdom titles with it. Nobody's going to risk their entire kingdom because you sound like a trustworthy guy.

[Alkhadias 548]

30 minutes ago, Alexgopen said:

 

it's not just the PMK declaration they risk by giving you the crown.

 

its the entire kingdom.

 

all their deeds, all their livestock, all their items, all their current past efforts on the server.  gone.  if you choose to screw them over

 

even if they were to go and buy a new pmk form, they still wouldnt have their old land back, because you would currently control it.  all of the deeds that they once worked hard to build, they would have to raid into disband and then destroy all of the houses to even be able to redeed. 

 

do you have any idea how much work this is? or how much risk is involved in giving over the kingdom to some new guy from freedom?

I've only said what I'd do. And I know what consequences are, that's why i can't expect that anybody would agree. That's also I dont complain, and in any case I'd just found own pmk, and then probably gave it out to a right person or to my alliance, that would be interested in taking care of it.