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Yiraia

Do you consider wurm cheap?

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So... how do people from countries with a lower income pay their other MMO subs then?

Do these MMOs do something different?

Maybe like Steam, price per region?

I mean, if it came to that considering Wurm has a RMT background, we would have to segregate the community into region based Servers with IP bans, so that the silver per RL currency obtained value does not clash.

I guess anyone can see this would be bad, the community is small enough as is. :/

 

And if you lower the sub and silver pricing over all for everybody - sure makes it more accessible to the lower income people but also gives the ones with plenty of money even more power then, so thats no good either.

 

I mean, whatever your financial status is and whatever the reason for that may be - the game has to draw a line somewhere so that it can continue to operate, feed the devs and where the experience for the money paid feels right.

Otherwise the lights go dark and everyone is stuck with WU.

 

I still think that about 10 EUR a month for the very basic Wurm experience is fine (8 EUR for prem, 1-2s for a deed) - if the player decides they need more land claimed or run multiple characters then thats up to them.

This is a MMO, just because you CAN play multiple characters at once because its a slow paced game does not mean you have to, join a alliance and make friends and help each other out with Priesty things or whatever.

And if you do not want to do that for whatever reason, well thats up to you.

The only "fix" I could see being made here is to make Priest play more fun and worthwhile so they are not held as Spell slaves, that way more real groups would form with them just as in other MMOs where you find a tank and a healer to do a dungeon or whatever advanced content.

But as is... Priests are held as alt characters for convinience; I think the amount of people who truely enjoys playing a Priest is really low because of the given limitations and that is why people feel they have to run a second sub for a priest to get their spell related "content". Thats the only thing I see that could be changed, but its not a small task to overhaul Priests so that it would work out I fear. :(

 

Wurm is just way to different of a game to compare it with games like WoW or whatever, where it is a lot easier to run any class without any major drawbacks... neither do you have any sort of deed with a upkeep tied to it that you can change in size as you please (and thus increase the upkeep) and so on...

 

In the end as said before, it is up to the player if it is worth it to them or not.

But comparing with other games is really hard based on the difference in content offered and how it all is being handeled.

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Heh, people talking about wurm being an expensive hobby...I used to fly light airplanes for fun, that runs more per hour than wurm costs per year.  You can spend 100 euros per month if you want, but that's entirely personal choice, as is choosing not to spend your hard-earned shekels on wurm if €10/month is too much for you - there are other options if you have time but no cash at all.

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Comparing the cost to other hobbies is irrelevant. What WO needs to compete with isn't people going to the cinema or playing basketball in their backyard (really? I mean... REALLY?) but other MMOs as that is where potential players go.

 

Sure, it is a vicious circle - less players means less possibilities to lower the sub and keep the servers running. Comparably high subscription on the other hand (Camelot Unchained will most likely launch with a sub of 10$ and will be brand new, not 10 years old) means you loose more players than you gain, which in turn means at some point critical mass cannot be reached anymore... I have no idea where the critical mass is for WO, but numbers are sure only going one way: down.

 

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I think Wurm is a good price.  But I do wish that they would do sales on silver every once and a while, to pump up spending and add more currency to the economy every once and a while.  

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7 minutes ago, Ascorbic said:

I think Wurm is a good price.  But I do wish that they would do sales on silver every once and a while, to pump up spending and add more currency to the economy every once and a while.  

I would like that as well, to be able to directly contribute to the game instead of buying from a 3rd party, because it is much cheaper.

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10 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I can buy a bag of cheetos for a dollar, so it must mean that all single player games on Steam are expensive.

... I can't tell if you are agreeing with me

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All I did was read the title and I decided I had to add my post to the pot as well. For me, Wurm is expensive. Why? I'm a rares addict and spend hundreds of euros on it. That's my choice, I am making it expensive for myself. 

 

Now for premium time. For me, Wurm is expensive. Why? 8 Euros a month isn't really that much, I admit, but now take the average player with one main and multiple alts. Take someone who plays on PvE and PvP. Take someone who has priests (which is basically everyone who's been playing for a while). It adds up REALLY quickly. Now, you can make the money in-game and buy it with in-game currency but what nobody told you is how difficult these days it is to make money in-game unless you have like EVERYTHING to sell - and even then, it takes a lot of time and it can really ruin the game. 

 

So, for my premium, if I don't want to spend all the time trading, I need to buy every 2 months, 16 Euros per character. That's 16 for my main, 16 for my Fo priest, 16 for my Vyn priest and 16 for my Epic character - every two months. And honestly, there's people playing with as much as 13 characters (got a friend who's that crazy) that are all premium at the same time.

 

In my opinion what's missing is a system that rewards people who play with multiple characters. The more characters we play with, the more profit CC makes, yet we don't have any way to connect our characters and gain an advantage. 

 

If, however, you only play with one character, No, Wurm is not expensive :) 

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33 minutes ago, Yldrania said:

If, however, you only play with one character, No, Wurm is not expensive :) 

Hey I play with one chr., i dont find it cheap either :)  Okay, sometimes two chr.'s. lol

 

5 hours ago, Milkdrop said:

And if you lower the sub and silver pricing over all for everybody - sure makes it more accessible to the lower income people but also gives the ones with plenty of money even more power then, so thats no good either.

 

People with money, will always pay for what they want. Just look at some of the games being funded in development. I see people with money dropping hundreds even thousands. People with money will always have the "power" (P2W) on there side. Lowing sub will just open the game up to more players is all.

 

54 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

... I can't tell if you are agreeing with me

I can't tell either. But, If i buy a car for 60k does it mean wurm is expensive?

 

 

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There is no definite answer as to if wurm is cheap as we all have a different perspective on the value of money.  Some people live paycheck to paycheck, others don't.  Some people see a $20 bill as pocket change and others will see more value in it.  People who have spare money will obviously see it as cheap whereas someone living paycheck to paycheck may see it differently.  Wurms playerbase is people from all walks of life.  Teenagers to elderly, given that you will see a wide range of opinion on this question.

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This is a tremendously poor thread - because of the way the question is asked

 

Expensive or cheap depends on (1) the gamers purchasing profile (thrift vs impulsiveness), (2) their financial status and (3) the country of residence -- among other things

 

50 eur a month is close to nothing in first world countries, or its more than a month's wage in quite a few countries. Also please note that the game is developed in Sweden - a country with VERY high wages. A lot of first world countries cannot even rival with their standards. For them, a 2 month prem for a char is about the same as buying once a sandwich from a street vendor - I am not even kidding, I lived in Stockholm for about a year. If Code Club AB would move to a low income country, then all of a sudden the game becomes A LOT cheaper, because the wages (that make up the vast majority of the expenses in a gaming company) would be dramatically reduced.

 

The better question here would be how expensive is Wurm in comparison with other games (similar or not) that offer or not similar enjoyment to the user. And there I have to say that Wurm is incredibly expensive for what it offers. The vast majority of MMO games nowadays are free with paid options. And they make tremendous profits. And they look fantastic. And they are free, totally. and. utterly. free.

 

And your jaw would drop at their update logs......

 

Sure - you can compare Wurm against the average, or even say that Wurm is so much better than so many.....but do you really want to compare Wurm to the average? That already would showcase the lack of expectations to develop a quality game further.

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3 hours ago, Thorakkanath said:

This is a tremendously poor thread - because of the way the question is asked

 

Expensive or cheap depends on (1) the gamers purchasing profile (thrift vs impulsiveness), (2) their financial status and (3) the country of residence -- among other things

 

50 eur a month is close to nothing in first world countries, or its more than a month's wage in quite a few countries. Also please note that the game is developed in Sweden - a country with VERY high wages. A lot of first world countries cannot even rival with their standards. For them, a 2 month prem for a char is about the same as buying once a sandwich from a street vendor - I am not even kidding, I lived in Stockholm for about a year. If Code Club AB would move to a low income country, then all of a sudden the game becomes A LOT cheaper, because the wages (that make up the vast majority of the expenses in a gaming company) would be dramatically reduced.

 

The better question here would be how expensive is Wurm in comparison with other games (similar or not) that offer or not similar enjoyment to the user. And there I have to say that Wurm is incredibly expensive for what it offers. The vast majority of MMO games nowadays are free with paid options. And they make tremendous profits. And they look fantastic. And they are free, totally. and. utterly. free.

 

And your jaw would drop at their update logs......

 

Sure - you can compare Wurm against the average, or even say that Wurm is so much better than so many.....but do you really want to compare Wurm to the average? That already would showcase the lack of expectations to develop a quality game further.

 

This is all true, the bar is set higher than people make it out to be, not just in pricing, but also in terms of technologie and "policies" (Yes, I'm harping on the single character policy again. Though thinking through it, it's not an easy decision either, and will probably stick around, for the better or worse. Just think it sounds kind of bad on paper for a potential approaching player.).

But the problem with "free with paid options" is that it thrives on large player bases. In fact it's only profitable then, or when it's used in questionable ways. (P2W for example). The reason Wurm is "expensive" (I wouldn't call a single 8€/m subscription that on its own, but I made my point about that.)  is because we all stem the cost for a development team distributed over fewer people. And it's so few people that even then the team is comparably small. (I don't know how large it is precisely, but I'll go on a limp and assume that any bigger MMO also has a bigger team.) That also means a smaller update log.

 

My point being that with respect to these circumstances, I think Wurm and CC AB are doing quite well despite the odds (And their tenacity to stick around over the last decade testifies to that.), but that's my layman's perspective from someone who isn't running a business and doesn't have insight into their numbers. We can only hope that they keep it up and the player base increases again, and perhaps then they can lower the price again. I'm still anticipating if and how much the UI update will attract new players.

Edited by Flubb
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10 hours ago, Thorakkanath said:

The better question here would be how expensive is Wurm in comparison with other games (similar or not) that offer or not similar enjoyment to the user. And there I have to say that Wurm is incredibly expensive for what it offers. The vast majority of MMO games nowadays are free with paid options. And they make tremendous profits. And they look fantastic. And they are free, totally. and. utterly. free.

 

And your jaw would drop at their update logs......

This was the main point i was looking for. I didn't expect people to compare wurm to outdoor entertainment or their salaries. I wanted to know if people thought wurm was cheaper than other games... Should have put that in my title.

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I'd say it's inexpensive, sure.

 

I probably wouldn't be into a cheap game. .

 

I've payed far more for minutes of pleasure lol.

Edited by BrandonSF
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21 hours ago, Thorakkanath said:

Also please note that the game is developed in Sweden - a country with VERY high wages. A lot of first world countries cannot even rival with their standards. For them, a 2 month prem for a char is about the same as buying once a sandwich from a street vendor - I am not even kidding, I lived in Stockholm for about a year. If Code Club AB would move to a low income country, then all of a sudden the game becomes A LOT cheaper, because the wages (that make up the vast majority of the expenses in a gaming company) would be dramatically reduced.

 

I'm pretty sure that since Rolf left, there aren't any Swedish developers left.  Certainly not any salaried ones.

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To me wurm is affordable, 26 dollerydoos for 2 months is pretty decent, considering runescape just upped their prices again, wurms still cheaper. 

 

World of Tanks was a bit exy given how little you could reasonably use.

 

I don't think you can really compare wirm character count wise since even though other mmo's allow multiple slots per acvount, you can still only play one at a time  -  so one would still 'need' multiple subs if they wanted to speed things up/multitask.

 

 

$26 is a parmy and cider at the local pub, as others have said how much do you value this service & entertainment?

 

 

Edited by cccdfern

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I usually spend more money drinking beer whilst playing Wurm on a Friday night than I spend money on Wurm through an entire month.
For 8 euros I can get two, maybe three 0.5L cans of beer. I'd rather have a month of premium. Cost is relative - whether Wurm is cheap or not is highly subjective. Minimum wage (we don't actually have a minimum wage) here is practically something around  13-16 euros an hour. I'd be glad to spend 20 euros a month.

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The wages are still payed from the country where the company resides.

 

I pay for annual prem on my main toons and occationally on my other toons, and then I buy 1 gold every other month or so.

I spend around 100 Euro a month and I don't play other games so I don't compare.

For me it is cheap compared to the many hours of joy it gives me.

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I don't consider Wurm expensive for the value received and like Damascus, I too pay with a currency that is totally Loonie (the name of the Canadian One Dollar coin). :P

 

I feel "expensive" is relative.  It can depend on your currency exchange rate or your level of income, or what you want to get out of Wurm.

 

.. but I do have to agree with Damascus that the price of Internet in Canada can be astronomical if your are using a Smart Phone or a Mobile Internet stick. :(

 

Also, until this past December (2017), Canada was one of the last countries in the world to mandate all mobile devices, (phones or sticks) must be sold "unlocked".  Per a CBC investigations report, the big companies were making $37million a year in "unlocking fees".  :angry:

 

For those who are curious, the Cheapest mobile internet in Canada is 2 gigs for $15 a month (BYOD) and $10 a month for each additional gig over 2 gigs, using a mobile internet stick you plug into your laptop, offered by one of our smaller and more customer friendly services. B)

 

A month of Wurm, 6 hours a day, Monday -Friday (when I am Wurming from work between emergency call outs), totals up to well under 2 gigs.

 

I just left of of the big three internet providers, because they walloped me $70 for going over the 2 gigs you get for $45. :angry:  Woof, woof!  Go figure!!

 

BTW for hardwired DSL we get 200 gigs a month for $71 Cdn, and you can get 600 gigs for $81 a month with much higher down and upload speeds, but fiberoptic has just arrived in our neighbourhood and soon the net will be slightly cheaper.

 

But at least in Wurm you do not have to shovel a meter of snow each week to get your Large Cart out of the driveway..... :)

 

Errroooo!

Hughmongus

 

Edited by HughMongus
spelling-grammer

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On 29.4.2018. at 7:14 PM, HughMongus said:

I don't consider Wurm expensive for the value received and like Damascus, I too pay with a currency that is totally Loonie (the name of the Canadian One Dollar coin). :P

 

I feel "expensive" is relative.  It can depend on your currency exchange rate or your level of income, or what you want to get out of Wurm.

 

.. but I do have to agree with Damascus that the price of Internet in Canada can be astronomical if your are using a Smart Phone or a Mobile Internet stick. :(

 

Also, until this past December (2017), Canada was one of the last countries in the world to mandate all mobile devices, (phones or sticks) must be sold "unlocked".  Per a CBC investigations report, the big companies were making $37million a year in "unlocking fees".  :angry:

 

For those who are curious, the Cheapest mobile internet in Canada is 2 gigs for $15 a month (BYOD) and $10 a month for each additional gig over 2 gigs, using a mobile internet stick you plug into your laptop, offered by one of our smaller and more customer friendly services. B)

 

A month of Wurm, 6 hours a day, Monday -Friday (when I am Wurming from work between emergency call outs), totals up to well under 2 gigs.

 

I just left of of the big three internet providers, because they walloped me $70 for going over the 2 gigs you get for $45. :angry:  Woof, woof!  Go figure!!

 

BTW for hardwired DSL we get 200 gigs a month for $71 Cdn, and you can get 600 gigs for $81 a month with much higher down and upload speeds, but fiberoptic has just arrived in our neighbourhood and soon the net will be slightly cheaper.

 

But at least in Wurm you do not have to shovel a meter of snow each week to get your Large Cart out of the driveway..... :)

 

Errroooo!

Hughmongus

 

God damn :o Internet in Serbia is around 15-20 euros per month you get unlimited wired adsl montly acces for that, with relativly decent speed which does the job for Wurm. I don't get it why it's so expensive in Canada  :o

Edited by kochinac

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Compared to other games if you want fully experience wurm, it's certainly expensive. But also comparing to other games it might be as well the cheapest game. Everything depends on how you really play it and what do you enjoy.

 

I'm mostly single toon player. Sometimes I do premium my slavery alt, but only if I have some bulk/ terraforming work, because I truly hate playing and focusing on secondary toons at once. However I also have couple of deeds. Now it's three, soon I'll drop a fourth. At some point when my ingame shop was at best prosperity I even had 7 deeds with prepared plans for few more. 

Actually game costs me like 30e per month. Totally worth it.

 

Btw internet in Canada is terrible I see. Here in Europe i pay like 10-12e per month for adsl 300 gigs and probably i could lower a price to 8-10e. Horrid

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This reply is in comparison to other MMO's, not really addressing the whole is it 'expensive' in general as that is entirely subjective and I cannot assume the financial state of each individual player, etc. Also would like to state I have been, and I think always will be in general a person that is pro-Wurm pro-Staff, etc. So take that for what it is, I've tried to be pretty objective in this review.

 

I have played several MMO's throughout the years. Probably more than I would ever care to admit. From gPotato games or Webzen now (Think Flyff, Rappelz, Allods, etc.), ARC Games (Perfect World International, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter), Blizzard (WoW, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm), Jagex (Runescape), Guild Wars 2, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Elder Scrolls Online, Rift, etc.

 

Even the amount of games listed sounds a bit wild. Anyway, my two cents is that Wurm is more expensive in comparison to subscription based membership games, but cheaper than free-to-play/pay-to-win games. I could go into the comparison to each individual game on this, but I think that would be overkill, I'd rather just touch on the major ones.

 

Blizzard/Jagex

I pulled these two aside because I think these two are the most relevant payment models and the most relevant content out of the games I've played. Both of these games allow you to play for free WITH LIMITATIONS like Wurm. They do allow some form of creating in-game wealth to sell for other items or membership (WoWToken, Bonds).

 

Blizzard (World of Warcraft) allows a $15 USD payment monthly to create multiple characters across several servers and regions that does allow you to complete all content with one account, though two characters cannot be logged in at the same time. They offer pretty much regular boosts to new and existing players (Get to level 100 with a click of a button on one character since we released X expansion) and an on again off again referral system that has provided nice things like unique mounts, pets, etc. (Cosmetics). You can buy in-game currency with WoW Tokens, or you can pay for your membership with in-game currency to convert to WoW Tokens.

 

Jagex (Runescape) allows a $9.49 USD payment monthly to access both OSRS and RS3 (Two games) as one character per game, across multiple servers/regions that does allow you to complete all content with one account, though if you're looking to have specific skills (pure) you may need more than one account but that is a user's choice. I can't speak much for RS3 as I spent the majority of my playtime on OSRS and found the forums and polls to be similar to be the most similar to Wurm in the way that players said what they wanted, Devs created in-game polls, players voted on whether to proceed with Feature X, and if it was voted on, it usually made it into the game. The vote/democracy system is not true to Wurm, but over the many years of Wurm, if it's complained about enough on the forums, I think a decent amount of what gets complained about is eventually fixed/changed/added/removed from the game. You can buy in-game currency with Bonds, or you can pay for your membership with in-game currency to convert to Bonds.

 

Wurm

Then we have Wurm.  Wurm allows a $9.47 USD payment that must be purchased in two-month increments (Why?) making it the cheapest but most expensive one-time payment-wise since you have to pay $18.95 or 16 euros+ paypal fees + whatever your bank charges for international/conversion fees if they do. You could choose to buy 10 silver rather than the two-months membership if you're so inclined to do so but are penalized for this option as 10 silver from the official shop is 16 euros so again in the same $18.95 or 16 euros+ paypal fees + whatever your bank charges. However, you do have the flexibility to buy silver from other players which then brings it down to 10 euros generally in accordance with the 1s=1€ average, bringing it to $11.79 USD+ paypal fees + whatever your bank charges.

 

You cannot complete all content with one character generally speaking unless you are to max out the majority of your skills, or at least the ones you care about, and then priest up and never create anything again. So if you want to have enchantments, etc. you will need at least one other toon. This creates in my opinion, a very vibrant in-game economy that is different in comparison to almost any game on the market. I think the major trade-off for this hindrance is that you can also benefit from Wurm, that is to say you can earn money from Wurm if you are so inclined buy selling your goods to others and then selling the silver to other players for real life currency. This part does not exist in WoW or Jagex officially, against ToS, but does occur outside of their ToS.

 

Furthermore, the position has and I think will always be deed it or lose it, which creates an additional cost startup and per month for the player. Whether through deed stake or through settlement contract the minimum cost to create a deed is: 2.42 silver with a monthly upkeep of 1 silver.

 

I have not listed the other games because I do not think they are relevant to the general structure of Wurm. I do not think there is a lot of pay-to-win Wurm, but perhaps others will disagree. The only way I see that being a thing is buying affinities and buying enchanted tools, buying sleep bonus, but there is no requirement to do this and the gain for doing so I think is pretty balanced with the price of doing so.

 

Overall, I do not think Wurm is necessarily expensive but I do think in relation to the two games I think are the most comparable, it is more expensive. My main suggestion for overall improvement to the payment system would be allow one-month payments. I am sure there are/were reasons to not have them, I can think of a few off the top of my head that apply in the PVP realm, but one of my biggest pet peeves with Wurm is finding someone to buy silver from at random hours to prem up the 30 days I want to, when I think it should be a pretty fundamental basic to purchase one month of membership from Wurm directly.

Edited by Ayluin
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Yes, it is expensive, that's why I stopped playing. I have limited time and played max 10 hours per week, the cost of premium is just too high. Maybe the premium time could be counted in-game, and not by calendar?

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Wurm  is pretty damn cheap considering 2 factors. 

 

1) It's not a pay to win game. Seriously. A ton of mmos these days have a cash shop where if you don't want to be left behind, you gotta pay up 100s of $. Wurm doesn't have a "pay 90 euros and get your 99 ql fantastic ql scale set" option. That is amazing these days and pretty rare. 

 

 You can make rare stuff while grinding and sell em. You can participate in unique hunts and sell blood/scale/etc. You can help others. You gain silvers by hunting. By foraging. By burying. You can buy a trader or buy the form to an existing one from another player. You can sell horses. First month prem is 2 S now? 

 

Damn man, I live in Romania, eastern europe where the economy is shitty, but Wurm is still cheap as hell compared to most MMos.

 

2) Besides earning in game money to pay for your prem , wurm is also cheap considering you're never really obligated by a pay wall to explore the game. Most games DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO EXPLORE THE MAP if you aren't a certain level or premium. They either level cap it by having high lvl mobs in one area or another so you can go out and roam there if you aren't premium. You can quite literally sail to any server as a non prem, check out majestic deeds and villages, mountain fortresses and beautiful harbors. As a free player. Most games won't even allow you to progress unless you pay up or wait months for "features" to be unlocked. 

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I think that it may look very expensive for a new player.

First it gets called free-to-play then it ends up to be just free-to-try where you then have to pay 16 euro's for a subscription. Yes it's 2 months, but still it's 16 euro's to start.

Then you are forced to join someone's else village which many people don't want, so add another 10 or 16 euro's for the coins you need to start a deed.

Then after a bit they will start asking about enchants and priesting where they are told to make an alt which then also needs a sub, so again 16 euro's.

 

And yes I know you can gain coins by grinding foraging but that ain't fun for a new player who just started. and they can't sell anything because they have no skills.

I guess we're in need of new players, not? This might be something that needs some change.

 

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Honestly, its only as "expensive" as you think it is. If you're not enjoying the game, then paying for upkeep monthly (or even yearly) might be expensive to you. Buying prem might be expensive for you.
The only thing I don't like (which I completely understand), is how the 'subscription' cost fluctuates from month to month (based on the value of Euro). Some months it's like $17 something for 1 month prem and 5s. Other months, it's nearly $20.

If you work for your prem time (have high skills and sell your goods), then the 'subscription' cost is no problem for you.

Edited by Benie

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