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Alexgopen

Remove "too crowded" catapulting check

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When catapulting, if there are any decoration objects within it seems like two tiles of your catapult, you get this message and cannot use the catapult:

 

[05:39:45] You can't work with the small catapult. This area is too crowded.

 

This makes actual use of a catapult in a raiding scenario extremely tedious, as few if any places in a raided deed would have open areas free of decorations, and decorations inside nearby buildings would also prevent you from catapulting.

 

I suggest that catapults should ignore any objects within 1-2 tiles, so that they can actually be used properly without needing to bash lamps and push bsbs/chests/decorations away in a 3x3 area. 

 

Example of uncatapultable space:

o5Cre6p.png

Very immersive.

 

 

New meta: litter your deed with large anvils inside buildings so that nobody can catapult in your streets

Edited by Alexgopen
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Things that would be in the way of operating a catapult sounds like an immersion thing. Best to remove it.

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3 hours ago, armyskin said:

Things that would be in the way of operating a catapult sounds like an immersion thing. Best to remove it.

 

Objects two tiles away shouldn't stop you from using a catapult.  You could have an entire 3x3 clear around your catapult and still can't use it.

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Perhaps changing it so the object fired is destroyed instead?

This would prevent it entirely.

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18 hours ago, Orsus said:

Perhaps changing it so the object fired is destroyed instead?

This would prevent it entirely.

 

Why? Shards aren't even destroyed when catapulted at full speed toward your target.  It makes no sense to be unable to catapult just because there's a chest sitting two tiles off to your left somewhere.  And yet you freedomers who don't even use catapults call this immersion or post sarcastic responses because you hate pvp so much.

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I use catapults as much on freedom as I did on chaos.

 

put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

catapults are grossly over powered, I think a few things limiting your firing solution is minor for the amount of destruction they now churn out

Edited by JakeRivers

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@JakeRiversActually you haven't used the new mechanics under a pvp situation and you was already on freedom as the change occurred, so you haven't had to deal with the affect when I go round spamming decorative items. 

Therefore alex is correct but keep telling us you using on freedom is the same as a pvp situation.

Then again @Alexgopen you're speaking with the 2 people who defended fence spam >;')


+1 makes no sense, reduce to 1 tile away at the minimum lol.

Also don't get why Armyskin seems to think it's an immersion thing, a lamp is 2 tiles behind the machine you're operating???

Basically 2 of the same people commenting on things cause #freedom

 

Edited by Mclavin

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+1 i understand why you can't use a catapult if there's a bsb, fsb, forge, anything big right on it, and i mean on it, on the same tile, but why can i not use it if there is an altar one and a half tiles away? It's stupid

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56 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Actually you haven't used the new mechanics under a pvp situation and you was already on freedom as the change occurred, so you haven't had to deal with the affect when I go round spamming decorative items. 

Therefore alex is correct but keep telling us you using on freedom is the same as a pvp situation.

 

Actually I have catapulted enough and you do not need a pvp situation to know that catapulting is very broken, the damage is very overpowered at close range, at long range its completely hit and miss, I know about the 'too crowded' as I run into that all the time. I have no idea how anyone could possibly defend against a good catapult team on a raid other than covering your deed with decorations because there would be no way anyone could keep up repairs to the damage catapults and trebs inflict on large area's, if you can't kill your opponents your deed is going to die.

 

You don't even need wagon loads of ammo anymore, you just roll through what ever you are going after with less than a box of rocks.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Actually I have catapulted enough and you do not need a pvp situation to know that catapulting is very broken, the damage is very overpowered at close range, at long range its completely hit and miss, I know about the 'too crowded' as I run into that all the time. I have no idea how anyone could possibly defend against a good catapult team on a raid other than covering your deed with decorations because there would be no way anyone could keep up repairs to the damage catapults and trebs inflict on large area's, if you can't kill your opponents your deed is going to die.

 

You don't even need wagon loads of ammo anymore, you just roll through what ever you are going after with less than a box of rocks.

wtf dude.;... Have you ever actually catapulted a real, live enemy deed? Do you know how hard it is? Ok let me put it into perspective :

1st of all you have to get a catapult there, it's probably miles away, you can build it there or bring it in a knarr or whatever, it's effort nontheless

2nd of all, you have to get ammo, there might not be a close mine , you might have to make a mine there, +++effort

3rd of all, after you're done getting the catapult / trebuche and you have ammo, you can start catapulting, but wait, you have to find the exact angle, and you have to find the exact place you can use to actually get in, i mean, not all buildings in all deeds are entrances to the token you know?

4th and last thing, you have to do ALL the above while the enemy is logging in more and more people , unless they're not already dicing your brains out of your greathelm.

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1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

wtf dude.;... Have you ever actually catapulted a real, live enemy deed? Do you know how hard it is? Ok let me put it into perspective :

1st of all you have to get a catapult there, it's probably miles away, you can build it there or bring it in a knarr or whatever, it's effort nontheless

2nd of all, you have to get ammo, there might not be a close mine , you might have to make a mine there, +++effort

3rd of all, after you're done getting the catapult / trebuche and you have ammo, you can start catapulting, but wait, you have to find the exact angle, and you have to find the exact place you can use to actually get in, i mean, not all buildings in all deeds are entrances to the token you know?

4th and last thing, you have to do ALL the above while the enemy is logging in more and more people , unless they're not already dicing your brains out of your greathelm.

 

LOL

 

 

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5 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

LOL

tell me im wrong, come on, and prove it too, i dare u

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3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

tell me im wrong, come on, and prove it too, i dare u

 

I have no idea who you are, but you sound new, what with the whining about the effort of raiding a deed and such, its diddly squat to build catapults on site and open mines for ammo.

 

The new code no longer needs 10k ammo stacked up to raid a deed, a few hundred shards at most for close range work to wipe a place off the map.

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The crowded catapult caper sounds silly, and I agree with Alex on that, but I also agree that deeds, which can take months to build, shouldn't be destroyable in hours.

 

That's a good way to drive people away from Wurm.

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he hasn't used the new system on a pvp server, jakerivers used the old system. He also should know the catapult is easy to defend against, it's the treb that's hard :)

But hey, I'm just the guy who's raided/defended under the current system, don't take my opinion on it.

And close range with cata is needed, so try going close to a building with enemy 7 tiles away trying to push you off a cata/drag the cata/dropping items...ya..
And easily was getting out repaired and have out repaired a cata. lol. Happened at RiP, HG and Thornfield.

Remove "too crowded" If you think otherwise, well you haven't used it in a pvp situation. 

Freedom doesn't have anybody stopping you from catapulting lawl, good to know you find it easy on freedom tho :D

Edited by Mclavin

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I used the treb on test and its way blown out on power, why you guys make your selves out as the end voice on testing and leave those details out is pretty much like cheating.

 

I lump trebs in with catapulting and both are OP'd. If you have no opposition you can use that short range catapult to devastate a deed in short time, and that is easy to do you just pick the time when the other guys are offline, which is a valid tactic, but now when you do it you just roll right on through with ease.

 

Could you truly say you could of raided kyara using the old catapult mechanics as easily as you did with the new?

 

 

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Excuse me? Darklords was the one who did the bulk test and went on to continue reporting any bugs / test fixes afterwards. We jumped on/helped whenever he needed it. That was TC.
If you felt treb was terribly OP and reported it, that's down to the devs discretion. I got raided many times by the treb, i hatez the treb.

Whats your damage per shot on a 70ql house wall with a cata? At my skill/level (average is 37ish in TC) we do less than what the old system did. 
The treb is the Op'd one, but we were a victim of that many times on epic, ask mondain :D This thread isn't about the treb, which I did state was OP??

 

Quote

it's the treb that's hard



This is all irrelevant to the cata and "too crowded" message tho, which doesn't make sense. We were out repaired when 1 cata was going vs 2 people, so i don't see the issue with cata - when we're close to the walls I'm only doing a scaled damage starting at 4dmg...5...6...8...eventually when i get to 60 I see bigger damage but nothing over 20-25. Use to be 4-5 shots with a cata and a wall was down, not the case for me anymore and my skill level. 

Account for all the "failed" shots you get at lower level too, sheesh i hate the cata. Defo not my go-to option. 50-60 is a bit more better and consistent but still takes more than 4-5 shots most times.


And yeah kyara raid would have been just as easy cause nobody there could repair due to perms apparently. Or might have been the fact they were all too busy looting each others items before we got in.
Eitherway we raided many deeds vs MRC just fine, Kyara wouldn't have gone any differently with the people they had in local, defo not up to the task of defending a deed the size of kyara.

And if there is no opposition then you can technically bash with a large maul uncontested or use a ram, it doesn't even matter if there is no defence. We all know that. If nobody online and you're raiding a deed under any system then you're getting in or you're necroe, or you raid hells kitchen by picklocking in, draining and using the deed matts to build a cata to escape out :D

Edited by Mclavin

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I agree with things being 2 tiles away interfering is an issue, catapult should need a clear area to function. more than a 3x3 needing to be clear was not information that was known to me when I first replied. A balance should be found. I feel an area 2x2 would be fine to consider moving around to "use" the machine. but yes having things piled up all around the catapult impeding its use is absolutely an immersion thing. If I were to pull a catapult into my living room then by all means my couch is in the way. I ran into the issue with using rams in a house but those were able to function with the single tile being cleared out. I admit that I believed catapults to work the same way. needing more than a 3x3 is excessive and should be adjusted to a realistic area.

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McLovin also fails to mention the OP (now nerfed) damage on battering rams that was heavily utilized during that raid, the fact that trebs no longer cap at 20 damage per shot.

 

And by the way, treb and catapult mechanics work exactly the same on freedom, so you can skip past the "you don't PvP" trolling, thanks.

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45 minutes ago, armyskin said:

I agree with things being 2 tiles away interfering is an issue, catapult should need a clear area to function. more than a 3x3 needing to be clear was not information that was known to me when I first replied. A balance should be found. I feel an area 2x2 would be fine to consider moving around to "use" the machine. but yes having things piled up all around the catapult impeding its use is absolutely an immersion thing. If I were to pull a catapult into my living room then by all means my couch is in the way. I ran into the issue with using rams in a house but those were able to function with the single tile being cleared out. I admit that I believed catapults to work the same way. needing more than a 3x3 is excessive and should be adjusted to a realistic area.


you can catapult over a low stone wall 1 tile away but you can't catapult because a large anvil/lamp/anvil is 2 tiles to your left?

Even if you're standing on the right/behind/infront. Maybe if no room was based on where the player was it would make more sense, I could see trying to climb between a catapult and anvil winching is problematic, so if I go to the left side and nothing is there I would have the room i need to operate. 

Actually wargasm if you read my point - using mechanics under pvp scenario is a little different than using them on freedom where you got nobody drop-spamming to prevent you.
ofc having a limitation on freedom is fine, but on chaos it's a whole different story when somebody is seeking to stop you doing something lol. What's on freedom using mechanics to stop you? Nobody/Nothing.
I guess karma wasn't an issue on freedom but in pvp 1 change and it won you the war? Amazing how different scenarios utilise different mechanics. Kinda my point here. 

If you haven't used the current mechanics in a raid then why comment on how effective they are. Hitting a wall on freedom with no defenders saying whoaaaaaa this is devastating and actually doing it in a raid is different.

Rams were OP which is why we reported them and got them nerfed. I just love the morale of the stories here - we see something is OP during use and report it - It then gets nerfed.

Anyways im gonna go look on the black market for items. Cya

Edited by Mclavin

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7 minutes ago, Mclavin said:


Maybe if no room was based on where the player was it would make more sense, I could see trying to climb between a catapult and anvil winching is problematic, so if I go to the left side and nothing is there I would have the room i need to operate. 

 

Right, that is the reason i said a 2x2 area would be good. Walls not interfering but a decoration like a rug being under the catapult is something else that makes this a silly mechanic. If a decoration is going to block the use then it had better damn well be an item that would interfere Larders FSBs and the like. On the same note walls and fences should also need to be a small distance away. A catapult pulled up to and facing a multistory building should also get a block message. 

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I don't get much practice on buildings on freedom, but I have opened up a lot of disbanded deeds taking out fences and a few have been a challenge, sure there is no one there defending, but its nice as you can figure out the angles and mechanics at your leisure, and even with a new alt with 1 catapult skill you can effectively take down fences fairly easy, even at 1 tile range. Being able to use catapults in very tight places is a cake walk when compared to having to do anything at 10 range from before.

 

If I was able to use today's mechanic's on gotem, it would of saved me an entire evening up there by myself.

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Tried to raid a building with a battering ram.  I guess there was a large anvil inside.

 

[03:13:40] You can't work with the battering ram. This area is too crowded.

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5 hours ago, Alexgopen said:

Tried to raid a building with a battering ram.  I guess there was a large anvil inside.

 

[03:13:40] You can't work with the battering ram. This area is too crowded.

 

Could of been any number of decorations that prevented the ram being used also I think ###### above ground affects it too, but it is the entire catapult system that is broken, either op'd, too complicated, or just useless.

 

 

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8 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Could of been any number of decorations that prevented the ram being used also I think ###### above ground affects it too, but it is the entire catapult system that is broken, either op'd, too complicated, or just useless.

 

 

 

The point stands.  Put decorations such as large anvils inside your underground gatehouses and you are left only to bash or pick them all.  The deed we were raiding had underground gatehouses down a reinforced tunnel, all imped to 90ql with fantastic locks, and we had to bash them with large mauls because battering rams could not be used.  It's broken how you can use decorations like this to render battering rams useless, especially when they're supposed to be the solution to raiding underground buildings, normally dealing double damage underground when the are isnt "too crowded". 

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