Mclavin

Time to support one PVP server

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Those who wants epic as main pvp lands.....

I am sure you guys also understand if we get rid of chaos map and focus on epic as main pvp map and no connection to freedom isles, gear wise...... was it 80%??? ....80% of the current market who buys crap on freedom is PvPers.

 

PvE economy would collapse and pretty much some people dont want to pay to play and after that, since cant make silvers ingame due to market collapsing would mean some of the freedomers quitting and therefore even less people.

 

There isn't a thing called easy solution when all is tied up together and have to think the whole picture. I am pretty sure that those who enjoy epic's skill gain wont enjoy that much on chaos or freedomers endless grinding and same goes around, that we might not enjoy easier life on epic after years of grinding on freedom/chaos. Maybe something inbetween?? Might be screwed up because of the code tho since chaos is attached to freedom isles. Or make a new skill curve that on a certain point you get X amount of more skill gain... like to 50 skill level? Might lure newcomers into a trap thinking that hey this is quite ok, until the real grinding phase begins.

 

I was just talking earlier today with my small group, that even tho we have been building a deed over a year now, we would still consider removing chaos all together and have epic servers transferred to freedom isles as they are except for elevation which would need total new map as in its place. Keep the home servers as they are, i dont care, but make new elevation as the one pvp map only and from where u could get to freedom isles by boat. That way, most of people benefits in some parts.

What comes to skill transfers etc.. i dont care at this point if epic guys could keep all their skills they have got while on epic, but we need a solution.... wiping out chaos and elevation so everyone would get new and fresh start for pvp and hopefully more chaos like new map to play around which isn't flatter than pancake.

 

I would love to see actual developers getting off from the shadows and actually talk with us players constructively what is and what would be future plans and what people would love to see and maybe how it is possible to implement these things, maybe get some WU guys to help on programming future changes too?? Maybe a poll which would be announced on weekly news or whatever and people would have a 1 month time to vote their favorite solution to avoid possible butthurts.

 

Edited by Themystrix

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End Epic Specific updates. Think thats one thing both sides agreed on.

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Wurm will be dipping below 2500 paying subscriptions this week.

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1 hour ago, Nappy said:

There is a big difference between full time, around the clock efforts to build a deed and occasional visits to have a weekly big fight with BL.

 

As far as being active we had people online every time you guys popped our deed alarms (four times I think) as well as the many, many, many, many more times when BL people dropped by. We also had a continuous presence on Elevation capping towers and having death tabs since Sandy Shores was deeded on Elevation. The reason you are unaware of the death tabs that popped is likely that you just weren't around to see them. We were.

 

Tell you what. I will stop talking about what I observed of your team if you also take your same advice and stop spouting off about JK and others on the server who you have no right to speak about.

 

Meanwhile enjoy your time on Chaos. We will continue to enjoy our time on Epic.


And all these things you bring up you think none of the other kingdoms did way before you crawled out of your hole?

Both Rome and BL have been making deeds and went and fought at each others deeds it just comes a point when you realize there is nothing to fight over....skilling on epic is pointless since you better do it on freedom to so you can port back over and get them back if you die.

Both Rome and BL been capping towers back and forth until we kinda realised that there is no point cause we had a side of hota each really....that other non relevant kingdom that just came out was still up at their starter deed...and the towers you capped was mostly down at the old VD island in the south east corner of the map far from anything anyone cares about....up until recently when both BL and Rome started to disband and you crawled up towards the old JK lands...

The map is poop and i think the only good change they made on Epic was the armour one....Valrei is utter rubbish now and the rest of it as well...

I mean i am sure you guys enjoy running around on a server without competition....be cheaper for you to setup another WU server tho probably and play with your mates there....

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how about we all just focus on our own servers and stop shitposting about other servers, We get it - You love your populated Chaos server thats why your crying for it to be focused on, but im enjoying my populated affliction server which i am happy to just be building deeds on with the father actions/gains, if there was a freedom server Like epic i'd most likely play on it but there isn't so thats why im staying on epic - and before you suggest "WU", dont.

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[00:52:58] Fatynoob slain by Gianna Heng
[00:59:03] Jaz slain by Gianna Heng
[01:00:58] Netsky slain by Gianna Heng
[01:04:38] Annyil slain by Gianna Heng

 

Still activity there... we lost miserably but still!

Thanks for the fun!

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23 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

End Epic Specific updates. Think thats one thing both sides agreed on.

But then you're just throwing away the advantage of having a separate code base and tying the developers's's hands unnecessarily.

 

That doesn't increase or change updates made to Chaos.

 

I know a lot of you think that if only the guy working on Epic would stop and focus on Chaos, that would mean more updates on Chaos but I honestly don't think that's accurate.

Updates on Chaos are updates on Freedom and updates on Freedom have a giant gorilla in the room called pve.  Epic doesn't have that burden.

 

From a development standpoint, I don't think that should be underestimated.  A roadmap for Epic is able to be pvp-centric, entirely.  A roadmap for Chaos cannot be.  The developers could just think that's a really attractive thing to work with.

 

They're two different things and there's more to it than how developer labor hours are allocated.  I don't think what you guys are suggesting would actually help.  You could quite possibly end up with no Epic, but also no increased updates for yourselves.  What does that get you?

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Like Fox said. Both sides were going hard, I wouldn't even dare say we was "semi" retired.

7fba3aad63435b27d3156eb8c65f4e80.jpg


984d9d6a0fe5f707c44eb8c674d3b1e6.jpg

 

I was online literally most of the time since Novemember, why are people claiming i was semi retired to try make a point about their server being dead?

Big up my boy Jakei, we went hard at Kronos. rip.


@Reylaark until they address the skill transfer [which they claim is impossible] then there is no point hyping up a seperate code base if nobody is there to play it.

Edited by Mclavin

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4 hours ago, Mclavin said:

@Reylaark until they address the skill transfer [which they claim is impossible] then there is no point hyping up a seperate code base if nobody is there to play it.

"Impossible" lol.

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26 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

"Impossible" lol.

 

I would 99% say that someone from WU has already worked out how to do it but until we get a Dev that is specifically working on and interested in pvp updates, changes, nothing is really going to change. @Retro pls at least give us a yes we are working on pvp and more info will be coming shortly or say no we dont have any updates for now and it could be a while or w/e jsut give us an answer so we know you guys still care ;p.

Edited by Rhianna

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I sat down about a month ago and figured out what it would take for me to be competitive in WO pvp with absolutely no help from a kingdom or any players. I have this thing called time and I waste most of my work time thinking about Wurm scenarios because I’m a sad third shift brained peasant.

 

I played about a month ago before real life obligations got in the way. I thought “I’ll start a new character and do it the right way” we’ll that turned into “I can’t even ride a horse what is life”. So after being discouraged for a few days I hopped back on to try and get a set of tools made so I could get my body stats up. After an hour of searching for an iron vein that wasn’t fenced in or deeded I found one kind of in the middle of no where. I made bricks, gathered clay and 30 minutes later I had a forge. So now I’m up to about 3 hours total gameplay and I’ve barely scratched any resource gathering skills let alone any PvP related skills. I play for about another 3ish days and realize that if you start from scratch not buying silver and P2W the whole way through, Wurm is terrible. The game is extremely unattractive in the sense that there is little to no direction for new players outside of CA chat and the wiki. The tutorial is awful, most of the player base isn’t helpful unless you find a person who speaks English and responds faster then every 10 minutes. (Only people who responded asked me if I was PL and never responded after I said no)

 

If I was a legitimate new player with absolutely no knowledge of Wurm, I would quit and just go play a faster paced MMO with no P2W purchases or terrible skill grinding. The game is literally impossible for a new player to play or even think about PvPing. I know the game is a sandbox but there is literally no direction on what you should be doing.. you load up on a Freedom server and immediately your chat box is filled up with people trash talking others, terrible WTS spam and just garbage forum talk. To me the game is completely impossible to play unless you know someone who can help you as soon as you log in. 

 

Now that I got all that jazz out of the way here is my pvp rant. CLOSE. EPIC. DOWN. Why it’s still up is beyond me, it’s been dead for 3 years outside of the few months that have spiked due to people trying it out again hoping things were fixed and just leaving again or transfering to Freedom. Your player base went to Freedom besides the 30ish total active players that are hanging on for this great update that will never come to make Epic fun again. The developers have always had an issue with making the right decisions in these types of situations, instead of working with what is in front of them they make another pile of pretty painted turds to play with until they squeeze it and remember it’s crap. 

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6 hours ago, Holar said:

Now that I got all that jazz out of the way here is my pvp rant. CLOSE. EPIC. DOWN. Why it’s still up is beyond me, it’s been dead for 3 years outside of the few months that have spiked due to people trying it out again hoping things were fixed and just leaving again or transfering to Freedom. Your player base went to Freedom besides the 30ish total active players that are hanging on for this great update that will never come to make Epic fun again. The developers have always had an issue with making the right decisions in these types of situations, instead of working with what is in front of them they make another pile of pretty painted turds to play with until they squeeze it and remember it’s crap. 

Even if they did closed Epic in this moment, it would solve nothing for Chaos or pvp at all.

 

Logical would be make some changes first?

 

As for starting from scratch, you always must find community that would help you or just buy a character and then go solo.

 

Btw still no staff responses in this topic, but managed to snipe Budda reading this topic yesterday. Big brother is watching.

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42 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

Btw still no staff responses in this topic, but managed to snipe Budda reading this topic yesterday. Big brother is watching.

Doesnt matter unless they act. He was posting a bunch regarding the meditation rework and also about when it was gonna happend. Then it went quiet.

Edited by Zekezor

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7 hours ago, Holar said:

I sat down about a month ago and figured out what it would take for me to be competitive in WO pvp with absolutely no help from a kingdom or any players. I have this thing called time and I waste most of my work time thinking about Wurm scenarios because I’m a sad third shift brained peasant.

 

I played about a month ago before real life obligations got in the way. I thought “I’ll start a new character and do it the right way” we’ll that turned into “I can’t even ride a horse what is life”. So after being discouraged for a few days I hopped back on to try and get a set of tools made so I could get my body stats up. After an hour of searching for an iron vein that wasn’t fenced in or deeded I found one kind of in the middle of no where. I made bricks, gathered clay and 30 minutes later I had a forge. So now I’m up to about 3 hours total gameplay and I’ve barely scratched any resource gathering skills let alone any PvP related skills. I play for about another 3ish days and realize that if you start from scratch not buying silver and P2W the whole way through, Wurm is terrible. The game is extremely unattractive in the sense that there is little to no direction for new players outside of CA chat and the wiki. The tutorial is awful, most of the player base isn’t helpful unless you find a person who speaks English and responds faster then every 10 minutes. (Only people who responded asked me if I was PL and never responded after I said no)

 

If I was a legitimate new player with absolutely no knowledge of Wurm, I would quit and just go play a faster paced MMO with no P2W purchases or terrible skill grinding. The game is literally impossible for a new player to play or even think about PvPing. I know the game is a sandbox but there is literally no direction on what you should be doing.. you load up on a Freedom server and immediately your chat box is filled up with people trash talking others, terrible WTS spam and just garbage forum talk. To me the game is completely impossible to play unless you know someone who can help you as soon as you log in. 

 

Now that I got all that jazz out of the way here is my pvp rant. CLOSE. EPIC. DOWN. Why it’s still up is beyond me, it’s been dead for 3 years outside of the few months that have spiked due to people trying it out again hoping things were fixed and just leaving again or transfering to Freedom. Your player base went to Freedom besides the 30ish total active players that are hanging on for this great update that will never come to make Epic fun again. The developers have always had an issue with making the right decisions in these types of situations, instead of working with what is in front of them they make another pile of pretty painted turds to play with until they squeeze it and remember it’s crap. 

 

Six months or so ago, I was a legitimate new player with no knowledge of Wurm. I chose Epic because it sounded post-apocalyptic, but mainly because it was the place designed for new players to have a shot at catching up.

 

With the Epic skillgain update, I can tell you that -works-. I have 52+ body, decent fighting skills, and more than one 90+ crafting skill (base, with more on the way). I've levelled to 70 meditation (effective 90+), and I'm level 14 on my path. (I'm sure Freedomers would -love- to see all those skills get transferred! :P )

 

While the Epic grind could certainly be improved further for newbies (why are we still failing at kindling! :P ), there's no way I could get close to the above on Freedom/Chaos (already tried that once, before the Epic update, not trying again). Epic is -already- fun for a new player, or I wouldn't still be here.

 

The problem I see is that you all are cynical/jaded/burnt-out with the Epic endgame, and I'm not saying that's wrong, but it isn't the entirety of Epic. This whole "let's-ditch-all-of-Epic-because-endgame-sucks-for-us-oldtimers" smacks of elitism, however, and really makes you look bad. :(

 

Just out of curiosity, how many of you would come back to try Epic if all the devs did was reset Elevation?

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9 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

Just out of curiosity, how many of you would come back to try Epic if all the devs did was reset Elevation?

 

I still wouldn't try Epic again:

1.  My skills gained from building deeds and crating would not transfer to freedom.

2.  Resetting elevation will become the new challenge server, and suggestions will arise every few months to reset it again and again and again.

3.  I'm not going to play on both PvP clusters simultaneously.  Building and crafting can be a full time job, even worse on two clusters.

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17 hours ago, Mclavin said:

End Epic Specific updates. Think thats one thing both sides agreed on.

 

As Reylaark has pointed out, Epic is an excellent place to do risky, new things, of which the best can be ported to Chaos. I note that you yourself have other suggestions for porting Epic changes to Chaos.

 

Were it my game, I'd shift (continue to shift?) the Epic focus from pleasing you oldtimers/hardcore-PvPers to attracting and retaining players completely new to Wurm.

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18 hours ago, icbash said:

 

      4. medications op 

+1 

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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

As Reylaark has pointed out, Epic is an excellent place to do risky, new things, of which the best can be ported to Chaos. I note that you yourself have other suggestions for porting Epic changes to Chaos.

 

Were it my game, I'd shift (continue to shift?) the Epic focus from pleasing you oldtimers/hardcore-PvPers to attracting and retaining players completely new to Wurm.

And as i pointed out, epic has had seperate code for ages and that didn't help the last 3 years. Just because you can doesn't mean they will.
Players opt'd to go freedom/chaos because of that code base. It is easier for devs to have a seperate code cause less arguments with freedom, i agree.
But when nothing is getting done with that and you have 10-20 people peak times, whats the point.

Ele: 4 MRh: 1 JKh: 3 BLh: 9

I need to tell TC to stop logging in on BLH :D 

And @Nappylikes to say Rome is all on Serenity and are "being active" If it's true then you have a pmk with over 200 accounts on serenity yet the chart says only 3 are online. 
Where is the activity? oh. If x kingdom were to go to x home server, wouldn't x homeserver get a temporary server boost whilst x kingdom logged off/travelled to their destination on x server?...Yup. Seems likely.
So the "fact" that "JKH" has a server pop based on you seeing that, was because x kingdoms were leaving epic and travelled to x home server to log off thus making your observation yet again nothing but a temporary spike.

 

it was the old timers who 1. nerfed the effective high body stats after 60+ in line for new players 2. pushed for more friendly entry 3. Nerfed SOTG. 4. pushed for skill transfer BOTH WAYS. They half arsed the last part. 

I can't even list all the things we've suggested/had implemented for new players, as you pointed out you're 6 months old on epic and you try talking as if you've been around for 3-4 years and try to say we're the ones who pushed players, no, devs are, we are the ones who kept making calls for updates/fixes before the population left. And you're too new to see it but epic is done son, you wanna try tell me after 2+ years of waiting this year Epic is fixed? nope. But I do know Chaos has the map, the injection ty to freedom and can potentially be a lot better with more of a dev focus towards it. Splitting mechanics so some work on Chaos and some don't work on Freedom already happens, shoulder pad buffs don't work on Chaos FOR example. 

EPIC should no longer have a Focus nor even be around. it's dead. You're just pushing it cause you're new and haven't faced the end game problems you claim "we became bored off" You clearly missed the part where we've been pushing 2 years consistantly for epic to be revived, you trying to say the old gaurd of epic aka Gary/Sme just left because they "got bored" of end game? Pls, people loved/cared *D* for epic.

The focus should be on Chaos as the PVP/Conquest server. Epic should be shutdown and relaunched with new map and a better skill transfer system that UNITES the game as we asked for, not keep it apart and the current ghost town.
On top of that they should make Epic a Campaign based - Challenge server where it resets periodically and try the new daring changes there, then implement over to Chaos if they prove popular.

If that doesn't happen, a new map with overhauled mechanics. BUT the skill system has to work both ways so players can grind on epic and not be missing out on advancement because they went to a pvp cluster. 
You people on epic right now are getting your amazing body stats then when you come to see that faster skill grind doesn't mean better gameplay, you'll think dang i rather be 40 body str on chaos then 53 body str on epic, 
cause chaos has the population and epic doesn't lol. And you got no way of transfering that work over to Chaos. You're in the same dead end that MANY players wanted out from.
To try and tell the people who were able to escape from that dead end to go back and rework towards that dead end is in one word: DUMB.

Everybody should agree the way skills are transferred = wrong and that is why epic became the ghost town.
 

Eitherway i don't think population will change for epic now, especially since the Majority of Epic supports who number in the 100's left the game or opt'd to play on freedom or chaos.
Epic should be seen as a event server now and Chaos as the 24/7 persistent conquest/pvp server. Anything more for epic you're just dreaming at this point.


Btw you're grinding my gears about how you talk about chaos.

You talk as if no new players are on Chaos yet there are a ton and WU/AO are made up of new players/players from freedom.
You keep claiming that CHaos is a one sided adventure which isn't true. We have and have had many new players in our kingdom go out and pvp.
WU recently got drake from TC with half their team probably being below 30 body str. 

 

On top of that, no I wouldn't go back to Elevation just for a map reset becuase of the above issues.
Show me a influence map for Elevation right now?

I'm working on one for Chaos and this map is as healthy as you could ask for - as all of wurm, we just need more people. People that we keep getting thanks to the injection from freedom.

This is very much work in progress and is not finished - I want to add banners for each kingdom and i need to clean up the influences a bit more.


This map is a influence and "claim" map - Areas marked may contain towers/deeds and are the general control that the kingdom has over that set land. This may not always be tower based, but through the infrastructure to reach it.
Highlighted areas also show where you're more likely to encounter playyer from the set kingdom. Please note the white border is tc ;d....joke

be9eae4d18ee620189f5218501e4fce1.jpg
https://gyazo.com/be9eae4d18ee620189f5218501e4fce1

A map this healthy has to be supported properly with non epic specific updates and get some real changes over to PVP. Continue to use epic as a test ground for these changes if they don't want to reset, but they should 100% come over to chaos if proved to be good. But now is a vital time for Chaos - Show support and players will remain/come - Epic is already dead there is no urgency there. 

Let me just say I feel sorry for you guys for working towards a dead end. I also feel sorry for any new player you try to drag to Epic because you're also working them into the dead end. 
The safest option is Freedom, you get best of both clusters in the future and you can always escape the "hardcore groups" by going to freedom and still move forward with your characters progress.

Edited by Mclavin

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A -1 from me, I think we should go the other way, put PvP on its own cluster and PvE on its cluster.

 

Move Chaos onto its own cluster, remove the rest of epic.


The behaviour of certain skills etc on epic is already differentiated in the codebase, thus it would allow for a much stronger split in the codebase to the net benefit of both sets of players; no more nerfs for freedom to balance PvP, no more PvE buffs breaking PvP.

 

Everyone wins, everyone ends up happy; PvPers can still PvE, PvEers can still PvP.

Edited by Etherdrifter

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18 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

A -1 from me, I think we should go the other way, put PvP on its own cluster and PvE on its cluster.

 

Move Chaos onto its own cluster, remove the rest of epic.


The behaviour of certain skills etc on epic is already differentiated in the codebase, thus it would allow for a much stronger split in the codebase to the net benefit of both sets of players; no more nerfs for freedom to balance PvP, no more PvE buffs breaking PvP.

 

Everyone wins, everyone ends up happy; PvPers can still PvE, PvEers can still PvP.

No, you are extremely wrong if you think this is a good idea. I'll explain you why. As a PVP'er you are not only a PVP'er. It does not work like that. I have friends that go on freedom every few days, i have friends that go there once a month, i know people that live on freedom and only come to chaos once a month. Most people don't "only PVP" or "only PVE". They do both servers.

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Ether, I understand the split code that was my highlight too, but playing with 6 players because you got a unique code is not worth it.

They do have to address how to update chaos without effecting the rest of the cluster tho. 

They could technically make it a epic portal to chaos, but leave the rates the same. So you're able to skill on freedom OR "Epic-Chaos" but have 100% transfer of skill and any affinities. Items should also cross. This is complicated but would have to be done if we wanted to shift chaos over to the different code - You'd have to keep the door open to go anywhere skill anywhere and not be blocked from transfer

Edited by Mclavin

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as nice as separate clusters with different code could be on paper, the different clusters as is is what leads to people feeling like their cluster isn't getting enough attention or is the least important

 

wurm needs to be united.  pvp and pve both need to support wurm as a whole for the game to grow instead of either side thinking the opposite side should get dumped on. 

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This isn't a PvE or PvP issue though.

This is a PvP Epic and PvP Chaos issue.

 

A segment of the PvP Chaos population feels PvP Epic should no longer exist, though the end-result would not yield the benefits to PvP Chaos that they think it would... at least, it doesn't seem like it would to me and I have no particular bias for one or the other.

 

It does seem like this could be easily put to rest if a staff member were to step in and explain the differences in coding for Epic vs. coding for Chaos and why it makes sense to them, and may indeed be preferable, to keep Epic going and keep updating it.

Not that they owe anyone an explanation as far as I'm concerned, but maybe it would satisfy those who think Epic is somehow holding up development for Chaos.

Either way though, not a PvEvPvP issue.

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They do owe an explanation actually, perhaps to all those who felt they had to leave epic due to no support/updates/communication.
to those like nappy who want to stay but are unsure what support/updates/communication they will also receive. 
And finally to those who are invested on chaos and see the server going down the same route as epic (hense the call for support)

And it is a PVE/PVP issue when people are saying to move Chaos off the freedom cluster to separate the code.

And it isn't a segment of Chaos population, you understand 90% of the ones talking are from Epic? Even more who chimed in don't play chaos But do come from Epic - Forced to go freedom because of the ghost town.
This isn't Chaos vs Epic. This is the majority of PVPers from Epic who moved to Chaos asking to get real support to an active cluster before it ends up as dead as epic.

You can go and update epic right now, but the map with 7 kingdoms = chaos. So why hope epic gets populated after x changes/mechanics when there is a server which doesn't need a new map - Just the population to keep boosting the healthy deed drops/kingdom placements. Something that isn't happening on Epic for MANY reasons.

If you think people are going to drop 7 kingdoms/countless deeds when 90% of Epic has already been dropped/disbanded then it's just a crazy thought.

Focus on the future of chaos, there is 1.

And tbh, a staff member steps in and says "we support both" or "we not gonna stop supporting epic" 

cool.

Back to sqaure 1 and the issue at hand.

Only way to put anybody at rest is to release a road map for pvp and if that isn't helping chaos in anyway, rethink your road map for pvp.
 

Edited by Mclavin

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