Mclavin

Time to support one PVP server

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As a non PVP player it has never made sense to me that epic was a long standing alternative to freedom / chaos. It just splits population for no reason. Would be cooler to see epic be occasional events people could choose to go and participate in then take their prizes back to freedom IMO. 

 

But concentrating pvp dev efforts to one place is way better, and if done on chaos both the pvp community and non pvp community can benefit. 

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Yes^ Use Epic for challenge campaigns and make it the official event server. But keep the everyday pvp/conquest to chaos.

This way makes sense with the transfers.

Campaigns could run off the mission system and actually give out reward to the team which Should be transferable back to freedom.

This would still require a new map on a challenge/campaign based size/focus

Edited by Mclavin

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I've always thought the reason there are more pvp specific updates on Epic rather than on Chaos is because Epic has its own separate code base, where as Chaos is ultimately the same code as other isles on Freedom.

 

I haven't seen it quite as much recently but there used to be regular calls to "separate the code base."

I've personally been whining about the one-pet rule constantly, but I think it's an example of why the changes they can make on Chaos are somewhat limited in scope.  It seems changes made there can potentially have a big effect on the other half of the customer base (pve) so they're kinda screwed if they do, kinda screwed if they don't.

 

They may very well be kidding themselves to think there's any hope of reviving Epic (fully, no opinion on the ql of its life), or they're so really wishing someone somewhere had an idea to make it happen because it would make development so much more fruitful and easier going forward.

I think you mentioned a willingness to break Chaos off from Freedom, and I don't know your history.  Maybe, if you came from Epic recently, you're accustomed to not having the connection between islands but I think for a lot of old-timer Chaos/Wild folks, that's a non-starter.

 

To some extent, the benefit of having pvp and pve connected is allowing the pvp content to be sort of "end-game" material.  The downside though, as I understand it and someone more knowledgeable correct me, but the downside is substantial limitations in what they can do with pvp without affecting pve (and vice versa).

 

On the other hand, there are benefits to not being able to transport goods from the safety of pve into warfare.

Think we could maybe make a thread, "Epic/Chaos, your pros, your cons" and have it be only people listing what it is they love about each without responding to each other?  One post each person with pros and cons for each environment.  Can probably be pieced together from existing threads, and maybe CC already has a huge whiteboard full of that info.  I'm just curious.

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Epic was originally intended to be wiped. Atleast that was my understanding/the commonly believed truth. 

 

best part of epic was the beginning anyway.

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Focus on chaos. More players there than whole epic cluster. 

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3 minutes ago, Lundu said:

Focus on chaos. More players there than whole epic cluster. 

Have you seen any interest in this topic from Retrograde or staff side? What focus if they not focused at pvp at all in this moment?

Besides, they know the numbers, and people still assure everyone how many players play on Chaos. Not like skill transfers and broken epic skilling had something to do with it, right?

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5 minutes ago, nicedreams said:

Give us challenge servers.  I want a challenge statue.

Heres my five minutes of brainstorming idea for helping wurm and the pvp community.

3/6 month 'epic-challenge'

Server Free to play characters have no restrictions - This is to allow people to invite friends to try the game without making them pay for accounts.

Silver as normal priced (as it worked on challenge 1 and 2) use to buy rez stones and deed upkeeps - This encourages players to group up. (This gives the devs $)

3/6-month server with all the experimental and controversial changes. We keep the good ones and toss out the ones that we didn't like.

Make it impact freedom/chaos in a positive way with some dank rewards to encourage people to play Give Kingdom wide goals that would be hard to achieve like: Drain the enemies settlement and build something hard to build in the center of the map.

Increase the skillgain but not too crazy - 10x was too much, maybe like 3/5x would be more appropriate.
This includes FS gain.

Make something a little more random and noticeable than the depot to fight over. Make it move around or something. The idea of spur of the moment fights encouraged by some dank reward is cool.

Anyone else have anything they think would make this cool? We should focus on ways to make something WE want to play. Too much negativity boys.

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Main thing I hate about Chaos is money.  I feel people like Chaos, because they make money from creating a PMK and also from people buying gear with real life money.  Same with materials.  I was one of the ones that always complained about not being strong enough and on Epic I'm on a level playing field now.

 

Played Epic for couple months and got better gear, horses, enchants and all that.  I'd never be able to do that on Chaos without a credit card.  Don't need to buy an account and can just build your character quicker.

 

Chaos is one sided and always will be.  Epic is more even playing field.

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TC and whilst group was JKC didn't buy drake/scale it killed dragons/players for the bulk players. We don't pay for rez stones and we don't pay for deeds. 

Also when we came over we had dedicated crafters like Gumbo who sat in our cave with us equipping each player with a plate set/maul and horse gear/bardings. 

WU recently killed some TC and got drake and Almost scale. Current kingdoms aren't running off the server to sell, they're reusing, so gear is a cycle. 

Not that you'll listen to this nor is it really relevant to the thread as a whole.

Edited by Mclavin

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+1 
Why even pretend that Epic is alive? There is a group of JK and some scattered people on the homeservers that never contribute to any pvp whatsoever anyway.  
Face it the last 2 groups that was actively doing pvp (Rome and BL) are gone now, Rome has disbanded and BL i think might have one deed left with inactive players. 

Why not get a dev or 2 to focus on the pvp on one server and make it good instead of a little update ever 4 months? Epic been poop since forever, only pvp like last year has been around hota cause nobody cares to go roam on a map that's flatter then a pancake with no real points to hold or fight over.

Move the valrei thing and revoke it to what it used to be and then focus on ONE server and not 1 + a cluster. 
Only reason people play on homeservers on epic is because of the curve so turn the homeservers into freedom ones cause that is what they are more or less anyways.

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+1 Ascalon already been disbaned from elev epic & me not going bk Freedom life for me 

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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

The point is that a vocal minority of hardcore Epic PVPers ran off the rest of the population, one way or another, so that the vocal minority became the majority, and that's the process still being attempted in this thread by Mclavin and others.

our group did not run off 500+ people, lmao

 

its much much more likely that the bug riddled, underdeveloped PvP mechanics like the combat system, or conquest mechanics were the problem. Or maybe its main mechanic not even working until six months into the server, then completely broken, then patched up and immediately released to freedom. Or maybe, developers doing as little as possible to fix the problems for PvP?

 

you aren't bringing the server back with 10 people, if you think so, you are delusional.

 

1 hour ago, nicedreams said:

Main thing I hate about Chaos is money.  I feel people like Chaos, because they make money from creating a PMK and also from people buying gear with real life money.  Same with materials.  I was one of the ones that always complained about not being strong enough and on Epic I'm on a level playing field now.

 

Played Epic for couple months and got better gear, horses, enchants and all that.  I'd never be able to do that on Chaos without a credit card.  Don't need to buy an account and can just build your character quicker.

 

Chaos is one sided and always will be.  Epic is more even playing field.

 

Only if you play with braindeads.

 

Never spent a dime, always wore drake or scale and had rare/supreme tools. If you join a kingdom thats actually interested in playing the game, the odds are that you will get anything you want for free. Every single active TC member right now is in drake or scale with the exception of 4 or 5 people, and none of them had to purchase it. Admittedly 4 or 5 did, but they did not have to and did so after the fact. (They also get anything they lose replaced...)

 

We ran previous kingdoms the same way, when we were the underdogs.

 

Epic is literally just about the same as chaos, you just have so little players, theres nobody there to actually abuse whats broken with the game so you don't realize how far the experience gap is.

Edited by Prophetears

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I already pm Nappy about epic and told him to have a chat with his group cause everyone was disbanding deeds and moving to freedom to work off there 3x & his reply to me was.. We will break our jk group into 2 small groups & pvp vs each other we did that on WU.. my reply to that was gl 

I also have the chat logs to this 

Edited by Erin

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33 minutes ago, Prophetears said:

Every single active TC member right now is in drake or scale with the exception of 4 or 5 people, and none of them had to purchase it.

They backed a dump truck up and buried me in drake...

Under the crushing pile of hide I weakly uttered.. "But i'm not even sotg"

 

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I'm seriously waiting for ANY dev / PR opinions on the whole thing,

 

BTW I'm mainly a freedom player myself considering my playtime spent in PVE / PVP environments.

I went to Epic to try the PVP side of Wurm, I've never ever played on Chaos as it always felt silly to be attached to PVE lands, for various reasons.

I'm nothing against wiping Elevation and create a new PVP environment which is NOT connected to the PVE realms and not sharing the codebase with Freedom - as Chaos will always keep suffering from the issues of a shared codebase with the PVE cluster.

I'm happy to grind the sweat out of myself on PVE but for PVP the increased speed/skillgain is much more beneficial.

I would love to keep playing in Wurm PVP but at the current state I don't see myself enjoying Chaos.

One of the last worst decisions were the one way skill transfers...

Edited by Jaz

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1 hour ago, Erin said:

I already pm Nappy about epic and told him to have a chat with his group cause everyone was disbanding deeds and moving to freedom to work off there 3x & his reply to me was.. We will break our jk group into 2 small groups & pvp vs each other we did that on WU.. my reply to that was gl 

I also have the chat logs to this 

It's true that we had this conversation. Actually mentioned it to the core group members who were in TS just after it occurred so not sure why you would even consider it a big deal that the conversation happened.

 

Of course the "everyone was disbanding deeds" was a bit of an exaggeration as it turned out because not "everyone" has disbanded their deeds at this point. Still people on MRH, JKH, BLH and Elevation even today. Some deeds are gone and based on McLaven's comments a significant number of people turned their semi-retired status for Epic into permanently retired. Ok. Even JK has disbanded some deeds and allowed some premiums to lapse in support of the general goal of receiving some CC communication ( @Rolf@Retrograde@Budda )

 

As far as moving forward the only main options left to us at this point seem to be:

 

1) Leave epic like many but not all have

2) Stay on epic and figure out a way to make it work so people still have fun

3) Retire from Wurm for a while and observe from a distance

 

Where people play in the game is very much a personal choice, it's not subject to some herd mentality that instructs us how to spend our time and money. That's our choice. No one in JK or any other kingdom will face any negativity if they choose to go to Chaos. They will go with whatever help I can give them and well wishes. Seems to be a common refrain from others in JK as well.

 

The people who choose to make a go of it on Epic aren't villains to do so. There is no shame in their decision to try to take lemons and make lemonade. It's what they want to do. The interesting thing is that with the population thinned out perhaps this is the time when Epic could go through the most radical possible changes without anywhere near as much risk as previously. 

 

In my opinion the primary reason so many -1's have been placed in this suggestion thread is because it appears to try to remove a player's personal decision on where they play the game and replace it with an experience that is sub-par and very restrictive.  Force people to play the way you want is just a stronger drive to see more people and deeds leave the game because the 4th option that isn't listed above is to just leave Wurm for good. So many people have already taken this very popular option historically. The game gets more narrowly focused and people opt out. It's time to break the cycle if you want to see this change.

 

Modify the suggestion (or create a new one) that states that you would like PVP changes currently on Epic to also be available on Chaos and I will instantly +1 that suggestion.

 

Expecting anyone to +1 a suggestion that essentially forces them to play somewhere they don't want to means that I strongly encourage you not to hold your breath while waiting for me to give approval of that one. Very unlikely to ever happen.

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4 hours ago, Mclavin said:

i was on epic. Who's "you were" wtf you on about. Get off the thread until you make sense and stop spamming.


BACK THE THE ORIGINAL POINT PLX

 

More bullying, eh? You don't get to tell me to get off the thread. :P

 

At any rate, you've certainly demonstrated the "character" required to run off server population. You're pointing fingers everywhere except at yourself, where they should really be pointing.

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4 hours ago, Reylaark said:

To some extent, the benefit of having pvp and pve connected is allowing the pvp content to be sort of "end-game" material.

 

That's a good point, but it's also true on Epic. PvP and HotA are end-game content that anyone truly new to Epic will see only as a distant goal. Epic has a great deal of unique PvE content to offer while players are skilling up, and some players are going to prefer that more dangerous flavor of PvE and stay on the home servers.

 

From my perspective, Mclavin and his cronies are hardcore PvPers who respect no other style of play but their own, and now that they've squeezed all the endgame content they can out of Epic, and are bored, they want to finish the job of running off everyone on Epic who doesn't play like them.

 

Locusts. :(

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

 

More bullying, eh? You don't get to tell me to get off the thread. :P

 

At any rate, you've certainly demonstrated the "character" required to run off server population. You're pointing fingers everywhere except at yourself, where they should really be pointing.


i notice you can't answer a question and reffer to victim status. That's cool but i'll stop "bullying" and ignore any other reply you put to me, so pls don't quote :D

Edited by Mclavin

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@NappyCan you stop spitting nonsense about "semi" retired players when you didn't touch epic again prior to the skill system. ty

We had many full time players on epic. Epic not being a focus doesn't mean semi-retired, we logged in for various reasons/testings/feedbacks and some exclusively logged in for epic only. 
You don't get to speak on players activity when you wasn't even around to see it? I should just assume the only reason you're all now active is cause competition left and IF it were to come back you'd be nowhere to be seen, Again.

Edited by Mclavin

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3 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

@NappyCan you stop spitting nonsense about "semi" retired players when you didn't touch epic again prior to the skill system. ty

We had many full time players on epic. Epic not being a focus doesn't mean semi-retired, we logged in for various reasons/testings/feedbacks and some exclusively logged in for epic only. 
You don't get to speak on players activity when you wasn't even around to see it? I should just assume the only reason you're all now active is cause competition left and IF it were to come back you'd be nowhere to be seen, Again.

There is a big difference between full time, around the clock efforts to build a deed and occasional visits to have a weekly big fight with BL.

 

As far as being active we had people online every time you guys popped our deed alarms (four times I think) as well as the many, many, many, many more times when BL people dropped by. We also had a continuous presence on Elevation capping towers and having death tabs since Sandy Shores was deeded on Elevation. The reason you are unaware of the death tabs that popped is likely that you just weren't around to see them. We were.

 

Tell you what. I will stop talking about what I observed of your team if you also take your same advice and stop spouting off about JK and others on the server who you have no right to speak about.

 

Meanwhile enjoy your time on Chaos. We will continue to enjoy our time on Epic.

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13 minutes ago, Nappy said:

There is a big difference between full time, around the clock efforts to build a deed and occasional visits to have a weekly big fight with BL.


 

Quote

There is a big difference between full time, around the clock efforts to build a deed


Then once again, you clearly can't observe something if 1. you're not on epic and instead spawning towers on deso servers to stop progress and 2. not in my local/friends list/viewing my online time for Epic.

Which account did I play?

You need to go check the 3 deeds which were built between November and Feb. 

And yeah we popped JK deed alarms, all 6 logged in, most the time they didn't.

 

Quote

occasional visits to have a weekly big fight with BL.

It was every hota, whats weekly? 

 

Quote

The reason you are unaware of the death tabs that popped is likely that you just weren't around to see them. We were.

You mean when the 2 kingdoms as you rightfully said who were the ones Coming to you? Yeah they left, whats going on now? Oh right, your only other group is apparently same Kingdom JKH. Lol

e94f6add3b9678844d2c69f8d2306c03.png
https://gyazo.com/e94f6add3b9678844d2c69f8d2306c03
 

Quote

Tell you what. I will stop talking about what I observed of your team

You didn't observe our kingdom. This isn't deso 3 nappy, you aren't floating above clouds spawning towers to stop 1 kingdom. You wasn't here prior to the skill update, you wasn't in any action around the skill update and you started making a movement when kingdoms told you they were going to be disbanding. 

Enjoy the server, but nothing you cry about is relevant to this thread anymore.

Devs, focus the server that has players or lose them, it's pretty simple. Not seen 1 argument here outside of "but we got 11 people!!!!" 

Nobody is interested in waiting 2 years for a revival. Only nappy and his imaginary crew which still haven't posted that save epic thread. :)

Edited by Mclavin

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-1 was to all PvP till it is fixed...
      1. Pay to win Huge problem.
         a real fix to make more then 3 armors are viable

      2. more ways to play .. i'm sorry but if you want to play stay on deed and build. and grind. you can.
                                          be mobile and roaming around sever for fight. you can.

                                          All capitals should be 30plus people to raid even with no one online.

       3. fix all weapon damages's
                                   (huge axe not op at all)
       4. medications op or under-powered
       5. White light vs Black Light.

       6. Roaming hota

       7. No off deed building.  mining diging cuting paving ok

       8. I could go on and on....

 

I like epic better i can go pvp when i want and go pve when i want. just map sucks 4 severs people way to spreed out. way to flat

 

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