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Mclavin

Time to support one PVP server

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No but numbers speak, ask me for a chart of epics population decrease. If I was a dev and I read what you say I'd think you'd have 100 different people behind you, but infact it's just the same four people repeating the same sentiment.
If you want to go speak up for epic and make it clear, go make a thread and get all the people who play epic to make their opinion known, it isn't happening.

The numbers are now on chaos and many of them are looking to stay and invest and imo since a lot of players have left epic to go Freedom (and now chaos) then there needs to be a better focus on them after the Shambles on epic and the complete failure of any care to which any other paying customer would expect, i doubt the same history needs to be repeated, we don't need different server same attitude. 
Epic had it's focused years. Chaos for many has been left as a side line and benefits from whatever freedom directly gets. There is no specific "chaos" only updates. Why do you think epic deserves that if Chaos has the player base?

That should change. Players want it to change. Many call for a single united pvp server, many have called for chaos to be placed in the middle of Epic. Eitherway, the numbers are speaking and the disbands of deeds that houses many have happend.

It isn't short sighted to ask the devs to drop their efforts on epic and to support what the Majority want. This isn't a personalised attack on JK, nappy and his merry band of drop-a-deed men. It's about getting the support in the right place to keep players from bleeding further, if you think thats epic then not only are you short sighted but you're very biased. Just consider for 1 moment that  Rome and other players had more time and money invested on Epic than you and still could see it wasn't the place for Wurm PVP to regrow. I think that alone comes in it's own weight of worth. 

If you think it's short sighted because the eyes aren't set on epic, too bad imo. What's going to happen is no support/focus to neither and both die anyway.

The map being the size Chaos is isn't an issue because Chaos isn't flat. The map actually feels smaller than what the number says and with 6 kingdoms spread across the map it's not really an issue.

LOA in NW
Ebo North
Panda East
TC Central/South
AO/South
WU SW
VD West

And still room for expansions and other groups who wish to settle outside of the founded kingdoms. 

Having a server smaller doesn't mean more fun/action, actually limits your expansions and possibility more. Chaos has the terrain and size to support true pvp.

 

Edited by Mclavin
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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

Listening to a small group of vocal players is killing your game....

 

I'm not sure which group you think is small exactly, I don't know any exact numbers but I'm fairly sure the amount of players that have quit is far greater than the remaining population

 

49 minutes ago, Nappy said:

There are a number of factors which I believe have led to the consistent decline in both PVP and PVE in Wurm.

 

1) Aging demographic of the players. As players advance from their younger (possibly teenager years) their responsibilities increase (jobs, families, spouses etc) and their free time decreases

 

2) The Freedom grind is a killer, it sucks away valuable play time. While it might have been reasonable to dedicate consecutive 8+ hour days to Wurm as the people's free time reduces so too does their ability to play the game

 

To be fair, the general age of wurm players has always leaned towards middle aged, it has its share of young and retired but it isn't instant gratification enough to hold most younger gamers.

Your second point also doesn't hit home since Freedom has consistently always had a much higher population than any pvp server and they aren't rushed for time to meet any deadlines that a pvp server calls for.

I didn't make it through the wall much after that since the first two bad points were discouraging.

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I think we're all glossing over the fact that I, Grand Prince of JK, single-handedly won the Hunt of the Ancients last night.

 

Astride my mighty steed I rode valiantly into the savage wilderness, with naught but the axe in my hand and steel in my heart.

 

Neither troll nor scorpion nor endless searching could stay me from my righteous glory as the gods themselves proclaimed me the greatest warrior of all that were awake at 5 AM.

 

A monument was erected to my greatness, forever immortalizing my deeds in statue form.  My children's children's children shall gaze upon the dragon statue and know that within their veins courses the blood of a legend.

 

I mean, we don't have to focus on that.  Your topic's good too.  I guess.

 

Whatever. 

Edited by Wulvarik
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You're children will gaze upon the drahon statue and ask "has the population increased yet" and they'll be met with silence because, well nobody plays to tell them. 

You're raising children of the silenced.

Edited by Mclavin
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6 minutes ago, Wulvarik said:

I think we're all glossing over the fact that I, Grand Prince of JK, single-handedly won the Hunt of the Ancients last night.

 

Astride my mighty steed I rode valiantly into the savage wilderness, with naught but the axe in my hand and steel in my heart.

 

Neither troll nor scorpion nor endless searching could stay me from my righteous glory as the gods themselves proclaimed me the greatest warrior of all that were awake at 5 AM.

 

A monument was erected to my greatness, forever immortalizing my deeds in statue form.  My children's children's children shall gaze upon the drahon statue and know that within their veins courses the blood of a legend.

 

I mean, we don't have to focus on that.  Your topic's good too.  I guess.

 

Whatever. 

Looooool give this man a medal.

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1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

 

I didn't make it through the wall much after that since the first two bad points were discouraging.

Tis a pity then that you didn't take the time to even try to learn a different viewpoint.

 

The people who continue to play on Epic aren't just JK. There are still people in BL and in MR. JK is not just 3 people either, it's more like 20 on Elevation alone with more on Serenity.

 

Those who are in JK are also free to speak their minds.This isn't some concerted attempt to speak with one chorus of only one message. Instead it's an attempt to get different viewpoints out there so that all views can be considered.

 

The move to consolidate on Chaos at best gives the PVP game another year and forced consolidation likely gives you less then you hope anyway.

 

There are people, including me, who are done with playing full time on Freedom. Shut down an alternative to the slow grind from me in WO and frankly I walk along with my deed upkeeps and also my premiums. True I am only one person however I am not alone in my feelings on this.

 

So maybe you get a few last players to move. Worth the loss, doubtful.

 

The cluster itself can be run on a single physical server that costs about $120 CDN per month. The only thing that would make me revise that statement is if it turns out WO is running way less efficient code then WU. I've had collections of servers that run 3 x the full population of the Epic cluster at it's 1 year peak population without a problem. So CC shutting down servers isn't going to save much money either.

 

Finally software development needs at least two things to succeed. It needs some form of focused development. So far it doesn't appear that PVP is getting that focus and with even PVE populations dropping why do you suddenly think they are going to care about approximately 200 premiums (300 at best) in PVP when they worry about losing 3000 in PVE? 

 

The second thing needed is a clear road map and a plan with as many reasonable potential forks as possible to allow them to try to capture a successful way out of the mess they are in. They have historical data that shows the current path leads to a diminishing population. If they continue to focus on a very small subset of hardcore PVPers to the detriment to the much bigger potential non-hardcore PVP population then the PVP and indeed overall WO population will never start going up again.

 

If I was going to name a third thing, they need to continue to have a clear window of opportunity that keeps other competing games from stealing what little population they still have. Games like Life is Feudal, while different, have the potential to take PVP down to it's lowest point and that point could easily be beyond the point of no return.

 

The last thing that has saved some games in the past is an engaged player community, a group of people who feel like they are part of the solution and indeed do things to help turn the game around when it's edges are rough and that little bit of help can make a real difference for people not quite sure if they should commit to what might be a failing game. Right now player's questions remain unanswered, and some groups even actively demonstrate in political ways to try to be heard. These are not the signs of a healthy and extremely positive community engagement.

 

TLDR: Forcing people to Chaos, limiting development to one area, further reducing player choice, negative community engagement  - None of these things will turn the game around. A strong pivot is needed and it has to be one headed in the right direction otherwise it's just a case of milking the cow until everything finally dries up.

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Ele: 3 MRh: 4 JKh: 8 BLh: 4

 

Quote

, limiting development to one area, further reducing player choice, negative community engagement  - None of these things will turn the game around.


If you honestly believe that devs should continue to Focus the 1 pvp cluster where there is nobody playing then you're just being naive. 
let me emphasise that epic gets epic specific updates but you think chaos doesn't deserve the same? 


You're saying the devs shouldn't focus one server? Welcome to the thread nappy, since I last saw wasn't Epic updates specifically to Epic only? So whats the difference here?
Any update on Chaos would forcefully bleed over to Epic - But the way the devs are going forward = Epic updates stay on epic. You're living on the 1 server mentality, not us.

Those updates should just be geared towards chaos instead - Ofc they would bleed over on epic. But as we all know, nobody will really be around to enjoy that.

If you think the next 20 updates will make epic unique that players drop investment Again, then ye it isn't going to happen. 

Your cluster won't exist if it does happen cause it will be a full reset. At that point we aren't talking epic anymore anyway :P


 

Edited by Mclavin

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2 hours ago, SmeJack said:

 

I'm not sure which group you think is small exactly, I don't know any exact numbers but I'm fairly sure the amount of players that have quit is far greater than the remaining population

 

But... that's his point.

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2 hours ago, Mclavin said:

It isn't short sighted to ask the devs to drop their efforts on epic and to support what the Majority want.

 

In short, not only are you taking your marbles home because you're not happy, but you want to take everyone else's, too. That's functional bullyism, and I'm against it.

Edited by Roccandil

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Read above, i think theres only one side being selfish here. Thats the ones asking for epic specific updates on the server only they play??

 and don't confuse my title with them having to pick, it is time the devs supported one server, because right now they don't support any. It only makes sense to start supporting the one which has the active population and isn't looking for a reset. And unfortunatly if the players on chaos (you know the ones who walked away from the shambles you like to call epic) aren't given support/updates/pvp focused changes then they aren't walking back to epic, they're walking away from the game. You can think that's a small deal but groups that are on chaos make deso3 go from 10 to most populated server just through word of mouth. 

Same will be for epic, if we decide it's worth going back epic will probably get a decent kick start. 
But the groups have decided it isnt and thus you're left with a dead server that equals to what MRH use to be ALONE on a quiet day.
 

Edited by Mclavin

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2 hours ago, Mclavin said:

You're children will gaze upon the drahon statue and ask "has the population increased yet" and they'll be met with silence because, well nobody plays to tell them. 

You're raising children of the silenced.

 

Irrelevant. If he wants to play on Epic, and has fun doing so, who are you to tell him he's wrong?

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Scrap Epic, scrap Player Gods (potentially), and introduce Epic's armour mechanics onto Chaos.

 

I'd even say a potential map reset for Chaos, but only if we can vote on which map out of a selection of 5 to play on. :D

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4 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Ele: 3 MRh: 4 JKh: 8 BLh: 4

For someone who is so, so smart when it comes to playing the game aggressively, setting the stage for forcing the game in a certain desired direction etc you are unfortunately and apparently not quite up to speed when it comes to representing facts in a clear and honest way.

 

First of all CC knows the real numbers of active subs on Epic, they don't need us.

 

However apparently you need a reality check. Active mains in JK on Elevation include at least the following (no alts are included although to CC alts are also mains):

 

Allenfulblade

Jaz

Annyil

Wulvarik

Nerd

Netsky

Hamtronics

Gamba

Thora

Fatynoob

Augustin

Wuulthrad

BDCKoolaid

Bornias

 

The numbers listed here are not complete, I am forgetting people and I am also not including people outside our main alliance. If we include our alts the numbers shown at least triple.

 

However the numbers are largely irrelevant anyway. The real question is how much is saved by removing the Epic cluster compared to keeping it? Read my other post for that.

 

Not everyone wants to play the game the way you want us to McLaven, and frankly nothing you do will force us to do so. Feel free to speak for yourself, let others speak for themselves.

 

You also mentioned JK farming HOTA. Until a week ago we weren't even at HOTA because we had bigger priorities like building a team, a community and a kingdom. We had a plan to reach HOTA which we executed successfully over the last month.

 

Farming HOTA is a nice option, we would rather fight for it though since the fight is where the fun really is. 

 

It's unfortunate others have chosen to leave Epic. It's your free decision to do so and indeed in some cases we have extended a non-violent helping hand to make it as easy for you as we could.  In other words we accepted your choice

 

Now extend the same to us and allow us the same benefit of enjoying our time on Epic without the constant attempts to push us to somewhere that we don't want to be.

 

You want to play on Chaos, fine, go, have fun and you have our blessings.

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1 minute ago, Roccandil said:

 

Irrelevant. If he wants to play on Epic, and has fun doing so, who are you to tell him he's wrong?


Can you stop quoting the irrelevant stuff then

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4 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Read above, i think theres only one side being selfish here. Thats the ones asking for epic specific updates :)

 

Selfish? The devs have repeatedly affirmed Epic's existence, people have spent money, time, and effort based on that trust, but you and your kind pull up stakes and immediately expect the devs and everyone else to shut down and leave Epic on your say so?

 

I suspect the forum rules forbid me from saying what I really think about you.

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1 minute ago, Roccandil said:

 

Selfish? The devs have repeatedly affirmed Epic's existence, people have spent money, time, and effort based on that trust, but you and your kind pull up stakes and immediately expect the devs and everyone else to shut down and leave Epic on your say so?

 

I suspect the forum rules forbid me from saying what I really think about you.


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https://gyazo.com/f4ef63de0f0b21b142f1535d8be2cc42

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3 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Read above, i think theres only one side being selfish here. Thats the ones asking for epic specific updates on the server only they play??

It is time the devs supported one server, because right now they don't support any. It only makes sense to start supporting the one which has the active population and isn't looking for a reset. 
 

Where did you get the idea that anyone is asking for anything Epic specific other then a request for clarity on what the long term plan is for Epic so that people can commit to the cluster and have fun?

 

Now on the other side we have an active group trying to take away the place where people are having some fun. They claim it makes sense for a number of easily disputed and overthrown reasons that frankly matter very little towards keeping one or the other. In reality they just want to further dominate the development path etc with what they want done/changed.

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3 minutes ago, Nappy said:

The numbers listed here are not complete, I am forgetting people and I am also not including people outside our main alliance. If we include our alts the numbers shown at least triple.

 

I won't name names, but I can also confirm quite a few regular players in my JKH alliance.

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who's asking for the continuation of epic specific updates? You. By saying devs shouldn't focus on Chaos with their new updates. Nobody said keep them off Epic, they can bleed to epic.

Their current plan is to make epic updates epic only. Thats 1 server being worked on, nappy doesn't want that. -1

Edited by Mclavin

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Just now, Mclavin said:

who's asking for the continuation of epic specific updates? 

This could be a reference to myself and others who have simply asked the developers to share their roadmap with us so that we can continue to feel good about being part of Epic.

 

However note it's nothing more then asking for confirmation that the cluster would continue. We haven't asked for specific things that wreck it for other players or kingdoms. In fact our requests have always been made in a kingdom neutral way for exactly that reason.

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1 minute ago, Nappy said:

This could be a reference to myself and others who have simply asked the developers to share their roadmap with us so that we can continue to feel good about being part of Epic.

 

However note it's nothing more then asking for confirmation that the cluster would continue. We haven't asked for specific things that wreck it for other players or kingdoms. In fact our requests have always been made in a kingdom neutral way for exactly that reason.


Just gonna quote it here again cause i edited my top reply.

 

Quote

who's asking for the continuation of epic specific updates? You. By saying devs shouldn't focus on Chaos with their new updates. Nobody said keep them off Epic, they can bleed to epic.

Their current plan is to make epic updates epic only. Thats 1 server being worked on, nappy doesn't want that. -1

Surely it makes more sense to make any updates intended for epic - To chaos instead???? by this it means both servers would essentially get updated, not 1. The epic focus = Epic only.

 

Edited by Mclavin

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1 minute ago, Mclavin said:

who's asking for the continuation of epic specific updates? 

 

As far as I can see, you're the one who keeps bringing that up. I simply expect the developers to continue to support Epic, since every indication from them has been that they will.

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1 minute ago, Roccandil said:

 

As far as I can see, you're the one who keeps bringing that up. I simply expect the developers to continue to support Epic, since every indication from them has been that they will.

Right so you expect them to support Epic but we can't get that same support focused towards Chaos? THE SERVER WITH THE POPULATION Hello? Why are you even replying at this point. You are asking for 1 sided updates my friend and I'm selfish?

:D

Edited by Mclavin

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Epic isn't coming back, regardless of it receiving developer support or not, especially developer support at wurms rate. (6mo between any communication about pvp updates.)

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