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gabars

Wurm freight board

Your opinion  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you consider using it?

    • I'd like to use it to get stuff delivered.
      10
    • I'd like to deliver stuff.
      10
    • I don't plan to, but I have nothing against it.
      13
    • No way.
      5
  2. 2. How would you feel about the existence of such a website?

    • I'd be thrilled.
      15
    • I wouldn't really care.
      16
    • I hope it never sees the light of day.
      3
  3. 3. What kind of device would you rather use to access the website?

    • PC.
      19
    • Phone / tablet.
      4
    • I won't use it.
      14


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Hey all. Some of you might remember me as the guy behind southwindmarket.com. It was a fun little project of mine and it had a good run.

Lately I've had another idea that's been stewing in my head. I'd like to make a freight board for Wurm Online, where buyers and sellers can find someone to handle the delivery part. Wagoners seem nice but they come at a pretty high price and have their limitations.

 

How would that work?

Keep in mind I'm still at the brainstorming stage, and very open to suggestions.

The sale part would happen as it already does: seller advertises his goods in trade chat/forums/etc. buyer contacts seller, you know the rest. Seller isn't very interested in delivering, buyer isn't very interested in picking it up, so one of them creates an entry on the load board (website) and "invites" the other party. Now they both enter their location (interactive maps?) and whoever pays for the shipping sets the amount he's offering, someone sees it, thinks it's a fair price and submits his interest

But what if we're not all online at the same time?

Well, I'd like to recommend this as standard practice: Seller puts the crates in a purpose-built building or boat (corbita?), sets permissions for shipper to embark as passenger and access hold (or equivalent for building, as long as he can take the stuff) and buyer sets the same permissions on his building or boat. Shipper gets to seller's place, loads the crates in his boat, travels to buyer's place and transfers them to his ship). Job done.

How would the payment happen?

It's up to you, either leave the money in one of the boats/buildings, or send a woodscrap when you've delivered the goods.

And why would I trust the other parties involved?

Well, trust and reputation have a big role in Wurm Online. I was thinking I'd make a reputation system (open to suggestions on that, I was thinking of a simple satisfaction rating in %) and a bio. If you're just starting out, put a link to your Wurm profile page and get people you know to vouch for you. Pretending you're someone else wouldn't work, as the permissions would be set for the person you're pretending to be.

And what if I get ripped off?

I'd actually like to have a chat with GMs about that. It'd be really cool if they'd agree to have one or more moderator accounts on the website to see proof of recent activity and assist players the same way they would assist if it had all been done in-game (I assume that's why "report theft" is green in /support?)

What's in it for you?

A fun project to work on. I don't plan to make any money out of it whatsoever. We'll see how much it costs (hosting / SSL certificate / domain name), I might put a donation button somewhere, but you'll never have to pay a dime.

It's also my own way of trying to give back to the Wurm Online community. I think it would help the economy and make it easier to transport goods in Wurm for a living. I'm sure it would help new players get started with trading too.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you guys think. I'm open to all questions and suggestions. Happy Wurming!

 

On a side note: Can I use the server maps from the game? The terms of service are a little vague "CodeClub approves of sharing User Generated Material based on video, music, sound or screenshots from our game Wurm Online." I mean, I could take a screenshot of the server maps, but it wouldn't really be "user generated".

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I created something similar a few years ago, but was shot down with negative comments, and packed it up.

 

I hope this works out, would be neat to see how competitive people get on prices hehehe.

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It's a cool idea, but I'm not sure how much use a(nother) third party app will get.  Maybe see if you could integrate it into an existing system (WA maybe)?

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I love it! Starting up a small scale stoneworks to make a lil profit, and this will help greatly.

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add in history tracking of people who ship stuff and id be up for using it even if its just a list of rows that say when and how often someone took on a job and nothing else

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10 hours ago, Wonka said:

It's a cool idea, but I'm not sure how much use a(nother) third party app will get.  Maybe see if you could integrate it into an existing system (WA maybe)?

Not an app, a website. By nature, the service I want to offer needs to be online. I hope signing up to another website won't put too many people off, but there's no way around it, and IMO it'll be worth it.

 

3 hours ago, wipeout said:

add in history tracking of people who ship stuff and id be up for using it even if its just a list of rows that say when and how often someone took on a job and nothing else

Would something like "this person has made x deliveries, y% clients satisfied" do the job?

Edited by gabars
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1 hour ago, gabars said:

Not an app, a website. By nature, the service I want to offer needs to be online. I hope signing up to another website won't put too many people off, but there's no way around it, and IMO it'll be worth it.

 

Would something like "this person has made x deliveries, y% clients satisfied" do the job?

To be honest, requiring registration will kill your project. With the low playerbase Wurm has, you will already be limiting your playerbase on who will be enrolling. Adding to that other limiting factors such as trust, lazyness and redundancy, people will just go to the forums and post classifieds. 

 

If you must absolutely require registration, then make only the hired person register to maintain their ads.

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51 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

If you must absolutely require registration, then make only the hired person register to maintain their ads.

That would be even worse. The amount of work required from the buyer and seller to coordinate with the shipper without having accounts would be worse than doing it on the forums. The whole point is to make it easier, put in a little work up front and make your life easier in the long run.

 

I am looking into allowing login from other platforms such as Google and Microsoft, maybe Facebook. Of course it would be awesome to link with the Wurm Forums ;)  but I don't think that's gonna happen.

 

Anyway, once I get a working prototype running I might post a link to a demo where anyone could log in with a dummy account and check things out, see why it's worth it ;).

 

And BTW, it's the other way around. Some people already advertise their shipping services on the forums, and that's all right. It'd be a little like real life, companies post their shipping needs and carriers take the most appropriate loads for them.

Imagine you live in Independence, you're hauling some stuff from there to Exodus, you open the freight board, find a load that needs to go from Exodus to Independence, bring that back. Boom, you've just monetized your return trip. That's what freight boards are mostly used for IRL, return trips (by carriers, anyway. Owner operators might use them all the time).

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Echoing Angelklaine, requiring registration will be a bar to adoption.  Like all service portals, you need a certain critical mass otherwise it withers and dies - maybe freight hauling will be the killer application that overcomes the apathy inertia, but I'm not convinced.  Also, many folks don't have Google/Facebook accounts, or prefer not to link them to random third-party sites (especially given the current kerfuffle over FB data leakage), so I doubt that really makes a lot of difference.

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I was under the impression that you were wanting to start up a shipping business.  Now it is seeming like you aren't doing that but starting a website for people doing shipping.  Perhaps I am misunderstanding this or something.  But I think that if you want the most business, it will need to be done through the forums.  

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I have no intention of starting a shipping business myself. I just want to make a platform better suited to handle this kind of thing than a forum. It wouldn't be just a list of ads either. The detailed process would be something like this:

  1. Buyer and seller meet through current means (forum, trade chat, etc.)
  2. Seller starts the transaction on the freight board and choose to either make it available for anyone or send it directly to a specific shipper, which they might find on the directory, and sets an offered price.
  3. Buyer is notified that a request has been made to ship something to him. He accepts and sets his location and additional details like the name of the ship or building he wants the crates delivered in (will autofill after 1st time).
  4. At that point, either the specific shipper is notified of the request, or the offer is published on the freight board.
  5. If no shipper has been specified, anyone may accept the offer or send counter offers.
  6. All parties agree. At this point, the transaction is removed from the "available loads" section, if it ever was.
  7. Shipper hauls the items, then sets the load as delivered (1 click).
  8. Buyer is notified, goes check. If it's all there, he sets the load as received.
  9. Seller is notified, requests his money if it wasn't prepaid. Closes the transaction.

It looks complicated, but keep in mind this pretty much the same process that happens on the forums and in-game, but organized and automated. It'd be a lot more efficient than using the forums all the way. In-game chat would obviously still be faster, but trade chat depends on the right people being online at the right time, and it doesn't automate your bookkeeping ;).

 

Since a picture is worth a thousand words:

Spoiler

(Early draft, the "at A1" section will be most likely be replaced by a map of the chosen server on which you can click to indicate your location)

6gh0qx.png

 

Edited by gabars
Forgot to finish a sentence
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On 3/27/2018 at 1:14 PM, gabars said:

Not an app, a website. By nature, the service I want to offer needs to be online. I hope signing up to another website won't put too many people off, but there's no way around it, and IMO it'll be worth it.

 

Would something like "this person has made x deliveries, y% clients satisfied" do the job?

pretty much yes as showing how active and how well they do is a great indicator on if to use their service or not

also on the topic of logins

why not make it so that every session has a unique url that can be shared with 2 codes created next to the job being posted up on the site
1 for the buyer
1 for the seller

that way you as the seller give out the link and code to the buyer and both of you can use the code to log in and check up on it without requiring an account(if the person doesnt want to create an account) that way "guests" can still use your platform next to people who do want to register

Edited by wipeout
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Great idea! Not sure how feasable it is but I'll definitely look into it.

 

What if instead of that the accounts were minimalistic? Sign up would require only the bare minimum (like only username and password, no private info whatsoever) and then, if you like, you can put your e-mail for password recovery and optional notifications.

 

Not exactly "guests" but if it's good enough it'd be a whole lot easier for me.

 

Or I could make burner accounts: buyer sends url. Seller still has to set a password (again simple as possible, register in less than a minute) and it's deleted as soon as the transaction is complete.

 

Let me know what you guys think.

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bare min no loads of info just username password+optional email and optional ingame name would also work well i think

so long as the ones doing the shipping do require some more info to be put in

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The biggest issue I see is the lack of 3rd party transportation services demand currently. Most orders are filled by either the seller delivering or the buyer picking up. There is not many other shippers out there and neither of these two would need to use your service.

 

In the case of shippers, the reason the profession is not so widespread is because shipping is simply not worth it. Most sellers deliver for free to most coastal areas with a 5+ silver purchase, and sailing to center Xanadu for 50c is just not a thing, so shippers have to compete against that. Same server shipping can now be done by using Wagoneers, and thoss who are not connected simply pick up.

 

I fear you will end up making a website that will see very little use. I am hoping I am mistaken, and look forward to trying it out, loving sailing myself. If I can get paid to do it, even better.

 

Best of luck bud.

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4 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

The biggest issue I see is the lack of 3rd party transportation services demand currently. Most orders are filled by either the seller delivering or the buyer picking up. There is not many other shippers out there and neither of these two would need to use your service.

 

In the case of shippers, the reason the profession is not so widespread is because shipping is simply not worth it. Most sellers deliver for free to most coastal areas with a 5+ silver purchase, and sailing to center Xanadu for 50c is just not a thing, so shippers have to compete against that. Same server shipping can now be done by using Wagoneers, and thoss who are not connected simply pick up.

 

I fear you will end up making a website that will see very little use. I am hoping I am mistaken, and look forward to trying it out, loving sailing myself. If I can get paid to do it, even better.

 

Best of luck bud.

new players could do the shipping, they're always looking for work imho - all you need to do is lock the knarr contents to the customer/owner only so they can unload

 

23 mind logic doesn't take long. the new person can command only.

Edited by Niki

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3 minutes ago, Niki said:

new players could do the shipping, they're always looking for work imho - all you need to do is lock the knarr contents to the customer/owner only so they can unload

 

23 mind logic doesn't take long. the new person can command only.

Sail to any west border, plot course to Chaos, turn around and hit Chaos east border. You are now on Deliverance with a brand new Knarr full of loot and stuff for you to keep.

 

Worst thing you can do is give command of your boat to some random new player. Bad idea.

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Just now, Angelklaine said:

Sail to any west border, plot course to Chaos, turn around and hit Chaos east border. You are now on Deliverance with a brand new Knarr full of loot and stuff for you to keep.

 

Worst thing you can do is give command of your boat to some random new player. Bad idea.

good point, freedom needs some knarr mechanics to be added to prevent grand theft boat i guess still.

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5 minutes ago, Niki said:

good point, freedom needs some knarr mechanics to be added to prevent grand theft boat i guess still.

They already have them. Its called "dont give permissions to your stuff to some random newbie."

Edited by Angelklaine
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11 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

They already have them. Its called "dont give permissions to your stuff to some random newbie."

 

I like the sound of having newer players do the shipping but Angelklaine, you do have a point. Maybe the new players could have a deposit on their shipment?If they do not deliver it, they don't get the money back, if they do, they get it back fine. The amount would be round' 50% goods value of what they are transporting or maybe just a set price such as 3s.

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Perhaps I'm the jaded one but I am still trying to figure out what this guy is going to get out of this.  He isn't asking for money to set up a website which most likely will cost real money.  He isn't asking for anything for his time which is worth something.  He isn't planning on doing any of the shipping so he will make nothing off what he is doing.  So why?  What is he gaining off all this?

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2 hours ago, Pashka said:

Perhaps I'm the jaded one but I am still trying to figure out what this guy is going to get out of this.  He isn't asking for money to set up a website which most likely will cost real money.  He isn't asking for anything for his time which is worth something.  He isn't planning on doing any of the shipping so he will make nothing off what he is doing.  So why?  What is he gaining off all this?

He likes making websites. Its what he does. Why do we play wurm, and pay for it? Besides,if you already own the website, the overhead is insignificant.

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I would probably never use the service myself to deliver things.  I'd pick up loads to deliver if I happened to be going that way anyway.

 

I don't believe the security issue can be solved at this time so that is the number one problem I see.  I believe, a change in game mechanics is required such that cargo can never be stolen and can always be tracked to its current location with GM support to get it back if needed.

 

As a general thing, I'd love to see Wurm properly support secure third party player based movement of goods.

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9 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

He likes making websites. Its what he does. Why do we play wurm, and pay for it? Besides,if you already own the website, the overhead is insignificant.

 

A fun project to work on. I don't plan to make any money out of it whatsoever. We'll see how much it costs (hosting / SSL certificate / domain name), I might put a donation button somewhere, but you'll never have to pay a dime.

 

From his first post.  This makes it sound like he doesn't own the site yet but would be having to purchase it.  Now I know some folks just get a tickle and do things for fun.  But when someone is asking for information on the super highway and is having to pay for the privilege of asking for this information.  It generally isn't for tickles.  As I said.  I'm a jaded old person that is sitting and watching the fallout from facebook and all the information they are able to gather from what you like/share etc.  Just curious on the why he is doing this and what he will be getting out of it.

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