Interactive map

[Yiraia 427]

 

3 hours ago, nicedreams said:

-1

 

You'll get used to it.  Frustrating as hell at first and I've personally wasted lots of time turning the wrong corner, but once you get used to the game and/or area it's a great feature and glad no mark on the map.  Be nice to have more navigation tools though, like star constellations we can track or something.

so keep the current map to frustrate new players. Thumbs Up

 

3 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

There is no excuse to be so lost you can't find your way anywhere.

 

1 - you can use a compass

 

2 - there are community maps

 

3 - highways with waystones all over the place now

 

4 - can also use a dioptra if you really stumped, they are light weight

 

5 - ask for help in freedom

 

Pay attention to your surroundings and you will never get lost in the first place know the land marks.

 

A part of wurm is the adventure of figuring things out, a interactive map removes that.

 

1- The compass requires a player to stand still for a long time. Not handy for a new player chased by a hell hound.

2- Why should you -1 because he can open his browser and have to use 2 windows to play the game?

3- Thats one of the best points I have seen, still does not help in all scenerios though.

4- Yes, ask the new player to pull out a dioptra

5- The help will probably just look at the community map you mentioned in reason 2.

 

I don't see the satisfaction you get from going around in gear that overpowers PvE creatures and fast hell horses for your adventure. If the fun from the adventure is seeing new places then the interactive map does not remove that.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

I think the only thing to frustrate new players is your constant whining about how this game needs to be more like wow.

[gorgian 178]

I also like more of a challenge so -1 to livemap. 

 

P.s.I'm up for mobs getting a buff. "Let's make mobs great again"  

[Yiraia 427]

5 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

I think the only thing to frustrate new players is your constant whining about how this game needs to be more like wow.

I don't get it  

[Alkhadias 548]

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

 

so keep the current map to frustrate new players. Thumbs Up

 

 

1- The compass requires a player to stand still for a long time. Not handy for a new player chased by a hell hound.

2- Why should you -1 because he can open his browser and have to use 2 windows to play the game?

3- Thats one of the best points I have seen, still does not help in all scenerios though.

4- Yes, ask the new player to pull out a dioptra

5- The help will probably just look at the community map you mentioned in reason 2.

 

I don't see the satisfaction you get from going around in gear that overpowers PvE creatures and fast hell horses for your adventure. If the fun from the adventure is seeing new places then the interactive map does not remove that.

Yeah, we can do everything easy "because of new players". If new players can't find themselves in this game, maybe it's not the game for them. This is Wurm, these are Wurm's rules, Wurm's specific things. If you can't handle it, that's your problem. This isn't really a problem. It's not technical issue, that occurs and bother every player. It bothers a few, a few that can't get along with this specific system and it's rules. If you play a game, you're not in position to change rules, because they too harsh for you. You accept it, you try it, and you go on or you fall out. I'm impressed how people can't accept simple rules. Of course, this is suggestion thread, and this is another suggestion only. There's nothing wrong with, however Wurm alwasy been a harsh game. This is one of the, if not the biggest specific thing and ideology behind it. If we will continu to changing it, Wurm become nothing more than other games. In fact will be severly crippled compared to them, it'll lose it's uniqueness. 

You know what? I'm pretty bad at soccer. I tried it, i was giving my best, yet I was still weak. I couldn't get it. So i stoped playing and found another things. But according to topics like that, I should make a statment about changing game's rules and enviroment. Let's say, court is too big! Let's make it smaller! Not everyone is equally fast, not everyone has equal condition, that's not fair! Let's make it twice as small, so players with worse condition or slower than other will have more chances, and those with better stuff will get easier life as well! Double win!... is it?
... No. 

I'm also pretty weak in PUBG for example. I'm trying to play PUBG, but i just can't get it, i don't feel it. Animations are pretty weird, movement is just a meh to me. I can't, I don't know how, I'm just a lame PUBG player. So what? Am I in position to demand changes, because i just can't learn myself? Answer is: no. Pubg movement and mechanics are as they are. I can go along with them, learn it or i can still loosing every PVP. And also i can give my very, very best, I can put hours, days, months in trying to learn this game.... and i can still be lame. And it's only my problem, and i can't demand anything to make this game easier for me, as long as there are good players, that have no issues with it. If someone can, so i should too. If i can't, that mean that I'm in some ways, weaker or worse. And I'm accepting it or trying to improve. 

When i started a game I didn't use community map. Also when i arrived on fresh and new Xanadu, I also didn't use any community map. Only things i had were my map, compass and landmarks around. More or less correct. There was no roads, literally any roads, no highways. To get back to my home at o8 from Linton i had to walk literally through endless forests full of mobs that i couldn't really fight (This part of Xanadu was pretty dangerous back then). Forest from steps of Linton, without any, any clean areas beside one steppe. I could do that. First time it took me like 4 hours. But on second and third run i remembered my way good enough to shorten this time to 30-40 minutes. I used my abbilities to do so, like for example packing dirts to make landmarks on my own. Then, few weeks, maybe months later, road finally was built. On the sea? Same thing, it's even easier. I was making dozens, hundreds of deliveries, almost everytime to a new places, new deeds. All I knew was "My deed is called XYZ and is located somewhere around m-n 9-10" Without community map.

And finally, I still don't use community map. I spent weeks, months traveling around Xanadu and all other servers, to get better idea about deed locations, old or upcoming roads, shortcuts. I was getting by land everywhere, when most of folks was talking that "I need a boat to get there". Even now i can go anywhere, just give me a deed name and ingame map grid. Or even wihout grid, just tell me how far is your deed from nearest starter town, in which direction and what you see within 5-10 minutes range around your place. 

Maybe it's not funny for you to get lost in game or find yourself in dangerous situation. Maybe it's not. But not everything has to be fun for you. There's so much stuff in the game, and so many different players, that it's impossible to make everything fun to everyone. There are things that you or I like, and things we're not. We have to accept it, and sometimes understand that something might be too difficult or too unenjoyable for us. 

[Yiraia 427]

1 hour ago, Alkhadias said:

Yeah, we can do everything easy "because of new players". If new players can't find themselves in this game, maybe it's not the game for them. This is Wurm, these are Wurm's rules, Wurm's specific things. If you can't handle it, that's your problem. This isn't really a problem. It's not technical issue, that occurs and bother every player. It bothers a few, a few that can't get along with this specific system and it's rules.

Its not just easy-ness, its just how cruddy the map is to begin with. Besides there are plenty of suggestions to remedy some in game mechanics that people find annoying. There is also a bunch of information that is not revealed in the game, and is time/money consuming so people decide to resort to code. Infact, you were one of those people that decided to go to find info outside of the game by asking in the wurm datamining thread 

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/142401-wu-datamining/&page=8

On 06/06/2017 at 3:01 AM, Alkhadias said:

Is there some detailed info on improving imbues? How's the difference between hammer with 10 and 100 for example AS imbue?

 

Also I wanna know if multiple imbues works on single tools. For example WS, BS and AS imbues on a hammer or LW and carpentry on mallet?

 I get that you don't use community maps and thats cool, you stuck to the cruddy map and relied on that small amount of info and had fun. However you couldnt stick with the small amount of info that imbues had to offer and decided to go ask a person who looked in WU code. Wouldn't it have been nicer if you didn't have to go into the code in order to figure stuff like that out? Bet it would be nicer if a player could load up a map in the game that functions as well as the community maps. Not even the community maps, at least the map dumps that show much more information.

 

And plenty of people use the community maps, you see people using it frequently when they talk about location in the public chats and the amount of views on that profile is massive when all you have to do is download or bookmark the image.

 

1 hour ago, Alkhadias said:

You know what? I'm pretty bad at soccer. I tried it, i was giving my best, yet I was still weak. I couldn't get it. So i stoped playing and found another things. But according to topics like that, I should make a statment about changing game's rules and enviroment. Let's say, court is too big! Let's make it smaller! Not everyone is equally fast, not everyone has equal condition, that's not fair! Let's make it twice as small, so players with worse condition or slower than other will have more chances, and those with better stuff will get easier life as well! Double win!... is it?
... No. 

So some people don't want to spend hours botanizing in order to be skilled enough for high quality woad. Does that mean offering woad planters is a bad idea and should not be suggested? A lot of wurmians +1 that one. I see your soccer analogy talk about only 1 person having an issue with soccer and suggesting to change the rules, but many people find that the map does not offer enough information. The only thing is that enough people can tolerate opening another window to look at the map, switching windows while on their journey.

 

1 hour ago, Alkhadias said:

I'm also pretty weak in PUBG for example. I'm trying to play PUBG, but i just can't get it, i don't feel it. Animations are pretty weird, movement is just a meh to me. I can't, I don't know how, I'm just a lame PUBG player. So what? Am I in position to demand changes, because i just can't learn myself? Answer is: no. Pubg movement and mechanics are as they are. I can go along with them, learn it or i can still loosing every PVP. And also i can give my very, very best, I can put hours, days, months in trying to learn this game.... and i can still be lame. And it's only my problem, and i can't demand anything to make this game easier for me, as long as there are good players, that have no issues with it. If someone can, so i should too. If i can't, that mean that I'm in some ways, weaker or worse. And I'm accepting it or trying to improve. 

No, you are not in a position to demand changes because you dislike a huge portion of the game. This person liked the game enough to make an account on the forums and suggest buffing the map. He didn't come here saying "The crafting sucks, the rain goes in my buildings, the mobs run then stop then run repeatedly. The least you can do is make my map work" He only came here with a suggestion to make the map better because the rest of the game is quite enjoyable. And just saying, if somebody can do something in a game, doesnt mean everybody else should too.

 

1 hour ago, Alkhadias said:

There's nothing wrong with, however Wurm alwasy been a harsh game. This is one of the, if not the biggest specific thing and ideology behind it.

The only harsh thing on older players is fighting uniques with limited amount of people, and the amount of time it takes massive structures. Issues with food, armor/weapons, tools, enchants, drinks, etc are not evident with decent players... 1 farmer can feed way more than the average village in wurm, and players who are alone can have infinite food that does not rot in food storage bins. So no harshness there. Winter is only harsh on your eyes and sometimes makes roads hard to see (oh and beehives don't work right?, but meh, just beehives). Starving to death is not even an option in the game, Rather its starving to boredom because of how long it takes to get stamina back. People can just drink the sea water and lake water without any worry of disease. Tools don't even break! The harshness I feel in the game is in the timers. Whenever I'm on a journey in a cart, If i get lost I just head in one direction to reach the shore, find a road, then go home from that road. Its possible I take routes that are much longer, but it would be much nicer to make it home quicker with something in game. The extra time spent on the road isn't really ever enjoyable. Its basically an advanced "loading screen" of me waiting to get home. Nothing harsh, just tedious. even more tedious when sailing against the wind trying to pick up a delivery.

 

3 hours ago, gorgian said:

I'm up for mobs getting a buff. "Let's make mobs great again"  

+1

[Amadee 1,543]

Well, I still haven't seen a valid reason why having it as an option, that people can choose to use (or not use), would do any harm to the game or any harm to those who prefer not to use it.

 

Seems to me to be a simple case of being overly concerned with what others are doing.  Honestly, if someone enjoys not having an interactive map, that's fine. Simply don't turn on the option. 

 

What your neighbor (or someone on the other side of the server) is doing should be of no concern to you unless it's impacting your play somehow.  I don't see where that applies to this particular suggestion.  Obviously it's not something that should be on the pvp servers.  If it's pve only, I see no reason why it should bother anyone that someone else uses one.

[Alkhadias 548]

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

 I get that you don't use community maps and thats cool, you stuck to the cruddy map and relied on that small amount of info and had fun. However you couldnt stick with the small amount of info that imbues had to offer and decided to go ask a person who looked in WU code. Wouldn't it have been nicer if you didn't have to go into the code in order to figure stuff like that out? Bet it would be nicer if a player could load up a map in the game that functions as well as the community maps. Not even the community maps, at least the map dumps that show much more information.

 

Because, there's no clear information ingame that would answer me or anyone ingame. And mamp ingame is an information itself. Map and your compass are your informations. Some people can use it, others not. My question was stricte technical, and i couldn't find an answer for that within a game. 

 

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

So some people don't want to spend hours botanizing in order to be skilled enough for high quality woad. Does that mean offering woad planters is a bad idea and should not be suggested? A lot of wurmians +1 that one. I see your soccer analogy talk about only 1 person having an issue with soccer and suggesting to change the rules, but many people find that the map does not offer enough information. The only thing is that enough people can tolerate opening another window to look at the map, switching windows while on their journey.

Woad planters are fine, i have no issues with it. Because it's still immersive and makes sense. It makes a lot of sense for medieval fantasy game, where herbalism was very popular and practiced. So of course pretty much all of needed herbs were raising in planters on own yard. The same way as immersive is using own old, sometimes outdated map and your compass. I can't imagine medieval maps to be always clear, always up to date and accurate in 100%. In fact, starting already having a map in your inv (as part of your HUD in fact) is already a huuuuge bonus. Imo. maps should be expensive, hard to make.

 

 

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

The only harsh thing on older players is fighting uniques with limited amount of people, and the amount of time it takes massive structures. Issues with food, armor/weapons, tools, enchants, drinks, etc are not evident with decent players... 1 farmer can feed way more than the average village in wurm, and players who are alone can have infinite food that does not rot in food storage bins. So no harshness there. Winter is only harsh on your eyes and sometimes makes roads hard to see (oh and beehives don't work right?, but meh, just beehives). Starving to death is not even an option in the game, Rather its starving to boredom because of how long it takes to get stamina back. People can just drink the sea water and lake water without any worry of disease. Tools don't even break! The harshness I feel in the game is in the timers. Whenever I'm on a journey in a cart, If i get lost I just head in one direction to reach the shore, find a road, then go home from that road. Its possible I take routes that are much longer, but it would be much nicer to make it home quicker with something in game. The extra time spent on the road isn't really ever enjoyable. Its basically an advanced "loading screen" of me waiting to get home. Nothing harsh, just tedious. even more tedious when sailing against the wind trying to pick up a delivery.

It's harsh for new players, always been as long as I'm playing. For vets, Wurm isn't that hard, fact. But everyone been there, everyone expierienced it. And everyone had to do so. New players maybe get to that point if they try without complaining and whining about everything. Bad map, bad roads, takes so long, costs so much, hard to find, hard to make, too fast, too slow, too good, too bad.... I hate a great part of this game, but as long as it has it's logic and sense or immersion. I just hate it and live with it. 
 

6 hours ago, Yiraia said:

However you couldnt stick with the small amount of info that imbues had to offer and decided to go ask a person who looked in WU code.

Ah and i could stick with it. I just used my imbues, then i was looking for info. Like 60 potions that I was collecting for months, back then worth almost 1g. I used them on single hammer, without info. I took a risk. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Alkhadias

[Wilczan 2,048]

Please, no. That will be anothe discussion with thousands of quotes by Yiraia topic.

[Yiraia 427]

21 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

Please, no. That will be anothe discussion with thousands of quotes by Yiraia topic.

I really do need to find something better to do when i take breaks from studying lol.

 

4 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

Because, there's no clear information ingame that would answer me or anyone ingame. And mamp ingame is an information itself. Map and your compass are your informations. Some people can use it, others not. My question was stricte technical, and i couldn't find an answer for that within a game. 

You are correct in saying the information is not clear ingame, but you are still able to test it. Get a tool, try putting multiple imbues, Improve with that tool in both imbue's area and then compare it to a tool that is not imbued. You can figure it out, but you rather not go through the trouble of the game's lack of info and seek another source. This guy is asking for the source to be in wurm in terms of maps.

 

4 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

Woad planters are fine, i have no issues with it. Because it's still immersive and makes sense. It makes a lot of sense for medieval fantasy game, where herbalism was very popular and practiced. So of course pretty much all of needed herbs were raising in planters on own yard. The same way as immersive is using own old, sometimes outdated map and your compass. I can't imagine medieval maps to be always clear, always up to date and accurate in 100%. In fact, starting already having a map in your inv (as part of your HUD in fact) is already a huuuuge bonus. Imo. maps should be expensive, hard to make.

For a game where it takes forever to get around and find a decent place, I don't see an outdated map has a huuuuge bonus. First thing I did when i got on wurm was live near the starter town. Never used the map because It never helped me, just stuck around the lake release had and used that to find home. After some time i was getting bored because all the land around me was owned and using a guard tower would end up in the corpse of the monster on a random person's deed. The map was not able to show me a place where there are few people living so i searched the internet and there was the community map . Boom, once i saw that I immediately went to another lake west of the starter town and found a nice bit of land that was free for me to make a farm while being near water to drink and a mountain to mine into, even 2 guard towers free from deeds. I enjoyed my time there much more than the old place. If I had walked around without the map all i would see is endless amount of deeds and land that was unsuitable for a new player. Even if a better map is not immersive, it could still be fun to use. Other games I wouldnt mind using a map because I don't have to worry about what wurm has (Have to wait a long time and plenty of dead deeds).

 

5 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

It's harsh for new players, always been as long as I'm playing. For vets, Wurm isn't that hard, fact. But everyone been there, everyone expierienced it. And everyone had to do so. New players maybe get to that point if they try without complaining and whining about everything. Bad map, bad roads, takes so long, costs so much, hard to find, hard to make, too fast, too slow, too good, too bad.... I hate a great part of this game, but as long as it has it's logic and sense or immersion. I just hate it and live with it. 

Bad map = longer time walking around. bad roads = longer time walking around. takes so long =.... lol longer time doing stuff. hard to find = longer time walking around. hard to make = longer time sitting around. Also don't know of many people that hate something and decide to continue paying for it bi-monthly when there are other options than "test your patience"

 

PS: I don't hate the game, even though it often sounds like i do. I love sandboxes + the ability to feel like im playing something while studying.

[Reylaark 1,100]

18 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

I think the only thing to frustrate new players is your constant whining about how this game needs to be more like wow.

Those cat's eyes honestly would look more appropriate in WoW.  They're bright neon green and early 20th century technology.  I'm not even being facetious, they're just really not Wurm of old by any stretch.  Stop it, no, they're not.  lalalala I am not listening to you.

 

I would have, and probably did, -1 this suggestion 5 years ago.  When I consider what's happened since though, I don't see how we can continue to hold out given other changes, and particularly since it would be entirely optional.

 

I've always liked sailing in Wurm.  Others didn't.  There's a major shortcut to sailing in game now.  I don't even know how it works.  It's optional, I've never used it, and not been affected by the fact it exists. 

 

When I started, nights were dark and scary.  It was absolutely part of the experience.  Made Wurm, Wurm.  Now, we have blessed lamps that never go off. 

 

I have found my way home, on foot, without so much as a compass by using random accessible tokens as a compass.  Of course it can be done.  Doesn't mean everybody has to do it.

 

There should be a sense of equitability when looking at the whole of implemented changes and with that in mind, it's hard to say no to something like this after all the other changes that have happened. 

Sometimes it seems as though what determines which changes get implemented is a question of who's asking and that can be pretty disconcerting, even if incorrect.  It's perfectly fine to say this isn't the way Wurm ought to be, but then it needs to be consistent across the board.  Otherwise, it just really doesn't look good and can turn a lot of people off, imo. 

 

[Ayes 3,715]

The best in game player location system I have seen is on Sklotopolis WU where you just type in /gps and it gives your co-ords. Then you have to go to their online map and type them in to find your exact location. It would be a lot more work to setup for WO though since all the server player maintained maps are different formats. So I guess something like this would need to be setup on that in game M map somehow.

 

Probably all the coding work involved to set this up one way or the other is why it never has or will be done...

 

=Ayes=

[Steveleeb 1,067]

before we had the highway system i might have plus one'd this. however.
-1

[nicedreams 1,035]

Took me 10 minutes to walk to rift light after I parked my boat.  Took me an hour on a horse to figure out where my boat was so I could sail out.  Got mad for a while.  Still don't want an interactive map.  I enjoyed the experienced, but won't come back this way for a long time.  I'm not used to Cele.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Coming from someone who'd make campfires to make his way back home from the lake when wurm nights were DARK...... 

 

+1

 

Getting lost is hella fun, I do get the people who say that, I pride myself in navigating based on the mountains' shapes vs my compass.

 

It's not fun for everyone.  WU has LiveMap, some people live by it, I leave it closed, LiveMap is in no way ruining it for the likes of me.

 

Besides, all those self-aggrandized -1's "because everyone should play the game hardmode elite like me or not at all" .... Y'all cheered at teleporting ships around servers, hypocrites.

 

Yet another thread proving why new players are so hard to keep around.  Damn 12doctriners.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

-1. Wurm with GPS would ruin the explorarion aspect of the game. Using landmarks to try and orient yourself is a great plus. I dont use the community maps ever. In game map for me and map dumps is all I need.

[Beretel 60]

Ok, first:  current in-game map is really stinky.  Cannot click/scroll to zoom/focus map.  It is rarely updated.  It's a pain to use, hence the popularity of out-of-game maps.

 

So, fix that problem first:  Allow maps to craftable.  You can buy an improved map, with higher ql yielding a better experience.  If you're carrying multiple maps then you'd have a choice.  There could be many options for different kinds of maps, just look at the different maps the community has created.

 

Second: it is very noble to be able to find one's position based on a crummy map and your own view.  I acknowledge how awesome y'all are.  I also acknowledge that not everyone is that great at map reading.  It is a combination of skill and art, and some people simply cannot do it (I know several people who fit that category). 

 

Allow a "crude dioptra" to be used to make a temporary notation on the map.  It would get you close to your position, closer at better ql.

 

The crude dioptra would be fashioned with branches and cotton or wemp fiber.  Able to be made at beginner skill, used in combination with a compass (or a crude compass).

 

My two cents...

JS

[Maximillian 155]

-1 it's kind of fun to get lost and then sort your position out by landmarks and such.